Here Comes The Pain definitely tightened the gameplay to give it some depth but didn't get too carried away with the mini-games and other nonsense that came later. It sounds like you're describing SvR 2007 where you'd hit R3 and then you could flick the analogue stick a certain way to execute a move and it homogenized the roster. The stamina system also came in the year prior for SvR 2006 which was really the last game to have the gameplay resembling HCTP.

In HCTP they would display a body and for every piece of damage your guy took, the body part that was affected would flash. Eventually it would turn from clear to red and by the time it goes to red, it would force your opponent to sell exhaustion and long term damage.

By momentum, I'm referring to the Attitude metre in No Mercy. Where if it's red you'll have an easier time hitting signature moves, whereas if you're in blue just about every move will be reversed. in SmackDown, it doesn't matter what move you go for, your opponent is going to try and reverse it and it comes down to a contest of who blinks first.

Apr 28, 2020 18:30:12 GMT Big Pete said:

Here Comes The Pain definitely tightened the gameplay to give it some depth but didn't get too carried away with the mini-games and other nonsense that came later. It sounds like you're describing SvR 2007 where you'd hit R3 and then you could flick the analogue stick a certain way to execute a move and it homogenized the roster. The stamina system also came in the year prior for SvR 2006 which was really the last game to have the gameplay resembling HCTP.

In HCTP they would display a body and for every piece of damage your guy took, the body part that was affected would flash. Eventually it would turn from clear to red and by the time it goes to red, it would force your opponent to sell exhaustion and long term damage.

By momentum, I'm referring to the Attitude metre in No Mercy. Where if it's red you'll have an easier time hitting signature moves, whereas if you're in blue just about every move will be reversed. in SmackDown, it doesn't matter what move you go for, your opponent is going to try and reverse it and it comes down to a contest of who blinks first.

Oh shit, then maybe I did play HCTP because I do remember the body part meter you're describing. Seemed like a good idea lost on a game that was still too arcade-y.

Apr 28, 2020 14:10:13 GMT 🤯 said:

RagnarokMike , you've sold me on most of those.

I didn't list Sunshine because I have played it, and it was/is TERRIBLE. Fucking hate that shit. Unless I'm misremembering and confusing it with something else. Was there a GameCube Mario game dedicated to Luigi? Maybe I'm conflating the two. But pretty sure I hated both.

That would be Luigi's Manson, Sunshine is where you were chasing down ink Mario and had to clean the world.

Apr 28, 2020 21:03:42 GMT RagnarokMike said:

Apr 28, 2020 14:10:13 GMT 🤯 said:

RagnarokMike , you've sold me on most of those.

I didn't list Sunshine because I have played it, and it was/is TERRIBLE. Fucking hate that shit. Unless I'm misremembering and confusing it with something else. Was there a GameCube Mario game dedicated to Luigi? Maybe I'm conflating the two. But pretty sure I hated both.

That would be Luigi's Manson, Sunshine is where you were chasing down ink Mario and had to clean the world.

I think Big Pete helped clear up my conflation of the two. They both still sucked hard. I'll admit though Sunshine sucked less hard.

Luigi’s Mansion is amazing so there is no way he hated that.

Apr 28, 2020 21:03:42 GMT RagnarokMike said:

Apr 28, 2020 14:10:13 GMT 🤯 said:

RagnarokMike , you've sold me on most of those.

I didn't list Sunshine because I have played it, and it was/is TERRIBLE. Fucking hate that shit. Unless I'm misremembering and confusing it with something else. Was there a GameCube Mario game dedicated to Luigi? Maybe I'm conflating the two. But pretty sure I hated both.

That would be Luigi's Manson, Sunshine is where you were chasing down ink Mario and had to clean the world.

I think Big Pete helped clear up my conflation of the two. They both still sucked hard. I'll admit though Sunshine sucked less hard.

Whoa... Glitch in the matrix.

Apr 28, 2020 22:44:04 GMT 🤯 said:

Whoa... Glitch in the matrix.

You know you can delete posts, right?

Apr 28, 2020 23:02:06 GMT Lionheart said:

Apr 28, 2020 22:44:04 GMT 🤯 said:

Whoa... Glitch in the matrix.

You know you can delete posts, right?

Delete.

Apr 28, 2020 23:03:32 GMT 🤯 said:

Apr 28, 2020 23:02:06 GMT Lionheart said:

You know you can delete posts, right?

Delete.

It's not working. I can't delete your post.

Imagine pi cranking up that Nelly sitting down with his freshly mint GameCube. He's dreamt of this moment ever since he finished Mario 64 6 yeasrs ago. How will Nintendo improve upon their masterpiece? Will we get a Mario Kingdom? Will we get a million transformations? Will there be a theme park world where you get to go go-karting and all that cool stuff? That's when he loads up Mario Sunshine...where Mario says goodbye to all of that and pi has to play through his summer vacation which turns out to be his community service.

-_-

Nintendo had one job and they gave Mario, the guy known for jumping, a jet pack?

Okay, so that sucked, but finally Luigi gets his own game. Surely it has to be better than that Mario Is Missing game he played when he was a wee lad who got hoodwinked into another pop quiz. Heh, story of pi's life.

Hey 🤯 what's the capital of Nebraska?

So pi loads up Luigi's Mansion. Sure, it isn't a castle like Mario 64, but a Mansion could work just as well and maybe it'll let the lesser characters shine. Maybe this will be like Mario Harry Potter and Luigi will get to become a wizard? Maybe the game really goes for it and becomes another fantastic spin-off like Yoshi's Island or Mario Tennis?

