Jun 10, 2021 9:34:06 GMT Emperor said:

You guys have been talking combat strategy non-stop.

What's the story like in Nocturne? Any side activities like social links in Persona, or is it a pure dungeon barrage?

You and your two friends go and visit your sick teacher in hospital when the Apocalypse hits and wipes out humanity. For plot related reasons, you and your friends survive but are mutated into semi-demons. You're all tasked with restoring humanity, but it's up to you to decide how humanity will return. Reason? Chaos?

It's not too plot heavy, but the atmosphere is really unnerving. When I played it about six years ago it reminded me so much of Killer 7 with some obvious Twin Peaks references thrown in.

Gotta admit a pure dungeon crawler with little story does not have the greatest appeal, but on the other hand it appears to have a challenging and deep combat strategy which does interest me.

Jun 10, 2021 9:34:06 GMT Emperor said:

You guys have been talking combat strategy non-stop.

What's the story like in Nocturne? Any side activities like social links in Persona, or is it a pure dungeon barrage?

There are no social links in any SMT game outside of Persona, SMT by default is a very dark and very individualist game where it's you and your demons/angels against the world.  It's linear and much of the game is dungeon crawling but you do have some optional spots to go to and optional bosses trigger as a result. Persona series has always been about the team development, whether it was SEES of Persona 3, saving people from the Midnight Channel of Persona 4 or Team Phantom Thieves Go! of Persona 5. This game(And series) have different storyline paths like Law, Chaos, Neutral, and the path Rags and I took where we crush all of that. The people that survive the "Conception" AKA the destruction of the world go down their different paths and transform themselves into being obsessed with creating a new world of what they believe is absolute. You may join one of their beliefs to the end or end up crushing their dreams in a fight of different philosophies. 

SMT has always been more so about the philosophies and how it takes real life religion or mythology into consideration, the demons in Persona that the main character can inherit and use are more show and tell , but in SMT, particularly this one, they match the theme of each path.(In this game which is unique LAW has the devil inspired demons, CHAOS has the majestic holier than thou angels, NEUTRAL incorporates both without going too off the rocker. It's always usually LAW=Angels, CHAOS=devils). You have more appreciation for the game if you are into Norse Mythology, Egyptian Mythology, Greek Mythology, Christianity, Satanism etc. As so much of the concepts and creations from there are blended in this game. 

Nocturne from the get go is meant to be dark and meant to be brutal in the form of people die and will die but there must be one ruler by the end. I agree with Ragnarok that I do wish there were a bit more cutscenes of the friends you meet in the beginning but everybody goes far off their belief and path that it makes sense that you see enough of their transformation from being a friend into developing into something over the top. The brief actions in game sort of make them become not reliant on anyone to save them from the apocalypse so you get why they become what they are, they just take it to the next level.

Closest thing I can  think of is they match with a Persona 5 antagonist 

SPOILER: Click to show

Goro Akechi

where he becomes what he is out of necessity or being a victim of circumstance. 

Jun 10, 2021 12:14:15 GMT Emperor said:

Gotta admit a pure dungeon crawler with little story does not have the greatest appeal, but on the other hand it appears to have a challenging and deep combat strategy which does interest me.

I would rank Nocturne right there with Persona 3 and 4 and for me and Digital Devil Saga 1 is also fantastic. DDS is the closest thing to Persona, have yet to play DDS2. It's Persona without the JPOPness or social link meetings, Digital Devil Saga(Or Devil Tuner in EU?) is just as dark as Nocturne, really most of the Shin Megami Tensei games are dark, and Persona has it's moments............just they have a lot of Japanese teenage life attached to it where it doesn't go fullblown crazy all the way through.

Jun 10, 2021 9:57:09 GMT RagnarokMike said:

Jun 10, 2021 9:34:06 GMT Emperor said:

You guys have been talking combat strategy non-stop.

What's the story like in Nocturne? Any side activities like social links in Persona, or is it a pure dungeon barrage?

Pure dungeon crawler, only thing you build up (through combat) are direct character stats (Strength, Magic, Vitality, Agility, and, least importantly, luck), while leveling up demons to unlock their full potential. Then you have what are called "magatamas," which is how you unlock, up to 10 (replaceable), moves for your main character, while they also offer buffs in combat (like nullifying a specific element, so it'll then do 0 damage; and you can adjust them at any time when not in combat). 

