This is getting tiresome with all of these stables and factions honestly.

Sept 17, 2020 1:38:51 GMT Blindy said:

This is getting tiresome with all of these stables and factions honestly.

Just because you can't keep up....

I hope Best Friends win here and go on to win the tag belts. 

Sept 17, 2020 1:53:15 GMT nazzer said:

Sept 17, 2020 1:38:51 GMT Blindy said:

This is getting tiresome with all of these stables and factions honestly.

Just because you can't keep up....

I hope Best Friends win here and go on to win the tag belts. 

The Taz/Snake alliance is too much.

Sept 17, 2020 2:00:29 GMT Blindy said:

Sept 17, 2020 1:53:15 GMT nazzer said:

Just because you can't keep up....

I hope Best Friends win here and go on to win the tag belts. 

The Taz/Snake alliance is too much.

How? They both hate Jon Moxley so they're teaming up next week. They'll be lucky if they even get along for that long. It's nothing.

Sept 17, 2020 2:02:34 GMT RT said:

Sept 17, 2020 2:00:29 GMT Blindy said:

The Taz/Snake alliance is too much.

How? They both hate Jon Moxley so they're teaming up next week. They'll be lucky if they even get along for that long. It's nothing.

This, Kingston faction, Inner Circle, Jurassic Express, Best Friends, MJF rumored faction. It's too much im sorry.

Sept 17, 2020 2:02:34 GMT RT said:

Sept 17, 2020 2:00:29 GMT Blindy said:

The Taz/Snake alliance is too much.

How? They both hate Jon Moxley so they're teaming up next week. They'll be lucky if they even get along for that long. It's nothing.

And the motivation is very clearly outlined. Taz is helping out Snake for a price, promise of a future title shot. It all makes perfect sense. 

Sept 17, 2020 2:04:00 GMT Blindy said:

Sept 17, 2020 2:02:34 GMT RT said:

How? They both hate Jon Moxley so they're teaming up next week. They'll be lucky if they even get along for that long. It's nothing.

This, Kingston faction, Inner Circle, Jurassic Express, Best Friends, MJF rumored faction. It's too much im sorry.

You'll be happy to know that most of the time, stables just end with no reason given, so you don't really need to pay attention that hard. But I get it. It isn't for everyone.

Sept 17, 2020 2:05:09 GMT RT said:

Sept 17, 2020 2:04:00 GMT Blindy said:

This, Kingston faction, Inner Circle, Jurassic Express, Best Friends, MJF rumored faction. It's too much im sorry.

You'll be happy to know that most of the time, stables just end with no reason given, so you don't really need to pay attention that hard. But I get it. It isn't for everyone.

I forgot Nightmare Family, how could I forget about that.

IDK it just seems like their way of fitting everybody into a 2 hour TV show personally. I am for 1-2 factions on a brand, not 5-6. This gets to be too much and you really only care about the mic worker most of the time as everybody else gets lost in the shuffle.

MJF was the best act solo, I am really curious what they do with him.

Sept 17, 2020 2:07:24 GMT Blindy said:

Sept 17, 2020 2:05:09 GMT RT said:

You'll be happy to know that most of the time, stables just end with no reason given, so you don't really need to pay attention that hard. But I get it. It isn't for everyone.

I forgot Nightmare Family, how could I forget about that.

IDK it just seems like their way of fitting everybody into a 2 hour TV show personally. I am for 1-2 factions on a brand, not 5-6. This gets to be too much and you really only care about the mic worker most of the time as everybody else gets lost in the shuffle.

MJF was the best act solo, I am really curious what they do with him.

This feels like such a weird complaint. Wouldn't you want to get everybody on tv? 

Sept 17, 2020 2:09:51 GMT nazzer said:

Sept 17, 2020 2:07:24 GMT Blindy said:

I forgot Nightmare Family, how could I forget about that.

IDK it just seems like their way of fitting everybody into a 2 hour TV show personally. I am for 1-2 factions on a brand, not 5-6. This gets to be too much and you really only care about the mic worker most of the time as everybody else gets lost in the shuffle.

MJF was the best act solo, I am really curious what they do with him.

This feels like such a weird complaint. Wouldn't you want to get everybody on tv? 

If there is 2 shows like it's rumored AEW might get, I am cool with it but it feels like a smorgasbord of personalities all in your face. Seems way too much personally.  

Sept 17, 2020 2:09:51 GMT nazzer said:

Sept 17, 2020 2:07:24 GMT Blindy said:

I forgot Nightmare Family, how could I forget about that.

IDK it just seems like their way of fitting everybody into a 2 hour TV show personally. I am for 1-2 factions on a brand, not 5-6. This gets to be too much and you really only care about the mic worker most of the time as everybody else gets lost in the shuffle.

