Jun 27, 2020 19:12:00 GMT Strobe said:

He was never near as unathletic as Punk, but he did try to work beyond his abilities at times and it showed.

I see Jericho bust out a beautiful Lionsault these days and I am amazed. As in, "he can still do that?!" amazed. It just doesn't look like something he should be able to do, the way he has wrestled for the past couple of years.

Jun 27, 2020 23:46:13 GMT jTjohncenaGOAT said:

Jun 27, 2020 19:52:10 GMT RT said:

All this CM Punk and Chris Jericho bashing just confirms what I’ve known for years: you’re all on this board because everyone in real life is sick of listening to you be wrong all the time.

I was the high vote for CM Punk, and it should be no secret who I put at #1.

Y’all think Ric Flair was the GOAT because he was good in the 70s. You want to talk about guys that got over for being a decent promo and mediocre in the ring? Look no further.

Hogan had two moves but because he was a good promo and good at selling breakfast cereal everyone worships the ground he walks on.

Who else? Hart? Sure, excellent in the ring, maybe the best ever. But he made Lance Storm promos look like a Game of Thrones episode. And he whines more than CM Punk ever did even now! He retired 20 years ago! Shut up already!

CM Punk has plenty of faults but he deserves to be held in high regard. I won’t make an argument for him being the GOAT because he isn’t (Jericho is). But he was a huge reason ROH was a success, he carried the WWE on his shoulders for years, and his long title run with Paul Heyman at his side is one of the best things the WWE has ever done.

Get outta my face.

I was the low vote on CM Punk and Chris Jericho. Considering I didn’t even consider them for my list. How does that make you feel down in your feels old man?

It makes me wonder how someone who likes John Cena so much can have such poor taste.

I feel like the first part answered the question.

Jun 27, 2020 19:12:00 GMT Strobe said:

Punk was a very good worker at times and did manage to overcome his clear physical limitations for the most part. I can't believe that anyone who worked with him in a jiu jitsu or MMA gym genuinely thought he wasn't going to get absolutely battered in the UFC. With his lack of natural athleticism, even with access to elite trainers, I don't know if I'd back him against the top guys in local amateur clubs. Just fighting such an uphill battle. Technical prowess is the least important thing to me for a wrestler, although he did expose himself more than others who lack that, by trying to work intricate sequences and athletic spots.

Jun 27, 2020 14:05:08 GMT Emperor said:

I have been genuinely surprised to see people recently taking about Jericho as maybe the Greatest Ever or even as a contender. Not that this is shitting on him, but I'll get this out the way (since he was brought up) before his placement, where those who voted for him can praise in peace.

I think Jericho is either the worst great in-ring worker or the best good in-ring worker. I'd probably say he might be the worst great promo or the best good promo as well. He maxes out at a certain level for me. He might have a few **** matches but that's it. He might have a few really good promos. He is top of the middle or bottom of the top. He always used to get lumped in with Benoit and Eddie, when he is not on their level as a worker. He was never near as unathletic as Punk, but he did try to work beyond his abilities at times and it showed. He's a 7/10 who was 8/10 on his best days.

I agree with all this. And I mean everything. 100%.

I also got a kick out of feisty RT. I mean, he is obviously wrong, but at least he's wrong in an entertaining way. 

Jun 28, 2020 0:29:38 GMT @ness said:

I feel like the first part answered the question.

McBain_Thats_The_Joke.jpeg

I’m going full heel for the rest of this thread. You jabronis.

Jun 28, 2020 2:48:10 GMT Baker said:

Jun 27, 2020 19:12:00 GMT Strobe said:

Punk was a very good worker at times and did manage to overcome his clear physical limitations for the most part. I can't believe that anyone who worked with him in a jiu jitsu or MMA gym genuinely thought he wasn't going to get absolutely battered in the UFC. With his lack of natural athleticism, even with access to elite trainers, I don't know if I'd back him against the top guys in local amateur clubs. Just fighting such an uphill battle. Technical prowess is the least important thing to me for a wrestler, although he did expose himself more than others who lack that, by trying to work intricate sequences and athletic spots.I have been genuinely surprised to see people recently taking about Jericho as maybe the Greatest Ever or even as a contender. Not that this is shitting on him, but I'll get this out the way (since he was brought up) before his placement, where those who voted for him can praise in peace.

