In less than a week I'll be discussing WCW on pduh's Let's Talk Podcast. Last night I began jotting down a few talking points for my upcoming appearance. Stuff like my WCW Origin Story and Favorite WCW wrestlers, matches, moments, shows, eras.

The one I really had fun with was Favorite WCW Moments. Now my list is extremely....Bakeriffic. And I'm not sure Pduh or anybody else will want to hear about all 17 (and counting) of these glorious moments. So maybe I'll post them right here in this very thread after March 26th. But in the meantime, whatchu got, PW?

Let's rock

Kicking us right off is the debut episode of Nitro from the Mall of America. Admittedly having a wrestling show smack dab in the middle of a shopping centre in 1995 dates the show something fierce but it still had some great ideas there. Liger/Pillman was the perfect opener for the new era of WCW and the big surprise at the end with Luger may have been the coolest thing Lex had done since bodyslamming Yoko.

I can't really pin point a specific moment, but just the debuts every week where you had guys like Sabu, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Dean Malenko, The Public Enemy, Madusa, Konnan, The Road Warriors, The Steiner Bros etc. Every episode felt like Christmas where you were getting the opportunity to see a new star and the matches usually did a good job of showcasing the talent.

Brian Pillman was a show stealer during the early days. Obviously the Clash of the Champions and Superbrawl moments stand-out but even the stuff in-between with Pillman just catching the Dungeon of Doom guys by surprise was pretty neat.

Lord Steven Regal and the Belfast Bruiser showing up all those hicks from Philadelphia with the best hardcore match in 1996 with that parking lot brawl. The true kings of hardcore.

That period where Hogan disappeared off television, allowing the Giant to win the WCW Championship and dominate the roster while Savage/Flair fought over Elizabeth. If I had to select the moment let's just give it to the Giant no-selling the figure four and hitting a Showstopper.

Scott Hall's return was so masterfully done. He just completely no-sells the presence of The Mauler and Steve Doll and just goes into business for himself and cuts one of the most famous promos in Pro Wrestling history.

The debut of Rey Mysterio at Great American Bash. It wasn't like he came in with huge fanfare, but after that match he was a star and you could just see a shift in the Cruiserweight division.

Of course Bash at the Beach was a huge deal with Hulk Hogan returning and turning heel. The one guy who could have possibly beaten The Outsiders has turned his back on all the kids and now there's nobody in WCW who could hope to compete with the nWo.

The shows afterwards are great as well in the parking lot of the Disney MGM while the Olympics are taking place. It just added to the surreal atmosphere at the time and gave us great moments like Nash loin-darting Rey into the trailer. I loved how after that each match became an unofficial lumberjack match so nobody else got attacked. It was so well put together, especially with Jimmy Hart coming out and interrupting a match to get everyone to help the victims in the back.

The lead up to the Fall Brawl PPV where Lex and Sting form an uneasy alliance with the IV Horsemen. Then mid-storyline the nWo leak a conversation between themselves and somebody who sounds exactly like Sting leading to them turning their backs on Sting. WarGames the babyfaces get their asses kicked only for Sting to wipe out the nWo by himself before leaving.

Jeff Jarrett debuting as WCW's savior and speaking mad trash about Sting, trying to get his way into the IV Horsemen and eventually getting there by getting the attention of Debra McMichael.

The nWo messing with Savage by having Elizabeth send him these videos of wanting to get back together and Savage ultimately giving in.

Piper-Hogan was usually hit or miss, but when it became about Hogan wanting to humble his arch nemesis and Piper refusing to back down that's when it really picked up. I could be fantasy booking this, but I'm pretty sure there's one time where Piper ran his mouth one time too many so Hogan ordered a gang hit on Piper infront of Roddy's son and there's nothing the WCW locker room could do.

There was a cool moment that didn't lead to anything where World War 3 1996 came down to Kevin Nash, Syxx, The Giant, Scott Hall & some other nWo guy, let's say Scott Norton vs. Lex Luger, Diamond Dallas Page, Jeff Jarrett, Lord Steven Regal & Rey Mysterio Jr. It was just a cool rag tag group of WCW guys which really should have amounted to more.

Roddy Piper training in Alcatraz in his rematch and first fully sanctioned match against Hollywood Hogan at Superbrawl 1997. I love unhinged Roddy and his absurd take on Rocky IV.

I'm pretty sure this was around the time Eric fired a referee for counting the pin in the Steiners successful win over The Outsiders at Souled Out? To make matters worse I think the referee also had cancer (I don't think it was Brian Hildenbrand either) so it was the ultimate heel act.

Sting returning at Uncensored and finally giving the babyfaces something to crow about by laying out the majority of the nWo leaving only Hogan setting up the biggest match in WCW history. So many Sting moments from this moment forward, there was not a cooler character on television, not even Stone Cold was as cool as the Stinger during this period. If he knew how to get a proper tan, he would have been a bigger badass too.

Curt Hennig coming out of retirement to join the Horsemen, only to turn on them and slam a cage door into Ric's head. One of the best heel turns of that era and it's a shame they never really capitilised on the program. Even then, that bad blood lasted well over a year and bled into other Horsemen programs like Benoit/Malenko vs. Hennig/Windham.

The debut of Goldberg, a guy they purposely didn't tell the commentators anything about and just let his performance do the talking. He kicks out of a finisher on debut, hits a backflip at one point and hits the spear which would become a staple in wrestling. When he wins he turns to the camera while the referee is trying to lift his arm and just goes 'that's one'. Such a cool moment.