MJF was the best act solo, I am really curious what they do with him.

This feels like such a weird complaint. Wouldn't you want to get everybody on tv? 

Agreed. This was a good trick the WWF used 20 years ago and it made everybody feel relevant.

I absolutely love Eddie Kingston. Great promo skills and it really doesn't feel like he's playing a character at all. He feels really authentic. Bit of a shit group but hopefully they figure it out.

Don't mind the multiple stables at all.

It is a model Japan has used for years. In NJPW almost the entire roster is in one of four stables: CHAOS, LIJ, Suzuki-Gun and Bullet Club. Then there's a pseudo-stable for the other guys...Tanashi, Taguchi, random gaijins like Elgin and Cobb who aren't there all the time.

Gives a reason for tag team matches to happen, and there are a lot of tag team matches in NJPW. Most of their major cards have two or three high profile championship matches, and stable vs stable tag matches to pad out the rest of the card and get everyone on the show.

Not everyone's cup of tea but I see why they do it. Makes booking cards easier and more logical.

I can see your point Blindy, it does feel like every other month there's a new stable forming when very few have actually established themselves. One of the issues is that the company doesn't really use BTE which is almost required viewing to understand half the show.

I'm OK with it on a couple of fronts.

First off, they need to seperate themselves from the WWE. The WWE has seemingly gone away from stables ever since Evolution and anytime they tease a full on D-X vs. Nation of Domination style rivalry, they quickly break up one of the teams within weeks. Fans have been after stables for a long time because it can tell you so much about personalities without having to spell it out. It's the old adage of you can tell who somebody is by the company they keep.

Second, they have a ton of talent they have to introduce and this is a very easy way to get them over. Strength in numbers, especially when you can use a big personality like Kingston and Jericho to help get these guys over.

It's another example of AEW experimenting, trying different things the WWE doesn't do in order to attract more fans. I still think AEW is still struggling to get all the pieces to fit in it's puzzle, it still feels like a lot of segments don't go together but it's difficult to make strides during a worldwide pandemic.

Feels more like they are trying to find a way to combat people getting lost in the shuffle as they expand their roster with only a limited amount of time to get people on TV.   All feds suffer from this and WCW showed big stables is the best way to combat it.  

Eddie Kingston's stable does feel very thrown together. They just put two directionless tag teams together. Kingston is suddenly their best buddy, and they are "family". I know they didn't get along at first, which makes it seem all the more forced. Kingston literally forced them together. Maybe that's the point, but they don't feel cohesive at all.

As much as I didn't want Pac to abandon his singles run, Pac and Lucha Bros fit together like a glove, even if Death Triangle is kind of a dumb name.

All the other stables make sense though.

"Pentágono de Muerte" not official name for Kingston group but I probably will be using that. isn't that thrown together. They first seem random when they both hated the Bucks and FTR. Then they bonded over things like stilling FTR truck and beating both of the best tag teams in the world at the same time. They teamed a few times on dark but nearly brkoe up over something dumb. I think B&B won using Full Death and for some reason Penta El Cero M was upset for not being involved in the finish. Kingston is the only one that feels tacked on but I don't know much about his past.

And I noticed Dark Order wasn't mention in the list of stables. They are so big they could make up two stables if they wanted. And just forgotten about for shame.

The Nightmare Family aka Cody's entourage makes him look like the biggest star in the company. No probably with them.

The Inner Circle feels a little wierd since the have a true tag team in it yet Jericho has tagged with Sammy and Jake trying to dominate the division. Have a lot more faith in P&P.

I thought Jungle Express/A boy and his dinosaur originally had potential but the more I see them the less I like them.

I disliked Best Friends day one and only grown to hate them more. Hate Chuckie T, Trent, that camera zoom out on their hug, Orange, Sue, and her minivan. And they seem like the most featured tag team on the show.

Taz's group I do enjoy. Taz is great on the mic. Ricky Stark I initially didn't like but quickly becoming a favorite. Cage though feels like an after thought to the rest of the stable.

Dark Order was a horrible stable until a few weeks after Brodie Lee arrived. Now it is one of the most entertaining things in the company. Look for them on BTE episodes so I can use references that more then me and nazzer get.

AEW is a t-shirt company after all.

I'll explain my logic here ; stables, factions make up another, additional brand/image to sell. Which makes a sense. 

However, like anything, it needs to be organic. Think real life, random people don't " come together " without reason. So there needs to be a connection between workers/characters rather than throwing guys together. 

I could go on all day about how stoopid AEW is, but simply.. they rush things, and they've rushed stables. MJF will have a stable within a week or so, and it will make absolutely no sense. 

Sept 17, 2020 23:54:38 GMT NATH45 said:

AEW is a t-shirt company after all.