I think Jericho is either the worst great in-ring worker or the best good in-ring worker. I'd probably say he might be the worst great promo or the best good promo as well. He maxes out at a certain level for me. He might have a few **** matches but that's it. He might have a few really good promos. He is top of the middle or bottom of the top. He always used to get lumped in with Benoit and Eddie, when he is not on their level as a worker. He was never near as unathletic as Punk, but he did try to work beyond his abilities at times and it showed. He's a 7/10 who was 8/10 on his best days.

I agree with all this. And I mean everything. 100%.

I also got a kick out of feisty RT. I mean, he is obviously wrong, but at least he's wrong in an entertaining way. 

Or maybe RT and I are right and the rest of you are wrong.

All this outrage over personal favorites baffles me. This isn’t a “best wrestler of all time list”. It’s who people happen to like the most. Everyone’s reasoning will be (mostly) unique, and this countdown just happens to bundle them together. Someone could like Triple H because they think he’s good in the ring, or someone likes him because he looks like their favorite grandma. The criteria for personal favorites is wildly flexible.

I am 100% with RT and iron maiden on CM Punk. I will admit that I really dithered about where to put him on my list as I really don't like Phil Brooks, I think he's an ass who truly believes his own hype.

However, I did then remember how much I loved Punk's run in WWE, we all know he wasn't the best in-ring competitor but the guy had that something magic, that spark that so few have and wish they did. Dude got the biggest reactions this side of SCSA and that's not something that happens every day. Heyman/Punk was a special sort of magic too, he had something that doesn't come along every day and the fact he's still held in such high regard today for a relatively short run, says volumes about his impact on the business. I had Punk at No. 10 on my list and I think that's about right for me.

The biggest POS to ever do it.

I love(d) Punk. His feud with Daniel Bryan with AJ Lee involved is the most invested I've ever been in a WWE main event. The pipebomb is obviously one of the most iconic promos in history, and the MITB match with Cena is a genuine all time match. The atmosphere surrounding that was the last time that I think wrestling genuinely mattered and felt like a big fucking deal. Unfortunately they completely fumbled the momentum after that when they could have done something innovative with Punk holding the title hostage instead of that asinine decision to bring Kevin Nash back.

One part of his WWE career I'm surprised to see a few people mention here was his time with Paul Heyman, which I thought was better in theory than anything it actually produced. The Ryback feud was bleh, I really liked the Undertaker Mania match but the feud with the Paul Bearer stuff was in pretty poor taste, and then the breakup feud with Heyman going to Ryback and Curtis Axel was shite.

His ROH stuff has only been mentioned in passing but there was so much gold there. His matches with Joe got all the attention because of Meltzer's ratings, but my personal favourite was his feud with the Embassy and his matches with Jimmy Rave - I know Baker also was a fan of these. I hardly ever see their cage match referenced but that was storytelling and emotion at it's best, much better than watching 45 mins of chinlocks.

Voxtz Come on, buddy. This is the internet. You can't expect people to be reasonable.

CM Punk- Did not make my list. Did not make my big list of 200. Would almost certainly fail to crack a list of my 1000 favorite wrestlers. I do not like CM Punk. I have never liked CM Punk. And I can't imagine I ever will like CM Punk.

Ever come across somebody who just rubs you the wrong way? It happens in wrestling too. Hulk Hogan in the 80s. Shawn Michaels in the 90s. Also, Hogan again in the 90s. And CM Punk in the 21st Century. He was the guy I loved to hate. Half the fun in going to all those ROH shows back in the day came from booing and heckling CM Punk. The best was the time he gave me a death glare after I shouted out some pro-Teddy/anti-Punk comment that cracked up the guy beside me. Then there was the time I got him with a Scotty Too Hotty line (or at least amused the people around me) that made sense in context. Good times.

Punk making the Top 10 didn't really surprise me. He's always been a polarizing figure. People either love him or hate him. There is very little in between. Turns out 13 denizens of PW love The Punker.

