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Post by PB on Dec 19, 2017 19:18:17 GMT
WWE post a 5 summary of Raw and Smackdown on Youtube each week. That's about all I can get through unless something is particularly exciting.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2017 19:22:50 GMT
To be fair I stopped watching after about an hour and a half or so and started watching X-Files, I was willing to catch Ronda's debut the next morning on Youtube, I found it that bad. Maybe they saved all the good stuff for the last half of the show and I missed it. It's really not fair to hate on a wrestling show jumping into it without any context but I just didn't like what I saw, so lifeless and mundane and dull, every spoken word into a live microphone all I heard was farting and shit noises coming out. I hear Smackdown is a lot better.
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Post by Emperor on Dec 19, 2017 21:12:19 GMT
Wait, Ronda actually debuted? The only info I get on Raw and Smackdown is the party threads, and I don't recall that being mentioned there.
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Post by Big Pete on Dec 20, 2017 7:40:24 GMT
Wait, Ronda actually debuted? The only info I get on Raw and Smackdown is the party threads, and I don't recall that being mentioned there. No, they just announced the women's Royal Rumble which she's set to be apart of. The plan right now is to have her face off against Asuka for the championship at Wrestlemania. As of late Asuka has been winning her matches with the arm-bar, an obvious at what's to come. Raw has been going through the motions for well over a decade now, but there's still plenty of good stuff if you know what you're looking for. Roman Reigns is running a weekly challenge gimmick and so far it's given us two quality matches against Jason Jordan & Cesaro. The 205Live stuff has been relatively strong of late and there's still a ton of talent on the roster.
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Post by Kilgore on Dec 20, 2017 19:10:07 GMT
I was flipping through the channels last week, and I stumbled onto a sports talk radio show that's simulcast onto TV for unknown reasons. It's cheap, I guess. Anyway, they were broadcasting from some bar and giving away tickets to a WWE show at MSG. The main event was Cena vs. Reigns and the host was trying to play to the live crowd. "We got any Cena fans in the house?" Booooooooooooooooooooo! Confused, he then asks, "Do we have any Reigns fans in the house?" Boooooooooooooooooooo! The ace of the last ten years vs. the ace of the next ten years, and neither is over to the majority of their audience, or whoever the fuck the people in this bar were. The WWE is an embarrassment. Not since Backlund have they been so stubborn.
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Post by Baker on Dec 21, 2017 1:25:41 GMT
It's a damn shame there is only one readily available Cheetah Master match on the entire internet. The internet is overrated and wrestling fans suck.
So, a Match Review? Well, I can't remember what the last match I watched was, but rest assured, it would have been better with more Cheetah Master.
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Post by Baker on Dec 22, 2017 15:57:08 GMT
Watched the last ever episode of non-classic AWA tv to get me in the mood for a fanfic project I've been toying around with. It was a pretty sad episode of wrestling television with only 3 quick squash matches and a lot of talking + hype videos. Johnnie Stewart beat Todd Becker. I was a Stewart fan. He was basically Chris Candido 1.0....but less annoying. Awful "Rock n Roll" Buck Zumhoffe then cuts a promo on his long time rival, Stewart. These guys are certainly no Benoit & Liger when it comes to light heavyweights. They had a lot of 'history' segments going into commercial breaks. "Mr. Electricity" Steve Regal (different guy than His Lordship), Hercules Cortez, the Fabulous Ones and....somebody else were featured. Scott "Flapjack" Norton squashed "Downtown" Ray Brown. Norton didn't have a great look yet- rather pudgy with his pants pulled up to his belly button. But he did lay in some stiff shots before winning with a Bearhug. This was the least bad of the 3 squashes. We get a Norton hype video set to an 80s pop/rock song that I surprisingly cannot place. He had better attire/look in the hype video. And I kind of want to see the Norton/Colonel Debeers match featured in some of these clips. Larry Legend squashes some Brian Pillman lookalike who turns out to be a young Jerry Lynn. Zbyszko wins with.... a simple suplex. Lame. This has to be among the last times a regular suplex finished a match. We get a long, actually good, video chronicling the AWA Championship history starting with Hennig & Lawler before focusing heavily on Zbyszko and mainly his feud with Mr. Saito. Destruction Crew promo. Wayne "The Train" Bloom does all the talking as usual, cutting "Mean" Mike Enos off whenever it's his turn to speak. Apparently Madonna has a crush on Mike Enos. Enos vs. Bloom would have been a big feud people actually would have been into had AWA survived into 1991 because it had been built so well over the previous two years. Show ended with a Gagne vs. Bockwinkle debate + clips of one of their matches. Nope. I checked out. I appreciate AWA's acknowledgement of their own history but they really go overboard with it. Big Pete talks about how WCW was always trying to recreate 1989. WWE is forever glorifying the Attitude Era. But AWA takes it a step further with their reluctance to ever move beyond 1980 and Gagne/Bockwinkle. Verdict- The last original episode of AWA tv featuring only 3 squash matches, irrelevant hype videos, and ending with a decade-old Gagne/Bockwinkle match is so perfect. It lives up to every stereotype people have about the AWA. This promotion definitely needs saving. Keep an eye on fanfic to see that salvation.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2017 10:52:06 GMT
Finally watched the 6 star Omega vs Okada match while on my treadmill last night. Whatever masterful storytelling was going on in this match flew completely over my head, I didn't see anything great about this match at all really, I don't even know that I would give it 4 stars. I've seen Okada before against Tanahashi, he's a great wrestler. This was the first time watching a Kenny Omega match, I got to say I'm really not that impressed.
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Post by Big Pete on Dec 27, 2017 11:07:12 GMT
There is no way Omega vs Okada was a 6 star match, a lot of people would even argue that Naito/Tanahashi was better. In fact, I thought Naito/Omega from the 2016 G-1 was better. Still, cut off the opening 20 minutes and focus on the awesome table spot and the smooth finishing stretch and it's a damn good match.
At that time, Omega was a career mid-carder who became the first international wrestler to win the G-1 since Rick Rude. This match was his opportunity to prove himself against the ace of NJPW. He put in a great effort, but couldn't hit the One Winged Angel and Okada eventually proved too good.
I think it was a *** 3/4 match. Well worth checking out and has some tremendous highs, but too many flaws bring it down where I can't consider it this timeless **** match.
Personally my favourite match of theirs was at the recent G-1 (Day 18). Shorter match, more drama and all the action you'd come to expect.
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Post by Emperor on Dec 27, 2017 14:09:16 GMT
At the time I gave Omega vs Okada ****1/2, the same rating as Tanahashi vs Naito. I thought it was a great match, with the best finishing sequence I have ever seen. I was sweating, on the edge of my seat, for the last 10-15 minutes. It's extremely rare that a wrestling match brings that level of emotion out of me. I've never had an experience quite like it. The match certainly has its flaws, but that perfect closing stretch compensates for most of the earlier drawbacks.
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Post by Kilgore on Dec 28, 2017 5:58:57 GMT
Bret Hart & Shawn Michaels vs. Jerry Lawler & Hakushi (July 26, 1995 - Kiel Center St. Louis, Mo.)That oddity popped up in my Youtube feed, so I was going to watch it. Unfortunately, there's not a whole lot to talk about. This was a dark match, and they didn't add commentary, which is cool. Just crowd noise, the wrestlers' grunts, and Jerry Lawler talking shit the entire time. Also not a single called spot is audible. Lawler came out to some great heat. He mouthed the words, "I hate you," to somebody in the crowd, and that made me chuckle more than you might think. Michaels is the IC champ, so beltless Bret comes out first for the Rocker Foundation. It's worth noting that Bret's pop is at least twice what Michaels' was. If it seems like I'm delaying talking about the action it's because there's not much to talk about. Lawler and Hakushi jump Hart and Michaels before the bell (or Pearl Harbor them for some Gorilla Monsoon harmless racism), and 95% of the match is just Bret taking a beating getting heat. This is no exaggeration. Michaels tags in for the first time at 15:11 (of the video, not the match), hits some offense (flying forearm, top rope elbow drop) on Kush and the King (which kind of sounds like a morning zoo radio show out of some hellhole like Jacksonville), and tags Bret back in at at 16:09. Hart gets a little revenge on the two, and Hakushi submits to the Sharpshooter 30 seconds later. That's it. The dream team don't make eye contact the entire time they're out there, and Bret looks legit annoyed, while Shawn looks like he don't give a fuck about anything. They give a half-hearted embrace at the end, and Bret says something to him that looks real, not some kayfabe banter, although my lip reading skills fail me completely to tell you what that was. Not surprisingly, Bret & Shawn are an awful tag team.
