Wow. Respect to Foley. He is ahead of a lot of legends.

But this motherfucker CM Punk still lurks?!?!

Jun 24, 2020 18:18:54 GMT KING KID said:

Wow. Respect to Foley. He is ahead of a lot of legends.

But this motherfucker CM Punk still lurks?!?!

I hope Punk takes #1 at this point.

So do I, and I dislike Punk more than most. It would amuse me.

Hart and Austin are locks for the top 2 spots I think. But CM Punk could be hot on their heels and finish in the top 3.

I don’t think he does but I could see him finishing ahead of Jericho, Bryan, and even Eddie.

Least we can take solace in knowing Punk never main evented Mania.

I was the high vote on Foley. No update tonight. Digging RT's predictions. Anybody else want to hazard a guess?

Fuck I'm going crazy here.

#1 Bryan
#2 Austin
#3 Eddy
#4 Bret
#5 Punk
#6 Jericho

1. Bret
2. Austin
3. Jericho
4. Bryan
5. Eddy
6. Punk

I so wanted to leave Punk off but I can't think of another legit contender for the top 6.

Jun 25, 2020 2:01:13 GMT Shootist said:

1. Bret
2. Austin
3. Jericho
4. Bryan
5. Eddy
6. Punk

I so wanted to leave Punk off but I can't think of another legit contender for the top 6.

Here's a couple clues 

Hooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

U-S-A, U-S-A, U-S-A

2X4

tough guy

Hooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

How fitting... looks like I somehow didn't see/overlooked both Taker & Foley, just like I tend to overlook their infamous KOTR 1998 HIAC!

Looking back at my list, Mick totally missed it... just like Flair. WHOOPS! So guess I'll spare yinz my thoughts on Mrs. Foley's Baby Boy.

23 .) The Undertaker
I think he debuted on one of my birthdays, so will always hold a fondness for him in my heart based solely on that. LOVED his original Deadman run. LOVED his face turn even more. LOVED when he started to wrestle more in 1996 and 1997. LOVED the first part of the Kane storyline, culminating with the WMXIV match. Started losing be a bit as he became Satan Incarnate and injuries started to mount. The Ministry of Darkness is ripe for rebooking/revisionist history. Don't fault Taker at all for wanting to peace out in late 1999.

LOVED his return as the American Bad Ass. Felt like I'm one of few who preferred/prefer this incarnation over others. Of course preferred the Kid Rock theme over the Limp Bizkit theme, but even the Limp Bizkit theme wasn't bad per se. Then his in-house produced stuff later on was honestly just as fun too. Loved the motorcycle gimmick, and loved how he was really able to open up on the mic and in the ring. Produced some of his greatest work IMO during his ABA/Big Evil run.

It admittedly felt like he was losing steam again in late 2003, and I was excited by the novelty of the Deadman's return. Execution sadly wasn't nearly as good as expectation. In hindsight, I wish they'd gone with more of a ABA/Deadman hybrid a la Ghost Rider. Also, if I'm rebooking (and thus giving myself the proper Brock/Benoit blow-off at WMXX), Ghost Rider Taker probably ends up being the SmackDown talent shunted to RAW. Just feels like he fits the sports entertainment vibe of the Red Brand, and he'd be offering a fresh credible face to go up against Evolution in the wake of Goldberg fucking off.

As has been noted... tuned out of WWE following WMXX so missed a lot of Taker's stuff in real time including his heralded WM matches with Orton and Batista, his NWO06 instant classic with Kurt, and his monster mashes with Mark Henry, Great Khali, Show, and Kane revisited. Popped back in for a bit to catch his WM matches with Edge, HBK x2, and the first HHH rematch. But then popped back out after his TLC match against Edge. Was almost legit convinced that was his retirement/sendoff. Missed the End of an Era, and heard he dabbled with Punk too.

By the time Brock brought me somewhat back into the fold, the only thing I really wanted to see was the next evolution of the Brock/Taker feud after their real life interaction in the UFC audience. Boy, did they deliver. WM30 probably should've been it for Taker. Or they should've reshuffled his match order. It's a shame we didn't get a good Taker/Bray match. It's probably an even greater shame we didn't get a good Taker/Cena match. And it's a shame we got zero Taker/Sting match. Could've maybe found a way to eek those out before having Brock kill Taker off for good? The Shane match was upsetting nonsense, as was the Roman match... and I don't even know what else Taker has done besides tarnish his legacy with his SaudiArabiaMania work. At least the Boneyard Match was awesome and a great way to end things if that truly is THE END.