Raven coming up with another version of getting over while losing by smiling while he passes out to the Crippler Crossface.

Goldberg winning the US Championship in one of Raven's best smoke and mirrors match, the crowd for this is insane.

Goldberg winning the WCW Championship after beating a returning Scott Hall and beating Hogan later in the night.

Warrior to Hogan 'On that night you were Immortal...but I was Ultimate!' it was a 20 minute rant but that one line alone saved it.

Billy Kidman helping Saturn beat Raven at Fall Brawl and then winning the Cruiserweight Championship the next night in a great match against Juvi. Another star-making performance and Kidman was the hot thing there for a minute.

Same episode (one of the best of the Monday Night Wars) but after months of teasing it out, the IV Horsemen return with McMichael, Benoit, Malenko and Anderson. Right as the segment appears to be wrapping up, Arn apologises and introduces Ric Flair who'd been off television for 6 months to a huge applause. It was one of the last head to heads WCW ever won. That was probably the last good Flair segment in WCW before they went and turned him into a joke.

DDP escaping a Jackhammer and hitting a Diamond Cutter to create an awesome near-fall. The near-fall felt earned as well with Page just waiting half a second too long to get the cover.

Jericho talking mad trash about Goldberg under the pretense he was going to face off against his version of Gillberg only for Goldberg to make his way to ring-side with 'Gillberg' on his shoulder as Jericho is none the wiser.

Goldberg spearing Bret Hart only for Bret to reveal he was wearing a steel plate. Such a cool idea.

Sting defeating Diamond Dallas Page for the WCW Championship in the opening segment. They basically had the exact same match as the year prior, but everybody performed so much better that it was one of the best WCW Championship matches in history. One of those few moments where you just wonder if they could have called an audible during the show and just keep the belt on Sting and go with a DDP/Sting rematch at Slamboree.

Goldberg and Sid Vicious having a surprisingly good brawl at Halloween Havoc where Sid got crazy over for peaking the Muta scale with his blade job.

Just an infamous PW example, but during the WCW Mayhem tournament it seemed like Heenan made a bet with somebody that he'd get Lash LeRoux over and after all these years it still sticks out. Lash was another guy who got the Scott Hall 'bump' with 1-2-3 Kid, Hector Garza, Chris Jericho and Hiroshi Tanahashi being other guys Hall really tried to put over.

Kanyon popularising the RKO out of nowhere meme 15 years before it resurfaced during his parody of DDP. My favourite is the wide angle of him hitting it on a pedestrian while he's walking down a set of steps.

Big Pete coming through with the kind of content I was hoping for when creating this thread. We'll see if I have the willpower to refrain from posting my own batch of favorite WCW moments over the next six days.

Big Pete I would like to add DDP not joining the NWO and hitting the diamond cutter on Hall, escaping from Nash, and going out through the crowd.

The time has come at last to share my 25 Favorite WCW Moments. That means stuff I responded to in a positive "mark out moment" sort of way. A few ground rules before I post my list...

-WCW had just as many memorable moments that I responded to in a neutral or negative "boo this man" sort of way...
Hogan's heel turn
Hall's debut
Nash powerbombs Bischoff through a table
Vader powerbombs Cactus on the floor
The fake Midnight Express attack the real Midnights
The Horsemen give Orndorff a career ending spike piledriver
Just to name a few. Memorable though all that stuff undoubtedly is, they all missed my list due to a wording quirk in the thread title since none of them could be considered a favorite WCW moment. 

-This is WCW only. Meaning no NWA stuff. The Turner regime took over around October 1988. So I'm using that as the cutoff date. 

-No complete matches. Finishes, entrances, and moves within a match count. But no entire matches because a match is much longer than a moment. 

-Went with the original show/airdate but first saw many of these on Worldwide recap videos. A few of them I didn't see until years later on tape.

-I unironically like a lot of so-called Wrestlecrap.

-Keep in mind this is just the opinion of one weirdo. What I popped for isn't necessarily what made other people mark out. Without further ado...

1. Flair returns- shoots on Bischoff- Nitro 9/14/98
2. Flair beats Vader for the WCW Championship- Starrcade 1993
3. Malenko beats Otani for the Cruiserweight Championship on Worldwide- Worldwide 5/18/96
4. Flair vs. Steamboat: Final Countdown hype video- Wrestle War 1989*
5. Funk piledrives Flair on a table- Wrestle War 1989**

6. Paul Orndorff meets Gary Spivey- becomes Wonderful again- Fall Brawl 1995***
7. Mongo shocks the world by joining the Horsemen- Great American Bash 1996
8. Arn pins Hogan- Nitro 2/12/96
9. Cactus beats Vader- Saturday Night 4/17/93
10. Hulk Hogan/Dungeon of Doom "It's Not Hot" promo featuring a debuting(?) Giant- Saturday Night 7/22/95****

11. Black Scorpion entrance- Starrcade 1990
12. John Tenta is a man- Nitro 6/3/96
13. Benoit beats Sullivan- Arn then joins his fellow Horseman to stomp a mudhole in the Taskmaster- Great American Bash 1996
14. A History of the Blue Bloods- Saturday Night 12/30/95
15. Beach Blast 93 mini-movie- Saturday Night 6/19/93

16. Paul Orndorff makes quick work of Disco Inferno after Disco has the gall to glance in Wonderful's mirror- Worldwide 12/16/95
17. Jim Cornette turns on the Dynamic Dudes to stay with the Midnight Express- Clash of the Champions November 1989
18. Flair vs. Funk entrances- Great American Bash 1989
19. Cactus & Sullivan beat the Nasty Boys with some Dave Sullivan & Maxx Payne involvement- Slamboree 1994
20. Flair defeats Funk + post match brawl- Great American Bash 1989