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Post by Emperor on Dec 28, 2017 22:48:42 GMT
G1 Climax 23 FinalTetsuya Naito vs Hiroshi TanahashiIn light of Naito's upcoming Tokyo Dome main event, I thought I'd go back and watch one of his older matches under his "Stardust" gimmick. This is Naito as an athletic, white meat babyface. Essentially a younger Tanahashi. I always assumed Naito changed his music when he debuted the Ingobernable character, but that is not true. He comes out to the same music I am familiar with. He dons a strange half-mask with a feather pattern. He comes out to the adoration of the fans. Tanahashi is not quite as well-received, which surprised me. However, once the entrance music dies down, a short burst of loud Tanahashi chants are heard. When the wrestler's names are announced, they both receive an equally good reaction. The contrast between the two wrestlers is noteworthy. Ace of the company and veteran Tanahashi is cool, and casually points to the crowd. Rising star, and relatively inexperienced Naito is serious and focused. They feel each other out with a nice grappling sequence. When they are separated, Tanahashi immediately does his signature air guitar taunt. This is met by Naito chants. Tanahashi doesn't take too kindly to this, going for gut punches instead of the expected lockup. Tanahashi whips Naito, but the latter fires back with an arm drag and a dropkick. He grounds Tanahashi with a headscissors, and denies him the flashy handstand escape. Naito charges to the corner, but Tanahashi catches him with an elbow, followed by a springboard crossbody. Tanahashi isn't taunting anymore. He sends Naito to the corner. Naito tries to float over, but Tanahashi stops, so that Naito lands in front of him facing away. Tanahashi chopblocks Naito's taped up knee. Naito's selling of this borders on comical, but it does signal that this is a huge turning point in the match. Tanahashi assault's Naito's bum knee with uncharacteristic aggression. He doesn't release a hold immediately on a rope break, and stomps on the knee around 20 times in a row. The crowd have a mixed reaction to this behaviour. It's clear they favour Naito, but they are also reluctant to outright boo the top babyface. At one point Tanahashi whips Naito, only for him to stumble and fall, unable to run on the injured leg. Tanahashi goes back to taunting, yelling in his face in the corner. Naito slaps Tanahashi, but the Ace slaps back multiple times, forcing Naito to collapse. Tanahashi walks to the other corner and goes for a stinger splash. Naito dodges and hits a tornado DDT. Naito hits a fiery comeback, running all over the place to hit his offense, despite the fact that five minutes earlier he couldn't run at all. He applies a Full Nelson with the legs. Tanahashi suffers for a while, but makes the ropes. Naito breaks immediately. Tanahashi regains control after catching a kick and dropkicking the hurt knee. Naito bails to the floor, but this is no escape: Tanahashi hits the High Fly Flow crossbody all the way from the top rope to the outside. Back in the ring, Naito is able to surprise Tanahashi with a schoolboy followed by a desperate knee strike to the head. Naito has no doubt taken more punishmnent, but both men are up to their feet at the same time. Naito's forearms are met by kicks to the knee. Still, Naito fights through the pain and violently slaps Tanahashi over and over to send him reeling in the ropes. Revenge from earlier. Tanahashi manage to hit a German Suplex and a Sling Blade, but Naito rolls out of the way of the High Fly Flow. Naito comes back with a string of offense, including a sort of elevated reverse DDT. This time it's Naito's turn to try his top rope finisher, the Stardust Press, but Tanahashi also rolls out of the way. The crowd is white hot. Tanahashi is up first. He grabs the downed Naito's leg, twists it twice, and applies a deep Texas Cloverleaf. Naito crawls to the ropes. When he's almost there, Tanahashi wrenches back so hard that he can no longer maintain the hold, and falls over. He tries for a second Sling Blade, but Naito leaps up and grabs a headlock takeover, transitioning neatly into a Koji Clutch. Tanahashi's time to suffer. He nearly passes out, but gets a foot on the ropes with his last gasp. So far nothing can separate the two finalists. Naito hits a Frankensteiner, but Tanahashi rolls through into a sunset flip position, then picks Naito up and drops him with a Styles Clash! He hits a High Fly Flow to the back. Naito rolls, exposing his chest. Tanahshi flies again, but Naito gets his knees up! Crowd is still white hot! Both men get up at the same time, and charge from opposite corners. Tanahashi lands a dropkick to the knee. He runs the ropes for the Sling Blade, but Naito pops up and hits his own! Naito lands a Dragon Suplex for a hot near fall. He hits the elevated reverse DDT again! Crowd and commentators are going insane. Naito climbs to the top. Stardust Press...connects! One! Two! Three! Naito wins the tournament! This was Naito's star making moment, and it was a huge success. Tanahashi selflessly did everything he could to pass the torch. He wrestled a more heelish style to ensure Naito was the crowd favourite. He hit all his best shots, but Naito took them all and got the better of the Ace. The match wasn't perfect - Naito's leg selling was very inconsistent, and the Texas Cloverleaf/Koji Clutch sequence killed the flow late in the match - but it was an excellent tournament final epic that achieved everything it set out to do. Unfortunately, in the few short months from here to the Tokyo Dome of the following year, Naito would lose all of his crowd support and turn into a joke. Comparable to Rocky Maivia. This was punctuated by Naito/Okada being replaced by Tanahashi/Nakamura as the main event of Wrestle Kingdom by a fan vote. He also lost to Okada. A broken Naito plodded through the rest of 2014, before going on excursion, and coming back in 2015 as a changed man. G1 Climax 25In his first appearance in this tournament, shortly after his return from a stint in Mexico, Naito walked down to the ring in unfamiliar attire. He donned a black suit, a shiny silver skull mask, and a cloth wrapped around his head. He took a minute or two to take off his suit, keeping his opponent Bad Luck Fale waiting. His attitude was strange: alternating between frenzied aggression and cool indifference in a flash. He outwardly didn't care about authority (often attacking referees), winning matches, and even sometimes smiled after taking a beating. He defeated Fale with an atomic drop/rollup combo, and would go on to beat one of the group favourites in Tanahashi. A few days later, he battled the other group favourite. Tetsuya Naito vs AJ StylesAs the tournament progressed, Naito took longer and longer to take off his suit after his entrance, irritating his opponents. It was always interesting to see how they would react. Styles' reaction is one of the best, and has been documented on YouTube. Styles is flanked by Cody Hall, which prompted me to research what became to Scott Hall's son. Apparently he was quietly let go after being injured, and started working in NOAH from March 2017. I'm sure zero of you readers wanted to know that. Styles is able to stay on top in the early goings despite Naito's stalling and unpredictable bursts of aggression. It starts to go wrong when he tries to suplex Naito to the outside, which is countered into a neckbreaker on the apron. Naito taunts AJ while attacking his neck. Styles eventually rallies back with a smooth strike combination, much to the delight of the pro-gaijin crowd. Styles busts out a modified Widowmaker in his comeback, something I don't remember seeing him do before. Naito may be apathetic to winning, but he doesn't want to be hit by a Styles Clash. So he counters Styles' finisher and gets a flurry of offense of his own. They trade some big moves. Styles almost counters a Frankensteiner into a Styles Clash, but Naito desperately scrambles free. They go back and forth some more. Naito hits the atomic drop/rollup combo he used to defeat Fale, but Styles kicks out. Styles hits a Pele kick. Naito counters Bloody Sunday into his recently debuted finisher, Destino, to pick up a minor upset. Red shoes goes to raise Naito's hand, but Naito kicks him in the gut and body slams him :lol: Above average G1 round robin match, but not a match that will stand the test of time. Still, Naito's run in G1 25 is perhaps my favourite G1 run out of the few I have seen. A whole new gimmick and personality debuting in a round robin tournament. Every one of his matches was must-watch.
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Post by Kilgore on Dec 29, 2017 6:43:18 GMT
I'm getting recommended WWF tryout matches now, so that's what I'm watching. YouTube gets me. Tazmaniac vs. Scott Taylor (1993)I think Baker might have reviewed this. The Tazmaniac is underrated because he looks so goddamn silly, but his moveset and execution really is no different than the much cooler Taz two years later. Taz hits a T-Bone, a release Northern Lights, and the suplex that wins the match ... A release overhead. The T-Bone was the coolest of the batch because the T-Bone is usually the coolest of the batch. Side note, this was a Wrestling Challenge taping in Maine, and I was checking out the results, and it was very ECW heavy. First off Bam Bam Bigelow squashed Jason Knight (Double ECW!). Mr. Hughes beat Kamala (Double ECW! Never forget that brief Kamala ECW run in 1998). The Steiner Brothers squashed a young Justin Credible (As PJ Walker teaming with Duane Gill). Raven was in the building as Adam Bomb squashed a couple of different people, and Johnny Polo cut promos about how awesome this was. Even Tony Devito makes an appearance (Teaming with Mike Bell) as a jobber to a pre-Men on Mission called The Harlem Knights, which is a way cooler name. Earthquake vs. Paul Roma
Earthquake comes out like a lumberjack named Earthquake Evans, brought to the ring by the Doctor of Style Slick. I like the idea of Slick scouting the Yukon looking for new talent. Earthquake didn't do much to impress. He wasn't yet comfortable running the WWF ropes, which is only noticeable because of how godly he would become at that. They must have loved Quake's size, and all he had to do was not mess up too bad, which he didn't. Paul Roma actually had the most impressive spot of the match with a dropkick that reached a ridiculous height. Look at that! AJ Styles vs. Rick Michaels Somebody on YouTube says Rick Michaels is AJ Styles teacher. I have no idea if this is true. Their timing is way off, so if it was, they must have been really nervous, which is understandable. Styles runs the ropes about as shitty as anybody ever has. I could see that alone disqualifying him to WWF brass, no matter what other cool shit he could pull off. He does a Styles Clash, which is hilariously obscured as whoever was taping this from a live satellite feed decided to start adjusting his dish settings. Styles then hits an okay Shooting Star Press. It was crooked Kidman style. I think somebody chanted ECW when Styles came out, which would make that man very confused. Crush vs. Barry Horowitz (Fresno, California, 1989)Crush using his wimpy real name and Portland as his hometown in this one looking like he's in year seven of a dirty bulk with no intentions of ever cutting. Since terrible rope running was mentioned in like every other match, I should mention that Crush runs the rope like a champ. Horowitz stalls on the outside which elicits a, "Aw, come on you pussy!" from an angry man in the crowd. Then it becomes crowd teams up against Barry night as somebody then yells, "Barry, you're the worst!" Then somebody else yells, "Barry, get a real job!" Fresno's not fucking around, and more matches should be sans commentary. Just watching all the basics Barry Horowitz gets right, it's kind of amazing what warranted a job guy in those days. Barry was better than most guys getting tryouts to not be jobbers. Anyway, Crush wins with a Tombstone! In 1989. Samoa Joe vs. Essa RiosThis is the first match that had commentary, so this might not be an actual tryout, and just Joe working as a jobber. Joe looking like a fat Eminem with that classic bleach blonde 2001 look. Joe mostly sells for Rios, who eventually wins with a great moonsault. I forgot the distance Rios used to get with his moonsault. Joe was in the center of that huge WWF ring and Rios hit him perfectly with the moonsault.