In hindsight, I'm wondering if the streak looks better in its last years if it goes like this:
- WM20: Deadman Taker returns to vanquish unmasked Kane
- WM21: Legend Taker defeats Legend Killer Orton
- WM22: Taker defeats Kurt in a Submission Match... perhaps for the WHC?
- WM23: Taker defeats Batista for the WHC
- WM24: Taker defeats Edge for the WHC
- WM25: Taker defeats HBK x1
- WM26: Taker defeats HBK x2 with Streak vs. Career stakes
- WM27: Taker defeats HHH in a rematch ten years in the making, with HHH seeking to avenge HBK... and winning the war despite losing the battle
- WM28: Taker defeats HHH in an End of an Era with HBK as special guest ref
- WM29: Taker defeats John Cena (with Rock/Brock II for the WWE title as the co-main event)
- WM30: Taker defeats a healthy, more relevant Bray Wyatt
- WM31: Taker defeats Sting in a clash of old icons of a bygone era
- WM32: Brock defeats Taker to finally end the Streak... maybe this is the second Brock/Taker HIAC (instead of having it at a B-grade themed PPV)
- WM33: No Taker to sell the "what if" re: if he's truly done and gone
- WM34: Taker returns in a "run-in" capacity to cost Brock the title to Roman as payback for ending the Streak
- WM35: Taker now just becomes a Phantom of the Opera-style ghost, haunting WrestleMania. Here he interrupts an Elias performance to end it with a chokeslam/Tombstone combo.
- WM36: Taker social-distances and abstains from partaking. Officially announces his retirement. Partakes in a kayfabe-breaking documentary series.

Jun 25, 2020 17:32:07 GMT 🤯 said:

How fitting... looks like I somehow didn't see/overlooked both Taker & Foley, just like I tend to overlook their infamous KOTR 1998 HIAC!

Looking back at my list, Mick totally missed it... just like Flair. WHOOPS! So guess I'll spare yinz my thoughts on Mrs. Foley's Baby Boy.

23 .) The Undertaker
I think he debuted on one of my birthdays, so will always hold a fondness for him in my heart based solely on that. LOVED his original Deadman run. LOVED his face turn even more. LOVED when he started to wrestle more in 1996 and 1997. LOVED the first part of the Kane storyline, culminating with the WMXIV match. Started losing be a bit as he became Satan Incarnate and injuries started to mount. The Ministry of Darkness is ripe for rebooking/revisionist history. Don't fault Taker at all for wanting to peace out in late 1999.

LOVED his return as the American Bad Ass. Felt like I'm one of few who preferred/prefer this incarnation over others. Of course preferred the Kid Rock theme over the Limp Bizkit theme, but even the Limp Bizkit theme wasn't bad per se. Then his in-house produced stuff later on was honestly just as fun too. Loved the motorcycle gimmick, and loved how he was really able to open up on the mic and in the ring. Produced some of his greatest work IMO during his ABA/Big Evil run.

It admittedly felt like he was losing steam again in late 2003, and I was excited by the novelty of the Deadman's return. Execution sadly wasn't nearly as good as expectation. In hindsight, I wish they'd gone with more of a ABA/Deadman hybrid a la Ghost Rider. Also, if I'm rebooking (and thus giving myself the proper Brock/Benoit blow-off at WMXX), Ghost Rider Taker probably ends up being the SmackDown talent shunted to RAW. Just feels like he fits the sports entertainment vibe of the Red Brand, and he'd be offering a fresh credible face to go up against Evolution in the wake of Goldberg fucking off.

As has been noted... tuned out of WWE following WMXX so missed a lot of Taker's stuff in real time including his heralded WM matches with Orton and Batista, his NWO06 instant classic with Kurt, and his monster mashes with Mark Henry, Great Khali, Show, and Kane revisited. Popped back in for a bit to catch his WM matches with Edge, HBK x2, and the first HHH rematch. But then popped back out after his TLC match against Edge. Was almost legit convinced that was his retirement/sendoff. Missed the End of an Era, and heard he dabbled with Punk too.