As far as combat, not sure about the earlier Personas, but Persona 5 definitely didn't prepare me much for it, aside from many of the core mechanics, and even names for things, being the same. This game's buffs and debuffs are mandatory to even have a shot at many bosses, Matador is basically invincible if you can't debuff his evasion, as his Red Capote instantly maxes it out, and makes him untouchable. And it's incredibly early in the game, it's basically the sink or swim tutorial on how you need to use buffs and debuffs, which you may not even have at the time if you don't know you're going to need them...I sure didn't. Took me an hour or two to finally fuse and grind a team to finally take him down. And by the end, that's actually one of the easiest bosses, but once you masters buffing/debuffing, it becomes a much more manageable game; but being a turn based RPG, you're still at the whims of the RNG gods...and they're a petty spiteful lot.

The story is incredibly sparse in comparison to Persona 5, just every few dungeons you'll get a character to pontificate about their specific goal, then they move on while you go back to clearing the next area. A bit more dense in closing, especially going for the True Demon ending, but still nowhere near the constant character interaction of Persona.

The difficulty is overstated as long as you know how to buff or debuff and have guys(or gals) in your party who have that. The concept of 1 healer, 1 buff/debuff, 2 attackers carries you in this game. I think this was people's first SMT experience in US which is why it got such a hard reputation, sorta like how Demon Souls was the 1st of it's kind introduced to the world and by default became everyone's most notable Souls experience in terms of difficulty. 

I will say HARD is pretty unforgiving though, if enemies know your weakness, they are exploiting it for the extra turns. Macca/money cost is twice as much which is ridiculous. What is rough with RNG is facing demons with Mudo or Hama, AKA the instant spell deaths and not having the main character with resistance can result in a chance of a game over off the spot, especially if the enemy side goes first. Absolutely obnoxious but a staple of SMT nevertheless. 

You all see this yet? New game from the team behind the old SMT games.

Jun 10, 2021 22:08:41 GMT c said:

You all see this yet? New game from the team behind the old SMT games.

Read a little bit about it, very curious about the performance and how old school SMT they go with this. Between this and Shin Megami Tensei V coming to the Switch in November of this year, it's been a really good year for SMT fans. Really good, love to see it.

Looks like they are doing a tactics style battle system. I assume the SMT stuff will be more in the narrative style.

Jun 10, 2021 12:29:54 GMT Blindy said:

Jun 10, 2021 9:57:09 GMT RagnarokMike said:

Pure dungeon crawler, only thing you build up (through combat) are direct character stats (Strength, Magic, Vitality, Agility, and, least importantly, luck), while leveling up demons to unlock their full potential. Then you have what are called "magatamas," which is how you unlock, up to 10 (replaceable), moves for your main character, while they also offer buffs in combat (like nullifying a specific element, so it'll then do 0 damage; and you can adjust them at any time when not in combat). 

As far as combat, not sure about the earlier Personas, but Persona 5 definitely didn't prepare me much for it, aside from many of the core mechanics, and even names for things, being the same. This game's buffs and debuffs are mandatory to even have a shot at many bosses, Matador is basically invincible if you can't debuff his evasion, as his Red Capote instantly maxes it out, and makes him untouchable. And it's incredibly early in the game, it's basically the sink or swim tutorial on how you need to use buffs and debuffs, which you may not even have at the time if you don't know you're going to need them...I sure didn't. Took me an hour or two to finally fuse and grind a team to finally take him down. And by the end, that's actually one of the easiest bosses, but once you masters buffing/debuffing, it becomes a much more manageable game; but being a turn based RPG, you're still at the whims of the RNG gods...and they're a petty spiteful lot.

The story is incredibly sparse in comparison to Persona 5, just every few dungeons you'll get a character to pontificate about their specific goal, then they move on while you go back to clearing the next area. A bit more dense in closing, especially going for the True Demon ending, but still nowhere near the constant character interaction of Persona.

The difficulty is overstated as long as you know how to buff or debuff and have guys(or gals) in your party who have that. The concept of 1 healer, 1 buff/debuff, 2 attackers carries you in this game. I think this was people's first SMT experience in US which is why it got such a hard reputation, sorta like how Demon Souls was the 1st of it's kind introduced to the world and by default became everyone's most notable Souls experience in terms of difficulty. 

I will say HARD is pretty unforgiving though, if enemies know your weakness, they are exploiting it for the extra turns. Macca/money cost is twice as much which is ridiculous. What is rough with RNG is facing demons with Mudo or Hama, AKA the instant spell deaths and not having the main character with resistance can result in a chance of a game over off the spot, especially if the enemy side goes first. Absolutely obnoxious but a staple of SMT nevertheless. 

For the hardest bosses I'd definitely recommend 2 de/buffers, each with with a buff for the team and debuff for the enemy; that way, once they dekaja/dekunda you, you can double it back up before they have time to do the other. Sometimes one buff/debuff isn't enough...especially for Lucifer (even debuffed he was doing a ridiculous amount of damage).

