It seems there has been a million and one people who have come out of the woodwork and made a ton of accusations.  People have lost jobs.  TV Shows have been canceled and more.  I am in no means calling any of the cases false but I do ponder the efficacy of this whole movement.  As far as I know, the only charges that were pressed were by Terry Crews.  And I believe that may have all fallen through as I see he now has a lawsuit out there.

Has anyone been arrested or formally charged?  

Dec 6, 2017 19:06:38 GMT theend said:

It seems there has been a million and one people who have come out of the woodwork and made a ton of accusations.  People have lost jobs.  TV Shows have been canceled and more.  I am in no means calling any of the cases false but I do ponder the efficacy of this whole movement.  As far as I know, the only charges that were pressed were by Terry Crews.  And I believe that may have all fallen through as I see he now has a lawsuit out there.

Has anyone been arrested or formally charged?  

Of course not, right? Guilty until proven innocent in the court of public opinion, and then conveniently forgotten about with no reparation if eventually proven innocent.

Dec 6, 2017 19:06:38 GMT theend said:

It seems there has been a million and one people who have come out of the woodwork and made a ton of accusations.  People have lost jobs.  TV Shows have been canceled and more.  I am in no means calling any of the cases false but I do ponder the efficacy of this whole movement.  As far as I know, the only charges that were pressed were by Terry Crews.  And I believe that may have all fallen through as I see he now has a lawsuit out there.

Has anyone been arrested or formally charged? 

Statute of limitations has long since passed, I'm sure, along with any sort of proof that would hold up in court. Just because you can't legally prove it, though, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Maybe not enough proof for a court of law but sometimes there's enough to where we can infer something happened.

Dec 7, 2017 1:38:45 GMT 🤯 said:

Of course not, right? Guilty until proven innocent in the court of public opinion, and then conveniently forgotten about with no reparation if eventually proven innocent.

The alternative is that all these people are lying, of course, which to me seems less likely.

Also worth pondering: When it was the guys coming forth (the dudes who spoke out against Kevin Spacey, for instance) the reaction was pretty much yeah, he did it. No problem believing him. But when it's the women coming forth all of a sudden here comes the skepticism, she's just trying to cash in, who's to say that she remembers things right, etc.

EDIT TO CLARIFY: I'm certainly not accusing anyone here of doing that, but you'd have to be willfully blind to deny that you see this happening in the way people talk about this outside PW. She must be a gold digger, she said yes but changed her mind later, etc. etc.

Why do some people wait so long to come forward? I don't mean to imply any accusations the other way by playing devil's advocate here, but I am sometimes curious of the motivations behind the timing.

I mean, if something had happened to me, I assume I'd either report it immediately if the need for justice outweighed my fear/shame/etc. or that I'd bottle it and live privately with it without justice forever if my fear/shame/etc. outweighed my need for justice.

And then what's the point of waiting until after statutes of limitations have expired to start seeking justice? Waiting and then coming forward after it's too late, in a way that can be misconstrued relatively easily by the mob as a smear tactic grab for attention, doesn't seem like it's seeking justice... Rather it seems like it's seeking revenge (which, I'm personally ok with people seeking revenge, but that's a different thread).

If I had my druthers about it, I'd want my innocence or guilt as the accused/defendant to be determined via our justice system (flawed and inefficient as it may be) instead of being victim to "mob justice" as spurred by some revenge-seeker.

Anyone who knows any more about the motivations behind coming forward when people do, like the timing aspect, please illuminate me. I do find it to be one of the more curious yet overlooked elements in these kinds of stories.

It's a really complicated issue, and while statistics support the victims, there have been times where others have had their reputations ruined by false allegations. As far as what takes so long for somebody to speak out, you can only imagine how traumatising the whole ordeal is. A lot of victims just want to move on with their lives and cope the best they can. Unfortunately the rigors of a police investigation are tough on the victims and considering how vital it is to report an assault ASAP a lot of them just aren't ready. For a lot of these victims, they may have the intention of bottling it, but something will inspire them to speak up about the issue.

I do think there is the potential with social media to defame celebrities/co-workers but in most cases it should be easy to tell who is telling the truth and who is just talking out their arse.

I just hope with the Weinstein case that it inspires police to be more accomodating towards victims and help them through what can only be a horrific time in the lives of victims. From what I gather, police in Australia are being educated on the matter, especially in the rise of post-OJ Simpson DV cases, but more can be done. I do know that more female police officers are being employed for this very reason and while some will argue sexism, they're important in those situations.