By the time Brock brought me somewhat back into the fold, the only thing I really wanted to see was the next evolution of the Brock/Taker feud after their real life interaction in the UFC audience. Boy, did they deliver. WM30 probably should've been it for Taker. Or they should've reshuffled his match order. It's a shame we didn't get a good Taker/Bray match. It's probably an even greater shame we didn't get a good Taker/Cena match. And it's a shame we got zero Taker/Sting match. Could've maybe found a way to eek those out before having Brock kill Taker off for good? The Shane match was upsetting nonsense, as was the Roman match... and I don't even know what else Taker has done besides tarnish his legacy with his SaudiArabiaMania work. At least the Boneyard Match was awesome and a great way to end things if that truly is THE END.

In hindsight, I'm wondering if the streak looks better in its last years if it goes like this:
- WM20: Deadman Taker returns to vanquish unmasked Kane
- WM21: Legend Taker defeats Legend Killer Orton
- WM22: Taker defeats Kurt in a Submission Match... perhaps for the WHC?
- WM23: Taker defeats Batista for the WHC
- WM24: Taker defeats Edge for the WHC
- WM25: Taker defeats HBK x1
- WM26: Taker defeats HBK x2 with Streak vs. Career stakes
- WM27: Taker defeats HHH in a rematch ten years in the making, with HHH seeking to avenge HBK... and winning the war despite losing the battle
- WM28: Taker defeats HHH in an End of an Era with HBK as special guest ref
- WM29: Taker defeats John Cena (with Rock/Brock II for the WWE title as the co-main event)
- WM30: Taker defeats a healthy, more relevant Bray Wyatt
- WM31: Taker defeats Sting in a clash of old icons of a bygone era
- WM32: Brock defeats Taker to finally end the Streak... maybe this is the second Brock/Taker HIAC (instead of having it at a B-grade themed PPV)
- WM33: No Taker to sell the "what if" re: if he's truly done and gone
- WM34: Taker returns in a "run-in" capacity to cost Brock the title to Roman as payback for ending the Streak
- WM35: Taker now just becomes a Phantom of the Opera-style ghost, haunting WrestleMania. Here he interrupts an Elias performance to end it with a chokeslam/Tombstone combo.
- WM36: Taker social-distances and abstains from partaking. Officially announces his retirement. Partakes in a kayfabe-breaking documentary series.

Now I've got myself thinking about the entirety of Taker's streak and pondering the what-if's if he hadn't missed WMX and WM2000. Who would his opponents have been, what would his streak have ultimately tallied? So let's do it!

