Nov 8, 2020 4:01:32 GMT RT said:

Nov 8, 2020 3:44:35 GMT Michinokudriver said:

...oh. I thought they were planning on burying Sammy's corpse somewhere on the swamps of the Hardy compound.

I actually expected them to put him in the coffin but Senor Benjamin's truck was better.

Fun match but I hope they don't do any more deletion matches until they come up with fresh material.

Yeah, this did feel more like a Greatest Hits compilation rather than something fresh and new.

OMG great spot...

I bet Jericho gets forced out of the Inner Circle, and MJF becomes the new leader.

You know it. Jericho may want to do music sooner or later again and take some time off.  Jericho is best used in in on / off runs.  Once get starts to get stale, let him go away, then return with his next fun idea.

FINALLY.

I better see a CHIKARA special or I will be so disappointed.

This is going to get interesting fast.

Kingston forgot that pins don't count in an "I Quit" match.

Shit, wonder who put this together, this is old school style.

Come on legos!!!  Boo...  If they were hardcore would have been legos...

I always get that uneasy feeling whenever I see someone with tacks stuck to themselves.

Come on Kingston rotary saw... We need that spot on national TV...

Oh no! Not the alcohol!

Oh SHIT. We gonna get a fire spot?  Mox Jack ending being set up?

OH GOD!!! Mox has tacks on his head!

I mean I absolutely get how legit burning the pain of rubbing alcohol in open wounds would be but imagine if Mox actually quit from that

"Have you had enough?"
"YES YES I QUIT"

everyone: ...

Oh geez. After all that?

Freaking love Bryce.

They should have used the Mox / Jack ending with someone giving up to avoid taking something just really fucked up.

That was a solid show. No stinkers, and a really great Tag Title match.

That was a garbage finish. I know what they were going for but it didn't look good.

Kingston should have tried to light Mox on fire.

That should have been the finish, threatening a fire spot until someone quit.

Kenny Omega vs Hangman Page

Fantastic opener. This wasn't a 30 minute epic as you might expect from a big tournament final, and I don't think it should have been. 15-20 minute slobberknocker where both guys threw everything at each other right from the start. Kenny Omega is not my preferred winner, but the way he beat Hangman felt earned, so good for him. ****1/4

My only concern is where they take Hangman Page from here. It really felt like the moment for Page to ascend, but I guess it's not his time. The question is: will it ever be his time? I don't know how long they can keep pulling the rug from under him before it really hurts.

Orange Cassidy vs Silver

Fun midcard contest. Good win for Orange Cassidy and a great showcase for Silver.

Cody vs Darby Allin

I love how they worked this match. Exactly how a match between Cody and Darby should go down. Cody dominating Darby with his size and experience advantage. Darby taking a huge beating but never giving up no matter how bleak his situation. Cody at times let his ego get to his head and this nearly cost him at many moments, and then it did cost him.

Right from the start Allin's character has always been the guy who can take an endless beating but is extremely tough to put away. It always felt like Allin was eventually going to gain enough experience to figure out how to beat one of the top guys after so many near misses, and now he's done it. ****1/2

Hikaru Shida vs Nyla Rose

I kinda like how these ladies work their matches on paper: a Gail Kim vs Awesome Kong dynamic, except here Gail Kim is a bit bigger and hits harder. They both worked very hard, and told a sensible story, so it's about as good as you're going to get from these two. Unfortunately neither are particularly great workers so there's going to be a ceiling on how good their matches can be, but they hit that ceiling, so good for them.

FTR vs Young Bucks

I was expecting to hate this match but ended up liking it. One reason for that maybe because I fast forwarded through the first 10 minutes or so which was mostly FTR working Matt Jackson's ankle.

I started paying attention at the start of the 20 minute finishing stretch. For the most part I thought it was really good, with many great twists and turns harkening back to The Revival's epic contests in NXT. The lack of Tully Blanchard and any cheating really helped the match as it was truly a clean fight between the two best tag teams in the company. Also Wilder's busted hand was used very effectively.

This was of course very excessive but I don't object to Young Bucks excessiveness when it's merited, and this match definitely deserves it. There are bits and pieces I could nitpick but for the most part I enjoyed it.

The finish kinda sucked though. When FTR busted Matt Jackson's ankle a few weeks ago, I jokingly commented that this meant Matt Jackson would hit a million superkicks with a broken ankle. Lo and behold, Matt Jackson's ankle was crippled for the whole match and the match ends on a barefoot superkick with that very injured foot. Fucking hell. I bet the Bucks think that is glorious storytelling, but it's not. Matt Jackson will never stop working his matches as literally superman, so it's not a surprise, just a disappointment.