21. Midnight Express defeat Original Midnight Express- Starrcade 1988
22. The Giant dropkicks Chris Benoit- Clash of the Champions August 1996
23. The Skyscrapers win a two ring Battle Royal- Great American Bash 1989
24. Only Muta can prevent cage fires- Halloween Havoc 1989
25 tie. Maxx Payne shoots Johnny B. Badd with his own stupid Badd Blaster- Clash of the Champions June 1993
25 tie. Scott Norton & Ice Train form a badass hoss team after wrestling each other to two draws in one day- Saturday Night 2/24/96

-Forgot a moment that definitely deserved to be on the list. Was loathe to cut anything. Hence the cop out tie at #25. 

*May have aired on tv before Wrestle War. 

**Kind of breaking my own rule here as this was more of a neutral or negative moment. But it was also a pivotal moment in my wrestling fandom. So I'll just say it was grandfathered in for kicking off the 2nd greatest feud of all time, getting me hooked on both guys, and making WCW true must see tv for the first time.

***Pretty sure an even better version of this moment took place on Worldwide or Saturday Night where the Fall Brawl segment aired in full and was immediately followed by Wonderful entering to his all time great theme. But a quick search came up empty. So we'll go with Fall Brawl...for now.

****Saw it two weeks after the fact on Worldwide. First non-Regal/BlueBloods WCW thing to capture my interest in a year. The DoD was the logical end point for where wrestling had been heading over the previous 8+ years. Basically a live action Saturday morning cartoon....on drugs. Loved the concept. Wasn't so keen on much of the DoD personnel. 

This post is already long enough so I'm not providing explanations for all 25 right now. But rest assured I have a storytime for each and every one of them. Maybe later?

^

The Giant actually made a brief appearance at Slamboree '95 during the Hogan/Savage vs. Flair/Vader main event standing in the entrance way before leaving. Interesting list as always. This seems like a mountain of a topic for me to tackle, I will post something here eventually.

I also have to share this, mostly for the Travis Heckl artwork.

Sids Millennium Man gimmick was awesome and Luger winning the title from Hogan!

For all those who listened to pduh's podcast about the wcw anniversary. This is the moment I was talking about with I need a hero. lol 

Apr 2, 2021 3:16:47 GMT Da Gr8t I Is said:

For all those who listened to pduh's podcast about the wcw anniversary. This is the moment I was talking about with I need a hero. lol 

I listened up to about the 2-hour mark or so whenever Baker dropped. Wherever the Baker-man goes, the slice of 🤯 follows. Actually, in reality, I couldn't tolerate Anchor's glitch anymore where it gets progressively worse with overlapping audio to the point guests are answering questions minutes before pduh even asks them. Considering all his troubles with Anchor, I highly recommend pduh explore evolving and trying out a new/better app or platform or whatever.

Anyway, technical issues and complaints aside, the four of you had tremendous chemistry and I really enjoyed listening. Had me wishing I was a part of the convo, even though my WCW knowledge is virtually nonexistent. You guys covered so much good ground, and yet left so much more to cover. Can't wait for a Part 2 if one is eventually coming. In the meantime, this thread will certainly make do!

using Baker criteria going back to Turner taking over. I have to go back to Starrcade 88 and Rick Steiner beating Mike Rotundo for the TV title.

Apr 3, 2021 2:20:49 GMT bodyslam said:

using Baker criteria going back to Turner taking over. I have to go back to Starrcade 88 and Rick Steiner beating Mike Rotundo for the TV title.

Wish they would bring back the manager in the shark cage match.

So before resuscitating the Rebook a Card thread, let me post this here...

A little hobby project I've been working on in the few minutes of down time I get here and there over the past few weeks has strangely been to revisit and rebook Hulk Hogan's WCW debut through the formation of the nWo, turning the period into a more polished and perfected Hogan & Friends Dream Match World Tour.

I know some things from reality during this period were well regarded enough or even outright loved that I should leave them be. But not having watched in real time or having ever watched much WCW in retrospect, it's hard to gauge what should be left alone and respected versus what's ripe for tampering.

To be clear, when I say Hogan & Friends Dream Match World Tour, I don't necessarily mean doing things like keeping Austin and Pillman around and happy and pushed and programmed against Hogan. I still like the reality challenge of working around real life injuries and disgruntled and/or misused talent going to WWF and ECW.

What I'm envisioning is more like Hogan/Flair, Hogan/Vader, Hogan/Savage, Hogan/Quake, Hogan/Boss, Beefcake never turning heel, Hogan and BFFs Beefcake and Nasty Boys bastardizing War Games as a team, Hogan partnering with idol Dusty as the Real American Dream Team against the likes of Flair and Funk, Hogan/Luger, Hogan/Giant, etc.

Honestly, the main event scene with Hogan seems easy enough to manage. Where I get more lost and confused is the under card. So... I turn to you, my brother and sister pro wrestling historians of PW and in particular WCW fans, what do I need to know about 1994-1996 WCW from a fan perspective and otherwise?

Alright the unofficial history of WCW according to Big Pete.