- WM07, 1-0: Rookie monster heel Taker defeats the legendary Superfly Snuka.
- WM08, 2-0: Freshly turned face Taker defeats former nefarious ally Jake the Snake.
- WM09, 3-0: Taker defeats Bam Bam via DQ in Monster Mash Vol. 1 after Bigelow throws a fireball in the Deadman's face.
- WM10, 4-0: Taker defeats IRS in a "Death vs. Taxes" match.
- WM11, 5-0: Taker defeats Ted DiBiase's Million Dollar Corporation team of IRS, Bam Bam, and King Kong Bundy in a Grave Consequences Gauntlet Match (detailed elsewhere in this thread, I think). Having tangled with Taker individually at the previous two Manias, Bam Bam and IRS try warning Bundy not to take Taker too lightly. Bundy's hubris ends up costing the MDC the win, and they're forced to file for bankruptcy as a result. Despite defeating three opponents, WWF only counts this as one victory in the Streak count.
- WM12, 6-0: Taker defeats Diesel.
- WM13, 7-0: Taker defeats Sid for the WWF title (or Vader... or Mankind... or Shawn... TBD based on the rest of the card)
- WM14, 8-0: Face Taker defeats Heel Kane.
- WM15, 9-0: Heel Taker defeats a better-booked, more well-protected Face Kane in HIAC thanks to outside interference from a better version of the Ministry of Darkness.
- WM16, 10-0: The Brothers of Destruction defeat DX (X-Pac, Road Dogg & Billy Gunn) in a handicap match. A Decade of Destruction is coined.
- WM17, 11-0: ABA Taker defeats Triple H (1-0 against Evolution).
- WM18, 12-0: Heel Big Evil Taker defeats Ric Flair (2-0 against Evolution).
- WM19, 13-0: Face Big Evil Taker defeats Big Show a decade after the first Monster Mash.
- WM20, 14-0: Deadman Taker returns to squash unmasked Kane.
- WM21, 15-0: Legendary Taker defeats Legend Killer Randy Orton (3-0 against Evolution).
- WM22, 16-0: Taker defeats Kurt Angle for the WHC in a Submission Match after their inconclusive classic at No Way Out.
- WM23, 17-0: Taker defeats Batista for the WHC (4-0 against Evolution).
- WM24, 18-0: Taker defeats Edge for the WHC in a "Streak vs. Streak" encounter.
- WM25, 19-0: Taker defeats HBK... either for the first time at a Mania, or in a long-awaited rematch if we decide to have them clash at WM13.
- WM26, 20-0: Taker defeats HBK to end HBK's career after HBK puts it on the line to prevent Taker from getting to 20-0. SAD! But... Decade of Destruction DOUBLED!
- WM27, 21-0: Taker defeats HHH a decade after their first Mania match. HHH, seeking to avenge BFF HBK loses the battle but wins the war.
- WM28, 22-0: Taker defeats HHH in the End of an Era HIAC with HBK as special guest referee.
- WM29, 23-0: Taker defeats John Cena, handing Cena his second big gut check loss in a row at back-to-back Manias after Cena lost to Rock in Once in a Lifetime the previous year. Cena FINALLY turns heel after the match by attacking Taker.
- WM30, 24-0: Taker defeats "new face of fear" Bray despite outside interference from the Wyatt Family.
- WM31, 25-0: Taker defeats Sting in an "Icon vs. Icon" clash of the titans to usher in a Quarter Century of Destruction.
- WM32, 26-0: Taker defeats Rock in record time. After not being advertised for a match, rumors abound that Taker had quietly retired after getting to 25-0. Rock makes a surprise appearance, beetlejuices Taker into an appearance for an impromptu match... and instead of Rock randomly squashing Erick Rowan, Taker squashes Rock to add another HUGE name to the tombstones.
- WM33, 27-0: Taker defeats Roman Reigns after Big Dog calls out Taker to prove this is now HIS yard. Fans, fearing Roman's push, think this might be the end of the Streak... but thankfully IT ISN'T!
- WM34, 28-0: Taker defeats Braun Strowman because neither have anything better to do.
- WM35, 29-0: Taker defeats Kurt Angle in Kurt's last match. Or, otherwise, feed Baron Corbin or Drew McIntyre or maybe even "The Demon" Finn Balor to Taker? Who cares, we're closing in on THREE DECADES OF DESTRUCTION, BABAY!!~
- WM36, 29-1: Brock defeats Taker to retain the world title and end the Streak.

No update tonight. Tomorrow night for sure.

Nobody correctly guessed the order of the Top 6.

I thought Shootist had it. Maybe Austin is #1? I think KING KID might explode is Punk is #1 so that might be fun.

Punk being #1 would make perfect sense for Baker to leave PW for a while. Dude's gonna get murdered.

3. Mick Foley (#7)- I was the high vote for Mick. He's a strong contender for greatest babyface and greatest mic worker I ever saw. He's also the GOAT bumper. Dude was fearless. He could be hilarious or get so serious it was borderline scary. It may sound corny, but I always felt a connection with Mick from the sit down interviews with JR on. Reading his trend-setting book also helped. He was my favorite wrestler (aside from Taz and maybe RVD slipping in for a week here and there) from Survivor Series 98 to No Way Out 2000 when that jerk HHH forced him into retirement. Mick excelled as the lovable loser I always wanted to see win the big one. And then he did. Hooray!

My intro to Cactus came during his 1990(?) NWA run. This is something I completely forgot about until reading Mick's first book where I was like "Oh yeah, I do remember Cactus reading that book." I also must have caught him during my rare Global viewings because I vaguely remembered his stable (The Cartel), though not Cactus himself. I also recall my friend Greg doing his "Bang Bang" taunt at soccer practice in 1992. I once asked him "What's up with the gun thing?" He responded with something like *eyeroll* "Cactus Jack! Hello! I thought you were a wrestling fan?"

Cactus first got over with me not long after I finally found WCW on my tv again in early 1993. I had been watching for a few a months when he entered into a mini-feud with WCW Champion Vader. Cactus beat Vader! Awesome! But the next week saw Jack get powerbombed on the floor. WCW did a great job of selling this angle. Really made it seem like a big deal. Dare I say it was like an early version of the Shawn/Owen concussion angle? I was all in on this feud, and all in on Cactus as my new babyface hero. Desperately wanted to see him win the belt from that jerk Vader. But first Cactus was out for a few months to sell the injury. Then WCW started airing these bizarre vignettes of Cactus as an amnesiac homeless person lost on the streets of Cleveland. This really happened!  And I loved it! OK, I guess it was a little weird. But I didn't even care. Because Cactus Jack was back, baby! Cactus/Vader at Halloween Havoc 93 is Top 5 when it comes to WCW matches I was most hyped for. Unfortunately, Cactus lost. This would be a recurring theme throughout his career. 

