I'm back commuting to work again which means I have 10 hours a week to listen to podcasts again - so I'm adding Off Her Chops to my rotation. Listened to the first episode and a half this morning and would recommend it to anyone who was a fan of the Iiconics - it is as you would pretty much imagine. 

It was interesting to hear about how although they went to the same high school and were both big wrestling fans they didn't really like each other - and didn't become friends until they joined each other in wrestling training. And also about how they struggled with their mental health travelling in WWE - Cassie having anxiety attacks and Jessie's claustrophobia making flying difficult.

I've heard there are a few controversial/confronting topics on the recent episodes so I'll return with my thoughts on those when I listen.

Couple of the most interesting parts (quite a lot of it is not wrestling focused - it's notable that they're talking about wanting to expand their horizons and potentially get into acting, wonder what that means for their future IN DIS BIZNISS...)

The episode where Cassie talked about her struggles with bulimia was full on! She said that she had kept it a secret from everyone but it definitely puts a whole new perspective on the Meltzer controversy. Some of the comments that Jessie made about how we're all better off just not commenting on these sorts of things. We've all done it - I remember making post relatively recently about how a certain female wrestler had lost a noticeable amount of weight and "looked really good" - my intentions were obviously completely innocent but their discussion made me feel completely differently about it.

Cassie talking about how her meeting with Vince post-Iiconic split went completely sideways because he didn't like her initial idea, and when he asked her what her hobbies were she admitted that she just liked to stay home with her dogs and was actually a bit of a boring person was intriguing. It goes to show that the oft-repeated mantra that the best wrestling characters are people's natural personalities turned up to 11 isn't necessarily true for everyone.

It was nice (but simultaneously a sad "what could have been" moment) to hear them talk about the mooted feud with the Bellas that never eventuated on the most recent episode. They thought it would have really elevated them to a similar level of stardom as the twins, and could have made a huge difference to their careers. Given what a disaster zone the tag titles have turned into after a relatively promising start - it's hard to disagree.

Jul 12, 2021 2:31:27 GMT @admin said:

The episode where Cassie talked about her struggles with bulimia was full on! She said that she had kept it a secret from everyone but it definitely puts a whole new perspective on the Meltzer controversy. Some of the comments that Jessie made about how we're all better off just not commenting on these sorts of things. We've all done it - I remember making post relatively recently about how a certain female wrestler had lost a noticeable amount of weight and "looked really good" - my intentions were obviously completely innocent but their discussion made me feel completely differently about it.

I remember that(Think it was an AEW star that returned from a long injury?) and I didn't take it quite that way, I think it is important and great to reward and highlight people who make changes to their lifestyle and appearance. I don't think you came off putting down women who aren't skinny or even average but rather commending someone for getting in much better shape and sacrificing/putting in the work.

It reminds me of people being angry that Adele lost so much weight because she lost her originality, but it's like "She wants to be healthy, how can you even fault someone for that".

Meltzer looked terrible before but after that revelation, man oh man. You can see why Shawn Spears wanted to break him in half and may still want to if he got Dave 1 on 1 in a room alone. 

Jesus, who cares how much these girls weigh? I remember way back in the pre-SHIMMER days we had the old joke of the ass scale, where the bigger a woman's ass was the better of the wrestler she was, because it seemed all of the REALLY good female wrestlers had extra weight on them. Which in a way makes sense given how damn rough those early girls were. Without the weight, there would have been broken bones.

It is not like the majority of the girls are remotely big. Brutal to see people push them to eating disorders.

And I see this a lot in other areas too, where women with obvious eating disorders or health are praised greatly for their bodies that are clearly unhealthy, but fit nicely into that heroin chic image that the ideal size for a woman is sub 100 pounds. F that noise.

Jul 12, 2021 3:02:34 GMT Blindy said:

Jul 12, 2021 2:31:27 GMT @admin said:

The episode where Cassie talked about her struggles with bulimia was full on! She said that she had kept it a secret from everyone but it definitely puts a whole new perspective on the Meltzer controversy. Some of the comments that Jessie made about how we're all better off just not commenting on these sorts of things. We've all done it - I remember making post relatively recently about how a certain female wrestler had lost a noticeable amount of weight and "looked really good" - my intentions were obviously completely innocent but their discussion made me feel completely differently about it.