Outside of Hulkamania, Macho Man Randy Savage debuted and inducted his father into the WCW Hall of Fame at Slamboree 1995. However since Flair couldn't help himself, Ric was like 'him? really? who's next? Koko B Ware' and Macho took that personally. They feuded on and off, Ric Flair revealed he was dating Elizabeth but for reals this time. Macho Man was none amused and got himself suspended for constantly trying to kill Ric in 1996. Then Ric started talking trash about the NFL which is how we got Mongo/Greene, but really it was just a way to induct Mongo as a Horseman by doing an old fashioned Horseman swerve. Then for over a year Greene swore vengeance on Mongo, all year when he was training with the Carolina Panthers he swore he'd get his bear on that no-good Mongo!

Diamond Dallas Page beat the Renegade (Fake Ultimate Warrior) for the WCW TV Championship to make a name for himself. However before he could really make a name for himself, mid-carder Johnny B Badd beat him for the belt. So DDP would challenge Badd to a rematch and every subsequent match he'd put something on the line. First it was his money, then it was Kimberly. Badd eventually left the company so DDP thought he'd regain everything only for The Booty Man to come in and beat him. DDP then mysteriously won a million dollars followed by Battle Bowl and turned his career around.

Ric and Arn pretended to have a falling out just to pull one over on Sting for old times sake. Along with Brian Pillman they reformed the Horseman. Pillman then suggested a guy he knew from Stampede as the forth member the silent but violent Chris Benoit. Then Pillman got hyped up on the Horseman lifestyle (cocaine and hookers) and started to think his whole life was like The Truman Show and was constantly doing outrageous shit to get cancelled. Or in other words get more money than Luger. The plan worked, but then he got involved in a motorcycle accident and he just never got off the ride. Kevin Sullivan who had formed an uneasy alliance with the Horseman had enough of Pillman's shit and rubbed his 'firing' in Benoit's face. Benoit took exception and that kick-started one of the biggest feuds in WCW history.

Lex Luger who happened to be buying hair products at the Mall of America stumbled on the Hogan/Bossman match and watched on with bemusement. Lex clearly thought it was a 4/10 match. Sensing an opportunity Sting fought hard to get his buddy a contract with WCW and made it happen which allowed them to reform their tag team. This was a great deal because everyone but Sting knew Lex was a dick, even Lex knew he was a dick but just played along with Sting and did the goody goody stuff despite being represented by the biggest scumbag in all of Pro Wrestling Jimmy Hart.

What else? Sherri Martel got married to Col. Robert Parker, Madusa was not impressed.

WCW had a rivalry going on with NJPW. One of their heavyweights Kensuke Sasaki captured the US Championship from Sting and held it captive leading into the WCW vs. NJPW series at Starrcade 1995. They quickly dropped this angle by double-crossing Sasaki and filming two finishes in a match with the One Man Gang. One with Sasaki going over, the other with the One Man Gang which of course they showed their audience.

The stuff involving Harlem Heat, The Blue Bloods, American Males, Alex Wright, Dick Slater, Paul Orndorff, Brad Armstrong etc. is currently eluding me.

Apr 2, 2021 3:16:47 GMT Da Gr8t I Is said:

For all those who listened to pduh's podcast about the wcw anniversary. This is the moment I was talking about with I need a hero. lol 

I love how enthusiastic Rey Mysterio is of all people to play that clip.

Another one that they were obsessed with playing was Roddy Piper's I'm Your Man from the early 90s.

They'd play the entire clip and it's for the brief footage of Hogan vs. Piper on the marquee.

Heenan: Roddy has wanted that rematch for years!

Apr 4, 2021 16:13:52 GMT Big Pete said:

Apr 2, 2021 3:16:47 GMT Da Gr8t I Is said:

For all those who listened to pduh's podcast about the wcw anniversary. This is the moment I was talking about with I need a hero. lol 

I love how enthusiastic Rey Mysterio is of all people to play that clip.

Another one that they were obsessed with playing was Roddy Piper's I'm Your Man from the early 90s.

They'd play the entire clip and it's for the brief footage of Hogan vs. Piper on the marquee.

Heenan: Roddy has wanted that rematch for years!

Big Pete you took me back with this one lol

Apr 4, 2021 13:14:44 GMT 🤯 said:

A little hobby project I've been working on in the few minutes of down time I get here and there over the past few weeks has strangely been to revisit and rebook Hulk Hogan's WCW debut through the formation of the nWo

Hope you go through with this. I have lots of thoughts that I'm too tired to share right now. Maybe tomorrow I'll do just that along with filling in some of the blanks Big Pete was unable to cover.

As 🤯 probably remembers, I did a half-hearted rush job rebooking of 1994 WCW a few years back that I was never really satisfied with.

It's weird how I loathed the 14 month period from Hogan's debut through Nitro's debut yet have very few ideas on how to make it better. Chalk it up to a weak roster, I suppose.

I liked the year and a half preceding that period, and the year that followed, but run into the opposite problem with rebooking these periods I enjoyed by having too many ideas I am desperate to cram in.

I've toyed around with skipping the 14 month Dork Age due to lack of ideas and starting with the debut of Nitro where I inevitably run into the opposite problem of too many ideas.

Anyway, to fill in the blanks left by Big Pete...

Brad Armstrong was a jobber with music. Think the the mid 90s WCW equivalent to WWF's Aldo Montoya and Bob Holly.

Alex Wright- Had a lengthy undefeated streak in 94-95. Kilgore once theorized it was the longest of any homegrown WCW guy until Goldberg. I agreed. But it never lead to anything. Wright's biggest wins during that period came against Jean Paul Levesque and Paul Roma. Neither man mattered much in the grand scheme of things. Nor did Wright win any titles. Wright peaked with that undefeated streak. Within a few months of losing his first match he was phased down the card due to WCW hiring better wrestlers and more entertaining characters during the spending spree which accompanied Nitro. 