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Post by Emperor on Dec 29, 2017 16:05:47 GMT
Wrestle Kingdom 11 IWGP Heavyweight Championship Kazuchida Okada (c) vs Kenny OmegaThis is my second watching of the Tokyo Dome main event that (in)famously received 6 stars from Dave Meltzer. When I watched it the first time, I loved it, but didn't deem it even a 5 star match. After watching it again, I still don't think it's a perfect or better-than-perfect match, but my viewing experience was somewhat different. I watched it the first time after several hours of NJPW-style wrestling. Both entrances, Omega's especially, were a real treat, but didn't provide sufficient cool down time. I found the first half of the match dull and plodding, but the conclusion was super hot, particularly not knowing who the winnerwas. On second viewing, the first half of the match was entertaining. First they did some character work. Omega took shortcuts at the start of the match, repeatedly pulling Okada's hair to gain an unfair advantage. Okada did his usual cocky champion routine, but it was important to show this for the many first-time viewers. The problem was, this character work wasn't enforced beyond the opening minutes. Omega stopped playing dirty, and over time proved to be the superior athlete with the more spectacular moveset, nullifying any attempted heat-getting. The match was well-paced. The action slowly picked up in violence, the occasional high spot keeping the crowd engaged between slower periods. However, the action itself only put on a pretense of substance. Omega attacks Okada's neck and back - fine. Okada attacks Omega's neck - also fine. But this didn't really go anywhere. They were just filling time. The last 20 minutes could have happened without all that limb work and the end result would have been the same. The second half of the match was almost as thrilling to watch as it was the first time. Both guys worked their asses off, performing some crazy offense and taking insane bumps. The crowd was hot for absolutely everything, providing an atmosphere that was essential to the match's success and an enhanced viewing experience. Omega kicking out of the first Rainmaker was a huge moment. I saw it coming, but the audible shock of the audience still gave me chills. It became a real war at the end, with both guys using their last reserves to throw a desperate offensive move, before collapsing in exhaustion. Omega's knee strikes and Okada's dropkicks are two of the best strikes in the business, made even better by the way they are bumped and sold in this match. When all was said and done, Okada was able to avoid the One Winged Angel, and hit the Rainmaker for a third time to win the match. Calling this an all style no substance match is a bit harsh, but it's certainly mostly style. The style was so good, however, that the lack of substance can be mostly forgiven. That said, I'm a little surprised by shinobimusashi's reaction. I thought he'd love the action, even if his observation about the lack of storytelling is correct.
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Post by Baker on Dec 31, 2017 23:12:21 GMT
Haven't even had time to come to PW for more than a few seconds at once over the past week or so, let alone watch any matches of late. That'll likely change once 2018 arrives. Kilgore and I must have the same Youtube recommendations because Earthquake Evans vs. Paul Roma popped up for me a few days before Kilgore wrote about it. 'Quake was just kind of there in that one. Did not impress. Somebody in the Pet Peeves thread just mentioned seeing big guys get irish whipped as one of theirs, and I was thinking the same thing when Roma irish whipped 'Quake a time or two. The Doctor of Style scouting wrestlers in the Yukon definitely should have been more of a thing though. Also watched "Bad Look" Brian Adams vs. Horowitz the same day I watched the 'Quake match. I popped for the Tombstone finish. It was a good one, too! Might Crush have made a better Underfaker than Brian Lee? It's entirely possible. Rick Michaels is a name that used to pop a lot as a good indie worker right before the big indie boom. He teamed with future TNA low carder David Young in their home promotion of NWA Wildside. AJ Styles used to always put Young (who my friend Bryan used to call "The Pint Sized Hoss") over in shoot interviews as one of the most underutilized guys on the scene. Michaels actually got a job designing outfits, of all things, for WWE in the mid 2000s.
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Post by 🤯 on Jan 1, 2018 22:08:50 GMT
I'm trying something, inspired by the Low Ki/Daniel Bryan series, where I'm watching matches pitting the same wrestlers against each other spaced out over a few years, back to back, to see if I can pick up on any differences or otherwise determine how their in-ring game has evolved/devolved.
Up first are Sean Waltman and Jeff Hardy.
Just finished the first match in this series (and possibly their first-ever match?) from the 6/25/94 Superstars.
Waltman is 1-2-3 Kid here, and pretty over as a plucky underdog face with fast feet and fun moves. Jeff is playing a heel despite having more of a literal baby face. Seriously... For as young as Kid looks, Jeff looks to be about half his age. Jeff also looks like he certainly isn't done growing yet. Either that or the different attire and long hair four years later makes him look at least a little bigger. Here he's a puny runt (but still seemingly twice the size of Ki or DB). Jeff is also rocking an awesomely bad haircut to boot.
For an enhancement talent match, this was pretty decent, I thought. Jeff actually looked more smooth here than he would in his late 90s-early 2000s run. He also got to hit (or rather perform but miss) a proto Whisper in the Wind, which set up a surprising submission finish. Some figure-four leglock into a reverse inverted dragon sleeper? Very Low Ki/DB-esque, actually. I was/am so used to Kid being the underdog who scored fluky upsets that I don't recall him having an actual finisher, much less an intense submission hold like this, in his repertoire. It's also weird to see Kid be the physically larger guy in the ring. Anyway, all in all, it was a short, fun, and interesting 5 minutes supported by some fun banter between Gorilla and King on commentary.
Next up, we flash forward to sometime in late '99, I assume. The video doesn't include a date in the description or title, and I don't feel like trolling the comments section or doing research to confirm. Terri comes out with the Hardy Boyz, so I'm assuming this is post-No Mercy '99 but pre-Lita in mid-2000. Anyway...
So Jeff has evolved into a somewhat bigger looking Hardy Boys here, and Waltman is in the midst of his X-Pac run. Waltman is somehow looking even greasier than he did in the last match, but considering it's the Attitude Era and he's a central part of Degeneration X, it's kinda no surprise.
You know it's 1999 because Pac is rocking a bucket hat like it's still cool to do, and he's also repping whatever energy drink it was that sponsored his escapades back in the day. You know it's the Attitude Era because King is still on commentary but his game has devolved into just babbling about puppies.
You also know it's the Attitude Era because there is no real heel or face here. It'll kinda gray. Pac is technically the heel by how he acts and wrestlers and the fact that he cost the Hardy Boyz the tag titles recently. But he gets a huge pop for his entrance, and a huge pop for the Bronco Buster. Meanwhile, Jeff is the face by how he acts and wrestles, but Terri and Matt interfere to fuck over a backup-less Pac. Kinda heelish, right?
The bell-to-bell match is better than their last encounter, I'd say. The only spot that seemed to carry through was Pac's quick snap running leg drop. I thought Jeff might hit the real Whisper in the Wind, but it turned out to just be a moonsault onto his feet to evade Pac. All in all, it was fun and flowing action that captured the good and the bad of the times.
Wrestlers were over with the fans, but the fans had been conditioned to not give a shit about the in-ring stuff sans high spots/finishers. This match involved outside interference and run-ins (by the New Age Outlaws), and while it worked, I'm sure it was like one of eight matches on the night that featured such clusterfuck booking. At least in this instance it resulted in an actual pinfall. Also, the double-team finish which saw Billy Gunn gorilla press drop Jeff into an X-Factor was admittedly cool. Seriously though like almost cool enough to make me wish for a long, sustained Gunn/Pac tag team.
And then there's the commentary. While JR and King are an all-time great pairing, they do have their downsides too. And those downsides were on display here. Everything was focused on puppies and Vince McMahon being in jail. And more puppies. Oh well... All eras can't be as great as the New Generation era.
I'll have to come back for the final match in this series. Not sure if it's dated, but if I had to guess looks like it might be from 2001. Not sure if pre, during, or post Invasion. Might even be 2002 for all I know. To be continued...
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Post by Strobe on Jan 3, 2018 18:29:20 GMT
I often feel like this can be a sort of catch-all thread at times, so I'll ask this here.
Did I ever make a "flaws in great matches" thread before the old forum went down? I feel like I may have just before it all ended, but can't remember. I should probably just do it again anyway, even if I did.
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Post by Emperor on Jan 3, 2018 19:14:40 GMT
I recall that thread. But make it again, anyway.
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Post by Baker on Jan 5, 2018 2:44:10 GMT
I watched two matches today. Neither of these was something I intended to watch as of yesterday but sometimes things happen.
Spanky vs. Shooter Schultz- TWA 12/99?