My intro to Punk came when he was generating some buzz in 2001-02 IWA Mid South. They were a "cool" indie. So I bought some tapes. Punk got off on the wrong foot right away with all those long, boring matches against Chris Hero. Those snoozefests made the Bret/Shawn Ironman Match look like a high energy Rey/Psicosis actionfest. I also couldn't stand Punk on commentary, something that would continue for as long as I followed his career. The "no whammy" line at one of the Ted Petty Invitationals remains a standard bearer for cringe commentary. I don't even think I've heard Mauro reach that depth of suck yet.

I know Punk mainly for his ROH run. I had never heard of the Straight Edge subculture until discovering CM Punk. This happened during a period where I went off drinking. So I was actually intrigued by this seemingly wholesome lifestyle. I looked into it. Turned out it was little more than a bunch of pushy pricks listening to shitty music. So I quickly lost interest and managed to avoid joining a cult. Close call!

Anyway, Punk really picked up steam during the Raven feud in ROH. That's when he got on the radar of most (hardcore) fans. Most of their matches were pretty meh, as Raven couldn't really go anymore, and didn't wrestle the 'right' style for the promotion he was in, but this feud was gold from a booking/sports entertainment standpoint. Loved Raven, the babyface. Hated Punk, the heel. Which is as it ought to be. It also worked as a passing of the torch, with Punk being a 2000s version of Raven in many ways. 

That feud segued into Punk/Daniels, which had an epic build but was cut short due to Daniels ditching ROH for TNA fulltime after the Rob Feinstein incident. Again, I was super invested in an old fashioned "cheer the face/boo the heel" sort of way. Punk definitely drew some dimes as the guy I loved to hate.

Then came the Samoa Joe trilogy, which drew a lot of dimes from hardcore tape buying fans. He also turned face around this time, which was gross. CM Punk is, was, and always will be a natural heel. 

I obviously never liked Punk. But what really put him on my shitlist was his real life feud with Teddy Hart, highlighted by Teddy giving Punk a glimpse into his future by beating him in a real life fight. There was a short-lived Teddy Hart fansite which is genuinely one of my favorite sites ever. It was basically just a bunch of fun-loving Teddy Hart fanboys posting hilarious pro-Teddy memes while shitting on CM Punk and his dour fans in equally hilarious ways.

As much as Punk liked to fancy himself a rebel, he was really anything but. Teddy was the real rebel. Punk didn't just play The Game. He excelled at the political aspect of wrestling. He was Gabe's boy in the same way Raven had once been Paul E's boy. Punk latched onto Raven to get into TNA. Then he latched onto Corino to get booked in Japan. Then he was Paul E's boy in OVW. Some "rebel".... 

But even as a Punk hater, I knew he had "it." Ever since he blew up as a star I had him pegged as the #1 mainstream wrestling prospect in ROH. He was head and shoulders above everybody else in ROH when it came to presence, charisma, and especially mic skills. He also had the coolest entrance in the promotion. He did have a poor physique, but at least he was tall, and you could kinda sorta buy him as a legit heavyweight.

He's also a lot like Jericho in that he fancies himself this technical wizard, but is actually better in brawls. Punk was sloppy and unathletic. But that can be overcome! And Punk overcame it. His Cage Match with Jimmy Rave is an overlooked classic that I actually rate as my 2nd favorite ROH match ever. (HR posted while I was in the middle of writing this and I will back him up on the greatness of this match, and the entire Punk/Rave feud, which I was again genuinely invested in). I'll likely never watch them again, but I enjoyed the 3 famous Joe matches, with the 3rd being my favorite. He also had an awesome Chicago Street Fight teaming with Ace Steel against Maff & Whitmer. One of the Raven matches (Death Before Dishonor 2003?) was a perfectly cromulent Attitude Era main event bolstered by a lot of fun bells & whistles. Another time there was this awesome post-match angle following a Punk & Cabana vs. Raven & Daniels bout that would have been legendary if it happened in front of a better crowd. 

Then there was the shitty Daniels match 2 years in the making that I've ranted and raved about enough over the years. Still, Punk definitely delivered with the right opponent in the right situations. Then he left for the greener pastures of WWE.....

I followed the first few months of his OVW run. It was my favorite promotion in all of wrestling at the time. Punk had a bunch of good Benoit/Angle-inspired matches with Brent "Gunner Scott" Albright over their TV Title.

There was a (fake?) rumor around Wrestlemania 22 that CM Punk was going to debut as John Cena's hypeman, MC Punk  :lol: I swear this happened! And I soooo wish it happened for real. The idea of egomaniac CM Punk being stuck as John Cena's hypeman is even more delicious today than it was 14 years ago. 