Paul Orndorff- Teamed with Paul Roma throughout 94 until Roma was fired in early 95 for going into business for himself against the aforementioned Alex Wright. Orndorff tread water for about 7 months until hooking up with Gary Spivey in one of my all time favorite WCW angles. Then he became the gloriously over the top "Mr. Wonderful On Positive Thinking" character. I cannot really do this character justice. I unironically think it is one of the best things WCW ever did. Just go watch some late '95 Orndorff on Youtube or The Network. Check out all the Gary Spivey segments. Listen to his theme. Watch the match with Disco on the 12/16/95 edition of Worldwide and the tragic Horsemen angle on the 12/11/95 installment of Nitro. 

The 1995 Tag Team Scene largely revolved around a Harlem Heat vs. Nasty Boys feud which seemed to last forever. Nastys then entered into another forever feud with Public Enemy which spanned most of 1996. Heat were theoretically the aces of the WCW tag division after the Nastys feud but were done a disservice by a booking committee which had them trade the tag titles with the nothing happening duos of the American Males and Bunkhouse Buck & Dick Slater.

The Males showed up around the debut of Nitro and almost immediately upset Harlem Heat for the tag titles. Bagwell teamed with The Patriot for about a year in 94-95 until Scotty Riggs replaced the departing Patriot. I'm a little foggy on Slater myself, but I think Dirty Dick started teaming with fellow elderly Southerner Bunkhouse Buck upon returning to WCW once again some time in 1995. Slater & Buck feuded with Harlem Heat in a storyline which largely revolved around their respective managers, Heat's Sister Sherri and Team Methuselah's Colonel Robert Parker.

The Blue Bloods were the most entertaining of all these teams. So of course they were the one team to never capture the tag titles because WCW. They had the best (only good?) sports entertainment segments during the year preceding the Dungeon of Doom and Orndorff. You want to watch all the Blue Bloods segments. But for lazy people the 12/30/95 edition of Saturday Night has a pretty good History of the Blue Bloods segment. Blue Bloods briefly inserted themselves into the ongoing Heat/Nastys saga. It could have lead to some cool culture clash stuff between the three wildly different teams. But I don't think WCW did much with it. 

*The secondary title scene was a bit of mess throughout 94-96. I'd have done things a lot differently. So you'll have plenty of room to play with there. 

So, I feel like you guys are helping me out a lot with 1995 and early 1996... But the meat of 1994 seems to be missing still. Was it truly so bad that everyone was tuning out?

/////

As far as the tag team division goes, it seems like the Nasty Boys' year. First as heels having fun matches with Cactus Jack, Maxx Payne, and Kevin Sullivan. Sucks Payne and then Cactus had to depart to ruin the fun. Seems like Nasty Boys abruptly/randomly turned face during the Cactus/Kevin stuff?

Then I'm confused why Harlem Heat goes from a main event War Games match in late 1993 to virtually MIA from PPV and Clash cards until late 1994. What's the story there? Just racism plaguing WCW?

Pretty Wonderful seemed to be a random thing for far too long, as did Stars 'n' Stripes... But did SnS at least have an interesting hook? Like, Bagwell was looking for a replacement partner for Scorpio... Right? So was Patriot's debut/reveal treated with any kind of buildup?

The Bad Attitude tag team of Steve Keirn & Bobby Eaton seems like it should've been way more of a thing based on the talent involved. Then was there a Badd Company/Orient Express reprisal with Pat Tanaka and Paul Diamond too? Seems like the tag division was a little heel heavy now that I'm thinking about it. Aside from Cactus Jack's makeshift teams, and jobber Armstrong Bros combos, I'm understanding why the Nasty Boys turned face.

Then there was at least a brief run of pre-Godwinns Tex Slazenger & Shanghai Pierce. Did they disappear mid-1994 because Henry O. Godwinn was prepping for his WWF debut? And later in the year it seemed the incoming Terry Funk (on loan from ECW?) partnered often enough with Bunkhouse Buck to make me think there was a real missed opportunity in not calling them the Funkin' Bucks.

Any other tag teams or key beats from 1994 I'm missing?

/////

Mid card title scene did seem to be a mess. Hell, even sorting out the world title unification was a bit of a convoluted deal considering the hot potato between Rude and Sting with the international title. Wondering if it's feasible to just have Hogan come in and wrestle a show sooner to squash Rude for the international title before then defeating Flair the next month to unify both world titles.

Anyway... The U.S. title bouncing between Steamboat and Austin before getting shunted to Duggan for sure sticks out. What were the former Hollywood Blondes doing in 1994? Had they feuded with each other already? Pillman seems to be back on the face side of things in 1994, and Austin is sometimes in/sometimes out of the Stud Stable? The smark in me would love, if they haven't feuded yet, to possibly get the TV title onto Pillman to set up a Hollywood Blonde Blowout pitting Champion vs. Champion at a Clash of the Champions. I also like the idea too of using the U.S. title as a consolation prize for Sting, who seems to wind up the most fucked over by Hogan's arrival.

Meanwhile, there's part of me that really likes the idea of pissing of old school fans and smarks by really doubling down on the Hogan & Friends theme with something like Boss battling Avalanche over the U.S. Title and Beefcake going at it with Honky Tonk Man over the TV Title? Something that fits the theme of angering young good talent like Austin, Pillman, Dustin, Mero, Regal, Levesque, etc. into seeking a way out of WCW ASAP.

Apr 5, 2021 15:00:00 GMT 🤯 said:

So, I feel like you guys are helping me out a lot with 1995 and early 1996... But the meat of 1994 seems to be missing still. Was it truly so bad that everyone was tuning out?

