Jun 19, 2021 2:29:56 GMT @ness said:

What is your Punk/Austin, HBK/The Rock, Sting/Taker dream match that never got to be?

I don't have just one, but substitute Hogan for Punk and all three of the ones you mentioned would be on the list. Some more...

Savage vs. Funk
Steamboat vs. Perfect
Steamboat vs. Dibiase
Brock vs. Tanahashi
Bret vs. main eventer Triple H 
JBL vs. Hogan
Vader vs. Lawler in Memphis
Vader vs. The Giant
Vader vs. Savage
Vader vs. a lot of other guys
Midnight Express vs. Rockers
Michaels vs. Eddie
Rey vs. peak Christopher Daniels

*That's enough for now and I tried to keep realistic rather than cross-pollinate eras.

Jun 19, 2021 3:56:41 GMT Baker said:

Jun 19, 2021 2:29:56 GMT @ness said:

What is your Punk/Austin, HBK/The Rock, Sting/Taker dream match that never got to be?

I don't have just one, but substitute Hogan for Punk and all three of the ones you mentioned would be on the list. Some more...

Savage vs. Funk
Steamboat vs. Perfect
Steamboat vs. Dibiase
Brock vs. Tanahashi
Bret vs. main eventer Triple H 
JBL vs. Hogan
Vader vs. Lawler in Memphis
Vader vs. The Giant
Vader vs. Savage
Vader vs. a lot of other guys
Midnight Express vs. Rockers
Michaels vs. Eddie
Rey vs. peak Christopher Daniels

*That's enough for now and I tried to keep realistic rather than cross-pollinate eras.

Vader and Lawler, never thought of that one, Lawler would have really been in his element and made Vader look awesome. I agree Vader vs. a lot of guys are way up on my list.



The Vader/Savage interactions during the Slamboree tag with Hogan/Flair were so intense but was just a tease, a bit of a miss on WCW's part to never get them in a singles match.

*Forgot to answer a 🤯 question yesterday in a fanfic thread. Moving it over here to avoid cluttering up that thread.

Jun 23, 2021 12:23:33 GMT 🤯 said:

Muta/Rude... Has this happened IRL?

Slick Ric vs. Slick Nic, Mr. NWA vs. Mr. AWA, with a universe-specific backstory to boot. Yes, please. Sign me up!

Muta vs. Rude never happened in real life. The closest they came was a pair of awesome-on-paper tag matches pitting Rude & Vader vs. Sting & Muta in 1992 on back to back house shows in Kansas & Nebraska. Would watch if they ever surface.

Turns out Flair vs. Bock did happen...but only once at a January 1986 show in the AWA town of Winnipeg. Flair was NWA Champ at the time but Bock was not AWA Champ for once. Therefore it was not champion vs. champion. 

What does the term X-Pac heat mean? how did it become a buzzword in wrestling vernacular?

Jul 5, 2021 0:20:02 GMT Ed said:

What does the term X-Pac heat mean? how did it become a buzzword in wrestling vernacular?

The idea that a popular babyface has remained stagnant and despite booking and alignment said wrestler getting heat. Since the goal of the character is to not be booed it creates a different atmosphere. People didn't necessarily want him to get his ass kicked by his opponent, but moreso they were tired/bored of the act and the booing acted as go away heat. His theme, endless spinning heel kicks, same old shit people were just tired of.

It has seriously ruined his legacy in the grand scheme of things. He's overlooked as Syxx in WCW... his accomplishments are ignored or downplayed due to his lengthy run as "FUCK OFF". He was VERY over, especially in 99 around the time of the feud with Shane and Corp, his partnership with Kane, etc. He also had his fair share of good matches. But with guys like Benoit, Jericho, Eddy coming on board he just felt off in comparison since his character had remained DX green while people were moving on from the act.

Dude just trying to put food on the table. Can relate, can't imagine trying to empty the trash at work and people start booing me because I'm wearing the same clothes I wore that time last Tuesday.

Baker

Jul 5, 2021 0:30:15 GMT @ness said:

Jul 5, 2021 0:20:02 GMT Ed said:

What does the term X-Pac heat mean? how did it become a buzzword in wrestling vernacular?