Instead he debuted on WWECW and....did stuff? Those first two years are a blur outside of the cool Morrison feud over the WWECW Title. WWE did him no favors by presenting him as more or less a whitemeat babyface. Definitely the worst possible role for Punk. He excels at playing the douchebag heel, which he should, given that it is his real life personality. I suppose he's also good enough at portraying an edgy babyface. But a smiling good guy talking about (CRINGE!) clobberin' time? Not so much. 

CM Punk got his big break by winning Money In The Bank because Jeff Hardy gonna Jeff Hardy. Then he won the title on an episode of Raw. Hated it! It definitely accelerated the process of me going off wrestling. *laugh/cry* "Well, I guess they'll give the belt to anybody nowadays."- 2008 Baker. Punk then entered into a heatless midcard feud with an honestly cold JBL and I soon went off wrestling entirely. 

Haven't seen much (anything?) of Punk's since then. I was completely out of the loop during the whole Pipebomb era. Don't think I even knew it existed until I joined PW over a year later. Besides, I'd be hard pressed to think of a feud that holds less appeal for me than CM Punk vs. John Cena. Yuck!

Jun 29, 2020 1:53:49 GMT Baker said:

He also had the coolest entrance in the promotion.

He'd be one of a handful of wrestlers who would have two entries into a best entrance of all time bracket. The fans banging on those old metal ROH barricades to the start of Miseria Cantare was honestly epic and completely belied the fact that it was 200 neckbeards at a basketball court. I put the song on while I was making this post and still get chills. So cool.

#5 Eddie Guerrero
14 Votes-505 Points
One #1 Vote
Last Time: #10

Didn't disprove the theory he was the HHH of the indies with that entrance. Still loved it though, always felt like an event.

And of course Eddy gets posted right after I post that. I didn't learn to appreciate him until that photo oddly enough, WM20. Going back into his catalog I did though. Really did die right at his peak too. Love the Brock match and while not as good obviously I still really enjoy the Batista match too. Eddy + big hoss + No in the PPV title = greatness.

Eddie was my #1. I still haven't really recovered from his death. Obviously he killed his heart with his addictions and steroid use, and there's been no shortage of terribly early deaths of pro wrestlers, but his felt different because he was just so good and still had so much left to give. He'd just turned face and was about to become World Champion again after that absolutely ridiculously good heel run feuding with Mysterio - that promo he cut with Rey's mask is honestly the most I've ever bought something in pro wrestling - and as a fan it was like we'd made it through this scary and dark time with him and were just emerging back into the fun and hilarious Eddie only for it all to be taken away for real. It was devastating then, and I'm still getting emotional thinking about it 15 years later.

Jun 29, 2020 2:02:48 GMT @admin said:

Jun 29, 2020 1:53:49 GMT Baker said:

He'd be one of a handful of wrestlers who would have two entries into a best entrance of all time bracket. The fans banging on those old metal ROH barricades to the start of Miseria Cantare was honestly epic and completely belied the fact that it was 200 neckbeards at a basketball court. I put the song on while I was making this post and still get chills. So cool.

Agreed. So epic that even I, an admitted Punk hater, bought the AFI cd just for Punk's theme.

I take offense at the neckbeard crack though. I was one of those 200 and I did not have a neckbeard!

Yet.  :$  

Look, I got a little lazy with the shaving a few years back. I'm better now. My old boss, of all people, set me straight. We were always ribbing each other and one day he quite accurately called me a neckbeard. Tough, but fair. I saw the light.

TMI
=================
I already wrote Eddie's blurb in my 200 Favorite Wrestlers thread. Will C&P with a few edits I'm sure early tomorrow. Then drop #4 tomorrow night so I can finish this up by the 4th of July. 

Eddie was a late cut from my list. He just never clicked with me.

I liked watching his matches, I respected how good he was in the ring, and he had charisma to spare. But I just never cared if he won or lost. And half the time I found his shtick annoying or overbearing.

He makes my top 100 list with ease. Probably even ends up in the 50's somewhere, since I did consider him for my list but he was closer to the bottom and eventually got cut.