1994 WCW is a year of extreme transition. The first half is nothing like the second half. They phased out WCW's cool "New Generation" in favor of WWF retreads who had peaked years earlier. It may have been slightly good for business, but I personally hated it. Never has my interest in a promotion plummeted so quickly. It went from like an 8/10 to a 1/10 pretty much overnight. Even my declining interest in 2000 ECW was more like a rock slowly picking up steam as it rolled down a hill.

Anyway, core upper midcarders from previous years like Rude, Steamboat, Cactus and Simmons disappeared. Others like Austin, Dustin, and arguably Pillman (who had already been trending downward) were quickly downgraded. While interesting up and coming midcarders who I had pegged as future stars like Scorpio, Maxx Payne, Ice Train, and even the Texicans also disappeared.

In their place came a wave of dated talent from 1990 WWF that I no longer had any interest in.

94 was the Nasty Boys year in the tag division just as 95 would be Harlem Heat's year. Nastys were huge heels during the feud with Cactus and Friends though. That's what made the good guys' victory at Slamboree '94 so satisfying. I think the Nastys turned face when the Rhodes' recruited them at a bar because they were looking for the nastiest dudes they could find to help them in their war with the Stud Stable. But I could be wrong about that.

Harlem Heat being in the War Games '93 main event was actually a weird anomaly. They had only been with the company for like 2 months. In real time I thought it was super random and weird. Ditto for The Shockmaster and another chap called The Equalizer (Dave Sullivan) who found himself in a high profile Clash or PPV tag match very early on in his run. Harlem Heat doing nothing for '94 is yet another reason why I've always considered them WCW's version of the Smoking Gunns. Both teams were strictly midcard until finally getting pushes in '95 through a combination of veteran status and no other decent teams left to push.

I don't remember the Stars 'N Stripes origin story but the team came about because Bagwell needed a new partner after Scorpio left. Patriot was available so they just paired him with Bagwell and had Marcus adopt his new partner's patriotic gimmick. 

Patriot arrived in early '94 and immediately feuded with Regal over the TV Title. I just mentioned this in another thread. Thought Patriot was a lock to dethrone Regal in the style of Warrior rolling through HTM. It inexplicably never happened and they put Patriot with Bagwell a short time later. 

Bad Attitude was meh. The build had Bobby Eaton carrying around a (magical?) sparkly jacket. Beautiful Bobby was looking for a new partner who would fit in the jacket. It turned out to be Steve Keirn which meant absolutely nothing to 1994 Baker. Yeah, Steve Keirn was basically the WCW version of Cinderella. The team went nowhere. Nobody noticed or cared.

I didn't even know Badd Company (or the Fantastics) had runs in 1994 WCW until combing through show results for my fanfic project in like 2014. Again, those names would have meant little to me in 1994 anyway. Probably did see them but instantly forgot. Both seemed to have basically just been jobber teams with music. WCW would do this a lot in the 90s- bring in 'name' veterans for short stretches just to put the real stars over.

The Texicans were cult favorites.....if you consider me a cult of one lol. I was HUGELY into their feud with Erik Watts over a trophy! That feud ended up becoming the catalyst for the (temporarily) career killing Dustin Rhodes vs. Bunkhouse Buck feud. 

Dustin and Austin had basically been booked as the "WCW New Generation" version of 03-04 Cena and Orton. Even as a know nothing young fan with no real interest in either guy I assumed they were destined to be WCW's next big stars. Then Dustin entered into an endless feud with senior citizen looking Bunkhouse Buck whose finisher was a punch. Now this feud does have its fans, but it was BORING to me, and temporary death to Dustin's career. Buck was a HUGE step down from Dustin's previous feuds with Windham, Rude, and Austin- legends all. Once that feud finished up after what felt like 10 years later, Dustin entered into an EVEN WORSE feud with a jabroni called The Blacktop Bully (Demolition Smash as a loud, angry trucker). 

Oh, and I think Shanghai Pierce going to WWF to become HOG is what killed the Texicans. I think Tex Slazenger (Mideon) was used as an occasional 'name' jobber, but received no sort of push.

Speaking of no push, Brian Pillman may have done even less of note than 1994 Harlem Heat. 

Austin had a pretty lengthy run with the US Title which included the critically acclaimed Steamboat matches. But I personally don't remember much about. He was with Colonel Parker for a while....until he wasn't? Then he lost the title to Duggan in a squash and I think disappeared with injuries(?) for a pretty long while after that.

Arn was a babyface early in the year before turning on Dustin because of course an Anderson is going to turn on a Rhodes.

To really get over how little WCW I watched during the second half of the year, I didn't even remember Terry f'n Funk having a 1994 WCW run! Looks like he was a part of Parker's Stud Stable who occasionally teamed with Bunkhouse Buck and Arn.

Sting! STING! WCW's biggest homegrown star! And I barely remember anything he did in 1994! Ditto for Vader, who owned 1993. 

Yeah, 1994 WCW was awful. How do you let Sting and Vader get lost in the shuffle??

Jean Paul Levesque was completely forgettable. He was just a low card heel. Basically just a bad guy jobber with music in the style of a Rad Radford or Skip. 

I strongly disapprove of your idea to go even harder with the played out ex-WWF stars over WCW's cool crop of young homegrown talent. Zero buys!

More.