I remember that(Think it was an AEW star that returned from a long injury?) and I didn't take it quite that way, I think it is important and great to reward and highlight people who make changes to their lifestyle and appearance. I don't think you came off putting down women who aren't skinny or even average but rather commending someone for getting in much better shape and sacrificing/putting in the work.

It reminds me of people being angry that Adele lost so much weight because she lost her originality, but it's like "She wants to be healthy, how can you even fault someone for that".

Meltzer looked terrible before but after that revelation, man oh man. You can see why Shawn Spears wanted to break him in half and may still want to if he got Dave 1 on 1 in a room alone. 

The issue is that although it feels like you are giving someone a compliment by going "oh you lost weight, you look fantastic!" you don't know what is going on behind the scenes. In some circumstances that comment might be well received and that's great, but in others there may be underlying issues that make it unhelpful and potentially dangerous. Meltzer's comments about Cassie's body probably weren't malicious, just clumsily expressed, but what's he gaining from talking about it at all? 

So we are or aren't supposed to compliment others?

Jul 12, 2021 4:12:53 GMT @admin said:

Jul 12, 2021 3:02:34 GMT Blindy said:

I remember that(Think it was an AEW star that returned from a long injury?) and I didn't take it quite that way, I think it is important and great to reward and highlight people who make changes to their lifestyle and appearance. I don't think you came off putting down women who aren't skinny or even average but rather commending someone for getting in much better shape and sacrificing/putting in the work.

It reminds me of people being angry that Adele lost so much weight because she lost her originality, but it's like "She wants to be healthy, how can you even fault someone for that".

Meltzer looked terrible before but after that revelation, man oh man. You can see why Shawn Spears wanted to break him in half and may still want to if he got Dave 1 on 1 in a room alone. 

The issue is that although it feels like you are giving someone a compliment by going "oh you lost weight, you look fantastic!" you don't know what is going on behind the scenes. In some circumstances that comment might be well received and that's great, but in others there may be underlying issues that make it unhelpful and potentially dangerous. Meltzer's comments about Cassie's body probably weren't malicious, just clumsily expressed, but what's he gaining from talking about it at all? 

Of course but I think it is important to give praise to someone who is posting pictures of hitting the gym and recognizing them sacrificing time and diet to get to where they want to get to as well. When Statlander came back, it wasn't some knock of her size pre knee injury but rather positively giving someone praise for rehabbing and working their ass off to get back and comeback looking even better than ever. 

Jul 12, 2021 3:09:52 GMT c said:

Jesus, who cares how much these girls weigh? I remember way back in the pre-SHIMMER days we had the old joke of the ass scale, where the bigger a woman's ass was the better of the wrestler she was because it seemed all of the REALLY good female wrestlers had extra weight on them. Which in a way makes sense given how damn rough those early girls were. Without the weight, there would have been broken bones.

It is not like the majority of the girls are remotely big. Brutal to see people push them to have eating disorders.

And I see this a lot in other areas too, where women with obvious eating disorders or health are praised greatly for their bodies that are clearly unhealthy but fit nicely into that heroin chic image that the ideal size for a woman is sub 100 pounds. F that noise.

As much as I love Daizee Haze, I'm glad she retired when she did. Daizee wouldn't have survived this hateful & toxic segment of the scene.

Yeah Haze I think was really close to be a tragedy. Her health was tanking at the end and there were times when she could not have weighed more than 90 pounds.

Jul 12, 2021 10:34:42 GMT 🤯 said:

So we are or aren't supposed to compliment others?

You just have to be careful. Like if I said “🤯 is so good at liking posts”, it might be interpreted as me praising your compulsive addiction to liking posts you do and don’t like, thus only encouraging you to go deeper into your world of thumbs up.

So when in doubt, never praise.

Jul 13, 2021 6:31:10 GMT c said:

Yeah. Haze I think was really close to being a tragedy. Her health was tanking at the end and, there were times when she could not have weighed more than 90 pounds.

I remember being deeply sad when Daizee Haze had to retire. She was the woman that got into women's wrestling. Without the Haze, I would have cared about Cheerleader Melissa, Mischif, Lacey, Danger, Nicole Matthews, Leva Bates, Veda Scott, Kimber Lee, or Heidi Lovelace. Maybe Daizee would have retired at the same time regardless but, I wish she had the chance to bow out on her terms.