I'll explain my logic here ; stables, factions make up another, additional brand/image to sell. Which makes a sense. 

However, like anything, it needs to be organic. Think real life, random people don't " come together " without reason. So there needs to be a connection between workers/characters rather than throwing guys together. 

I could go on all day about how stoopid AEW is, but simply.. they rush things, and they've rushed stables. MJF will have a stable within a week or so, and it will make absolutely no sense. 

It is funny how some people have more t-shirts then times they have appeared on tv.

X-zero, did you see angelico and jack evans are now in the dark order? They lost the dance off and the stipulation to join was made very clear before the dance off started.

Sept 17, 2020 23:54:38 GMT NATH45 said:

AEW is a t-shirt company after all.

I'll explain my logic here ; stables, factions make up another, additional brand/image to sell. Which makes a sense. 

However, like anything, it needs to be organic. Think real life, random people don't " come together " without reason. So there needs to be a connection between workers/characters rather than throwing guys together. 

I could go on all day about how stoopid AEW is, but simply.. they rush things, and they've rushed stables. MJF will have a stable within a week or so, and it will make absolutely no sense. 

So much confusion; 

If AEW is stupid, what are they dumb compared to? Feels way less stupid than the other main stream option in north america. 

Dark Order: Everything about the dark order is organic. They are literally a group of losers? They came together over time by the promise of something to belong to, and this appealed to all of them, because wait for it. They're losers. And now they are together and have a sense of belonging, they will start to gain confidence....

The Elite: I think these guys have been a group for awhile now, before AEW maybe. Totally not organic though. 

Team Taz: Taz, the guy who named it after himself, recruited the members. Seems fairly organic. 

SCU: I think they've been a unit for several years before AEW.... not organic at all. 

Innercircle: Maybe not so organic, but at some point when they've been a constant since basically day one of tv you could buy in could 't you?

Best Friends/Orange Cassidy: Been together since before AEW for years. Organic?

Nightmare family: They're like related? And another is a friend and his girlfriend. Totally not organic. 

Janella and Sonny kiss: They're both from jersey, which got them together and they've done some cool vignettes of them getting to know each other. Seems fine to me. 

Jurassic express; again, together since day one. But totally not organic. 

Matt and Private party and hanging out: Was explained because Matt is mentoring them. Seems fine to me. 

Gunn Club: They're literally related. 


Honestly man, I wonder if you even watch the show? It all makes perfect sense to me.

Sept 18, 2020 1:11:09 GMT nazzer said:

X-zero , did you see angelico and jack evans are now in the dark order? They lost the dance off and the stipulation to join was made very clear before the dance off started.

They won that dance off though. Wardlow voted for them. But Orange and Stu voted TH2.

Sept 18, 2020 3:57:33 GMT X-zero said:

Sept 18, 2020 1:11:09 GMT nazzer said:

X-zero , did you see angelico and jack evans are now in the dark order? They lost the dance off and the stipulation to join was made very clear before the dance off started.

They won that dance off though. Wardlow voted for them. But Orange and Stu voted TH2.

Nope, this is a bad take. Stu made a big pause between saying John and Alex's name, therefore starting a new sentence. His first and clear answer was John and Alex. They Won. 

Sept 18, 2020 4:11:15 GMT nazzer said:

Sept 18, 2020 3:57:33 GMT X-zero said:

They won that dance off though. Wardlow voted for them. But Orange and Stu voted TH2.

Nope, this is a bad take. Stu made a big pause between saying John and Alex's name, therefore starting a new sentence. His first and clear answer was John and Alex. They Won. 

So you are saying Brandon Cutler splice that video together to make the Dark Order looks like they lost when they won. I get you.

The way the Dark Order was introduced was pretty forced. They interfere at Double Or Nothing and nobody knows or cares who Evil Uno and Stu Grayson were.

On a show where fans were dying to love everything, they were the one lowlight. Except they kept pushing and pushing and on a fairly light hearted product they played the Dark Order straight as an arrow and we were expected to take Uno's corny delivery seriously.

They were supposed to enter a program with The Elite but had to abandon it after that awful beat-down.

Sept 18, 2020 4:18:28 GMT X-zero said:

Sept 18, 2020 4:11:15 GMT nazzer said:

Nope, this is a bad take. Stu made a big pause between saying John and Alex's name, therefore starting a new sentence. His first and clear answer was John and Alex. They Won. 

So you are saying Brandon Cutler splice that video together to make the Dark Order looks like they lost when they won. I get you.

Clearly, maybe he could have beaten Avalon and become the 2nd worst wrestler in AEW if he had joined Dark Order, but he is clearly living with regret and jealousy of John Silver. 