Then he formed a very cool, very badass tag team with Maxx Payne. They were something different. There was nobody else in mainstream wrestling like those two nutters. I was into their feud with the stupid Nasty Boys. Unfortunately, Cactus soon downgraded partners by swapping Maxx Payne for Kevin Sullivan. The Cactus & Partner vs. Nastys matches were basically ECW in a WCW ring. Years later I would watch those matches and thought they were great. Better than 99% of ECW tags, in fact. I would also catch the famous Cactus/Vader and Cactus/Sting PPV matches in later years. 

Cactus was a Top 2 or 3 WCW fave for me in 93-94. Yet he left not with a bang (bang) but a whimper. As was usually the case in those days, out of sight, out of mind. 

I rediscovered Cactus via the Apter Mags in late 95. I hadn't thought about him since he left WCW. He had only been out of my life for a year. But it felt much longer. Soon after that he started appearing in the Mankind vignettes on WWF tv. I was usually terrible at noticing wrestlers in new gimmicks. But Cactus=Mankind was obvious. Cactus was very unique. No way I would confuse him for anybody else.

Mankind was....alright. I liked some things he did. The early Mandible Claw inducing vomit was disgusting, but cool. I liked how he had separate intro and outro music. That was a nice touch. The Undertaker feud was....pretty cool. But I wasn't super into it or anything. Though it did have some cool moments- Bearer leaving Taker after 6 years to go with Mankind.....Mankind going head first through a table during their IYH April 97 match. What a bump! The Michaels match was an instant classic. Yet one I didn't have much anticipation to watch due to the outcome seeming like a foregone conclusion. Early Mankind never fully clicked with me. He was more like a "pretty cool" 3rd tier fave. 

WWF Foley really clicked with me during the sit down interviews with JR. There was no going back after that. Foley was a made man in my book. My friend Brandon and I were gaga about those segments. I had never seen anything like them before. Foley skyrocketed into my Top 5 and became unbooable. We absolutely copied Foley's roof dive by jumping off the (sort of) low addition roof into our pool. I don't know whether that's more or less dangerous than Foley's stunt  :lol:

The debut of Dude Love was a massive markout moment. Put it this way. The Dude was teaming with the hated Steve Austin. They beat the beloved Owen & Bulldog. And I wasn't even that upset! Dude Love was soooo great. Ow! Have Mercy!

The HHH feud was just a fun, classic good guy vs. bad guy thing with me reacting accordingly. Loved their MSG match where Cactus Jack character finally debuted in WWF.

Having the Three Faces of Foley in the 1998 Rumble was another classic moment. Then came the awesome Hardcore Legends tag team with Terry Funk. Talk about an unbooable tandem! I was super into their feud with those dastardly New Age Outlaws. I am also probably the high vote on their 'Mania Dumpster Match. 

Then tragedy struck. Foley turned heel. Wtf? I was genuinely upset by this. "How do they expect me to boo Mick Foley? How do they expect ANYBODY to boo Mick Foley?"- 1998 Baker

Yet somehow, some way, it worked out well enough. Foley was entertaining as McMahon's corporate puppet. That segment where Mick sported false teeth and a ponytail was *chef's kiss*. He had a good match with Austin at one PPV and then a sports entertainment masterpiece at the next PPV. His Raw brawl with Funk is a Top 10 Raw match for me. 

Then came the iconic Hell In A Cell match with Taker featuring those bumps. That was the damnedest thing I had ever seen. Foley was indeed God. Speaking of Foley being God, he was neck and neck with boring Benoit as the internet's favorite wrestler. In an early example of internet culture jamming, so many wrestling fans voted for Mick Foley in Time's Man of the Year poll that FAKE NEWS Time scrapped the whole thing and started over. Then we just voted Foley #1 a second time. It was so overwhelming that names like MICK FOLEY, mick foley, and even McFoley also cracked the Top 10-20 in their case sensitive poll. Good times.