Jun 29, 2020 4:23:59 GMT RT said:

Eddie was a late cut from my list. He just never clicked with me.

I liked watching his matches, I respected how good he was in the ring, and he had charisma to spare. But I just never cared if he won or lost. And half the time I found his shtick annoying or overbearing.

He makes my top 100 list with ease. Probably even ends up in the 50's somewhere, since I did consider him for my list but he was closer to the bottom and eventually got cut.

I agree with this word for word.

Get outta my head RT it’s scary in here. Save yourself!

Eddie was my number 3.

I loved everything about the guy. From his programme with Chyna (which was brilliant), right through to Viva La Raza I loved everything he did. He was wonderful in the ring, and charisma to spare. The lying, cheating, stealing gimmick was just wonderful and I’ll never forget him stealing Ric Flair’s number at the Rumble.

I loved Eddie and was gutted when I found out he had passed, I’ll never forget the moment I found out, I was at work and monsoon texted me to tell me, I was so upset. He had so much more to give and so much more he could have done. Sadly, his demons caught up with him even though he’d turned his life round.

I’m happy with Eddie as my no. 3.

Jun 29, 2020 4:23:59 GMT RT said:

Eddie was a late cut from my list. He just never clicked with me.

I liked watching his matches, I respected how good he was in the ring, and he had charisma to spare. But I just never cared if he won or lost. And half the time I found his shtick annoying or overbearing.

He makes my top 100 list with ease. Probably even ends up in the 50's somewhere, since I did consider him for my list but he was closer to the bottom and eventually got cut.

For years I thought I was literally the only person on PW who didn't worship Eddie Guerrero. I feel exactly as you do. Where were you and IM all these years?

I think Eddie was likely the first real time death in his prime for a lot of PW users. I wonder if his standing thus benefits the most from his untimely passing?

Seems a good chunk of us were either too young or not watching in real time to grasp Owen's death and feel its full impact. But there was definitely a time where he seemed right up there with Eddie as far as extra beloved status likely enhanced by his tragic and untimely passing. I think Eddie's stings harder because of his positioning on the card though. Owen's prime was slightly behind him.

I think that's why guys' deaths like Brian Pillman, Mr. Perfect, Davey Boy, etc. don't elevate them AS much in fans minds. They were far removed from their primes and/or relevancy, so even if too young to die regardless of the circumstances... The shock and sadness didn't rose tint the glasses all that much more.

And then there's a guy like Benoit, whose shocking death and the situation surrounding it has the anti-Eddie effect. And I partly wonder if based on the closeness between Eddie and Benoit and their long association, if the contrast in emotion around their passings in a way further elevates feelings about Eddie.

I had him at #26 on my list. Feels about right. I loved him as a midcard act and guard to the main event scene. And while I bought him as a main event guy too, his part in the whole me-not-getting-Brock/Benoit-II-at-WMXX honestly kinda soured me a bit on him.

Always thought it was more a HHH call as he was tired of having shit matches.

Jun 29, 2020 13:51:59 GMT jTjohncenaGOAT said:

You didn’t get Brock/Benoit because Brock was about to go job to a bunch of NFL hacks and Vince wanted to cash in on him and other notable part-time loser Goldberg before they both cashed checks and walked away.

Jun 29, 2020 13:57:12 GMT @ness said:

Always thought it was more a HHH call as he was tired of having shit matches.

Pretty sure @ness is right as far as why we/I didn't get Brock vs. Benoit II...

Eddie Guerrero could be the greatest counter-grappler in the history of Pro Wrestling. He could stand toe to toe with anyone in terms of pure grappling, but it was the counters to the F5, Rock Bottom and Ankle Lock that stick out in my mind.

One of my first memories of Pro Wrestling was Eddie Guerrero's return from a near fatal car accident. It was one of the biggest segments on the show and I was left underwhelmed, at that age I didn't appreciate how badly he had hurt himself. I can barely remember the rest of his run, other than his time in the Filthy Animals which was a really disappointing ensemble. You would think a group with Eddie Guerrero, Rey Mysterio and Billy Kidman could at least do something in the mid-card but the dynamic felt off. It seemed like they couldn't quite figure out who the figurehead was between Eddie and Konnan so the group lacked the dynamic they should have had on the show. In the end, it just seemed like the stable existed to get Torrie Wilson on the show who was obviously stunning, but that's three quality performers making room for a valet who barely had any experience on television. I recall Eddie was supposed to face off against Billy Kidman over Torrie Wilson, but I don't recall them having a meaningful match.