Nope, Luigi is just a cleaner doing the vaccuuming.

pi had done all his weekend chores, he'd cleaned the car, done the mowing, done the mopping, cleaned the gutters, trimmed the hedges, raked the leaves all the stuff a good son should and Nintendo wanted to waste his time with MORE chores?

Then imagine pi loading up Wrestlemania X-8. Surely they didn't mess this up? Surely this is the best AKI game to come along with a fully customisable roster, the best CAW system, more match-types, a new and improved season and everything else.

Nope, it's like a bootleg love-child of No Mercy and SmackDown. A total mut and to make matters worse they couldn't even add Brock Lesnar to the roster.

-_-''

The GameCube never recovered and pi has never bought another Nintendo console since.

Apr 29, 2020 7:35:38 GMT Big Pete said:

Imagine pi cranking up that Nelly sitting down with his freshly mint GameCube. He's dreamt of this moment ever since he finished Mario 64 6 yeasrs ago. How will Nintendo improve upon their masterpiece? Will we get a Mario Kingdom? Will we get a million transformations? Will there be a theme park world where you get to go go-karting and all that cool stuff? That's when he loads up Mario Sunshine...where Mario says goodbye to all of that and pi has to play through his summer vacation which turns out to be his community service.

-_-

Nintendo had one job and they gave Mario, the guy known for jumping, a jet pack?

Okay, so that sucked, but finally Luigi gets his own game. Surely it has to be better than that Mario Is Missing game he played when he was a wee lad who got hoodwinked into another pop quiz. Heh, story of pi's life.

Hey 🤯 what's the capital of Nebraska?

So pi loads up Luigi's Mansion. Sure, it isn't a castle like Mario 64, but a Mansion could work just as well and maybe it'll let the lesser characters shine. Maybe this will be like Mario Harry Potter and Luigi will get to become a wizard? Maybe the game really goes for it and becomes another fantastic spin-off like Yoshi's Island or Mario Tennis?

Nope, Luigi is just a cleaner doing the vaccuuming.

pi had done all his weekend chores, he'd cleaned the car, done the mowing, done the mopping, cleaned the gutters, trimmed the hedges, raked the leaves all the stuff a good son should and Nintendo wanted to waste his time with MORE chores?

Then imagine pi loading up Wrestlemania X-8. Surely they didn't mess this up? Surely this is the best AKI game to come along with a fully customisable roster, the best CAW system, more match-types, a new and improved season and everything else.

Nope, it's like a bootleg love-child of No Mercy and SmackDown. A total mut and to make matters worse they couldn't even add Brock Lesnar to the roster.

-_-''

The GameCube never recovered and pi has never bought another Nintendo console since.

Dropping yet another 2020 Post of the Year contender, Big Pete bolsters his lead in the face to become the 2020 Poster of the Year by an entire horse length... While simultaneously assuming the role of my painfully accurate and insightful psychiatrist.

:cry:

Apr 29, 2020 7:35:38 GMT Big Pete said:

Nope, Luigi is just a cleaner doing the vaccuuming.

Hey, ain't nothing wrong with being a cleaner!

May 2, 2020 3:13:02 GMT Lionheart said:

Apr 29, 2020 7:35:38 GMT Big Pete said:

Nope, Luigi is just a cleaner doing the vaccuuming.

Hey, ain't nothing wrong with being a cleaner!

More NJPW K-Pop nonsense, amirite - Strobe/Emperor?

Edit: excuse me, my bad -- Dr. Emperor

May 2, 2020 3:29:08 GMT 🤯 said:

May 2, 2020 3:13:02 GMT Lionheart said:

Hey, ain't nothing wrong with being a cleaner!

More NJPW K-Pop nonsense, amirite - Strobe/Emperor?

Edit: excuse me, my bad -- Dr. Emperor

The rest of those NJPW guys look like the toughest, most legit, most authentic wrestlers of all time compared to Omega. He is the poster child of cosplay wrestling. His facial expressions make me feel the same as Adam Sandler doing a silly voice. My own face and those of any nearby children are in danger of repeated punching. I don't dislike him as much as Cornette seems to, but then again, I can't make any money off of it.

It surprisingly seems no one is a fan of Oddworld. Easily the best game I played in my childhood. The level of atmosphere and environment that this game pulled you in with is nearly unparalleled in gaming history, despite being a game from '97. You should all play it! Check it out!

May 4, 2020 3:05:26 GMT jTjohncenaGOAT said:

Apr 28, 2020 18:15:39 GMT Big Pete said:

You're just missing SmackDown Shut Your Mouth which was the 2002 release.

SmackDown 1 & 2 came out for the PS1. The first one was like a beta, and KYR came out eight months later. It was a pretty impressive game for it's time with a lot of match types and a full season mode.

Just Bring It was the first game on the PS2 and was a massive disappointment. They barely made any improvements over the original and a lot of the new gimmicks were horribly disappointing. It also ate up half your memory card.

Shut Your Mouth was much improved with better models, better commentary, a proper season mode that referenced a lot of major storylines and a bigger roster size. Also has one of the GOAT credit sequences.

It really picks up at about 3:30

Here Comes The Pain overhauled the grappling system, included the body part system from AKI games and fixed a lot of matches to make them more like their real life counter-parts. The Cells were actually proportionate to their real life size, tag matches had better AI and submissions were fixed. The lighting system was fantastic and it was pretty much close to perfect.

It also had the best rendition of Brock Lesnar in any video game period. And that includes Crush Hour. Everybody sold each move like death so it has that satisfying crunch of an AKI game.

The only thing the game really missed was the momentum system of AKI games. It's the one thing none of these games have gotten right, except Fire Pro.

5:04 .. I nearly lost it.

Ditto. Same exact point.

I'm willing to concede these credits are greater than anything in No Mercy, modded or unmodded.