Anyway, loved all the McMahon/Foley interactions. That was wrestling comedy done right. 1998 was also my first exposure to Cactus in ECW. I'm actually far from an ECW Cactus completest. I've almost certainly missed more ECW Cactus than I've seen. Highlights include the sloppy, but still awesome, match with Sabu, and his farewell match with Mikey Whipwreck, which is extremely underrated in ECW (wrestling?) lore. The match itself was good/great. The post-match stuff with Stevie & Meanie was even more glorious.

I also saw his infamous "bomb" match with Terry Funk in Japan around this time. That was huge among tape traders. Almost every wrestling fan of my generation who delved into Japanese wrestling was introduced to it through either the 1994 J Cup, or the 1995 IWA King of Death Match. The Funk/Foley bomb match honestly kinda sucked though. 

Back in real time, Foley officially became my new favorite wrestler when he got screwed over by The Rock and the McMahon's at Survivor Series 98. Rock had been my favorite wrestler going into the show. But I was rooting for Mick during their match, and was gutted when he lost. 

Then came the big one. Foley wins the title! Hooray! #1 markout moment of all time. Nobody ever deserved it more. This is around the time where Mick became my ideal WWF superstar. Not necessarily in terms of being hardcore and looking like a hobo. More so the way he worked his way up the ranks through blood, sweat, and tears. Mick Foley had True Grit.

He traded the title with The Rock a few times before honestly spending much of 1999 coasting. Not that it mattered to me. Mick was teflon by this point. Then came the entertaining Rock & Sock Connection and Mick's best selling autobiography, which somehow made me an even bigger Foley fan than I had already been since now I felt like I "knew" him.

Then came his epic feud with Triple H. Their Rumble match is my favorite singles bout of all time and #2 match overall. That match made HHH. Foley & Trips were also involved in some great segments and multi-man tags. And finally Hell In A Cell. Title vs. Career. I must have heard the rumors of Foley retiring. But I didn't believe them. He was as hot as he'd ever been. He had even become a quasi-mainstream celebrity, appearing on a bunch of talk shows to peddle his book. I was convinced Mick would take the title from Trips. But this story did not have a happy ending. Triple H pinned him 1-2-3 in the middle of the ring. I was gutted. It was still real to me when Foley was involved. I gave Mick a standing ovation....alone....in my basement. 

Then he came back 6 weeks later only to lose at Wrestlemania. That was stupid. Commissioner Foley had some fun comedy segments. He was rumored to come out of retirement for a Battle of Commissioners with Regal, of all people, but nothing ever came of it. He wrote a few more books. The 2nd was alright, but suffered from the law of diminishing returns.

He returned to the ring in 2004 to do for Orton what he had once done for Triple H. With the possible exception of RNN, the Foley feud/Backlash match is the highlight of Orton's career. He'd also show up from time to time in ROH. I saw him live at least once at an ROH Philly show. A few years later Mick would return once again to give Edge the rub in vintage Foley fashion. He also played a role in the early days of WWECW and had a feud with Flair which failed to live up to admittedly lofty expectations, what with them being my favorite and 3rd favorite wrestler of all time.

After that Foley was weirdly treated as just another guy. I think he came back for another Rumble, but did little of note before being eliminated by.....Carlito(?) or some other ultimately failed midcarder. Then he did some commentary work before going to TNA. I don't think I have seen a single Mick Foley TNA match.

OK, so he ultimately went out with a whimper after initially going out with a massive bang bang. BUT he did give Orton & Edge huge rubs after his first retirement. Foley also had the highest batting average when it came to match quality of any 2000s WWF wrestler. He only wrestled a handful of matches with quite a few of them being classics.

I'm pleased with Slick Mick's #7 ranking. I had a sneaking suspicion he would fall out of the Top 10 for a variety of reasons. Good to know the denizens of PW still love and respect Mrs. Foley's baby boy. Have a nice day! 

#6 CM Punk
13 Votes- 490 Points
High Vote: #2
Last Time: #4

The best thing Punk ever did was let Brock carry him through a decently entertaining match at SummerSlam.

CM Punk being a GOAT-caliber wrestler is even more of a mindblower to me than Jericho being a GOAT-caliber wrestler. Also surprising that he barely dropped at all, unlike other guys who have dropped off the radar over the past few years, such as Taker.

The only thing Punk is truly great at is promos. He's sloppy and mediocre in the ring. Not a great look. No particularly good moves, apart from the one he took from the true GOAT, KENTA. Foley is one of the best promos of all time, but he also had the unique in-ring style, the historic matches, the characters, the creativity, the ability to be intimidating and lovable and everything in between. Punk's just a phenomenal talker, whose only strength in character is being the guy with the chip on his shoulder.