Sammy Guevara vs Matt Hardy

I stopped watching one minute into the match when Matt Hardy said "That's orgasmic" in the worst comic villain voice I've ever heard.

Saw the finish. So Matt Hardy literally murdered the guy with blunt force trauma. Well, at least they lived up to the stipulation.

Rest coming later.

Chris Jericho vs MJF

Pretty good traditional match. Both guys worked quite smug which was nice to see. MJF works Jericho's right arm all match but there is no reaction or no sense of drama when he locks in the Fujiwara Armbar, his finisher, on that very arm. I kinda liked the finish though. Makes sense for two heels to try a bunch of shenanigans, and MJF outsmarted Jericho. Good for him.

MJF and Wardlow in the Inner Circle is interesting. Let's see how this goes.

Jon Moxley vs Eddie Kingston

Gritty and violent war, exactly what the doctor ordered, but I didn't feel too invested in the events knowing that Kingston had no chance of winning.

That was my problem with the main event too. As much as I didn't care for the finish, the main reason was I never believed Kingston had a chance.

Then he spent two weeks saying he's never quit, and Moxley would have to kill him, and he quit to a choke hold with some obviously fake barbed wire that would have hurt Moxley's arm more.

I would have gone full theatrical. Kingston is about to light Moxley on fire after the alcohol spot, then he sees his mom in the front row almost in tears, broken up over the man her son has become. He realizes his sanity is worth more than the title, throws down the lighter, hugs his mom and quits.

That, or Moxley straight up hangs him with barbed wire. Or Kingston passes out, or his throat is cut and the referee forces the match to end...lots of options besides the one they did.

I have faith Kingston will survive this and his AEW career will still be fun, but they could have done better.

I wasn't actually planning to do a summary of every match, but Emperor 's format was so enjoyable that I have decided to steal it. I can sneak in most of the stuff I was going to quote to respond to anyway.

Kenny Omega vs Hangman Page

I absolutely agree that this didn't need to be a 30 minute epic. It was amazingly enjoyable. Me and Emperor both give a lot of shit to "video game wrestling" but Omega and Hangman are so good that they worked it so it seemed normal and made sense. Yes, they quickly recovered after some big moves, but seemed realistically out of it for the short time right after taking the move when needed. Plus it felt like they really could do that considering how important the match was and how much heart both guys have - and them being established as two of the best wrestlers in the world certainly helped.

They kept the match short and it was only a few amazing recoveries before Hangman quickly went down. Nice, compact, brilliant.

I also would have preferred a Hangman win but it is tough to complain here. We've already seen Omega/Moxley, but I can't say I'm not looking forward to the rematch. I just hope Hangman gets some big opportunities soon as well.

Orange vs Silver

I knew Silver was good, but this reinforced those thoughts big time. Dude is straight up badass and jacked. I almost wanted him to win for a minute there, even knowing how terrible that booking would be for Orange. I also love how it was the battle of colors. We need more matches like this, preferably where the winner isn't so obvious.

Cody vs Darby Allin

I did enjoy this match, but it's tough not to be mad at Cody. Yeah, he gave Darby the win, but his entire ring persona relying on him having to look superficially strong and only losing because he gave Darby too much time to recover still made it come off like he was protecting his status and pissed me off. Darby won, but the message still read as "not as good as Cody if they were both wrestling 100%". Why do that to your new champion instead of making him seem like a badass? He kind of just came off as lucky.

It's not like this helps Cody either. I do not understand a gimmick where he repeatedly fucks up but still wins almost every match.

Hikaru Shida vs Nyla Rose

Good, but for some reason I couldn't get into it. I hate Shida's chair jump spots as the knee rarely looks good, and that was the case here as well. Vickie botching the leg grab was also very off-putting.

FTR vs Young Bucks

I was expecting to like this match and ended up liking it. I was both disappointed and pleased with different aspects of it. Overall, a great match...but nowhere near the level of Bucks Vs. OmegaMan.

It did have some great twists and turns, but the Bucks offense was incredibly annoying as usual. Their superman 1vs2ing the other team and so many of their moves/combos requiring the other team to stand there like idiots or run into obvious attacks over and over is hard to ignore. FTR came off as a bunch of bumbling fools for a lot of the middle part of the match. They also didn't really work Matt's leg much when that was a huge angle of the match. They didn't even get the chance because the Bucks were just too good. The Bucks are talented, but absolutely terrible at working a match. Presumably because they just don't give a fuck and want to show off flashy moves 100% of the match instead.

I also find it hard to justify FTR being dethroned when they were absolutely on fire and the greatest tag team to come around in a long time. I am not optimistic about a Bucks reign at all. It will just be a bunch of flashy burials like all the Cody title defenses. Never mind the message that the Bucks are better than FTR even while seriously injured.