TWA was Shawn Michaels' promotion. It was comprised of his students, a few longtime friends like Paul "Venom" Diamond and Rudy Boy Gonzalez, plus the occasional WWF cameo. The oddest thing about TWA was Shawn's lone match between Wrestlemania 14-Summerslam 2002 took place in his tiny little promotion. I'm sure WWF was just thrilled about that :lol: For some unknown reason I was thinking about Shooter Schultz the other day and how I had never seen a match of his. A quick search revealed this one. I have also never seen a Spanky match from this early in his career. So let's get to it.
Spanky is the TWA TV champ. Commentary is provided by some guy named Kevin Vargas and Venom aka: Paul Diamond, Kato of the Orient Express, and the 2nd Max Moon. Vargas screws up a lot. Miscalling moves and that sort of thing. Venom continually corrects him in a condescending manner.
I get a kick out of the big TEXAS DISCOUNT FURNITURE writing on the ring. Regionalism needs to make a comeback in indie wrestling.
Spanky was never big but he is downright tiny here. Can't weigh much more than 130. He has the build, high school kid look, and big bumping style of Jack Evans. His hair is short, which is weird, and he's wearing normal pants.
Shooter Schultz looks and wrestles like a baby Brock Lesnar- lots of suplexes and hard clotheslines.
This wouldn't have looked out of place on the undercard of an early ROH show. Picture something like Brent Albright (even if he came later) vs. a member of Special K....or just imagine a more vulnerable Lesnar vs. Spike Dudley if that first comparison is a little too obscure. Young Spanky's willingness to die would have made him a very fun guy to wrestle. Schultz tosses him around with a variety of cool suplexes and levels him with some very hard clotheslines- still a rarity in 99-00 US wrestling. The Spankster eventually comes back by countering something into a diamond cutter. Then we get a very bad botch when Spanky goes up top and just falls down. More stuff happens and Spanky eventually hits a nice top rope splash for the 1-2-INTERFERENCE.
Rudy Boy Gonzalez attacks Spanky. Rudy Boy as a heel. and even Spanky as a face, seems like odd casting to me. Eventually a big guy who may or may not be Biohazard runs out on RBG's behalf. He's apparently Rudy's henchman. He locks Spanky in a very bad hold. Like some sort of facelock. I mean this thing didn't look like it would have hurt at all. They eventually Superbomb Spanky through an unforgiving table. Yeah, it broke, but it didn't break easily. Some other guy finally runs out for the save. Spanky needs better friends.
Verdict- Not a bad way to kill a few minutes. Spanky bumped hard and Schultz had some cool offense. Spanky's look improved big time over the next few years. Schultz could have had a future if he stuck around and trimmed the baby fat. Picture a Whitmer/Albright type.
*That was longer than expected. Jericho/Omega will be up either later tonight or tomorrow.
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Post by Baker on Jan 5, 2018 4:50:32 GMT
Kenny Omega vs. Chris Jericho- NJPW WrestleKingdom 12 1/4/18
The hype got to me. I think it's cool that Jericho, who everybody had down as a WWE lifer, did this match in the first place. Especially after allegedly rejecting multiple TNA offers over the years.
We get a nice pre-match hype video covering the history of the two men and chronicling their feud. I liked the clip of young 90s Jericho competing in New Japan.
This was a good Attitude Era main event. And I mean that as a compliment.
For all the chatter about how Jericho was supposedly past it (something I know nothing about as the last Jericho matches I saw were a pair of fine little bouts that took place in 2013 or '14), and would have to be carried by Omega, I thought it was Jericho who clearly carried the match. Omega was just a warm body. Jericho could have had this same exact match with any competent athletic dude. His heeling gave the match some flair. Plus I've always said Omega needed an editor. He clearly has athleticism and a lot of cool ideas. The problem is he has to cram a million things into every match when merely a thousand things would work much better. Old man Jericho was the editor Omega so desperately needs. Either that or Pat Patterson is secretly working for NJPW because this seemed like a match Patterson would have put together.
The Highlights
It went a whopping 34 minutes and I didn't get bored. That alone makes it a success. The only real downtime came a few minutes in when they were mucking about on the floor when a Jericho dodge caused Omega to crash through a table on a dive.
Jericho in general with his heeling. Trash talking like a champ, punching refs and young boys, cleverly refusing to break a multitude of Boston Crabs when Omega reached the ropes because it's a No DQ match....just a great performance. Jericho going all middle aged and crazy like previous greats such as Funk, Flair & Mr. Backlund is definitely a good thing and shows what a student of the game he is. My favorite Jericho heel moment in this one has to be when he trash talked Masa Chono, who was sitting at ringside.
I like how the early furniture rearranging paid off much later on. Typically furniture is rearranged. Then somebody soon goes through it. This time furniture was rearranged. Then stuff happened. And more stuff happened. And finally 10 or 15 minutes later when it was all but forgotten about BAM! Omega's head crashes through a chair propped up in the corner. Or WHAM! Jericho takes a (pretty wimpy) bump through a propped up table on the floor.
The pop for Jericho's Lionsault and Jericho's subsequent big, goofy grin. You could tell he was having the time of his life.
BLOOD~!
Best Spots
Jericho interrupting an Omega springboard with a springboard dropkick of his own.
Jericho countering the One Winged Angel into a Boston Crab. The English commentary team wisely put Jericho over as a great counter wrestler which is something I first took note of during his first 2008 PPV match with Michaels, which probably made me years-late to that particular party.
Jericho grabbing the ropes at 2.9 after the first One Winged Angel. Waiting til just the last millisecond had me buying it as the finish in spite of the obvious 'rope break' ring position.
Negatives
Move spam. I guess I'm just gonna have to get used to the fact that every modern "classic" has a million repeated moves. Even the WWE 4 Way Hossfest from Summerslam had Braun hitting half a dozen British Bulldog powerslams. This time it was Omega's V Trigger* and Jericho constantly applying the Walls. If I ran a promotion one of my very first mandates would be NO REPEATING MOVES.
*After years of reading about this V Trigger being one of Omega's big moves I built it up as this cool (albeit contrived) thing in my head. Well, turns out it's just another knee strike. And not even a fancy one. Nope. Just a run of the mill knee strike. Big deal. You get a dozen of those in every single ROH undercard match.
What was the deal with Omega's spray can? Is that A Thing of his like how The Model had Arrogance? This bit of goofiness was thankfully the only "Kenny Omega" moment of this Kenny Omega match.
Jericho didn't take Omega's Dragon Suplexes as well as a younger guy would have. But, again, if that's Jericho's only "old man" moment, as it was, it's a minor quibble.
Other
This part is awfully pedantic but I saw some people elsewhere complaining about how the treatment of rope breaks changed throughout the match. I don't really agree with this criticism. Here's why.....
Jericho (awesomely) refused to break the Walls a few times when Omega reached the ropes because it was a No DQ match. Cool. I think he only gave Omega one clean rope break, and that came very late in the match when it could easily be excused away as kayfabe tiredness/instincts taking over.
Another big complaint was the ref stopping his count when one of the men would grab the ropes while in a pinning predicament. Well, duh. I think it's always been this way outside of maybe Falls Count Anywhere matches. This was a No DQ match. Rope grabs on pins don't constitute a DQ. They just stop the count. Therefore I don't have a problem with this.
Doing a countout tease early on was dumb for multiple reasons. I'll grant the critics that much. First of all, they were outside the ring for like 5 minutes. So how in the hell is the ref (the unfortunately named Red Shoes) only on 19 even if he was out for a little while after being punched by Jericho? This shouldn't have been done at all since No Countout should go hand in hand with a No DQ stip. And Red Shoes really should be fired if it takes him 5 f'n minutes to count to 19. No counting skillz= No credibility since counting is one of the most important jobs a referee has.
Verdict- Above average Attitude Era/Ruthless Aggression PPV main event.
------
I watched this with English commentary provided by Kevin Kelly & Don "Jackyl" Callis. They were fine. Of course, I rarely have strong opinions one way or the other when it comes to wrestling commentary. Let's talk about Kevin Kelly for a minute....
He was immediately dismissed as one of those "non-wrestling" Cole/Pettengill-types when he debuted in 1996 WWF (at Summerslam, I think it was). Meaning Vince hired him from outside of wrestling for....aesthetic purposes? Vince Reasons. But here we are over two decades later and ol' Hermie is still around. Not only that, but he's calling matches for the current Smarks Choice promotion. Good for him, I guess.
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Post by Emperor on Jan 5, 2018 8:57:46 GMT
The treatment of the rope breaks did appear contradictory on the surface, but with a bit of thought, one realises it makes sense. Someone asked an interesting question on reddit: Omega grabs the ropes, Jericho doesn't break the Walls of Jericho, Omega taps. What happens? I guess it wouldn't count as a submission, but then how would the match continue?
The only thing I didn't like about the match was Omega taking the time to spray himself after blinding Jericho. It got a great reaction, with the crowd laughing, so I wasn't too bothered, but it's not a spot appropriate for a personal and violent grudge match.
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Post by Baker on Jan 5, 2018 18:55:53 GMT
Hulk Hogan vs. Dino Bravo- Superstars 3/10/90
Since both of these guys came up in my Royal Rumble thread I decided to watch a match of theirs.
But before we get to that let's talk about Dino Bravo for a few minutes. Of course I was a thee Dino Bravo fan. Look, there was a simple formula for becoming a Baker Guy from, say, 1987-1995.
1. Be a heel. 90% of the wrestlers I liked during this period were heels. The few faces I supported (Taker, 89 & 93 Flair, 88-89 Midnight Express) were just heels I stuck with during their face turns. Dino Bravo was a heel.