All credit to Punk though. He used his strengths to the absolute maximum and won the crowds over. He leveraged his gift of the gab and the chip on his shoulder into some of the most iconic and memorable segments of the 2000s. Most notably the Summer of Punk storyline with John Cena, featuring the New York Yankees promo, and plenty of other great moments.

Honestly, I struggle to recall anything else Punk did that was truly exceptional. Just that lightning in a bottle three months (or however long it was) with Cena. The rest of his career was a tapestry of average-ness with the occasional great match thrown in there. Maybe I'm willfully misremembering because I don't like the guy very much, but I'm intrigued to see what his supporters have to say.

You cannot deny Punk had something. Among all the indy guys that Cena faced off with he was the only one that actually got chants in the dual. Instead of Cena Sucks they would say CM Punk. I want to believe that was a big reason why he was relevant for so long when others were just flavors of the month.

Dude really did have some terrible looks though. String hair and basketball shorts was as indy as it gets, but even in WWE he had some questionable choices. Still the dude was an excellent talker and despite being kinda sloppy he still managed a really good catalog of stuff.

He, like RVD only spent a few years in their pre-WWE fed and yet people still cling to those days even if he had long since moved past them into bigger and better matches, promos and moments. Obviously without them he would just be a short order cook at Waffle House. The Joe series, Raven stuff, THIS. IS. STRAIGHT EDGE. The Summer of Punk. He did so much in such a short period of time, but still I think he did superior stuff in the E (OVW, WWECW and the main roster).

I wasn't paying attention last time so I'm surprised at the "he'd better not" remarks since he did even better. It's a little high, but certainly among all the more modern guys he left his mark like no one else. People still chant CM Punk to this day, or would if ya know...

Jun 27, 2020 14:05:08 GMT Emperor said:

CM Punk being a GOAT-caliber wrestler is even more of a mindblower to me than Jericho being a GOAT-caliber wrestler. Also surprising that he barely dropped at all, unlike other guys who have dropped off the radar over the past few years, such as Taker.

The only thing Punk is truly great at is promos. He's sloppy and mediocre in the ring. Not a great look. No particularly good moves, apart from the one he took from the true GOAT, KENTA. Foley is one of the best promos of all time, but he also had the unique in-ring style, the historic matches, the characters, the creativity, the ability to be intimidating and lovable and everything in between. Punk's just a phenomenal talker, whose only strength in character is being the guy with the chip on his shoulder.

All credit to Punk though. He used his strengths to the absolute maximum and won the crowds over. He leveraged his gift of the gab and the chip on his shoulder into some of the most iconic and memorable segments of the 2000s. Most notably the Summer of Punk storyline with John Cena, featuring the New York Yankees promo, and plenty of other great moments.

Honestly, I struggle to recall anything else Punk did that was truly exceptional. Just that lightning in a bottle three months (or however long it was) with Cena. The rest of his career was a tapestry of average-ness with the occasional great match thrown in there. Maybe I'm willfully misremembering because I don't like the guy very much, but I'm intrigued to see what his supporters have to say.

I agree with all of this post.

I will say though, and I think I'd say the same for Jericho, that Punk had a lot more good matches than he had any right to given how sloppy he was at the basics. I would perhaps even throw John Cena into the same category. He could tell a story and is one of only a few truly unique characters in modern wrestling history.

As for why he placed so high, well it's a favorites list so we can't be too critical. But Punk always seemed to possess this Manson-esque charisma that led people to feel not only like they were fans of Punk, but that they were contributing to the progression of his ideas and his rebellion. He was a cult of personality. I don't really like Phil Brooks (does anybody?) but his influence can't be questioned and he remains one of the more interesting characters in these sanitised times.

Punk was a very good worker at times and did manage to overcome his clear physical limitations for the most part. I can't believe that anyone who worked with him in a jiu jitsu or MMA gym genuinely thought he wasn't going to get absolutely battered in the UFC. With his lack of natural athleticism, even with access to elite trainers, I don't know if I'd back him against the top guys in local amateur clubs. Just fighting such an uphill battle. Technical prowess is the least important thing to me for a wrestler, although he did expose himself more than others who lack that, by trying to work intricate sequences and athletic spots.

