UT 

Offence

QB - Patrick Mahomes 

RB - Alvin Kamara 

WR - Davante Adams 

WR - TY Hilton 

WR - Keenan Allen 

TE - Hunter Henry 

LT - Ronnie Stanley 

LG - Quenton Nelson 

C - Ryan Kelly 

RG - Larry Warford 

RT - Bryan Bulaga 

Defence

DE - Danielle Hunter 

DE - Demarcus Lawrence 

DT - Kenny Clark 

DT - Brandon Williams 

LB - Von Miller 

LB - Roquan Smith 

LB - Fred Warner 

CB - Marshon Lattimore 

CB - Marlon Humphrey 

S - Kevin Byard 

S - Earl Thomas 

Special Teams

K - Matt Prater 

P - Bryan Anger 

KR - Mecole Hardman

Todd 

Offence

QB - Deshaun Watson 

RB - Nick Chubb 

WR - Chris Godwin 

WR - Terry McLaurin 

WR - Tyler Lockett 

TE - Tyler Higbee 

LT - David Bakhtiari 

LG - Ali Marpet 

C - Jason Kelce 

RG - Brandon Scherff 

RT - Laremy Tunsil 

Defence

DE - JJ Watt 

DE - Jadeveon Clowney 

DT - Akiem Hicks 

DT - Kawann Short 

LB - Darius Leonard 

LB - Lavonte David 

LB - Bernardrick McKinney 

CB - Tre'Davious White 

CB - Denzel Ward 

S - Justin Simmons 

S - Eddie Jackson 

Special Teams

K - Jake Elliott 

P - Tress Way 

PR - Alex Erickson

My biased ass is just mad that Todd drafted Deshaun Watson. He only did that because he knew I couldn’t draft Josh Allen and not get laughed at.

HIS DAY WILL COME. CAM NEWTON BE DAMNED. HE WISHES HE COULD PULL OFF SHORTS AS WELL AS JOSH.

Anyway. I’m not too sure who to pick here but I am leaning UT. Mahomes is crazy good right now. And he’s throwing to great receivers. He’s got a good secondary forcing Watson to want to rush. Is his run defence good enough to stop Watson and let the Mahomes show carry them to victory? LIKE BUFFALO SHOULD HAVE DONE.

The plan when I drew pick 8 in the first round was to centre my offense around pass protection on the offensive line. I knew I wasn't going to be able to get one of the elite quarterbacks so that was the thinking. I think what I ended up with pretty solid. In the end Watson was still on the board which was a nice stroke of luck.

Defensively I got decent balance, interior linemen that can halt the run and good all round linebackers. I would have liked a little more from the pass rush, but in the end it would have been hard to justify leaving Clowney out there for an inferior player. I was extremely happy with the secondary.

UT did a great job. He supplemented Mahomes with high-octane receivers with years of solid play behind them. Defensively I see him similar to the Ravens, maximum effort on every down and playing close to the offense. Tyler Lockett would be critical to my hopes in this match-up, could he open up the field with his post routes and buy the other receivers a yard of separation? I would need to score points for obvious reasons.

Tough draw here.

I've come back to this thread a couple of times this afternoon and I'm still not really sure who to vote for, because these two teams feel very similar to me.

Breaking it down to positions to try and decide:
QB goes to UT
RB is a push
WRs I'm going with Todd just because I think they're more dynamic and fit the QB better
TE just slightly to UT, I think Henry is probably a better player but can't stay healthy, Higbee was amazing at the end of last season but it was a small sample size
OL to Todd 3-2
Defence front seven I think is all very even
CBs I favour Todd
Safeties I'd go UT

Still can't decide. :lol: I might wait and see if UT can convince me with a post like Todd's above. 

I mean , Patrick Mahomes is on another planet right now but I really love the team I put around him. I obviously leaned heavily into the pass with my style on offense - and for my money I have the best left side of the offensive line imaginable to protect Mahomes blindside.

I don't agree with HR on the receivers. Adams is an elite route runner and fits with any quarterback , even Brett Hundley and the anticipation throws between he and Mahomes would be crazy. I drafted TY for his speed on the outside , not quite Tyreke Hill but still one of the best deep threats in the league capable of stretching defenses and taking advantage of Mahomes arm. Keenan Allen would play for Mahomes a lot like Kelce - huge target in the seams and middle of the field coming out of the slot and definitely one of the most consistent slots in the NFL. Henry is athletic as well and could run the other seams , run the flat , or just cross the middle with Allen. And then you can't forget Kamara's talent in this area either , the best receiving back in the NFL without the initials CMC. I drafted him for that reason.

I don't know how anyone could cover Davante running a post corner , T.Y. running a go , Keenan and Henry crossing in the middle with Kamara trailing up the sideline and Mahomes throwing the ball.


On defense my strategy in the front seven was speed everywhere except at tackle , I would rely heavily on Clark and Williams to eat up blockers and allow everyone else to run free. Roquan is possibly the fastest linebacker in football right now as far as pure speed goes. Danielle Hunter is probably the same at edge. And then there is Von Miller just lurking. With my offense my strategy was to amp up the potential pass rush and packages I could use and take someone like Brandon Williams off the field and send Lawrence , Miller and Hunter from every angle. I think the combination of Hunter rushing with Miller blitzing alongside of him would be unblockable my most.