2. But not TOO heelish. Rule #1 of being a heel: Heels can do anything to a babyface but must never, ever mess with other heels. Heels who broke The Heel Code were worse than all but the most nauseating of babyfaces. Fortunately the only two guys to fit into this category were those good fer nuthin' scoundrels Bad News Brown & Stone Cold Steve Austin. My man Dino Bravo would never think about jumping a Mr. Perfect or Million Dollar Man.
3. Have a catchy theme. La Marseillaise fits the bill.
4. Have a cool angle. Bravo had at least two- setting the bench press record and introducing Earthquake during a push up contest to squash Warrior.
5. Have a cool manager. OK, so that Whipplemanesque turd Frenchy Martin was a colossal waste of space. But Dino, to his credit, knew this, and soon upgraded to the greatest of all WWF managers in "The Mouth of the South" Jimmy Hart. Now, now I know what you Weaselites are thinking. Look, I've got nothing against "The Brain." It's just that my man Jimmy Hart was better. Heenan talked a good game. Then his men would go out and lose to Hogan time and time again. Heenan was all bark and no bite. Meanwhile, Jimmy Hart is backing up his boasting by leading his men to title after title. Jimmy Hart > Bobby Heenan.
6. Feud with turds. Bravo once again excels in a category. Dino feuded with Hogan, Warrior & Duggan. Aka: The Holy Trinity of WWF Suck*
*I suppose you could make a good case for Bushwhackers, Beefcake, Piper or Dusty Rhodes in Duggan's spot but I'm still sticking with Crapsaw.
So Dino checks off all 6 boxes. It's no wonder I dug the guy. By all accounts he sucked. I don't really deny this. But I liked the dude. Plus, like seemingly all 80s & 90s Quebec wrestlers, he had a certain charming goofball charisma. I always got a kick out of the way he'd cheer, or run laps around the ring for the simplest of reasons, like winning a test of strength. Plus he had a good elbow drop. His finisher did suck though. I'll grant you that.
And his "World's Strongest Man" gimmick worked more on an ironic level than as a real thing. But that only made it better! Bravo was an odd choice for that gimmick if you take it as a serious, straight thing. He was thick, but kind of short, and not exactly jacked by the standards of the day. Something like the 20th most intimidating looking guy in the company, if that. Nor did he do many traditional 'strong man' moves or feats of strength. I'm not talking about Cena, Brock, Cesaro-type stuff. But even among his peers he didn't do the press slams, or big guy slamming, of a Hogan or Warrior. But his whole Strong Man thing was tremendous as a bullshit heel gimmick.
Plus his name is Dino Bravo! How could anyone boo a guy called Dino Bravo?!? That's such a happy name. He sounds like a lovable children's show host. At the very least, the sort of chap who would come to the Neighborhood to hang out with Mr. Rogers once a month.
Anyway, the match.....
Hogan is still super over as he makes a rare appearance on the weekend syndicated shows. Jesse & Vince are on commentary. Hype for Wrestlemania VI and the Ultimate Challenge is in full swing. Jimmy Hart & Earthquake are in Bravo's corner.
This one will get the play by play treatment. Dino wins a test of strength! He goes into one of his patented celebrations. Who can blame him? The Hulkster wins a second test of strength. Hogan with punches and chops in the corners. Elbow smash. Jimmy Hart trips Hogan. Hogan turns around to assault a 130 pound man with glasses. But our hero rescues his manager! Dino Bravo: What a guy! Bravo works over Hulk with some wimpy clubbering before hitting his Side Suplex* finisher. Hogan predictably Hulks Up. Can't really complain too much. It's not like Bravo worked him over for an extended amount of time. Punches. Big boot. Hogan punches Hart because he's a jerk. Big leg drop. 1-2-3.
But Earthquake attacks! He hits two of his GOAT contender elbow drops and the Earthquake Splash.....connects! Warrior runs out late for the save. Perhaps Warrior is more clever than we give him credit for? Warrior runs around the ring like the hyperactive doofus he is. A groggy Hogan wanders into his path. Warrior sets up a clothesline....but halts before hitting the Hulkster. Then he sprints to the back like a deranged maniac, which he also is.
Verdict- A rushed Hogan formula match. So basically a nothing match. More of an angle than a match, really. I only vaguely remembered this. One of the commenters said Hogan's loss to Warrior was blamed on 'Quake's attack. Again, don't remember that, but cool if true as it adds another layer to the big Hogan/Quake feud later in the year.
I recently read a good take on some other forum about how most of Hogan's big WWF rivals fall into one of two categories- the big guys (Andre, Studd, Bundy, Quake, etc.) and the bumpers (Dibiase, Savage, Race, Perfect, etc.). Bravo is neither, so I guess it would make sense that he'd have a nothing match with the Hulkster.
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Post by 🤯 on Jan 9, 2018 3:52:34 GMT
I'm trying something, inspired by the Low Ki/Daniel Bryan series, where I'm watching matches pitting the same wrestlers against each other spaced out over a few years, back to back, to see if I can pick up on any differences or otherwise determine how their in-ring game has evolved/devolved. Up first are Sean Waltman and Jeff Hardy. Just finished the first match in this series (and possibly their first-ever match?) from the 6/25/94 Superstars. Waltman is 1-2-3 Kid here, and pretty over as a plucky underdog face with fast feet and fun moves. Jeff is playing a heel despite having more of a literal baby face. Seriously... For as young as Kid looks, Jeff looks to be about half his age. Jeff also looks like he certainly isn't done growing yet. Either that or the different attire and long hair four years later makes him look at least a little bigger. Here he's a puny runt (but still seemingly twice the size of Ki or DB). Jeff is also rocking an awesomely bad haircut to boot. For an enhancement talent match, this was pretty decent, I thought. Jeff actually looked more smooth here than he would in his late 90s-early 2000s run. He also got to hit (or rather perform but miss) a proto Whisper in the Wind, which set up a surprising submission finish. Some figure-four leglock into a reverse inverted dragon sleeper? Very Low Ki/DB-esque, actually. I was/am so used to Kid being the underdog who scored fluky upsets that I don't recall him having an actual finisher, much less an intense submission hold like this, in his repertoire. It's also weird to see Kid be the physically larger guy in the ring. Anyway, all in all, it was a short, fun, and interesting 5 minutes supported by some fun banter between Gorilla and King on commentary. Next up, we flash forward to sometime in late '99, I assume. The video doesn't include a date in the description or title, and I don't feel like trolling the comments section or doing research to confirm. Terri comes out with the Hardy Boyz, so I'm assuming this is post-No Mercy '99 but pre-Lita in mid-2000. Anyway... So Jeff has evolved into a somewhat bigger looking Hardy Boys here, and Waltman is in the midst of his X-Pac run. Waltman is somehow looking even greasier than he did in the last match, but considering it's the Attitude Era and he's a central part of Degeneration X, it's kinda no surprise. You know it's 1999 because Pac is rocking a bucket hat like it's still cool to do, and he's also repping whatever energy drink it was that sponsored his escapades back in the day. You know it's the Attitude Era because King is still on commentary but his game has devolved into just babbling about puppies. You also know it's the Attitude Era because there is no real heel or face here. It'll kinda gray. Pac is technically the heel by how he acts and wrestlers and the fact that he cost the Hardy Boyz the tag titles recently. But he gets a huge pop for his entrance, and a huge pop for the Bronco Buster. Meanwhile, Jeff is the face by how he acts and wrestles, but Terri and Matt interfere to fuck over a backup-less Pac. Kinda heelish, right? The bell-to-bell match is better than their last encounter, I'd say. The only spot that seemed to carry through was Pac's quick snap running leg drop. I thought Jeff might hit the real Whisper in the Wind, but it turned out to just be a moonsault onto his feet to evade Pac. All in all, it was fun and flowing action that captured the good and the bad of the times. Wrestlers were over with the fans, but the fans had been conditioned to not give a shit about the in-ring stuff sans high spots/finishers. This match involved outside interference and run-ins (by the New Age Outlaws), and while it worked, I'm sure it was like one of eight matches on the night that featured such clusterfuck booking. At least in this instance it resulted in an actual pinfall. Also, the double-team finish which saw Billy Gunn gorilla press drop Jeff into an X-Factor was admittedly cool. Seriously though like almost cool enough to make me wish for a long, sustained Gunn/Pac tag team. And then there's the commentary. While JR and King are an all-time great pairing, they do have their downsides too. And those downsides were on display here. Everything was focused on puppies and Vince McMahon being in jail. And more puppies. Oh well... All eras can't be as great as the New Generation era. I'll have to come back for the final match in this series. Not sure if it's dated, but if I had to guess looks like it might be from 2001. Not sure if pre, during, or post Invasion. Might even be 2002 for all I know. To be continued... Finally got a chance to finish this. The third and last match for me in this Jeff Hardy/Sean Waltman series is their Light Heavyweight Title rematch from the 6/25/01 RAW. Quick comments on the match itself first. You can tell these guys are familiar enough with each other by this point by how it shows in their ring work. It seems to flow even better than the last match. This match gets bonus points for being for a title, featuring the craziest high spots of the three matches in this series, a clean title change finish, and Jeff having finally really developed and honed his own signature spots. Honestly, considering the time period, I was really expecting interference from either X-Pac's X-Factor cronies or some invading WCW talent. Really pleasantly surprised by how straight and clean this was played. It came across so well to me that I'm convinced of two things. First, I bet Jeff and Sean could've worked a really entertaining match if given 10-12 minutes. Not sure how long their KOTR 2001 match was the night before, but might need to go check it out now. Secondly, I feel like WWF could've possibly finally built a Light Heavyweight Division that the fans would've cared about and rallied behind, and that could've competed with the reputation of WCW's cruiserweight division. Jeff was as over of a LHW Champ as you'll ever get. X-Pac had legit heat here. Plus, Tajiri had just debuted. You still had Dean Malenko for a bit. And Jerry Lynn was probably way misused during his run. Even Crash and Spike proved they could be entertaining in the right roles. Taka and Funaki were more of a hoot than ever with their INDEED! schtick. And Christian could've probably returned to his LHW roots too. That's a nice foundation that you can add to with Kidman, Rey, Noble, Hurricane, Shannon Moore, etc. as they come in. Anyway... A few other controversial (or common?) opinions: - The Uncle Kracker X-Factor theme is easily Waltman's greatest entrance theme. - JR & Heyman in 2001 were a better commentary team than JR & King in the peak of the Attitude Era. - X-Pac Heat is bullshit in the sense that the IWC means it. X-Pac had pretty legit heat here. Not like meh, go away heat. Like we wanna see this grease rat get his sleazy ass kicked heat. And now I've lost my train of thought, so that'll have to do for tonight.