Jun 11, 2021 6:38:17 GMT RagnarokMike said:

Jun 10, 2021 12:29:54 GMT Blindy said:

The difficulty is overstated as long as you know how to buff or debuff and have guys(or gals) in your party who have that. The concept of 1 healer, 1 buff/debuff, 2 attackers carries you in this game. I think this was people's first SMT experience in US which is why it got such a hard reputation, sorta like how Demon Souls was the 1st of it's kind introduced to the world and by default became everyone's most notable Souls experience in terms of difficulty. 

I will say HARD is pretty unforgiving though, if enemies know your weakness, they are exploiting it for the extra turns. Macca/money cost is twice as much which is ridiculous. What is rough with RNG is facing demons with Mudo or Hama, AKA the instant spell deaths and not having the main character with resistance can result in a chance of a game over off the spot, especially if the enemy side goes first. Absolutely obnoxious but a staple of SMT nevertheless. 

For the hardest bosses I'd definitely recommend 2 de/buffers, each with with a buff for the team and debuff for the enemy; that way, once they dekaja/dekunda you, you can double it back up before they have time to do the other. Sometimes one buff/debuff isn't enough...especially for Lucifer (even debuffed he was doing a ridiculous amount of damage).

Oh yeah for the boss fights, if your healer can throw buffs or debuffs too, it's all the more better. Just from an MP consumption and the fact that you don't get MP refills so easily until late game via the vendor makes it a matter of MP management, especially if your far from a Terminal or Lady of the Fountain/healer. I had two of my four party members vs Lucifer use Debilitate on him no questions asked and both had Prayer so we were covered. 

I see from their reviews that their different sorts of games, but they're cheap on PSN for PS3, so, any opinions on the Devil Summoner or Digital Devil Saga games?

Jun 12, 2021 7:14:11 GMT RagnarokMike said:

I see from their reviews that their different sorts of games, but they're cheap on PSN for PS3, so, any opinions on the Devil Summoner or Digital Devil Saga games?

I played Devil Summoner 2 ages ago on PS2, I want to play the original via PS3 emulation one day. It's features the guy you saw Raidou as the main character and you also recruit demons on your side but this IIRC is very Star Ocean esque combat with you running to enemies and then performing moves rather than the turn based games that SMT are often like. Story is pretty good, it's very early 1900's Japan from what I remember with the setting. He is basically as he was in Nocturne, a detective who explores the paranormal and ends up in deeper water as a result with his cool companion black cat who does the talking of the duo.



Digital Devil Saga, I only played one. Game is fantastic, this is the closest thing to Persona franchise from a battle perspective except instead of demons, you ride with your group of friends who have demon growths AKA personas who transform their bodies in combat where they have their very own moveset. You still battle the typical SMT demons in this one from what I remember, but there are 4 guys/gals who control a zone who have a competition for the last one standing to control the world and you have to take down each one, which is easier said than done. Don't want to give away too much. It has no social links like Persona series and it's still as dark as Nocturne but there is more interaction & dialogue with your party members and side characters vs say Nocturne.

It has Nocturne's dungeon crawling and open world(If you can call it that) with the Persona style of comradery although there's natural disagreement amongst the crew. Very much like Persona & Nocturne of being turn based. Each one specializes in AGI or BUFU or ZAN or ZIO so you def. want to utilize each one to exploit weaknesses. And guess what? If the MC(Serph I believe is his canon name?) dies, THE GAME ISN'T OVER! Because the other members who you control can revive you because that makes like total sense. Total sense. I get Nocturne given the demons are a fragment within Demi-Fiend I suppose but not in Persona series, nope. Never have, never will. Sorry Big Pete .


I didn't finish it only because there were secret boss(es) that required you to grind including

SPOILER: Click to show

DEMI-FIEND from Nocturne who is a notoriously broken boss, takes 4 of you to try to even hurt him

and the then unemployed me gave up despite being next to the actual final boss which given my grinding would have been mauled. Def. revisiting this game maybe next year. 

From what I remember reading, the PS2 to PS3 emulation isn't perfect, def. slowdown on certain spells or boss battles but nothing game crippling although someone I read on another forum said the game did freeze during DDS2 a little bit which is troublesome which means you just gotta save plenty. They should make Digital Devil Saga 1 and 2 remaster next if Atlus is smart, especially if Nocturne sold well which I hope it did. 

Digital Devil Saga is great, I want to replay 1 and finally get into the sequel which everyone says is even better which is crazy.

Probably pick 'em, up when I get the money, even if I don't get to 'em right away...only $10 each.

Also, just figured I'd randomly drop in an say, having stewed on it, and thought about the experience...I'll definitely play Nocturne again some day.