The idea that a popular babyface has remained stagnant and despite booking and alignment said wrestler getting heat. Since the goal of the character is to not be booed it creates a different atmosphere. People didn't necessarily want him to get his ass kicked by his opponent, but more so they were tired/bored of the act and the booing acted as go-away heat. His theme, endless spinning heel kicks, same old shit people were just tired of.

It has seriously ruined his legacy in the grand scheme of things. He's overlooked as Syxx in WCW... his accomplishments are ignored or downplayed due to his long run as "FUCK OFF". He was VERY over, especially in 99 around the time of the feud with Shane and Corp, his partnership with Kane, etc. He also had his fair share of good matches. But with guys like Benoit, Jericho, Eddy coming on board he just felt off in comparison since his character had remained DX green while people were moving on from the act.

Dude just trying to put food on the table. Can relate, can't imagine trying to empty the trash at work and people start booing me because I'm wearing the same clothes I wore that time last Tuesday.

Baker

I will now dub X-Pac heat Seth Rollins heat.

Jul 5, 2021 0:20:02 GMT Ed said:

What does the term X-Pac heat mean? how did it become a buzzword in wrestling vernacular?

@ness nailed it.

Disregarding the burning of every bridge known to man, and also a premature death, what do you think would have been the best case scenario for Hot Stuff Eddie Gilbert in the '90s? Want to see the Bakerman go crazy with an alternate history booking.

Dammit Kilgore . Think this is the first time I've ever been genuinely annoyed with you. Wanted to go to sleep but how can I sleep when there is a "Hot Stuff" Eddie Gilbert question to answer? I'll lay out a few scenarios after a brief intro...

One thing is for certain. Eddie Gilbert was about to become a hot commodity. The wrestling world was finally about to catch up with him. Undersized guys specializing in bloodbaths with a great mind for the business were about to become all the rage. One of the first truly great things I ever read online about wrestling was an article titled "Eddie Gilbert: The Reason You're A Wrestling Fan." Alas, I cannot find it, but the writer made a convincing case for Eddie Gilbert inventing a lot the popular tropes which became Attitude Era staples.

ECW- Gilbert left Eddie's Championship Wrestling in '93 due to a falling out with his real life protege Paul Heyman. ECW lost their biggest draw Sabu in April '95 and their lead heel Shane Douglas a few months later. Making this the perfect time for an Eddie Gilbert return. He could have been the biggest rebel in the land of rebels. It's real easy in hindsight to just slot him in Shane's lead heel spot and go from there with feuds against Dreamer, Sandman, Mikey, etc. before segueing to Raven as their top guy. They could even run a Raven/Gilbert feud since Raven was Eddie's "Stevie Richards" back in 1990 USWA. Then Eddie/Shane would have been a huge deal when Douglas returns. Eddie/Sabu and Eddie/Cactus would have been dream matches to that audience at that time. But of course he's only lasting a year at most given his track record and the fact that WWF & WCW were raiding ECW in their war to be #1.

WWF- I could easily see Eddie Gilbert getting involved in the war between his spiritual successor Brian Pillman and Steve Austin. Call it wishful thinking, but could you imagine Eddie mixing it up with Bret & Shawn? Somehow I can. Eddie could have been the 80s Piper of late stage New Generation/early Attitude Era. Just this little shit stirrer getting up in everyone's business....the best possible Just Joe. Maybe he starts out in Camp Cornette before outgrowing the restraints of that stable? Eddie vs. Goldust could have been a fun midcard feud. Eddie as the Jericho to Ahmed or Sid's Goldberg? I can see it. Eddie egging Mankind on in his war with Undertaker just because. Then the inevitable Foley/Gilbert feud when Mick realizes Eddie has been using him for his own sinister motives. Then he leaves because he's Eddie Gilbert.

WCW I see as Gilbert's least best option just because the roster was so stacked. Best case scenario is he replaces Pillman in the Horsemen. Does his thing for a few months but I think he's always going to take a backseat to the NWO. Nor does he have the name value to be a top guy in that stable. Still, maybe we get Gilbert/Savage out of it. Or Eddie G vs. Eddie G. Perhaps over the US Title? I can also see Gilbert/DDP matching up nicely. 

I'm sure he'd also do some backstage/booking work wherever he ends up. Maybe he even settles down and ends up having a lengthy Michael Hayes-style backstage career. Stranger things have happened. Wasn't Hayes himself difficult to work with once upon a time? Thought I read that somewhere. Hayes was definitely a wrestling vagabond at any rate. 