Sammy Guevara vs Matt Hardy

Well that was...unique. I enjoyed it and there were some laughs and cool spots, but I wouldn't want to see it or anything like it again. At least not anytime soon. Brutal ending.

Chris Jericho vs MJF

Loved it. Not a match of the year, but they found a great ending where Jericho was able to lose but not lose any credibility whatsoever. This was very important because his credibility is suffering a bit after the losses to Cassidy, and it made MJF look like a million bucks to boot. The commentators no-selling the salt of the Earth was a gross oversight on their part, but not in Jericho or MJF's control. The whole commentary booth was just caught sleeping. They really need to rework the commentary team...kill Schitavone and replace him and Excalibur with better people.

Jon Moxley vs Eddie Kingston

Very good match. I didn't even mind it being obvious that Moxley would win because it was so entertaining. Like most Moxley matches, not much to say here though. He seems to have that bizarre effect where you enjoy watching his matches a lot but there's not much to talk about with them.

Nov 8, 2020 23:38:04 GMT RT said:

That was my problem with the main event too. As much as I didn't care for the finish, the main reason was I never believed Kingston had a chance.

Then he spent two weeks saying he's never quit, and Moxley would have to kill him, and he quit to a choke hold with some obviously fake barbed wire that would have hurt Moxley's arm more.

I would have gone full theatrical. Kingston is about to light Moxley on fire after the alcohol spot, then he sees his mom in the front row almost in tears, broken up over the man her son has become. He realizes his sanity is worth more than the title, throws down the lighter, hugs his mom and quits.

That, or Moxley straight up hangs him with barbed wire. Or Kingston passes out, or his throat is cut and the referee forces the match to end...lots of options besides the one they did.

I have faith Kingston will survive this and his AEW career will still be fun, but they could have done better.

I can see why you're disappointed, especially since your alternative of lighting people on fire is so much better. But I don't think it was as much of an oversight as you make it sound. The match did what it needed to do and I had no qualms with Kingston quitting when he did - being choked out by barbed wire looks like it fucking hurts. Even if it was hurting Moxley more, he wasn't going to stop and was driving it right into his neck. The barbed wire is obviously fake, but it looks real enough to me in the context of the show.

Nov 10, 2020 4:33:33 GMT Lionheart said:

Nov 8, 2020 23:38:04 GMT RT said:

That was my problem with the main event too. As much as I didn't care for the finish, the main reason was I never believed Kingston had a chance.

Then he spent two weeks saying he's never quit, and Moxley would have to kill him, and he quit to a choke hold with some obviously fake barbed wire that would have hurt Moxley's arm more.

I would have gone full theatrical. Kingston is about to light Moxley on fire after the alcohol spot, then he sees his mom in the front row almost in tears, broken up over the man her son has become. He realizes his sanity is worth more than the title, throws down the lighter, hugs his mom and quits.

That, or Moxley straight up hangs him with barbed wire. Or Kingston passes out, or his throat is cut and the referee forces the match to end...lots of options besides the one they did.

I have faith Kingston will survive this and his AEW career will still be fun, but they could have done better.

I can see why you're disappointed, especially since your alternative of lighting people on fire is so much better. But I don't think it was as much of an oversight as you make it sound. The match did what it needed to do and I had no qualms with Kingston quitting when he did - being choked out by barbed wire looks like it fucking hurts. Even if it was hurting Moxley more, he wasn't going to stop and was driving it right into his neck. The barbed wire is obviously fake, but it looks real enough to me in the context of the show.

Yeah and also I didn't take into account the moments leading up to it, where Moxley beat the shit out of Kingston to the point that Kingston just sat there, defeated, and flipped of Moxley as he begged him to quit.

Now that I've slept on it I'm less disappointed. It was pretty good.

You are on to something though. Virtually every single match would be better if someone was lit on fire during it.

I am calling for immolations and musical numbers to be added to all matches!

Kenny Omega vs. Adam Page

Omega appears to have lost a step since the heights of his NJPW days. The way he was acting in the ring, it reminded me of Austin circa 2001 when he realised his approach wasn't as effective and really needed to wrestle smarter even at the expense of his fanbase. There was a few flashes of vintage Omega, that springboard off the guard-rail was especially effective but he just didn't settle into that rhythm that he's capable of. Page is close to putting all the pieces together but still has these unorthodox moves that puts him in disadvantageous positions. I feel if he worries less about the high spots and focus' more on power and holds he could find that next gear he's missing to compete with the best. Basically felt like Omega won without bringing his A game.

John Silver vs. Orange Cassidy

Cassidy is one of the best rope-a-dope wrestlers in the business. He's the ultimate chess player where he's happy for you to take his pieces, as long as he can get you in a checkmate. Silver fell folly here and he won't be the first to do so. Either way he got on PPV, got to showcase some of his skills and I don't think a win will be too far out of the reckoning.