Meng debuted as Colonel Robert Parker's* bodyguard at....some point. Felt like he was around a year before finally wrestling a match, but it couldn't possibly have been that long. Anyway, I bought into the gimmick.... at first. He certainly looked the part of stoic badass bodyguard with the shades, suit, and 90s ponytail. I don't remember which babyface was involved in the incident, but a good guy once knocked off Meng's sunglasses and disheveled his hair in a brawl. Instantly killed the gimmick for me. "That's Haku! LOL. Haku sucks!"

Until then I had no idea Meng had been Haku! You have to understand this was many years before all the "Haku is wrestling's Chuck Norris meme!" shoot interview stuff. All I knew was Haku had been a forgettable career midcarder in WWF. So WCW pushing Meng as this badass monster heel suddenly became laughable to me.

*Hadn't realized how important Colonel Robert Parker was to 1994 WCW until this series of posts. Turns out he was basically their Bobby Heenan. Dude seemed to be involved in everything. I had no idea!

Big Bossman spent 1994 going through an identity crisis. He started out as The Boss. Then he became The Guardian Angel before finally settling on Big Bubba. I know he started out as a babyface. Then I think he briefly went 1994 style tweener before finally going full fledged heel. 

The original Faces of Fear were the lead heel stable in late 94-early 95. This has nothing to do with Meng & Barbarian. WCW would just recycle the name a mere year later. This version consisted of Kevin Sullivan, The Butcher (Brutus Beefcake) and Avalanche (Earthquake). Big Bubba may have also been a member...or at least an associate. Can't remember for sure. That stable was as bad in reality as it looks on paper. It's claim to fame beyond giving Meng & Barbarian their future  tag team name is being an embryonic version of the Dungeon of Doom. 

My sole recollection of '94 was watching John Paul Levesque working Saturday Night matches and a handful of Steamboat matches. Spring Stampede 1994 is one of the greatest PPVs in WCW history but it also signals the end of that era and the start of the American Made Hogan era which I've actively been trying to forget. Although like Mongo, the Doomsday Cage Match is worming it's way into becoming a great WCW match. When the fate of the two biggest stars in Pro Wrestling history is decided by somebody called THE BOOTY MAN (read that in Alvarez' cadence) then you're already well on your way to eight stars or whatever the richter scale says.

That and the Austin/Steamboat match is one of my favourite textbook heel/face matches.

Thank you gents for helping to flesh out and add some flavor to the tale of two halves that was WCW's 1994.

Was WCW really that random with its booking for Brian Pillman to go from awesome hot heel in the Hollywood Blondes to do nothing face fueled by false promises of a cruiserweight championship to worked shoot loose cannon tweener Horseman in the span of like 1.5 years?

I read some article talking about how the Dustin Rhodes/Bunkhouse Buck was the midcard glue that held WCW together in 1994. Is that hyberbole then, based on Baker-man's reaction? Col. Robert Parker certainly does seem to be 1994 WCW's Bobby Heenan or at least Jimmy Hart or Jim Cornette if I'm drawing WWF parallels.

For my project, it's a shame how quickly HTM was in and out of WCW. Really wanted to give him a TV title run to rival his historic IC title reign.

Also trying to find a way to hot shot a Ric Flair/Arn Anderson reunion, get the tag belts on them, the U.S. belt on Beefcake, and run a double or nothing tag team main event at a Clash or something where the Mega Maniacs pick up all the gold. Convince me to swap out Beefcake for Savage if you are so bold.

Apr 7, 2021 1:42:18 GMT 🤯 said:

1. Was WCW really that random with its booking for Brian Pillman 

2. I read some article talking about how the Dustin Rhodes/Bunkhouse Buck was the midcard glue that held WCW together in 1994. Is that hyberbole then, based on Baker -man's reaction?

3. For my project, it's a shame how quickly HTM was in and out of WCW.

4. Really wanted to give him a TV title run to rival his historic IC title reign.

5. Also trying to find a way to hot shot a Ric Flair/Arn Anderson reunion, get the tag belts on them, the U.S. belt on Beefcake, and run a double or nothing tag team main event at a Clash or something where the Mega Maniacs pick up all the gold. Convince me to swap out Beefcake for Savage if you are so bold.

1. Extremely. The only Pillman thing I remembered between the short-lived Austin feud and his Fall Brawl 95 interference (which kickstarted the Loose Cannon gimmick) is a feud with the forgotten Mongolian Mauler which lasted like two weeks. A quick search reveals only a few PPV appearances (where he was on the winning side in a 6 man tag, drew with Regal, and lost to Wright) and it doesn't look like he had any other feuds during that stretch.

2. I'd say it's hyperbole but this one isn't quite as cut and dry as the Pillman question. The Rhodes/Buck feud does have its fans, but it lasted forever, I personally couldn't have cared less, and I still maintain it derailed the momentum Dustin had built up over the previous few years. He went from feuds with Windham, Rude, Austin, and a lengthy US Title reign, to going 50/50 with a middle aged noob on the national scene. I suppose I could see an argument for it since it did involve a lot of other characters. BUT that article said Rhodes/Buck was the "midcard glue that held WCW together in 1994." Wrong! Because WCW wasn't held together at all in 1994! In fact, it fell apart right around the time Dustin & Buck began their forever feud. 

3. It wasn't really working out anyway. Even I, HTM fan extraordinaire, failed to get excited about my first wrestling hero returning beyond that initial one week burst of excitement (pretty sure I found out HTM returned via my best friend at the time Matt The IRS Fan). HTM's shtick just didn't really work anymore (see also: his many short-lived WWF returns). Wrong place. Wrong time. Fwiw Bischoff is on record saying firing HTM is the most satisfying firing he ever made  :lol:

4. Why bother with HTM when you've got Regal right there already in the midst of a great HTM style TV Title reign?

5. Beefcake, YUCK! Zero buys for that whole scenario. Savage over Beefcake because it's RANDY SAVAGE vs. Brutus Beefcake. What more do you need? Starting to think you've been a closet Barber fan all these years....