While we're on the subject, that's why you'll find most partners will stick with their batterers in DV cases. Usually whenever the victims try and leave their abusers, that's when they're at their most volatile. Not to mention, courts tend to do everything in their power to maintain a nuclear family, so victims are often trapped. It only gets more complicated in non-heteronormative cases.

This is not only a very complicated issue but also a very sensitive one. 

I don't dispute any of these allegations. But having been involved in many a workplace investigation - there's always two sides. And in fairness to both parties, the accused and the accusers - both need to be heard, fairly. 

On a much lighter topic, I've been involved in investigations that have seen the accuser, then questioned, as they attempted to discredit another employee's reputation through an exaggerated claim based solely on how they felt about a conversation, rather than the actions or words of the person accused. It was a case of frustration, because they didn't get what they wanted. 

I guess what is polluting this issue is this idea, that every bad sexual experience is sexual assault. If it was bad, awkward, or someone regrets it.. it's sexual assault. It's not. I think at the same time, we need a clear definition of not only what is sexual assault, but what is also sexual harassment. So those processing these allegations can do it fairly, and set a clear definitive example. 

The Mike Pence rule is gonna be the standard going forward.

Michinokudriver , I was not looking to question anyone's story. More on a positive side. There have been a lot of allegations. One of them has to fall within the statute of limitations right? One woman in recent history has to have a case. Just a matter of probability. Not all the sensitivity or complexity really. I was just fishing to see if anyone knew of anything that turned into a case. When Matt Lauer's story came out there were four other random folks in the media that got nabbed too. From NPR to Minnesota radio. All media people. If I wore a foil hat I would think it was a conspiracy.

But in more seriousness. I want the satisfying ending. I want the one person who raped someone in the last year to get put in prison. Think about it. What would be better for the movement and for the women fighting it than someone to go down, all the way down? Not just lose a job, but be pinned in the center of the ring with a clean victory.  R. Kelly is just waiting to go down, isn't he?


False accusations are a whole different kettle of fish. I am not going there with this.   

Dec 7, 2017 9:07:39 GMT @ness said:

The Mike Pence rule is gonna be the standard going forward.

Uh oh, what's the Mike Pence rule?

Dec 7, 2017 15:05:29 GMT 🤯 said:

Dec 7, 2017 9:07:39 GMT @ness said:

The Mike Pence rule is gonna be the standard going forward.

Uh oh, what's the Mike Pence rule?

Basically he does not do anything alone with a female coworker unless his wife is there. Now granted it won't stop false accusations but I can see men opting out of interacting with female coworkers out of fear of their livelihood. Or maybe it's just Ness being his paranoid self.

I can see it as paranoid and smart. Maybe he knows he is like most men and gets a little flirty and loose lipped when he has a couple cocktails. It's good self-regulation to not drink in some situations.

What about Danny Masterson? Has he been charged?

Dec 8, 2017 1:20:11 GMT Mistress said:

What about Danny Masterson? Has he been charged?

he was cleared by the police a long time ago.

Dec 8, 2017 14:45:02 GMT theend said:

Dec 8, 2017 1:20:11 GMT Mistress said:

What about Danny Masterson? Has he been charged?

he was cleared by the police a long time ago.

oh...since they just now decided to write his character off of Netflix's  'The Ranch', i thought he was being charged now

wow, so even a guy who has been investigated, and not charged is still susceptible to the witch hunt style mentality of today. This is insanity.

Dec 8, 2017 17:42:58 GMT nazzer said:

wow, so even a guy who has been investigated, and not charged is still susceptible to the witch hunt style mentality of today. This is insanity.

Oh, good shout... Maybe this stuff is all just payback for the actual witch hunt stuff men subjected women too back in the colonial days. Fucking Puritans, they ruin shit for everyone.

It is interesting how this movement is coming from the same group of people who abhorred the Pence Rule because it infringed on a woman’s ability to do her job. I try my best to have someone around when meeting with females, mostly for my own protection. I’m not one who has ever been concerned about sexual harassment stuff, but especially with clients I figure it’s always better to have a witness.

But it’s not surprising that primarily a group of guys is having a conversation about concern for fake reports which don’t seem that common instead of the group of powerful men mostly thinking they can get away with whatever the fuck they want.

Dec 8, 2017 22:04:00 GMT mikec said:

But it’s not surprising that primarily a group of guys is having a conversation about concern for fake reports which don’t seem that common instead of the group of powerful men mostly thinking they can get away with whatever the fuck they want.

I just believe we need to re-establish a clear definition of what constitutes both sexual assault and sexual harassment. As with different generations, and different teachings, things can get rather distorted. 

What pollutes any issue are the false reports. Take workplace injury for example. It can be very difficult for those who are legitimately injured to be taken seriously, or without a cloud of doubt due to the large number of people rorting the system or exaggerating claims. 