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Post by Kilgore on Jan 15, 2018 2:30:44 GMT
That channel that I watched those WWF tryouts is recommending me matches galore. I watched a couple tonight. Ultimate Warrior & Kerry Von Erich vs. Rick Rude & Mr. Perfect (Springfield, Massachusetts: August 7, 1990)This was a dark match from a Wrestling Challenge taping, without commentary, which I'm really enjoying.It's basically a house show type of match. Rude and Perfect keep the heat on Von Erich for the majority of the match, Warrior comes in for the hot tag, which wasn't very hot, as it came ten seconds after a disallowed tag, and they didn't build back up to the next one, but Warrior cleans house and pins Perfect in about a minute with his stupid splash, which is so much worse than Hogan's much more maligned leg drop. Nothing special, but the wrestlers involved caught my interest. When Mr. Perfect looks like the most out of shape wrestler in the ring, you got some aesthetic looking motherfuckers in there. Not to beat a dead bigot, but holy shit, Warrior is terrible. It can't be overstated how bad at wrestling he was, and the few people to get quality matches out of him (Hogan, Savage, Rude) are fucking gods. Owen Hart vs. Barry Horowitz (Bristol, TN: March 8, 1988)This is another Wrestling Challenge dark match without commentary. The History of WWE tells me the name of the venue is Viking Hall (!), not to be confused with the hardcore bingo hall in Philla-fucking-Delphia. I praised Horowitz jobbing to Crush a year later, but he was truly a jobber here. In his defense, there weren't a lot of wrestlers moving like Owen Hart in 1988, so I think he just had trouble keeping up. This is Owen Hart in a WWF ring pre-Blue Blazer, and he's doing most of his Blazer offense. He hits his typical spots of the day like when he'd leap to the top rope and then do that split legged moonsault out of the armbar which gets people in the first five rows of the crowd reacting like people did the first time Michael Jackson did the moonwalk. They've never seen such sorcery before. Owen eventually wins with a Dynamite Kid diving headbutt that is more than three quarters across the ring. It's an impressive flight. Young Owen deserved better than he got. When you think about how good he already is '89/90, it's a minor tragedy that he didn't get a run in the big two until 1994. Different era for guys that size, unfortunately. I wasn't overstating the distance. Look at that shit.
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Post by Baker on Jan 16, 2018 6:09:43 GMT
Sting & Lex Luger vs. Blue Bloods- WCW Clash of the Champions January 1996- Tag Title Match
Figured I would revisit one of the 1996 WCW matches I was most looking forward to. Sting & Lex recently won the tag titles from Harlem Heat when Luger hit a Heater with a roll of quarters. Like all wrestlers, Sting apparently doesn't watch his own matches, or talk to literally anybody, so he remains blissfully unaware of Luger's cheating.
Blue Bloods are out first to their fabulous theme. They're dressed like gentlemen from another century, though, sadly, no periwigs are to be seen. Sting & Luger enter to applause. Schiavone & Heenan are on commentary.
Sting & His Lordship start things off. Sting does some quality mocking of Regal reminiscent of Hogan/Genius from SNME. Not much of note happens and now it's time for Luger to square off with Earl Robert. Eaton takes a pretty nutty backdrop on the concrete. He didn't go super high like he usually does but I can't really blame him because, like, it's a backdrop on the concrete. Eaton soon tags out when he has an opening. Lex muscles Lord Steven into the corner. Regal screams "Unhand me!" in a nice bit, although "Unhand me, knave!" would have taken it to the next level. Regal headbutts Luger while the ref is backing Lex away in a classic heel move. Blue Bloods take over. Regal hits a bunch of European Uppercut because of course he does. Crowd starts to get into it with a mix of "USA" and "Luger" chants. The "USA" chant eventually wins out. Eaton hits a top rope knee drop and stupidly tags out. Or not. Because Regal locks on his Regal Stretch finisher. Sting makes the save to a nice pop. Bad botch when Luger fails to catch an Eaton top rope cross body as planned and simply....collapses. Things get a little sloppy down the stretch. Eaton ends up jumping off the top rope onto Regal in a contrived spot I don't really feel like describing in detail. Sting quickly locks Eaton in a well executed Scorpion for the win.
Verdict- Basic 1996 tv match. Regal had a few amusing antics, and Eaton taking that back body drop on the floor was pretty nutty, but there's really not much to see here.
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Post by Kilgore on Jan 17, 2018 19:42:29 GMT
Bret Hart & The Undertaker vs. Diesel & Shawn Michaels (Madison Square Garden - March 17, 1996)
This is a cool bit of footage. It's sort of ECW Fan Cam style, a one WWF Camera shoot on the floor. Footage was used on Raw for the finish, which is why they did it this way, but it's a cool perspective. You get the bootleg experience of no commentary, hearing fans talking instead, but with the benefit of an awesome angle.
I always point out when Bret outpops HBK, which is pretty much always, but I got to give the devil his due, Michaels outpops Bret by a significant margin during the entrances on this night. They really built that eventual Michaels title win well here, as that's the loudest MSG pop I've heard Michaels get in the 90's (things would change radically at the old Garden 8 months later at Survivor Series). Undertaker came out last to by far the loudest pop, though.
Pre-match, Undertaker comes borderline running down the aisle to get to Nash. They fight on the outside, and eventually out of sight to the back. The match starts looking like a Wrestlemania 12 preview, Bret vs. Shawn singles match.
Michaels gets the early advantage before Bret slows down the pace and methodically beats down Shawn. Bret always reverts to heel psychology in babyface-babyface matchups. Oddly, "Let's Go Bret" chants are much more prevalent while they try to build heat for a Michaels comeback. A teased Shawn comeback even draws some boos. Maybe Shawn isn't as over as I thought. If I can try to get into the brain of an entire arena, it's sort of been like "Shawn Michaels music, yay. Shawn Michael posing, yay. Shawn Michaels stripping, I don't know about this. Shawn Michaels wrestling, LET'S GO BRET!"
Bill Apter in the house, shooting away ringside. I don't know that anybody loves their job more than Apter. He's always jazzed to be everywhere.
After six minutes of Bret vs. Shawn, Undertaker returns sans Diesel, who apparently didn't do well in the backstage brawl. Bret immediately tags in 'Taker, who throws Shawn around a little bit, before a quick tag to Bret like a seasoned tag team. Hart Taker? Hart Burn? The Death Foundation? Ministry of Hartness? Druthers of Destruction? Can-Chokeslam Connection? Inside Cradle to Grave? Loonie Tombs?
Diesel has now returned, 'Taker drops to the floor, and they brawl some more immediately disappearing backstage again. Kevin Nash drew this match up, no doubt. 'Taker was out there one minute, Nash ten seconds, and it's back to being a Bret vs. Shawn singles match.
Dueling Let's Go Bret/Let's Go Shawn chants, but not like it is today where you take turns. Let's Go [both names being said at the same time to the point where it doesn't sound like either name]!
Bret controls Shawn some more, Shawn's comeback gets a mixed reaction. He goes to the top and gets Ric Flaired off by the Hitman. Some obnoxious kid voices chanting for Bret in that high pitched Cena kind of cadence. I think I diagnosed the Shawn problem. Bret would obviously appeal to men more than Shawn because of the lover boy thing, which is often stated, but what usually isn't is that kids loved Hitman more too. He had the cooler merchandise, and his heel run was further in the distance, so most kids probably weren't even alive, whereas Michaels was a cocky jizzbag less than a year prior. With the modern day mixed ace, it's usually a kid/adult split, where in this case Bret had the advantage with both. Women would be Shawn's only advantage, but they were only like 10% of the audience (for a number I just pulled completely out of my ass, but prove me wrong. Wrestling was a sausage fest in the 90's), so that advantage didn't matter in the least.
Bret hits his awesome piledriver, which I wish he used more often. Then he controls Shawn some more with a front face lock. There is a lone voice that chants boring a couple of times. Shawn is pounding the canvas hyping up for a comeback.
I'm completely fascinated by crowd reactions in babyface-babyface matchups. I hope I'm not boring you with this shit. Shawn shoots Hitman and gets Hitman in a sleeper to a really loud pop. Then Bret belly-to-backs him to an even larger pop. Then the old double noggin knocker and they're both staring at the beautiful MSG ceiling.
Undertaker has returned with a lead pipe. He throws it down on the floor, seemingly already using it for its purpose as Diesel is no longer with him. It's been five minutes since either has last been seen.