I wasn't really a smark back then, so I was confused when Eddie joined the rest of the Revolution and started calling themselves the Radicalz. It just seemed like a TNA knock-off name to me, like BG James and Team 3D. That didn't last too long and I feel Eddie acclimitised the best of any of the ship jumpers when he became Latino Heat. He had better chemistry with Chyna than HHH and I thought it helped Eddie get over more as a personality. I can't recall too many great Eddie matches during that time, but I recall Test-Eddie being really enjoyable at Wrestlemania X-7. Just a classic heel performance where Eddie uses the situation to get the better of a much bigger and stronger opponent.

By the time I started watching the WWF on the regular Eddie was long gone. Last I saw he was chasing after Lita and the next he was just off television going through drug issues. Being young, that really turned me off Eddie, I could look at an addict as a role model, so when he stepped to Rob Van Dam I was so disappointed. As I wrote earlier, I had been booking Rob Van Dam's Wrestlemania XIX victory since No Mercy 2001 so to put him in with Eddie was such an insult, especially when they had Eddie go over at Backlash.

I changed my tune after the ladder match on Raw. That was one of the most exciting matches I'd seen up to that point and Eddie gave as good as he got. I grew to really enjoy Eddie as a performer at that time and was really looking forward to his match with Austin before Brock Lesnar had to go and ruin everything. Eddie would then transfer over to SmackDown and every week I'd read about how awesome the SmackDown Six was while I was stuck with HHH on Raw.

When SmackDown eventually returned to Australian airwaves, Eddie was my favourite guy on the roster. I enjoyed the dynamic he brought to the show, he just seemed so chill and made so many adjustments to his in-ring style I bought into him as a main eventer. All it took was a haircut, more up-tempo theme music, a big entrance and the three amigos. Even when SmackDown was obviously rocked by the departure of Brock and injuries to Angle and Show, I actually enjoyed watching that product and was excited to see Eddie face off against Rey Mysterio and team up with RVD to take on the Dudleyz. He went up another level at Judgement Day when he had one of the best brawls I've seen in the WWF - I love how visceral the match is and how secondary the result became, it's just one man sticking up to a bully. I actually saw them wrestle at the Revenge of the Undertaker tour in August of 2004 and they put together some great near-falls. On a show that featured Undertaker-Angle, it was my favourite match.

Unfortunately I made a mistake and didn't vote for Eddie. If I had included him, he would have easily been in my Top 10, possibly around 8th or so. He's one of those guys where if I want to watch good wrestling, I'll throw an Eddie 1995 match on and study it.

Jun 29, 2020 2:06:03 GMT @ness said:

I didn't learn to appreciate Eddy until that photo oddly enough, WM20. 

Jun 29, 2020 4:23:59 GMT RT said:

Eddie was a late cut from my list. He just never clicked with me.

I liked watching his matches, I respected how good he was in the ring, and he had charisma to spare. But I just never cared if he won or lost. And half the time I found his shtick annoying or overbearing.

He makes my top 100 list with ease. Probably even ends up in the 50's somewhere, since I did consider him for my list but he was closer to the bottom and eventually got cut.

Jun 29, 2020 4:38:15 GMT iron maiden said:

Jun 29, 2020 4:23:59 GMT RT said:

I agree with this word for word.

Get outta my head RT it’s scary in here. Save yourself!

Jun 29, 2020 13:35:23 GMT Emperor said:

Jun 29, 2020 4:23:59 GMT RT said:

For years I thought I was literally the only person on PW who didn't worship Eddie Guerrero. I feel exactly as you do. Where were you and IM all these years?

Wow. I never expected Eddie to be such a polarizing figure. Had no idea PW was so lukewarm towards him. Always thought I was the PW low vote on Eddie. I especially agree with the bolded part of RT's post. 

Though "polarizing" might not be the right word after all. He did receive 14 votes and would have received a 15th, bumping him up a spot to #4 if Big Pete had remembered to vote for him.

Gonna C&P my TL;DR take on Eddie in a few minutes. Then drop #4 this evening.