Similar to the conversations we've had about free speech/hate speech. At what point, does free speech become hate speech? It's very easy for someone opposing an differing view to throw around words like 'bigot' and 'racist' and accuse an opponent of being such to discredit reputation or credibility, when in reality the opponent has just presented fact and viewpoint.

Same with sexual assault and sexual harassment, if the #metoo campaign becomes a bandwagon of exaggerations and falsified claims, it makes it incredibly hard for those who have suffered from seeing justice. 

And because ample time saying not all women are to be believed, we reinforce to women that if they come forward they might not be well received and silence the people who are actually harassed.

I’m not completely on team woman or anything on this, but I’m also a white man who benefits from the treatment.

Do you benefit or are you more likely to be falsely accused being a white man? Judging from uva, mattress girl and many others on the innocence project it may seem more common and more often that the white man is the target here.

What effing sucks is every false or exaggerated causation sets all victims regardless of gender back so far.  

I know this is a "man hating" thread but not all sexual assault victims are women and not all assaulters are men. It goes both ways. I know.

Dec 9, 2017 4:51:41 GMT theend said:

Do you benefit or are you more likely to be falsely accused being a white man? Judging from uva, mattress girl and many others on the innocence project it may seem more common and more often that the white man is the target here.

What effing sucks is every false or exaggerated causation sets all victims regardless of gender back so far.  

Pretty sure the pros outweigh the cons on the white man thing. There’s are infinitely more stories that are told that seem true than the ones we have to go back to every time we need to prove that sometimes there are false allegations.

Or we just reinforce innocent until proven guilty.

Dec 7, 2017 3:37:10 GMT 🤯 said:

Why do some people wait so long to come forward? I don't mean to imply any accusations the other way by playing devil's advocate here, but I am sometimes curious of the motivations behind the timing.

I mean, if something had happened to me, I assume I'd either report it immediately if the need for justice outweighed my fear/shame/etc. or that I'd bottle it and live privately with it without justice forever if my fear/shame/etc. outweighed my need for justice.

And then what's the point of waiting until after statutes of limitations have expired to start seeking justice? Waiting and then coming forward after it's too late, in a way that can be misconstrued relatively easily by the mob as a smear tactic grab for attention, doesn't seem like it's seeking justice... Rather it seems like it's seeking revenge (which, I'm personally ok with people seeking revenge, but that's a different thread).

If I had my druthers about it, I'd want my innocence or guilt as the accused/defendant to be determined via our justice system (flawed and inefficient as it may be) instead of being victim to "mob justice" as spurred by some revenge-seeker.

Anyone who knows any more about the motivations behind coming forward when people do, like the timing aspect, please illuminate me. I do find it to be one of the more curious yet overlooked elements in these kinds of stories.

A big part of it is learning you're not alone. If you think you're the only person it happened to then you think no one would believe you. How many people had to accuse Bill Cosby over how many years before anyone took them seriously?

Dec 7, 2017 14:07:10 GMT theend said:

Michinokudriver , I was not looking to question anyone's story. More on a positive side. There have been a lot of allegations. One of them has to fall within the statute of limitations right? One woman in recent history has to have a case. Just a matter of probability. Not all the sensitivity or complexity really. I was just fishing to see if anyone knew of anything that turned into a case. When Matt Lauer's story came out there were four other random folks in the media that got nabbed too. From NPR to Minnesota radio. All media people. If I wore a foil hat I would think it was a conspiracy.



But in more seriousness. I want the satisfying ending. I want the one person who raped someone in the last year to get put in prison. Think about it. What would be better for the movement and for the women fighting it than someone to go down, all the way down? Not just lose a job, but be pinned in the center of the ring with a clean victory. R. Kelly is just waiting to go down, isn't he?



False accusations are a whole different kettle of fish. I am not going there with this.

I wasn't thinking of rape, which might not have a statue of limitations (I honestly don't know) but rather groping and general skeevishness.

In some states, rape does have a statute of limitations...Indiana is one of them, sadly.

Dec 10, 2017 4:42:44 GMT theend said:

Or we just reinforce innocent until proven guilty.

That would require a police report, which might determine the accuser is lying...

Here is a different angle on it all.
www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/meet-the-women-worried-about-metoo/20639#.Wjfky9-nHDd

www.aol.com/article/entertainment/2017/12/18/matt-damon-sexual-harassment-comments/23311084/

Does this make Matt Damon a bad guy now?

The only solution is to fire all the men in Hollywood. Nah, every industry. Can't be too careful.

Then we apparently need to keep females away all teenage boys.