Or maybe with wrestling so hot Gilbert finds a money mark and ends up starting his own promotion? Of course it's destined to fail. But maybe we get a fun 6-12 months before Eddie inevitably self destructs or swindles his investors out of money and runs. 

*That's just dog tired me spit balling a brief outline from roughly 95-97. Maybe I'll be back tomorrow to elaborate and go deeper into the 90s-early 2000s.

Once you're fresh and recharged, I could indulge in some more Eddie rebooking, Baker-man. The shit you spit balled while exhausted is tantalizing.

Eddie tried to make Eastern Champion Wrestling Memphis east. It didn't work.

I will never understand Sting's heel turn in 1999. I think it was a case of outsmarting yourself. Do you remember this Baker, if so, I'm curious to hear your perspective?

Aug 10, 2021 0:23:57 GMT Ed said:

I will never understand Sting's heel turn in 1999. I think it was a case of outsmarting yourself. Do you remember this Baker , if so, I'm curious to hear your perspective?

Unfortunately I do not. Hadn't watched WCW in a long time by that point and have only went back to watch bits and pieces from that era. 

I have two theories as to why they did thought. WCW was in free fall and just throwing stuff at the wall to see what stuck. It could also simply be a product of its time. Swerves for the sake of shock value were all the rage in the late 90s. It didn't have to make sense. Sad part is it worked more often than not.

Yep Sting's turn was a swerve for the sake of being a swerve, one of Vince Russo's early projects that didn't stick.

I don't think you guys are wrong. I think they had a good story going. They just didn't know how to complete it. Hogan was the hated outsider, while Sting was the beloved pillar of WCW. A cool story on paper. I just never saw Sting's motives for turning on WCW.

Baker-man:

Rougeaus or Quebecers?

Mountie or JPL?

Baker do you like or hate the old school boots with the initials on it. RF for Ric Flair.

I always thought they were lame af.

Aug 12, 2021 21:38:07 GMT @ness said:

Baker do you like or hate the old school boots with the initials on it. RF for Ric Flair.

I always thought they were lame af.

Lame. But only because of overuse. The majority of important NWA acts in what my 2000s friend Bryan deemed The Era Before Pants all wore the same standardized gear- trunks with initials and boots with initials. Making it boring with initials. 

Aug 12, 2021 11:23:44 GMT 🤯 said:

Baker -man:

Rougeaus or Quebecers?

Mountie or JPL?

Excellent questions!

Rougeaux actually beat the Quebecers in most metrics- cooler attire, cooler theme, better gimmick, better on promos. But I'm still going with the Quebecers because they had cooler Midnight Expresses, more kayfabe success, and were involved in the awesome All Americans vs. Foreign Fanatics feud. Fwiw the Quebecers & Rougeaux are my 2nd & 3rd all time favorite tag teams.

Mountie. JPL's matches were a little better, but Mountie has him beat in everything else. 
===============
And since you asked about my fanfic process in another thread...

Basically I just come up with an idea and roll with it. If I get an audience, even an audience of one, great! I'll even throw them a bone from time to time. But I do it almost entirely for my own amusement. I book the kind of wrestling shows I'd want to watch without much care for how it will be received. Sometimes it gets over (The Gambler draft project superpushes, Lana Star that one time in fanfic, Lawlermania to an extent) but more often than not it flops (just about every fanfic draft, New Generation Wrestling, Late 90s Indie Project). 

I also stick to my strengths. I'd never book an Attitude Era show or a promotion based around workrate because both go against every instinct I have. I'm pretty terrible at writing promos so I tend to avoid writing promos except in special cases when it involves my guys or Lana Star. 

This is going to sound terribly pretentious, but when I'm really feeling it, I get worked up into an almost a trance-like state* where I just write and write like a madman without a care in the world. This is when you get a lot of ALL CAPS~!!!!!!!!!.

I also loathe proofreading. I usually hit send once I hit the wall. Then I'll go back and edit at a later date. This is cowardice. If I was true to myself I'd leave the unedited ALL CAPS~!!!! version for authenticity sake, typos be damned. 

*A week or two ago I was working on a non-wrestling project where I got into the zone a few times. It was great. And remains unedited! 