Eddie did make my Big List in the 140s for his awesome Smackdown Six run. That was only time I was really, truly into Eddie.

Also, Eddie or Eddy? What say you, PW? I was introduced to him as Eddy and went with that for the longest time. So I dig Ness still adhering to the old school spelling of his name. Yet I eventually conceded to the WWE way of spelling it Eddie.

WWE always wins. It's WWE spelling or bust.

Like how it'll always be Mysterio over Misterio.

And may god have mercy on the souls of those tards who insist on spelling it "Brett Hart" for whatever unknown reason.

Jun 29, 2020 19:10:14 GMT 🤯 said:

WWE always wins. It's WWE spelling or bust.

Like how it'll always be Mysterio over Misterio.

And may god have mercy on the souls of those tards who insist on spelling it "Brett Hart" for whatever unknown reason.

I think you're on to something here.

The Eddy/Eddie thing repeated itself with Misterio/Mysterio. I went with Misterio for the longest time before eventually bending the knee to the WWE way.

Brett Hart people are instantly ignored.

Shin always spelling it Jeff Jerrett used to drive me up a wall. 

Jerry Lawyer was big among my real life friends in the 90s. That also used to drive me batty. 

Then there was my friend Rick always writing about Thommy's. You know, like Thommy Rich and Thommy Dreamer. 

I should probably start a separate thread for this. 

btw who's this Tazz people speak of?

Eddie Guerrero- Was in the 140s on my Big List primarily for his awesome Smackdown Six/Los Guerreros run in late 2002-early 2003.

Eddie first got on my radar wrestling Chris Benoit in 1995 WCW. I swear they wrestled on one WCW show or another every single week for months. I was not complaining! They were the poster boys for New Style Wrestling. Their matches were innovative, exciting, and filled with moves I had never seen before.

So I was an Eddie Guerrero respecter from Day One. But that's as far as it went. Same story as Jerry Lynn. Enjoyed his wrestling, but he didn't have a hook beyond that. There was nothing to grab me. He was just another white meat babyface. An Armstrong with cooler moves, but still just an Armstrong (or Zenk, if you prefer) in the end.

This went on for about a year. Eddie would have good matches while I would mentally golf clap for him. Beyond the Benoit series, my friends and I all loved this random Nitro match he had with The Barbarian, of all people. Good stuff!

I went off WCW in August '96. Eddie wasn't a guy I kept particularly close tabs on over the next few years. I don't even think I knew he went heel for the longest time. I couldn't imagine Eddie as a bad guy anyway. In my mind he was one of those guys destined to always be a fan favorite.

I legit thought the LWO was a spot on parody created by clever internet dwellers to mock the over proliferation of _WO's in wrestling. Mind blown! When I found out it was actually a real thing. "Are they even trying anymore?"- 1998 Baker

I watched his famous ECW series with Malenko around the time of the LWO. By then I had seen a bunch of New Style Wrestling. So I was actually a bit underwhelmed after all those years of hype, though I'm sure it would have been a different story if I had seen those matches when they originally took place in 1995.

Eddie came to WWF along with the rest of the Radicalz in early 2000. I was excited for two reasons- Losing their best midcard workhorses would surely accelerate the decline of the The Evil Empire. And those guys would be bringing their state of the art wrestling to my beloved WWF. It was win-win in my book. I'll admit to missing those guys during my years-long WCW boycott.

Only it didn't quite workout the way I had expected. Nowadays I can respect Eddie (& Benoit) for immediately adjusting to WWF style by shrinking their once massive movesets and concentrating on just a few trademark spots to pop the crowd. But I hated it at the time. See, I was a movez guy in 2000. Benoit & Eddie had been huge movez guys in 95-96. Now they were....just regular guys. "Where did all the suplexes, bombs, flying, and state of the art submissions go?"- 2000 Baker

Eddie had clearly found some charisma during our time apart. But it was the "wrong kind" of charisma. I found Eddie, much like fellow WCW defector Jericho, highly annoying. He just got on my nerves. Couldn't stand him. Hated the endless Chyna stuff. Eddie quickly became one of my least favorite things about 2000 WWF. Hell, he was one of the only things I didn't like in 2000 WWF. He left the company shortly after Wrestlemania 17 and I can't say I was sad to see him go.