Jun 27, 2020 14:05:08 GMT Emperor said:

CM Punk being a GOAT-caliber wrestler is even more of a mindblower to me than Jericho being a GOAT-caliber wrestler.

I have been genuinely surprised to see people recently taking about Jericho as maybe the Greatest Ever or even as a contender. Not that this is shitting on him, but I'll get this out the way (since he was brought up) before his placement, where those who voted for him can praise in peace.

I think Jericho is either the worst great in-ring worker or the best good in-ring worker. I'd probably say he might be the worst great promo or the best good promo as well. He maxes out at a certain level for me. He might have a few **** matches but that's it. He might have a few really good promos. He is top of the middle or bottom of the top. He always used to get lumped in with Benoit and Eddie, when he is not on their level as a worker. He was never near as unathletic as Punk, but he did try to work beyond his abilities at times and it showed. He's a 7/10 who was 8/10 on his best days.

I love Strobe.

All this CM Punk and Chris Jericho bashing just confirms what I’ve known for years: you’re all on this board because everyone in real life is sick of listening to you be wrong all the time.

I was the high vote for CM Punk, and it should be no secret who I put at #1.

Y’all think Ric Flair was the GOAT because he was good in the 70s. You want to talk about guys that got over for being a decent promo and mediocre in the ring? Look no further.

Hogan had two moves but because he was a good promo and good at selling breakfast cereal everyone worships the ground he walks on.

Who else? Hart? Sure, excellent in the ring, maybe the best ever. But he made Lance Storm promos look like a Game of Thrones episode. And he whines more than CM Punk ever did even now! He retired 20 years ago! Shut up already!

CM Punk has plenty of faults but he deserves to be held in high regard. I won’t make an argument for him being the GOAT because he isn’t (Jericho is). But he was a huge reason ROH was a success, he carried the WWE on his shoulders for years, and his long title run with Paul Heyman at his side is one of the best things the WWE has ever done.

Get outta my face.

Did CM Punk'd submit a list?

Jun 27, 2020 19:55:16 GMT 🤯 said:

Did CM Punk'd submit a list?

I didn't.  Sorry about that.  My head goes so many different ways, that my list can change on an instant.

Kind of fitting he got posted today, because it’s the 9th anniversary of this:

www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/hgpf8b/on_this_day_9_years_ago_cm_punk_dropped_his/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

Jun 27, 2020 19:52:10 GMT RT said:

All this CM Punk and Chris Jericho bashing just confirms what I’ve known for years: you’re all on this board because everyone in real life is sick of listening to you be wrong all the time.

I was the high vote for CM Punk, and it should be no secret who I put at #1.

Y’all think Ric Flair was the GOAT because he was good in the 70s. You want to talk about guys that got over for being a decent promo and mediocre in the ring? Look no further.

Hogan had two moves but because he was a good promo and good at selling breakfast cereal everyone worships the ground he walks on.

Who else? Hart? Sure, excellent in the ring, maybe the best ever. But he made Lance Storm promos look like a Game of Thrones episode. And he whines more than CM Punk ever did even now! He retired 20 years ago! Shut up already!

CM Punk has plenty of faults but he deserves to be held in high regard. I won’t make an argument for him being the GOAT because he isn’t (Jericho is). But he was a huge reason ROH was a success, he carried the WWE on his shoulders for years, and his long title run with Paul Heyman at his side is one of the best things the WWE has ever done.

Get outta my face.

What he said!

I had CM Punk at #9 and I don’t regret it. For years the only thing interesting going on in the E is what Punk was doing. Is he the best in the ring...nope, but I think we’ve long established that in ring skills alone does not a favourite Wrestler make. The man still gets cheers years after he left. That’s not by accident, that’s someone who made an impact.

Jun 27, 2020 19:52:10 GMT RT said:

All this CM Punk and Chris Jericho bashing just confirms what I’ve known for years: you’re all on this board because everyone in real life is sick of listening to you be wrong all the time.

:lol:

Love this quote, even though I am a target.

You're right of course. Almost all highly successful wrestlers have lacked many of the ingredients but still succeeded. It's just a matter of working out a winning formula that works out for you. Hogan being the quintessential example. All credit to CM Punk for reaching the top of the mountain and winning the hearts of millions. He did something that very, very few wrestlers have done, and he deserves credit for it.

Jun 27, 2020 19:19:11 GMT 🤯 said:

I love Strobe.

Needed to be said. Dude is the best poster we've seen on these forums bar none.