My ultimate goal in fanfic is to one day come up with something truly great. It almost always sounds better in my head. I usually end up hating most of what I write and never read it again once I get it out of my system. OK, one or two New Generation Wrestling posts were truly great, but it wasn't consistent enough for my liking. I rarely wrote George Plimpton well, for example. 

I have a lot of ideas (so, so many ideas) but I have to be in the mood to go through with them. You can't force it.

*Turns out I had slightly more than 5 minutes of material after all. Oh well.

Baker-man, that ain't no trance. That's Flow! Flow, which mostly only genius artists, elite athletes, etc. experience on the regular. It's no surprise to me most of your fan fic booking genius is the product of Flow. I wish I could attain Flow with rebooking. Anyway...

Let's merge the fan fic process into this next question...

If Yoko is a no-go as a monster heel champ in 1993 WWF, what do you do? What do you suggest WWF does? In terms of world champ, and company direction through WMX.

1.) What territory-era wrestling do you most highly recommend that's accessible to me via Youtube? 90's stuff can count, too. I'm developing an urge to watch more old school wrestling after watching OSW's videos on the New Gen era. ALL ABOARD THE LEX EXPRESS, BAY-BAY!!!

2.) Who was the biggest inspiration when creating the infamous "Countdown" Claude Baker character?

3.) Who's in Baker's illustrious six-man boys stable? Guys who never get enough love but are massively over with you? If you need to make that a baker's dozen instead, I'll understand. *drum crash*

1. Peak ECW was really just a glorified territory. They only ran the Mid Atlantic/Northeast/Florida until like 1998. And you strike me as a guy who would love ECW. I mean, half the people who posted on StrictlyECW had screen names like Fapmaster69. So watch ECW tv if you can find it. No idea if it's on Youtube, which gets worse with each passing day, but try DailyMotion if you come up empty on Youtube. As for the traditional 80s territories...

Memphis is the best when it comes to STUFF HAPPENING every week. Their business model depended on putting on a big show every single week. So every episode of Memphis tv is like this wild and woolly PPV go home show. But your enjoyment of Memphis will largely depend on how you feel about Jerry Lawler. As a Lawlermaniac, I personally love it. But you should probably stay away if you're indifferent (or worse) towards The King. The 80s stuff is better than the 90s stuff. So Memphis is basically like music.

I don't like Mid South/UWF as much as most people, but that may be because of the way I watched it with their big show Arena footage interspersed with their weekly tv show. The Arena matches tended to be brutal 20 minute headlock and armbar fests. Their tv featured more star vs. star matches than most territories. It's also more of an ensemble cast. They never had that one almighty superstar the way Memphis had Lawler, WWF had Hogan, and NWA/WCW had Flair.

Crockett is sort of a mix of those two crossed with the more squash heavy WWF tv of the era. You can count on some great promos from the likes of Cornette, Dusty, and The Horsemen every week, and the occasional hot angle, but some of the shows are just a parade of squashes with nothing of note happening.

*No idea what is or isn't still available Youtube though. All I do know is a whole lot of good stuff has been pulled over the years.
=================
3. Oh gosh. There are so many. Thing is I almost never liked the top guys growing up and I rarely connected with the popular workrate godz of the Internet Era. So a ton of my personal favorites weren't over with the general public. Here are a Baker's dozen(ish) worth with the caveat that I could probably get to a hundred if pressed...

JBL/Bradshaw (if he counts given his impressive showing in PW's Favorite Wrestler Countdown)
"The Mountie" Jacques Rougeau
Jeff Jarrett
Larry Zbyszko
Quebecer Pierre/Jean Pierre Lafitte/PCO
Teddy Hart
Ludvig Borga
Honkytonk Man
Tommy Dreamer & Sandman (if they count. I figure both are borderline. Though neither did very well in PW's Favorite Wrestler countdown )
"The Genius" Lanny Poffo
Yokozuna (and most 400+ pounders from the 80s & 90s)
Lana Star
Scott Norton
=================
2. I'll answer later.

Sept 3, 2021 15:58:59 GMT rad said:

1.) What territory-era wrestling do you most highly recommend that's accessible to me via Youtube? 90's stuff can count, too. I'm developing an urge to watch more old school wrestling after watching OSW's videos on the New Gen era. ALL ABOARD THE LEX EXPRESS, BAY-BAY!!!