Bret is now going into OCD mode with his excellent execution sequence of moves. We hear how the sausage is made with somebody telling the camera man to stay on 'Taker, and he'll tell him when to go back to the aisle for Diesel.
Bret tags in 'Taker. 'Taker does an old school, which was contemporary school in those days, walking the ropes, and dropping the hammer.
Michaels makes his comeback on 'Taker hitting a couple Chico Santana flying forearms, and a shitty dropkick that he misjudged the distance on, only grazing the Dead Man.
Diesel has made his return. He takes out Bret and grabs a chair.
'Taker is about to Tombstone Shawn when he spots Diesel on the floor who is gesturing like, "Yeah, I'm back, motherfucker." Shawn tries a schoolboy, but 'Taker kicks out. Diesel then jumps in, and starts destroying 'Taker with a chair, getting he and Shawn DQ'd. Bret comes in for a save, but he takes a chair shot to the back.
Shawn shows a little displeasure with Diesel like, "What the fuck, dude?" Diesel is all like, "You're right, bro. I lost my shit, man." Shawn turns his back, and then Diesel takes him out with a chair too. Diesel plays to the crowd and gets mostly booed, but he's getting a fair bit of cool heel cheers too. 'Taker runs him into the back. Shawn and Bret lay flat next to each other. Wrestlemania 12 is two weeks away.
Fun little bit of business. Hart and Michaels get to work out there Wrestlemania 12 match, Diesel turns heels turning up the heat on his match against 'Taker.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2018 3:27:09 GMT
Hit the jackpot and finally bit on that WCW Saturday Night 1985-1995 pack, I only downloaded the 1992 shows from it though. I'm watching the first episode from 92 now, the movie and video game commercials from 1992 alone make this excellent. Dangerous Alliance in the house, Rick Rude defends US title against jobber, later main event is Dustin Rhodes vs Arn, very much looking forward to watching through these tapes and have been for quite some time. It's a shame WWE dragging ass on uploading these to the Network and I had to resort to this method to finally see these.
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Post by Strobe on Jan 27, 2018 21:56:53 GMT
Just to let you guys know, after their Greatest Wrestler Ever project, the PWO guys have recently set up a Greatest Match Ever project with its own forum: gweproject.freeforums.net/. All the info about it is on there and lists must be submitted by Mania next year. Just in case anyone here wants to get involved or just find a list of heavily pimped matches and discussion about them.
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Post by Emperor on Jan 29, 2018 17:59:51 GMT
Royal Rumble 2018 I went into this show cold, knowing nothing of the current WWE storylines. There's something about the Royal Rumble concept that makes people want to tune in, even those who don't watch or like WWE anymore. I'm one of them.
WWE Championship AJ Styles (c) vs Kevin Owens and Sami Zayn A title being defended in a handicap match is absurd, but I won't go into that. The match was very good and worked about as well as a handicap title match could have been worked. At the start Owens and Zayn made a point of making quick tags at the start, and they continued this throughout the match. Styles' comeback was smart and believable. He'd catch one of his opponents with a big move and sell. Owens or Zayn would stay down for a bit, crawl to the corner, and tag out. Styles stays on the backfoot but is able to use his resorcefulness to repeatedly hit big moves until he recovered enough to string together some more offense. Styles used his quickness and cunning to keep his opponents at bay. Unfortunately for him, the numbers game was a huge drawback. At two points he had one of his opponents beat, only for their partner to make the save. Having withstood the worst, Owens and Zayn appear to be cruising to a finish, but Styles neatly counters a pop up powerbomb into a Victory Roll for a surprise three count.
It was a well put together match, but the premise inherently holds the match back. Styles being able to beat two top wrestlers makes them look like goofs a lot more than it makes Styles look great.
Smackdown Tag Team Championships 2 out of 3 falls The Usos (c) vs Chad Gable and Shelton Benjamin Above average tag team match that had some nice surprises. I like how they treated the first fall. Normally it takes a less than normal amount of punishment to get the first fall, but here they are kicking out of finishers like they would do in a regular one fall title match, which is exactly what they should be doing. There's a clver spot where Gable dives onto both Usos on the outside, rolls one into the ring, but is admonished by the referee because the Uso he chose is not the wrong one. An easy mistake to make in the heat of battle when you're against twins. This allows the Usos to hit a superkick/splash combo, but Gable kicks out. Great near fall. After some more action. Gable gets duped for a second time with a blind tag, and he gets hit with a bunch of superkicks. First fall to the Usos.
The challengers get the jump as The Usos try to take a breather. They hit their tag team finisher on the outside, leaving the other Uso alone in the ring. There's a small miscommunication as Shelton tags perhaps unintentionally. Gable hits a rolling kick. Shelton gingerly gets in the ring. Gable climbs to the top, setting up a double team move. Shelton grabs the Uso but gets small packaged for a shockingly quick second fall. Great shot of Gable scrambling towards the pin after the three count is made. Some great trope subversion here, and everything made sense. The Usos' great tag team form has not slowed down.
Men's Royal Rumble I'm saving my long-ass wordy review for the ladies, but I ought to say something here. This match was a lot of fun, one of the better Rumbles in recent memory. There was a funny running gag with wrestlers kicking Heath Slater as they made their entrance, which had a hilarious pay off. I liked all of the surprise entrances besides Adam Cole. Generally though, the middle section of the match was a bore, with not much to keep me interested besides the surprises and the obligatory Kofi Kingston spot. The end of the match was smart and dramatic. Reigns and Nakamura were the right two guys to end the match, and they worked well together.
WWE Championship Extreme Rules Brock Lesnar (c) vs Braun Strowman vs Kane The video package shows a hilarious buildup. One backstage segment saw Strowman pull a grappling hook out of his ass, threw it 50 feet in the air to hook the top of a large metal construction (impressive throw), then pulls the whole structure down on top of Kane and Lesnar. More clips shops all three guys no selling moves by sitting up Undertaker style, a parody of the Lesnar/Undertaker sitting up spot which was itself a a parody. That was fun.
If you load up the latest WWE video game and put these three in an Extreme Rules match, it would look like this one. Hosses running around executing finishers effortlessly with no buildup, rhyme or reason. Lots of no selling. In the first act Lesnar was the only guy who bothered to sell anything for more than a second, although he popped up fresh as a daisy when the match required it. Lesnar overturns an announce table on top of Strowman, which looked legitimately nasty. Kane gets F5'd through the second table. Strowman removes the table from on top of his carcass by sheer monster power. More bombs are thrown and not sold for very long. This disorganised mess of a match ends when Lesnar shoves Kane into Strowman, who bumps from the apron, selling this longer than the various finishers and table bumps he took. Lesnar F5's Kane and pins him. A moderately fun but largely pointless exercise, I suppose made mainly to get Strowman out of the Rumble match. It felt like an attempt to recreate the chaotic magic of Lesnar vs Goldberg (or maybe Lesnar vs Strowman), but it didn't really work for me.
Women's Royal Rumble Time for the historic first ever women's rumble. With Maria Menounos (a woman) acting as ring announcer. Stephanie McMahon (a woman), self-proclaimed starter of the women's (more than one woman) revolution as guest announcer. The two women's champions, Alexa Bliss and Charlotte Flair (both women), sit at ringside to watch this historic match. Steph points out that Sasha is making history just by being the first #1 entrant in the historic first ever women's royal rumble. Out comes Becky Lynch, who also makes history by being the first #2 entrant in the historic first ever women's royal rumble. Becky and Sasha have a historic lockup (by virtue of it being the first lockup in the historic blah blah blah). They do some fun grappling while Steph says "This is history in the making, right now." They put together a poor double clothesline spot so they can be down when the next women enters. Sarah Logan makes history by being the first #3 OK OK I'll stop it now.
Sarah Logan takes out both Sasha and Becky to crickets. Out comes another relative newcomer, Mandy Rose, who is able to create some crowd reaction at least. The crowd really kicks off when Lita comes out at #5. Lita looks genuinely thrilled to be there and receiving a monster reaction, but she's clearly lost several steps in the ring. Rose makes a rookie mistake of taunting while standing on the apron after being put over the top rope. Lita unspectacularly shoves her to the floor. Kairi Sane is next, winner of the Mae Young tournament, who I'm pleased to see gets a very good reaction. Pleased because the crowd doesn't only care about the nostalgia acts in this match. "She loves boating, hence her yacht persona" says Cole :lol: Come on Cole, her gimmick is silly enough as it is, you don't have to make it sound even sillier. Kairi Sane wrecks everyone and hits her awesome top rope elbow on Sasha Banks. The countdown starts and Kairi looks a bit lost. She decides to hit another top rope elbow on Becky Lynch exactly as the countdown hits 0. Fortunately for her, it's only Tamina, so Kairi Sane is forgiven for her timing error. Tamina is dressed in some kind of white Elvis-y jumpsuit which looks awful. Tamina kicks a few people to no reaction. Lita DDTs her to a big reaction. She Twist of Fates Sasha and Becky, then moonsaults both of them, making history in the process. So far the only elimination has been basically a lucky accident, nobody has tried to eliminate anyone else since. Just as I say that, Lita eliminates Tamina by lowering the top rope, then Becky sneaks up behind Lita and throws her over. Booo! Suddenly the remaining women become aware of the rules and start to try and eliminate each other. Dana Brooke is next. She makes history by being the first woman to not clean house on her entrance. Instead she is jumped by Becky as she rolls in the ring. She recovers and eliminates Kairi Sane to jeers. Torrie Wilson is next, who hasn't aged a day since I last saw her 10-15 years ago. Torrie launches Brooke over the top rope. Brooke lands on the apron. Torrie dropkicks a knee, a smart and simple way to send Brooke to the floor. The women in the back should take notes. As should the men. Sonya Deville is out next and eliminates Torrie after a clumsy setup. Decent showing from Torrie. She did better than Lita at least. Trish is going to show them both up, I reckon.