My corners are big and physical and depending on the sites your use , both rate in or around the top five in the league. Humphrey gets seriously overlooked as one of the better corners in the league but the guy can ball and I'd take him over a lot of other 'names' in the NFL right now. They would obviously rely more on the speed at pass rush allowing the disruption they cause at the line to be more effective but even if they don't my I looooove my safeties. Kevin Byard at one point was the best safety in football no one had heard of and the demise of Thomas has been greatly exaggerated. He would provide the leadership and intelligence my defense needs along with still awesome range and the ability to cover.



Now for my matchup with Todd , it's tough because he has the best offensive line in this draft , you could tell being a Texans fan over the years has made him value that position and they would certainly slow down my plans on defense but I do think having Miller as an extra rusher , from either side of the field or anywhere you want to put him could make some splashes. Hopefully. Plus I'd have to have Roquan and his speed spy Watson throughout , which I think would be a fun matchup to watch. Watson is elite but I don't know that he can outrun Smith - unless Smiths youth causes him to take some bad angles that Watson is elite at causing.

Todds front seven is where my biggest advantage is I think. JJ Watt is a hero of mine but he isn't elite off the edge by any means at this point. He would beat Bulaga a time two for sure and then have to catch Mahomes and Clowney just isn't a pass rusher and doesn't scare me one bit. If I was going to run the ball then I'd be in some serious trouble but I'm not McCarthy and would have to exploit what I think is my biggest advantage in letting Mahomes drop back 70 times and survey the defense.

Todds corners are awesome but I still worry they'd have to cover a long time which is a disadvantage against someone like Adams who could run a ton of double moves until he broke one. His safeties would be huge in helping with coverage and deep coverage as well which would leave his linebackers more vulnerable to Allen and Kamara. Now Lavonte Davis is awesome and Leonard is elite so I love his linebackers but they would have a big task in both watching Mahomes running ability and covering underneath. McKinney is a thumper but if he gets matchup up in space with Kamara at all it's game over.

I think it would have to be a higher scoring game but I think my team is more built for a shootout with more focus on pass rush and I could cause of a few turnovers which would ultimately be the difference.

I’m not trying to sound like a dick or disrespect anyone’s team here when I say this but....

.... UT in a landslide.

Neither defense scares me, but even that edge I’d have to give to UT. And even if the game is close, Mahomes has the elite/veteran weapons to win the game.

Jun 30, 2020 13:55:11 GMT UT said:

Todds front seven is where my biggest advantage is I think. JJ Watt is a hero of mine but he isn't elite off the edge by any means at this point. He would beat Bulaga a time two for sure and then have to catch Mahomes and Clowney just isn't a pass rusher and doesn't scare me one bit.

If JJ isn't elite off the edge then who is? Here is a stat that helps to frame JJ's dominance even in 2019:

Win% vs. 2 blockers in 2019:

1. JJ Watt - 29.1%
2. Joey Bosa - 23.1%
3. Melvin Ingram III - 22.5%
4. Nick Bosa - 21.5%
5. Vinny Curry - 20.8%
6. TJ Watt - 19.6%
7. Za'Darius Smith - 19.5%
8. Danielle Hunter - 19.4%
9. Jadeveon Clowney - 18.4%
10. Trey Flowers - 18.0%

If it wasn't such a landslide you could maybe argue it's a cherry-picked stat that doesn't tell the whole story, but look at how far in front of everyone else he is. He is on another level. Just for reference, if you like pressures as a stat, Watt had 24 at 3 per game which would have put him around 5 in the league. You may say that isn't elite, before you realise he was doubled far more than any other DE in the game because of the Texans complete absence of a pass rush anywhere else on the field:

Rushes vs. 2 blockers in 2019 (top ten players in win %)

1. JJ Watt - 127 - 16 per game
2. Trey Flowers - 178 - 12 per game
3. Joey Bosa - 169 - 11 per game
4. Za'Darius Smith - 174 - 11 per game
5. Danielle Hunter - 160 - 10 per game
6. Jadeveon Clowney - 114 - 9 per game
7. Melvin Ingram III - 102 - 8 per game
8. Nick Bosa - 130 - 8 per game
9. Vinny Curry - 106 - 7 per game
10. TJ Watt - 112 - 7 per game

And the other interesting thing is Clowney down there at 9 suggests doubling either of them wouldn't be possible. So even though I admit I'd have liked a little more from the pass rush, I'm happy I got the best edge rusher in football. People are too quick to write the obituary of JJ IMO.

2 Chiefs vs 0 Chiefs.

That’s not really how I made my decision, but it’s all you really need to know.

Jun 30, 2020 19:15:21 GMT Todd said:

Jun 30, 2020 13:55:11 GMT UT said:

Todds front seven is where my biggest advantage is I think. JJ Watt is a hero of mine but he isn't elite off the edge by any means at this point. He would beat Bulaga a time two for sure and then have to catch Mahomes and Clowney just isn't a pass rusher and doesn't scare me one bit.