Cody Rhodes vs. Darby Allin

Cody is such a frustrating wrestler to watch. He worked so well early on, especially when he got that backdrop on the ramp and had Darby in all sorts. However he just couldn't follow it up with anything and just lost the plot. Arn must be making good money, because lord knows Cody isn't doing his coaching any justice here. Cody should have won and won easy but he choked it away going for high risk offense when it was just never on. Allin to his credit showed good heart and the way he was moving around the ring was very impressive.I feel like Cassidy he understands his style really well and he's really honing in on this unorthodox style which makes it difficult to have a traditional wrestling match with since he can catch you in all sorts of situations.

A nice strong win, it's a shame that AEW's security is nearly as bad as their medical staff. Thank goodness for Will Hobbes coming in and saving the day, but it was a nice statement from Team Taz all the same.

Hikaru Shida vs. Nyla Rose

Vickie served that match up on a plate for Rose and she absolutely choked. I just don't think Nyla is that great, I struggle to understand why others haven't been given the opportunity because Nyla is just too slow and sloppy to go toe to toe with most of these women. Shida once again proved to be a class above and I'm eagerly anticipating her inevitable clash with Dr. Britt Baker DMD.

The Young Bucks vs. FTR

This is one of those matches where if it wasn't Match of the Year it was inevitably going to disappoint. Unfortunately it just wasn't in the cards, Matt's bad knee took away the Bucks trademark tandem offence and it made the match something of a slog in the early going. I was disappointed in FTR's approach, they seemed to be working a slow deliberate pace in those exchanges. Usually they're great at picking their opposition apart but it really took them awhile for them to go after Matt's leg with any real venom. I thought the execution of the Hart Foundation, Steiner Brothers, Dudley Boyz and Hardy Boyz finishers took away from the match. I came to see Bucks/FTR, not a bad covers band. It's one thing to pull a leaf out of let's say Bret's book at Wrestlemania X-7 it's another just to do other teams signatures pretty poorly. On the plus side, Nick Jackson proved once again he's one of the best hot tags in the business. The way he moves around the world is just other-worldly, he knows those ropes so well and his movement seems so effortless. Still, FTR were in the box-seat but completely choked with Cash's weird obsession to hit high spots. Why? Why this imitation nonsense? The Bucks were gallant, but FTR really let themselves down.

Matt Hardy vs. Sammy Guevara

This felt like a gritter take on all those Final Deletion matches from before. Usually they were tightly edited and went from spot to spot seamlessly, while here the takes were much longer and they had commentary over the top. It's difficult to draw too many conclusions, I guess don't piss Matt off, or he'll crack your skull open and dump your body in a tiny wheely bin. Was also nice to see Hurricane Helms, Gangrel and the Hardy family again. I was disappointed that Senor Benjamin and Reby were nowhere to be seen until they popped up.

Chris Jericho vs. MJF

I have to echo the sentiment of the others, this was a surprisingly good fight largely in part to MJF. MJF really is one of the best wrestlers going around today and I thought his approach to the match was incredibly smart with an effective gameplan that targeted the elbow of Jericho and some really smart counters to Jericho's trademark offence. Jericho is definitely well past his prime at this point, but this was his best outing since the Tokyo Dome - clearly the live sing-a-long of Judas brought out the best in him. I thought the finish was genius as well and full props to MJF for pulling it off. Didn't think it was possible, but my MotN.

Jon Moxley vs. Eddie Kingston

It's so surreal to see this as a main event on a major wrestling promotion. I was having a trip where it felt like I was reading it on PW.com with those EWR and lots of UPPER CASE DRAMATIC SPOTS WITH LOTS OF EXCLAMATION POINTS!!! Surreal stuff but this was tough to get into. Largely because this isn't a wrestling match, it's just a fight where guys grab whatever they can to earn a submission. I'm just waiting for the Reservoir Dogs style moments, this seemed pretty tame by comparison. Barb Wire and Thumb Tacks? What is this? 1994? Where is the Hydrochloric acid baths or better yet full blown sword fights. I just wasn't feeling it, and it seemed like Moxley wasn't either. It really took him awhile to get into the swing of things and if he wasn't against such an unfit opponent who was clearly gassed going into the stretch he may have been in serious trouble. THat seems to be the story of Moxley's reign. I've never been super impressed with his performances, he always just gets by through the skin of his teeth. Still it does give us Moxley/Omega which is one rematch the fans want to see. Once again, Khan has done a pretty good job of promoting rematches.

Also the best women's storyline right now is Diamante's desperate attempts to get Ivalisse to sing along to Judas.