2.) Who was the biggest inspiration when creating the infamous "Countdown" Claude Baker character?

1. Who cares about the territories when you've got glorious New Generation WWF right there? 
=====================
2. The Claude Baker character was originally a blatant ripoff of a character from an obscure NES game called Dusty Diamond's All Star Softball. Video Game Claude wasn't the greatest player. He was a decent power hitter with tackling ability, but he was also slow as molasses with limited defensive skills. But for some reason he was my guy in that game. Chances are he once hit an important homerun to beat my brother or the mighty Amazons. My brother and I would give the video game players personalities and trash talk each other in character. Video Game Claude became the lead heel in our weird little video game basement world. He was the captain of a team called the Cajuns and the clean up hitter in their legendary "Murderer's Row" lineup. But let's go back to the beginning before we get to Claude...

I had been coming up with characters for our basement wrestling figure leagues since the late 80s, but I surprisingly never had my own personal character until the mid-late 90s. Soon after getting online in 98 I became part of an AOL wrestling fan clique called the Wrestling Knowledge Organization. My cohorts started an e-fed so I had to have a character. I went with Bob Boone Jr. The name came from my friend Matt The IRS Fan mishearing Bob Orton Jr. while watching an AWF (Where We Wrestle In Rounds!) show in 95. Before long I had concocted this elaborate backstory for my pet Bob Boone Jr. character. He was the son of the legendary Bob Boone Sr. who had been a huge star and multiple time World Champion back in the 70s. But you never heard of him because he was an ornery cuss who got himself blackballed by WWF & NWA/WCW. To get his revenge, he spent 20 years training his son BBJ to be the perfect wrestler. BBJ hailed from Texas and stood in at 6'4 246 pounds. He could wrestle, brawl, and fly with anybody. His Boone Breaker submission finisher only worked because he was the perfect size for it. An inch shorter or an inch taller and it wouldn't have been nearly as effective. But his 6'4 frame was the ideal height for this back breaking maneuver. Anyway, I always liked the BBJ character way more than my cohorts. It never really got over with them. I finally gave up on trying to make Bob Boone Jr. a thing and moved on to...

Garth "The Truth" Jackson. Garth was my nickname from Middle School until I made new work friends from outside my neighborhood in college. It originally started because I looked like Garth from Wayne's World. I HATED it at first. It was like being called "Urkel" or "Screech." But I soon grew to embrace it. Yet my shoot last name featured unusual letters that popped up in an order seldom seen. It would never have flown in a wrestling promotion because it's hard to pronounce and even harder to spell. So I needed a fake surname. One day either my cousin or the youngest of my friends The Three Brothers called me "Garth Jackson" out of the blue. The name stuck. I had finally found my gimmick last name. It worked on multiple levels- As an homage to the Arizona Cardinals' awesomely named Garth Jax (which is probably where they got the "Jackson" name in the first place) and also because I was a fan of both Garth Brooks and Michael Jackson.

Anyway, Garth Jackson soon became my go to video game character and message board handle (including at StrictlyECW). This would have been 99-00. At some point I added "The Truth" nickname. Years before Ron Killings by the way. The gimmick was basically a late 90s shooty shoot shoot guy. Or Walter Sobchak if you prefer. Garth "The Truth" Jackson wasn't wrong. He was just an asshole.

In 2000 I started drifting away from my 95-99 neighborhood clique and hanging out more with my new work friends who knew nothing about my old Garth nickname. It was time to rebrand. And rebrand I did as Claude "Big Hit" Baker when we got into the PS2 Smackdown games in 01-02. As I mentioned earlier the name was a complete ripoff of the old Dusty Diamond's character. But Claude worked on multiple levels as a name- It's an ugly name- short, brutish, oafish... the sound one might make upon being hit in the stomach. But it can also be perceived as snobbish. Or better yet, French. Which worked for a heel name since anti-French sentiment was about to skyrocket here in the US. Yet there wasn't really much to the gimmick at first. Claude "Big Hit" Baker was just your generic, intentionally annoying, slightly wimpy, loudmouthed "Your local sports team sucks" kind of heel until I concocted a brilliant plan with my friend Boo...