Apr 7, 2021 2:07:08 GMT Baker said:

Apr 7, 2021 1:42:18 GMT 🤯 said:

1. Was WCW really that random with its booking for Brian Pillman 

2. I read some article talking about how the Dustin Rhodes/Bunkhouse Buck was the midcard glue that held WCW together in 1994. Is that hyberbole then, based on Baker -man's reaction?

3. For my project, it's a shame how quickly HTM was in and out of WCW.

4. Really wanted to give him a TV title run to rival his historic IC title reign.

5. Also trying to find a way to hot shot a Ric Flair/Arn Anderson reunion, get the tag belts on them, the U.S. belt on Beefcake, and run a double or nothing tag team main event at a Clash or something where the Mega Maniacs pick up all the gold. Convince me to swap out Beefcake for Savage if you are so bold.

1. Extremely. The only Pillman thing I remembered between the short-lived Austin feud and his Fall Brawl 95 interference (which kickstarted the Loose Cannon gimmick) is a feud with the forgotten Mongolian Mauler which lasted like two weeks. A quick search reveals only a few PPV appearances (where he was on the winning side in a 6 man tag, drew with Regal, and lost to Wright) and it doesn't look like he had any other feuds during that stretch.

2. I'd say it's hyperbole but this one isn't quite as cut and dry as the Pillman question. The Rhodes/Buck feud does have its fans, but it lasted forever, I personally couldn't have cared less, and I still maintain it derailed the momentum Dustin had built up over the previous few years. He went from feuds with Windham, Rude, Austin, and a lengthy US Title reign, to going 50/50 with a middle aged noob on the national scene. I suppose I could see an argument for it since it did involve a lot of other characters. BUT that article said Rhodes/Buck was the "midcard glue that held WCW together in 1994." Wrong! Because WCW wasn't held together at all in 1994! In fact, it fell apart right around the time Dustin & Buck began their forever feud. 

3. It wasn't really working out anyway. Even I, HTM fan extraordinaire, failed to get excited about my first wrestling hero returning beyond that initial one week burst of excitement (pretty sure I found out HTM returned via my best friend at the time Matt The IRS Fan). HTM's shtick just didn't really work anymore (see also: his many short-lived WWF returns). Wrong place. Wrong time. Fwiw Bischoff is on record saying firing HTM is the most satisfying firing he ever made  :lol:

4. Why bother with HTM when you've got Regal right there already in the midst of a great HTM style TV Title reign?

5. Beefcake, YUCK! Zero buys for that whole scenario. Savage over Beefcake because it's RANDY SAVAGE vs. Brutus Beefcake. What more do you need? Starting to think you've been a closet Barber fan all these years....

It's not exactly WCW-related, so I'll keep it brief, but... The WrestleMania WatchThru instilled a TON of respect for Beefcake at least pre-accident. He was a stud and decent workhorse at WM1 & WM2, and can't dispute his overness from WM3 - WM7!

Apr 7, 2021 2:13:15 GMT 🤯 said:

It's not exactly WCW-related, so I'll keep it brief, but... The WrestleMania WatchThru instilled a TON of respect for Beefcake at least pre-accident. He was a stud and decent workhorse at WM1 & WM2, and can't dispute his overness from WM3 - WM7!

Fair enough. I'll admit to having a soft spot for Dream Team era Brutus Beefcake if only for the amazing outfits he wore. Plus I've long been a proponent of Brutus Beefcake being the greatest ring name in wrestling history. 

Apr 7, 2021 1:42:18 GMT 🤯 said:

Thank you gents for helping to flesh out and add some flavor to the tale of two halves that was WCW's 1994.

Was WCW really that random with its booking for Brian Pillman to go from awesome hot heel in the Hollywood Blondes to do nothing face fueled by false promises of a cruiserweight championship to worked shoot loose cannon tweener Horseman in the span of like 1.5 years?

I read some article talking about how the Dustin Rhodes/Bunkhouse Buck was the midcard glue that held WCW together in 1994. Is that hyberbole then, based on Baker -man's reaction? Col. Robert Parker certainly does seem to be 1994 WCW's Bobby Heenan or at least Jimmy Hart or Jim Cornette if I'm drawing WWF parallels.

For my project, it's a shame how quickly HTM was in and out of WCW. Really wanted to give him a TV title run to rival his historic IC title reign.

Also trying to find a way to hot shot a Ric Flair/Arn Anderson reunion, get the tag belts on them, the U.S. belt on Beefcake, and run a double or nothing tag team main event at a Clash or something where the Mega Maniacs pick up all the gold. Convince me to swap out Beefcake for Savage if you are so bold.

I did a rebook of Starrcade 1994 a few years back and I had Beefer out of the equation all together. I followed through on signing Curt Hennig (which was in the rumour mill back then) who did a "perfect job" on Hogan's knee at the August Clash and went from there to a Hogan/Hennig main event for Starrcade.

It's around Great America Bash time in 1999. Kevin Nash kidnaps George. Savage goes insane! In the next episode of Thunder, there is a hostage negation storyline that the entire show is centered around. I'm confident in saying that this run as the Madness was the 3rd best of Savage's legendary career. Randy sounded motived, he had fire & Kevin Nash was fun here too.