Sept 18, 2020 4:27:39 GMT Big Pete said:

The way the Dark Order was introduced was pretty forced. They interfere at Double Or Nothing and nobody knows or cares who Evil Uno and Stu Grayson were.

On a show where fans were dying to love everything, they were the one lowlight. Except they kept pushing and pushing and on a fairly light hearted product they played the Dark Order straight as an arrow and we were expected to take Uno's corny delivery seriously.

They were supposed to enter a program with The Elite but had to abandon it after that awful beat-down.

Has the guy that threw all the terrible punches been seen since then?

Has your opinion changed on the dark order since Brodie Lee came along? Sure there was some rough patches, but things change and evolve and get better right. I thought Lee destroying Cody for the TNT title, followed by the beatdown of the nightmare family was awesome (Anna Jay choking out Brandi was so good)

Sept 18, 2020 4:27:39 GMT Big Pete said:

The way the Dark Order was introduced was pretty forced. They interfere at Double Or Nothing and nobody knows or cares who Evil Uno and Stu Grayson were.

On a show where fans were dying to love everything, they were the one lowlight. Except they kept pushing and pushing and on a fairly light hearted product they played the Dark Order straight as an arrow and we were expected to take Uno's corny delivery seriously.

They were supposed to enter a program with The Elite but had to abandon it after that awful beat-down.

They weren't the only lowlight. The women's division was and still a pretty lowlight. And since we are on the subject of bad stables remember the Nightmare Collective?

Oh god, if only thhey would make luther disapear like they did kong and Mel

Sept 18, 2020 4:30:40 GMT nazzer said:

Sept 18, 2020 4:27:39 GMT Big Pete said:

The way the Dark Order was introduced was pretty forced. They interfere at Double Or Nothing and nobody knows or cares who Evil Uno and Stu Grayson were.

On a show where fans were dying to love everything, they were the one lowlight. Except they kept pushing and pushing and on a fairly light hearted product they played the Dark Order straight as an arrow and we were expected to take Uno's corny delivery seriously.

They were supposed to enter a program with The Elite but had to abandon it after that awful beat-down.

Has the guy that threw all the terrible punches been seen since then?

Has your opinion changed on the dark order since Brodie Lee came along? Sure there was some rough patches, but things change and evolve and get better right. I thought Lee destroying Cody for the TNT title, followed by the beatdown of the nightmare family was awesome (Anna Jay choking out Brandi was so good)

I'm pretty sure he was also the guy who drove the white hummer and also hacked SmackDown there for a moment.

Obviously not for me personally, but at least the goofy presentation fits in with the rest of the show. I still find it difficult to get invested since their latest run seems destined to end with Cody coming back and regaining his title (possibly due to Cabana) so I'm just sitting here waiting until that takes place.

They weren't the only lowlight. The women's division was and still a pretty lowlight. And since we are on the subject of bad stables remember the Nightmare Collective?

When I said show, I meant on Double Or Nothing which everything else from memory was received well. This was back when we thought Kylie Rae was going to be the face of the division and the 6-Woman Tag match was a perfectly OK mid-card bout from memory. The women only started copping heat when Emi Sakura was getting 10 minute matches on TV and of course the Nightmare Collective were actively ruining matches. Yes, the Nightmare Collective sucks and Brandi is still taking up way too much screentime.

Organic in storytelling maybe. 

nazzer , most of these examples serve some of most inorganic, obvious tropes in wrestling. These can be established on day one of a new promotion without any real storytelling behind them.

ie; related = tag team, stable ( Nightmare Family, Gunn Club, Bucks ) same home town = tag team, stable. ( Kiss/Janella, SCU ) foreigners/gaijin = tag team, stable ( The Elite ) 

These work well on a smaller scale, ie; the independents and you also see this in the early stages of most careers. Because it's an easy sell when continuity isn't important (yet), or exposure is limited (lower-card), or especially when working independents without regularly scheduled programming. You're selling an 'act' rather than an angle or storyline. Similarly, Joey Ryan was an act that didn't rely on context or depth, meaning he could work it anywhere without a story to drive it or logic behind it. The Elite were an act on the American independents (it was a shtick, a routine..), although they served part of a greater storyline in NJPW.

But when you're producing an episodic program, it should work in the opposite way. Two or more workers should be coming together with reason or motive usually a common goal or interest or common enemy or threat. Think focusing on the origin story, rather than jumping straight into a name, t-shirt line without any real substance behind it. 

If it is more an arms race more than anything else with AEW. Sell that threat. Yet, AEW's tone is completely off - if they were selling the idea of civil war or the viewer could sense the threat of not being part of a stable ie; survival. Sure, I'd understand the excessive number of factions. 

Honestly, AEW could fire half it's roster and still have the same product.