*Oh, you have to understand I was part of a group of 5 who regularly got together to play the Smackdown video games between 01-03. It was similar to my brother and I playing Dusty Diamond's in the basement in that we'd trash talk each other both in and out of character while also coming up with our own storylines. There was also a lot of fun hijinx with the the different memory cards we all had. 

Claude "Big Hit" Baker always had old school tendencies. Steve Corino was a personal favorite at the time and an early influence on the character. I also watched a lot of territorial wrestling in 00-01 to get my alternative wrestling fix after the downfall of ECW. Anyway, I decided to double down on the old schoolness by giving him the most boring moveset of any CAW in history. I also made him pudgier and balding. He was supposed to suck. The other 3 did not get what I was doing, while Boo and I could barely contain our glee. The Claude character soon entered into a feud with my friend Bryan's "Hell's Guardian" character which culminated in a Loser Leaves Town match. I threw the match while pretending to play seriously (don't think anybody bought it though) and let myself get pinned after being chokeslammed off the Smackdown fist....

Only to have Boo insert his memory card with the new and improved "Countdown" Claude Vanity character we had secretly created! See, Boo's character was called Jack Vanity. And I had rebranded as his brother, Claude. I ditched most of the intentionally boring moves while still remaining more old school than new. My finishers were the Flash Magic (Shining Wizard) and either Christopher Daniels' Last Rites (I think the game called it the "Test Drive") or "The Final Countdown" Piledriver. I think Claude Baker used the Piledriver and Figure Four (which was now just a regular move in my arsenal). We got real heat with this! Our finisher was called Daze of Vanity from a line in a John Cougar Mellencamp song. It was my Flash Magic followed by Jack's Frog Splash. 

We did the Team Vanity thing for a while (years before the whole "Team X" thing became overused in wrestling, by the way) until intentionally losing another Loser Leaves Town match....only to once again pull memory card shenanigans so we could rebrand as the masked, silver-clad, “futuristic team" of Claud-Tor and Jak-Tron. This was my homage to the New Breed. Boo had never heard of them before meeting me, but he loved the concept once I explained it to him, and we soon HAD to concoct our own version.

At some point Boo and I had a kayfabe falling out (our real life drifting apart would come a few years later when he transformed into a boring college hipster) and my various Claude characters reached their final form as "Countdown" Claude Baker- my homage to both the old school wrestling I had loved growing up and the hair metal that had become my preferred musical genre in the early 2000s. In real life I had long bleach blonde hair which I'd let flow over the colorful bandanas I tied around my head in the style of a headband. I wore a leather jacket in winter and a jean jacket in fall and on cold spring days. Sadly never wore both at the same time a la HHH. I also had a pair of tight pleather pants which I only wore on special occasions. The "Countdown" Claude Baker character dressed in a similar manner, though in brighter colors. Look, it was hard to find neon clothes in the early 2000s! His look was a cross between my real life look and Steve Corino (who I kind of looked like anyway). The gimmick was basically to be the most obnoxious heel I could possibly be. It was mission accomplished if I got my friends to break kayfabe by laughing, or better yet, get genuinely annoyed with my antics. All my moves were named after hair metal songs....except for one, which was weirdly named after a Neil Diamond song. I spent a lot of time on my outfits and moveset. Certain moves were selected just because I had a song in mind to name them after- the "Round and Round" full rotation German Suplex immediately comes to mind. I really took it seriously. Unfortunately I only remember a handful of the move names today. Sent a PM to rad with a few of them last year when he first came up with the PW Fed concept. Best piece of attire my character had was this ridiculous...Pharaoh thingy around my neck. It was too big to be a neckless but too small to be a breastplate. So "Pharaoh thingy" it is.

To FINALLY answer your question lol, my moveset was inspired largely by the man in my avatar- "Beautiful" Bobby Eaton. This is when I thought long and hard about going to wrestling school in real life (remind me to tell you about the time Boo interviewed me about it for a class assignment). I wasn't athletic enough to effectively wrestle like Angle or Owen, but thought I just might be able to pull off a Bobby Eaton moveset. Eaton wasn't really that fancy anymore by early 2000s standards. He just did everything really, really well. The promos, taunts, rest of my moveset, and general heel character were largely inspired by Jacques Rougeau (going all the way back to the Team Vanity days) with bits of Owen, Angle, Flair, Corino, Lawler, Jarrett, Matt Hardy Version 1, and probably some others thrown in. HHH also deserves credit for my pre-match attire and some knee based moves.