Jul 13, 2021 16:59:54 GMT mikec said:

Jul 12, 2021 10:34:42 GMT 🤯 said:

So we are or aren't supposed to compliment others?

You just have to be careful. Like if I said “🤯 is so good at liking posts”, it might be interpreted as me praising your compulsive addiction to liking posts you do and don’t like, thus only encouraging you to go deeper into your world of thumbs up.

So when in doubt, never praise.

What a weird world we live in.

I remember when the advice used to be "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."

Now it's just "Don't say anything at all" it seems.

Peyton Royce/Cassandra was the one who asked for an IIconics split, I can't blame her for trying to test new waters but that didn't work out for her because Billie Kay/Jessica ended up shining of the two. Didn't seem like anything malicious, guess she really wanted to show her serious in ring ability instead of being some comedic relief. She mentioned a conversation few weeks back where she approached Vince for trying to get pushed more on TV and Vince said what do you like to do away from the ring which she froze up and said generic stuff like watch TV and sleep that she felt soured Vince on her.

I think they know better and will rock as a tag team for the fed that gets them.

Jul 12, 2021 2:31:27 GMT @admin said:

The episode where Cassie talked about her struggles with bulimia was full on! She said that she had kept it a secret from everyone but it definitely puts a whole new perspective on the Meltzer controversy. Some of the comments that Jessie made about how we're all better off just not commenting on these sorts of things. We've all done it - I remember making post relatively recently about how a certain female wrestler had lost a noticeable amount of weight and "looked really good" - my intentions were obviously completely innocent but their discussion made me feel completely differently about it.

You do realise that even though Meltzer used the word weight 'weight' when talking about how Peyton added weight when she moved up to the main roster, he wasn't talking about body mass right? He was making a commentary on the frequency of which WWE female wrestlers get breast implants. 

Aug 6, 2021 13:05:45 GMT nazzer said:

Jul 12, 2021 2:31:27 GMT @admin said:

The episode where Cassie talked about her struggles with bulimia was full on! She said that she had kept it a secret from everyone but it definitely puts a whole new perspective on the Meltzer controversy. Some of the comments that Jessie made about how we're all better off just not commenting on these sorts of things. We've all done it - I remember making post relatively recently about how a certain female wrestler had lost a noticeable amount of weight and "looked really good" - my intentions were obviously completely innocent but their discussion made me feel completely differently about it.

You do realise that even though Meltzer used the word weight 'weight' when talking about how Peyton added weight when she moved up to the main roster, he wasn't talking about body mass right? He was making a commentary on the frequency of which WWE female wrestlers get breast implants. 

That doesn’t matter. He’s on a public platform commenting on women’s appearances.

Aug 6, 2021 14:24:06 GMT surrender said:

Aug 6, 2021 13:05:45 GMT nazzer said:

You do realise that even though Meltzer used the word weight 'weight' when talking about how Peyton added weight when she moved up to the main roster, he wasn't talking about body mass right? He was making a commentary on the frequency of which WWE female wrestlers get breast implants. 

That doesn’t matter. He’s on a public platform commenting on women’s appearances.

Sure, great. But if we are gonna be mad at Dave we should at least be mad at what he was saying, rather than misunderstanding him. 

Aug 6, 2021 15:44:37 GMT nazzer said:

Aug 6, 2021 14:24:06 GMT surrender said:

That doesn’t matter. He’s on a public platform commenting on women’s appearances.

Sure, great. But if we are gonna be mad at Dave we should at least be mad at what he was saying, rather than misunderstanding him. 

I don't think it matters in this situation. Dave was trying to skirt around the issue and instead of just speaking openly he ended up saying something that was just as offensive if not moreso.

It was just typical Dave, really. There was no need to ever bring it up and when he did it somehow ended up coming out wrong.

And it’s not like he’s learnt his lesson, he’s gone in on Charlotte for appearance too.

Aug 6, 2021 15:44:37 GMT nazzer said:

Aug 6, 2021 14:24:06 GMT surrender said:

That doesn’t matter. He’s on a public platform commenting on women’s appearances.

Sure, great. But if we are gonna be mad at Dave we should at least be mad at what he was saying, rather than misunderstanding him. 

Sure, you're right but, Dave rarely speaks in nuance or clarifies what he means on stories like these. So, I understand why people won't give him the benefit of the doubt or clarify comments on his behalf.