Liv Morgan next, then Molly Holly! Molly looks fantastic. She suplexes Becky Lynch and easily tosses Sarah Logan over the top. She makes history with a Medicore Molly Go Round on Sasha Banks. OK, she's shown up both Lita and Torrie before Trish got a chance to. Lana's next, prompting the crowd to chant "Rusev Day", as they did for most of the men's Rumble. This annoys me because I have no idea what "Rusev Day" is. Morgan and Deville double team Lana. Lana shoves Deville away and they just stop for a few moments. This confuses me. Deville looks towards the camera, making me think something is happening off screen, but nothing is happening, until Lana hits Deville with Women's Special Slap. She explodes on Liv Morgan but is quickly restrained and double teamed. Michelle McCool! Fuck yeah! She looks good, and wrestles good, eliminating Deville and Lana one after the other. Molly appears from nowhere. I believe her and Sasha and Becky randomly rolled under the bottom rope a while ago. McCool quickly places Molly outside the ring again, this time over the top rope. McCool taunts, Lana hits her from behind, McCool no sells. Taking after her husband. Lana points at the Wrestlemania sign and then gets eliminated. Sasha and Becky appear from nowhere, try to eliminate McCool, here comes Ruby Riot.
We're halfway through. #16's entrance music is a loud, shrill "Excuse me!" Vickie Guerrero walks to the ring and keeps yelling her catchphrase while the other women ignore her. They eventually stop ignoring her. Vickie demands that the women listen to her. She tries to flee under the bottom rope, but gets caught and gently lifted over the top rope. To be honest, I'd prefer it if that didn't happen, but at least it was short. Carmella comes out, jaw jacks with Vickie. Vickie grabs Carmella's MITB briefcase and hits her with it, overtaking Lance Storm's infamous ECW chair shot as the weakest weapon shot in pro-wrestling history. Sasha, Becky, Ruby, and Michelle are the only women in the ring. They fight amongst themselves until Natalya comes out. She dumps her gear on Carmella before she enters the ring. This wakes Carmella up, who pulls Natalya down from the apron and slides in the ring. Carmella and Becky make the Botchamania reel with a couple of cringey spots. Barbie Blank is next. Natalya eliminates McCool. Booo! "All these women are making history tonight." says Steph. Naomi next. Ruby Riot eliminates Becky. Jacqueline is here! Jackie don't still got it. Everyone bumps for her weak offense. Nia Jax makes her entrance. She eliminates Jackie with some effort, Kelly Kelly with no effort, and Ruby Riot with a gorilla press throw. Naomi stands up to Jax. We get a shot of like five women standing on the floor in the same place. Time for a wacky spot! Wacky spot is Jax eliminating Naomi but all the women catching her. I guess what was meant to happen is Naomi falling on top of the women and naturally coming to rest on the crowd barrier, but it didn't turn out that way. It was clear that the women were deliberately carrying her to the barrier.
Naomi sits on the barricade while NXT Champion Ember Moon enters with a taped up left arm. She is quickly dominated by Nia Jax. Moon rolls under the bottom rope like so many women before her, a cunning strategy. Naomi doesn't share this cunning. Instead of sitting on the barricade until one woman is left, she cashes in on her Kofi Kingston moment. She travels to the steel steps by walking on her hands, feet resting on Maria Menounos' wheely chair. It would have been even better and more history-making if Alexa Bliss, sitting at ringside, shoved the chair and eliminated Naomi. Naomi climbs the top rope behind Nia Jax, who was completely oblivious to Naomi's journey despite it being the only thing happening for the past two minutes. Jax realises in time to catch a diving crossbody and throw Naomi over the top. What a gloriously stupid sequence. Nia Jax is the only woman left in the ring, but I'm pretty sure Sasha is still in the match, and so is Natalya, and Ember Moon. Rolling out of the ring is a good kayfabe strategy, but it makes it confusing as fuck for the audience. This could be fixed by attentive commentary.
Beth Phoenix is out next to take on the goliath and make history. She's not as bulky as Jax, but she eliminated the Great Khali in the past, so she'll be fine. The crowd approves of the female equivalent of Lesnar vs Strowman. Beth fails to lift Jax. She succeeds on her second attempt, but can't carry her over the top rope. Natalya enters the ring. They shove Jax through the second rope and hug it out, Divas of Destruction reuinited. Natalya makes history by slapping Phoenix and eliminating her. I saw that coming a mile away. Asuka is here. In the meantime, Carmella and Sasha decide they're bored of Hornswoggle's tea party, so they re-enter the ring. They are followed by Ember Moon, who makes history by facing the woman she never beat. Asuka smirks and makes reference to the injured arm. Ember hits her finisher, the Eclipse. Seconds later, Asuka eliminates Moon. Good job killing your own finisher. #26 is Mickie James. Who's left? Trish, probably. Ronda, maybe. Alicia Fox. Baszler? Wrong on all counts. #27 is Nikki Bella. Carmella taunts her with the Cena you can't see me gesture. Carmella pays for this heinous crime by being eliminated. #28 is Brie Bella, making history by being the first set of twins to follow each other in a Rumble. "Yes" chants fill the arena. #29 is Bayley. Oops. Forgot all about her. #30 is Trish Stratus! Well, I got one right. Nobody has been eliminated in a while. There's still about 10 women left.
Trish makes history by hitting a double Stratusfaction on the Bella twins. It looks really good. Mickie turns to face Trish to a huge reaction. They stare each other down, then brawl, then Trish eliminates Mickie, then Jax runs over Trish. The remaining women are gravely insulted by this mistreatment of their saviour and leap on her. Jax throws them all off, Big Show style. But Asuka hits a spin kick and all the women make history as one by eliminating her together. Sasha eliminates Bayley which is treated as a semi-big deal, but not quite history making. Natalya sharpshooters Trish. She yellls "tap". Trish doesn't tap, which would save her a lot of pain without costing her anything. Instead she squirms for a while and breaks the hold by rolling to her back. Immediately they get up and Trish takes the offensive advantage, leading to Natalya's elimination. Natalya's finisher killed in the same way as Ember Moon's. Sasha gets in Trish's face. Trish kicks her, mocks her, goes for Stratusfaction, Sasha counters by throwing her over the top rope, making history for the 7th time in one match, which is itself a history-making accomplishment. It's Asuka's turn to mock Sasha. Instead of fighting, they realise the Bella twins are still around, and form an alliance. Sasha turns on Asuka with a big forearm, and the Bella twins join her. This is awful strategy on Sasha's part. Of course the Bellas are happy to play along. Sasha's really heeling it up against Asuka, which is fun to watch, but doesn't change the fact she's a moron. Doubly so because she turned her back on the Bellas to beat on Asuka. They watch her stomp Asuka for a moment or two, then toss her over the top rope.
This leaves Asuka, Nikki Bella, and Brie Bella. A current, recently-debuted wrestler on a hot streak and two retired wrestlers. Not a good booking decision. Why didn't they have Asuka and Sasha as the final two? Then you could have Sasha being awesome and heeling it up with some actual drama to the finish. Asuka nearly eliminates Brie but gets dropped with a Nikki forearm and a TKO. Brie is stood on the apron. Nikki turns on her twin in order to make hsitory, hitting her with a big elbow smash to score the penultimate elimination. I'll admit, I didn't expect that, but there's still no drama because it's blatantly obvious who's going to win. Nikki lifts Asuka over the top rope, and hits an elbow, but Asuka hangs on to the ropes. Asuka headscissors Nikki over the top rope, but Nikki lands on the apron. Nikki drops Asuka with another forearm smash. Asuka lands back first on the apron, but desperately lunges out with a kick to the shin. Nikki's leg goes from under her, and she falls to the floor. Asuka makes the most history by winning the first ever Women's Royal Rumble! I liked that finish, even though the outcome was a certainty from the final 3.
As much as I mocked the "making history" cliché, this is not at all representative of how the match was treated, or the commentary. Stephanie didn't put herself over at all during commentary, and instead reacted to the action pretty much like a fan, supported by her experienced colleagues. The commentary was generally pretty good, and so was the match. All the surprises were nice, but as a whole there were plenty of dull periods just like any Rumble match. Overall I liked it, but not as much as the men's Rumble.
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Post by Big Pete on Jan 30, 2018 16:44:59 GMT
Gee, I thought the outcome was obvious once Trish's music hit at #30. The only other viable winner was Ronda and since they saved her for the post-match, nobody other than Asuka made any sense. I saw Nikki Bella in the same light as Roman Reigns. Somebody who the fans dislike and would give Asuka a rub by losing their encounter. It may not seem like much, but she was the longest reigning woman's champion in WWE history, so seeing her pass the torch to Asuka in a match that was filled with legendary women was fitting.
Otherwise I agree with a lot of the write up. In the handicap match, I liked how they gave Owens/Zayn an out by having Styles pin the illegal man. Brock/Braun/Kane was a mess, but I did like some of the stiff strikes Brock and Braun hit one another with. I still believe the match should have been Balor/Lesnar but it was as good as it was going to be.
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