Eddie did the indie thing for a year while getting his life together. Saw his ROH run on tape delay. What really stood out to me about Eddie's run there was just how MASSIVE he was compared to the ROH regulars. He dwarfed them in much the same manner Scott Norton would have dwarfed Eddie back in 95-96 WCW.

Eddie made his way back to WWF immediately following Wrestlemania 18. Then the brand split happened. I distinctly remember fantasy booking an Eddie/D'Lo feud over the Frog Splash with D'Lo going over to begin rebuilding him. That's where I rated Eddie in 2002- a guy doing midcard jobs to D'Lo. I was just a little wrong on this one.

Instead of putting over D'Lo, Eddie got a feud with newly christened IC Champ RVD. This was whatever. Hopefully they'd at least have a good match before RVD won the first feud of his bound-to-be-legendary year+ long IC Title run. WHAT!?!?! Eddie just beat RVD!?!?!?  :@ WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON HERE!?!

Rage! I was appalled. Stupid Eddie Guerrero just defeated RVD?!? Death to WWE!

I can pinpoint the exact moment Eddie finally started clicking with me. It was a few months after the RVD debacle during Eddie's (inexplicable to 2002 me) feud with Steve Austin. They were in a bar. Eddie was sitting by himself in the corner looking shady as can be. In that one moment "King of Sleaze" Eddie Guerrero finally started connecting with me.

Speaking of the "King of Sleaze," it wasn't until 2001 or 2002 that I first saw his famous Halloween Havoc '97 match with Rey. That's definitely a Top 5 WCW match of the 90s in my book.

Eddie then got drafted to Smackdown where he formed an internet dream team alongside Angle & Benoit. I was now officially an Eddie Guerrero Fan. Eddie/Chris/Kurt were the 3 darlings of the 'net, with many calling them the 3 best wrestlers in the world. Eddie and his mates were killing it every week. They triple handedly gave Rey & Edge credibility. Eddie would do the same for Chavo a little while later. Smackdown now became must see tv.

The Holy Trinity had some great tags and 6 man matches. Eddie & Edge had that great No DQ match on the 'down. Los Guerreros were a hoot in skits and a good match machine in the ring. I guess they had done the whole "Lie, Cheat, Steal" thing in WCW, but it was brand new to me, and I lapped it all up. I actually liked Chavo at the time, but Eddie was clearly the star of the duo. Eddie would come up with entertaining new cheats every week. He was a hoot. And even the cool moves were back! The Lasso From El Paso says hello. Eddie was a performer at the top of his game....

For about 8-10 months. I started losing interest when Tajiri subbed in for Chavo. Eddie's shtick just started wearing thin with me around that time. And once again I can pinpoint another exact moment where I turned on a wrestler. Eddie was wrestling either Billy Gunn or Hardcore Holly in the US Title Tournament. They were playing hot potato with a chair....again. I think I actually yelled at my TV "Just hit the guy already! It's not funny anymore!" With that, Eddie was back to being "annoying."

Yet his popularity continued to rise with the masses. He beat Brock for the belt. Lots of people loved it. I was conflicted. On one hand, Brock wasn't the champ anymore. So YAY! On the other hand, it didn't sit well with me that Eddie got the belt outta nowhere before Benoit when Benoit's quest for a world title had been the defining part of his character for nearly 3 years.

Throw in my natural predilection to root against top babyfaces, and I was back to being an Eddie hater. I realize this sounds insane coming from me of all people, but I also found him "too hammy." Whatever though. The people loved him. The only other post-Attitude Era wrestlers to equal his popularity are late 2000s Jeff Hardy, mid 2010s Daniel Bryan, and I guess maybe CM Punk in....whenever he was red hot.

I was initially intrigued by Eddie's heel turn on Rey. The actual turn was great. Evil Eddie had great potential after years of being a hammy babyface. But the Dominic stuff and lack of movez compared to their 90s matches left me feeling underwhelmed.

It was a tragic day in wrestling history when Eddie Guerrero passed away at only 38. History changes in so many ways if Eddie doesn't die young. But that's an even longer post for another day....

RIP Eddie Guerrero

Mysterio and Eddie were being used by WCW at Halloween Havoc '97.



I can't say whether they were consistent in those spellings though. This is the company that did this at Clash VI after all.