If JJ isn't elite off the edge then who is? Here is a stat that helps to frame JJ's dominance even in 2019:

Win% vs. 2 blockers in 2019:

1. JJ Watt - 29.1%
2. Joey Bosa - 23.1%
3. Melvin Ingram III - 22.5%
4. Nick Bosa - 21.5%
5. Vinny Curry - 20.8%
6. TJ Watt - 19.6%
7. Za'Darius Smith - 19.5%
8. Danielle Hunter - 19.4%
9. Jadeveon Clowney - 18.4%
10. Trey Flowers - 18.0%

If it wasn't such a landslide you could maybe argue it's a cherry-picked stat that doesn't tell the whole story, but look at how far in front of everyone else he is. He is on another level. Just for reference, if you like pressures as a stat, Watt had 24 at 3 per game which would have put him around 5 in the league. You may say that isn't elite, before you realise he was doubled far more than any other DE in the game because of the Texans complete absence of a pass rush anywhere else on the field:

Rushes vs. 2 blockers in 2019 (top ten players in win %)

1. JJ Watt - 127 - 16 per game
2. Trey Flowers - 178 - 12 per game
3. Joey Bosa - 169 - 11 per game
4. Za'Darius Smith - 174 - 11 per game
5. Danielle Hunter - 160 - 10 per game
6. Jadeveon Clowney - 114 - 9 per game
7. Melvin Ingram III - 102 - 8 per game
8. Nick Bosa - 130 - 8 per game
9. Vinny Curry - 106 - 7 per game
10. TJ Watt - 112 - 7 per game

And the other interesting thing is Clowney down there at 9 suggests doubling either of them wouldn't be possible. So even though I admit I'd have liked a little more from the pass rush, I'm happy I got the best edge rusher in football. People are too quick to write the obituary of JJ IMO.

Clowney being at 9 proves that the statistic isn’t the end all be all and flawed. Dude is an overrated chump.

I’m not saying JJ is washed by any means and is still a dominant player but I don’t think of him as the quick tic edge player - but he still can clearly get the job done. Then he has to catch Mahomes though.

JJ Watt is still definitely elite, that's a really strange call. With that said he was blanked in the playoffs against the Chiefs...

And I actually think Clowney is verging on underrated now that everyone has decided that he's not good simply because he doesn't put up big sack numbers. He's always been one of the very best edge defenders against the run, and while he's not in the upper echelons of pass rushers it's not like he's a slouch. I've posted it numerous times over the years but we know that sack numbers are a reductive way of looking at pass rushing effectiveness.

In terms of players that are probably being overrated here, Roquan Smith hasn't lived up to the billing so far in his NFL career. I know PFF in particular has graded him quite poorly, and a general google search suggests he has been inconsistent at best with some big tackle games but plenty of mistakes as well, and most of his stats taking a step back in year 2. I think if UT is expecting him to look after Watson he could be in trouble, particularly given Todd won't have the protection issues that have often proved to be Deshaun's undoing for the Texans.

Absolutely love both secondaries but I do have concerns about Lawrence with his hands down, he is a natural 3-4 OLB who under Marinelli had to play 4-3 but with Nolan in at Dallas now, think they are going back to 3-4 which is up the alley of Lawrence. Thus, I think he could get neutralized by Todd's OLine, I think UT can rotate in and out of a 4-3 vs 3-4 though which is why I don't put too much emphasis on defensive systems as they aren't run by one set for a full 48 minute game. Teams throw in 5 secondary if it calls upon the matter and sacrifice that with 2 LB.

I think UT's WRs are more proven over time but Todd has the better unit from this past year. Comes down to what you put more emphasis on here, the now(Todd) or the before(UT). UT has durability concerns with Hunter Henry, Keenan Allen(Well early on in his career), Bryan Bulaga and TY Hilton but since that isn't necessarily factored in this, it's a moot point but not sure how this team lasts for a full 16+ game season. 4 of the major pieces of a 11 man offense have been notorious with the injury bug leads me to believe that 1-2 can possibly go down in the midst of a game and that would be absolute danger. Maholmes is great and I love that UT has the two best Irish olineman(Well Z Martin has a case too) today in ex teammates Nelson and Stanley together, UT really put an underrated OLine here.

UT's special teams will control field distance but Prater has his accuracy woes but makes up for it with a mega leg. Elliot has hit some beauties that aren't aided by the Denver air or being in a Detroit dome and Tress Way was often put in tough spots having to punt his guts out and still have respectable numbers because the Washington offense often could not muster a long drive going.

Think this is a great contest altogether both guys did good here. Think I rely on Todd's defense more here and think Chubb can control the pace of the game against UT's interior and thus keep Maholmes on the bench watching. Denzel Ward and Tre White have great makeup speed and become pests enough to make Maholmes be careful with killshot deep throws and when healthy, Watt and Clowney have the capability of going after Maholmes and forcing him to opt for shorter passes to Kamara or one of his targets. As clutch as Maholmes is, Watson is just as magical and will be hooking up with Lockett and Super Terry for some 3rd down conversions that makes me go Todd here.