TL;DR version- You could just say "Countdown" Claude Baker was a New Rockers gimmick done mostly unironically. The weird thing is I had always hated "rocker" gimmicks growing up. I didn't consider myself a rock fan. Growing up in the 90s will do that to ya. So acts like the Rockers, Van Hammer, Man Mountain Rock, etc. did nothing for me as a youngster. 

Did Baker-man just give away his shoot surname is something polish like Wojciechowski, Szczepanski, or... wait a minute... Zbyszko!?!?

When did triangle matches become popular?

Sept 9, 2021 22:13:12 GMT Ed said:

When did triangle matches become popular?

Mid-late 90s. Let's work through this real quick to see if I can pinpoint it to a more accurate date...

-First modern era one I know of came in early 1993 SMW with the Midnight Bodies vs. Rock & Roll Enforcers vs. Stud Stable.

-ECW had the famous Douglas/Funk/Sabu triple threat in early 1994. This is what really put the match type on the radar to smarks and established some common triple threat tropes. A year later they had a whole show called Three Way Dance. They ran more Triple Threats in general than WWF and WCW.

-First WCW one I can remember is Harlem Heat vs. Nasty Boys vs. Bluebloods in the summer of '95. I recall them running more Triple Threats than WWF over the next few years, but am blanking on most details. Think a few of their early "Triangle Matches" had wonky rules compared to what we're used to today.

-First WWF triple threat was actually a Bret/Michaels/Sid house show match in early 97. Thought the first televised one was a NATION EXPLODES Savio/Crush/Faarooq bout some time in 1997, but a quick search reveals it was actually Owen/HHH/Goldust from a few months earlier. 

Verdict- The match type picked up steam as a novelty throughout the mid 90s until becoming a regular part of mainstream wrestling shows in 98-99. 

I enjoyed them for what they were but did anybody else enjoy the WWF faction wars with NOD and the like?

Sept 9, 2021 23:11:56 GMT Ed said:

I enjoyed them for what they were but did anybody else enjoy the WWF faction wars with NOD and the like?

No. I thought it was terrible. The Nation eventually got good once The Rock came aboard and the other members found personalities, but they still sucked during the Gang Warz storyline. DOA and Los Boricuas were dead end stables who were 10x worse, and the Truth Commission was even worse than them. All the Gang Warz stuff would have been an instant flip over to Nitro had I not been such a diehard WWF fanboy. So instead it became the wrestling equivalent of eating my vegetables. 

Sept 5, 2021 23:16:17 GMT Baker said:

1. Peak ECW was really just a glorified territory. They only ran the Mid Atlantic/Northeast/Florida until like 1998. And you strike me as a guy who would love ECW. I mean, half the people who posted on StrictlyECW had screen names like Fapmaster69. So watch ECW tv if you can find it. No idea if it's on Youtube, which gets worse with each passing day, but try DailyMotion if you come up empty on Youtube. As for the traditional 80s territories...

Memphis is the best when it comes to STUFF HAPPENING every week. Their business model depended on putting on a big show every single week. So every episode of Memphis tv is like this wild and woolly PPV go home show. But your enjoyment of Memphis will largely depend on how you feel about Jerry Lawler. As a Lawlermaniac, I personally love it. But you should probably stay away if you're indifferent (or worse) towards The King. The 80s stuff is better than the 90s stuff. So Memphis is basically like music.

I don't like Mid South/UWF as much as most people, but that may be because of the way I watched it with their big show Arena footage interspersed with their weekly tv show. The Arena matches tended to be brutal 20 minute headlock and armbar fests. Their tv featured more star vs. star matches than most territories. It's also more of an ensemble cast. They never had that one almighty superstar the way Memphis had Lawler, WWF had Hogan, and NWA/WCW had Flair.

Crockett is sort of a mix of those two crossed with the more squash heavy WWF tv of the era. You can count on some great promos from the likes of Cornette, Dusty, and The Horsemen every week, and the occasional hot angle, but some of the shows are just a parade of squashes with nothing of note happening.

*No idea what is or isn't still available Youtube though. All I do know is a whole lot of good stuff has been pulled over the years.
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3. Oh gosh. There are so many. Thing is I almost never liked the top guys growing up and I rarely connected with the popular workrate godz of the Internet Era. So a ton of my personal favorites weren't over with the general public. Here are a Baker's dozen(ish) worth with the caveat that I could probably get to a hundred if pressed...

JBL/Bradshaw (if he counts given his impressive showing in PW's Favorite Wrestler Countdown)
"The Mountie" Jacques Rougeau
Jeff Jarrett
Larry Zbyszko
Quebecer Pierre/Jean Pierre Lafitte/PCO
Teddy Hart
Ludvig Borga
Honkytonk Man
Tommy Dreamer & Sandman (if they count. I figure both are borderline. Though neither did very well in PW's Favorite Wrestler countdown )
"The Genius" Lanny Poffo
Yokozuna (and most 400+ pounders from the 80s & 90s)
Lana Star
Scott Norton
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2. I'll answer later.

- I'm a huge mark in particular for RVD and Yoshihiro F'N Tajiri, both are high on my all-time favorites list. There's some boys in there like bWo (Stevie Richards in particular), too. Paul's up there with Corney and a select few as the greatest creative minds in the business. I do enjoy deathmatches in person but on screen I'm a lot more picky. I haven't but I need to watch ECW concurrently from 1996-99 instead of random PPV's at least once.

- From all the clips I've seen in summary videos I watch, NWA Mid Atlantic/Crockett looks like it'd be my one of my favorites actually (I loved Powerrr before Jim shit the bed on the mic and their momentum petered out). I find that studio style to be really entertaining and it feels more intimate, which is a big reason why I used Venue (#2, I think?) for PW Uploaded lol.

- I was 13 in 2002 when I started watching WWE, so I got creepy uncle and arch enemy of the Sexual Harassment Panda instead of classic King growing up. Damn shame as watching clips on Youtube blew my mind - Jerry is actually one of the best promos ever. I always hear Memphis was really cheesy, but I'm willing to give any wrestling from the 80's a shot and peak heel Lawler sounds damn fun.

- Workrate is only half the equation - wrestling is about the gimmicks too so I understand. I'll take Yoko over most other boring big guys just for the gimmick and Fuji. JBL is actually one of my favorite heels ever, he sounds like an asshole in real life so I easily hated the guy and enjoyed doing so. He also has the benefit of holding my favorite title belt ever. And you know we do not speak ill of Je-double F J-a-double r-e DOUBLE-T in this house. Honky Tonk Man is probably the only one on your list who gets X-Pac heat from me.

- Thank you Baker for the recommendations. I watched an '84 match between RnR vs. Midnight on my lunch break today because I've needed to watch more Bobby Eaton and your avatar reminded me. These crowds are also one of the biggest reasons I want to get more into 80's wrestling. Fucking amazing, Punk's return pop probably wasn't even as loud as some of these shows and that's the closest thing we have in a modern sense.

Great post rad.

I'm going to double down on my ECW recommendation since you've only seen the (usually underwhelming) pay per views. No idea what's readily available online for free, but something like February 95-Wrestlepalooza 97 is their peak imo. You might be able to go back a little further (haven't seen much '94 ECW myself), and some of the later stuff is still good, but I think they lost something in mid 97 with hot acts like Raven, Richards, and Saturn leaving pretty much all at once, and the Big Two doing a lot more ECW style stuff with bigger budgets.

Powerrr was still good after Cornette left. Man, I miss that era of NWA Powerrr Best wrestling promotion of the last 15 years. Alas, the magic is gone. I just can't get into it again, though I did some cursory searching to see if I could find the recent Aldis/Murdoch title change. Came up empty though.

Lawler was great as a heel commentator during the New Generation Era. This is going to blow your mind, but Lawler was usually a BABYFACE in Memphis. And not just any babyface, but one of the greatest babyfaces who ever lived. Few ever connected with their fans more than Lawler connected with the good people of Memphis.

Characters/Gimmicks > Workrate. Every single time. Any Double J fan is a friend of mine. Just found out WWE and JJ quietly parted ways earlier this year. That's a shame.

Yep. The red hot crowds who actually care about the characters, storylines, and wins/losses are a big part of the appeal when it comes to 80s wrestling. Same goes for the Attitude Era and peak ECW.

Triple threat is perfect to lose but not lose.