So CM Punk for a good minute was universally loved. Obviously not 100% but for the longest time online it seemed like everyone was a fan. And despite his attitude it felt like DIS BUSINESS respected him for coming up the hard way when a lot of ways that is from a previous era. I think all his so-called nuclear heat just endeared him to many even more. For instance he supposedly dropped the title to Taker in a HIAC squash because he didn't dress like a champ. No matter what he was always relevant good or bad.

Another instance where I think he got respect from Vince in the office is he was able to get over as his own person rather than in the Biden sorta way where he was "not the other guy". For instance the dueling Cena chants were different with him. Instead of Let's Go Cena/Cena Sucks we got Let's Go Cena/CM Punk. All the indy flavor of the month guys that Cena battled during this time were over in the Virgil/Miz's protege sorta way. They were a placeholder against the guy, but people didn't like them outright. I'm convinced that is why his push while never as THE GUY, was always somewhat consistent.

This is a guy that really should never have made it. Look at his early IWA days with the basketball shorts and stringey hair. Jesus christ what a look. He actually got a gym membership when he went to ROH for six months or however long it was (it was brief let's be honest) and truly made the most of his time. His promos against Raven, the Joe trilogy and of course the Summer of Punk. The latter of course likely what truly got him attention with the internet masses.

Match wise he def. had some good ones, but he could also be incredibly sloppy. Still his strength was always on the microphone. I dunno if it was the supposed "it factor" but he was a guy I was excited to see. I never saw that OVW run, but as soon as he appeared in WWECW I was all in brother. Wasn't even into indy wrestling at the time, but I heard such great things. I remember guys like Bitch absolutely hating him, but I loved what he was doing.

He was a guy that was never THE GUY, but just on a resume standpoint (I know but still) he had one of the greatest careers ever. Title accolades don't mean much especially in the modern era where there's like 4 world titles, but he had his fair share of checkmark accomplishments. Feels like he was just too soon to the indy boom that WWE would plant seeds for. In the same way London was before him, feels like he was the oldest child the parents did all their mistakes with and the middle childs of the world (Rollins) reaped all the benefits. And in that way I could never understand why HHH hated him. Maybe he saw too much of himself in him? Perhaps Punk wasn't the type to keep quiet in a "happy to be here" sorta way that I see guys like Cole and Cesaro tend to be.

You get the idea. Where do you rank Punk in the grand scheme of things? Sure the drama of his quitting, MMA failure (though still commendable), etc. left a sour taste in people's mouths but there's no denying he left his mark. I dunno when the fans stopped (did they?) but the lingering CM Punk chants lasted well after he left, just an infestation like bed bugs. You couldn't stop it!

You're right - he was the guy that was never meant to 'make it'

In fact, that's the opening line to his WWE documentary. Perhaps that was a clever way of marketing him as an outsider to convey the sense he was a revolutionary.

I've said it recently, if HHH/HBK/UT were the last of the old gunslingers, Punk was the last rockstar in wrestling. He was counter-culture as compared to the main eventers of the day, particularly poster boy, John Cena.

Perhaps that's where wrestling is at it's best, when the lead act is rebelling against the status quo ie: nWo, DX, Austin 3:16, Punk, Yes! and to a lesser extent the disruption caused by The Shield attacks.

I won't go into any great depth on his work, we know how good he was. In saying that, it's upsetting two names in Punk and AJ Lee will likely never get the credit for the change they lead that came to WWE (NXT, indie signees, women's revolution) after their departures. A generation owes The Brooks Family.

Oh no doubt Aj gets vastly overlooked in the chapters on women's wrestling. She was such a big deal in and out of the division and due to Punk she never seems to get mentioned or brought up.

Still, after 10 years only one other worker has commanded a crowd response like this, that being Daniel Bryan.

Jul 4, 2021 23:59:42 GMT @ness said:

Oh no doubt AJ gets vastly overlooked in the chapters on women's wrestling. She was such a big deal in and out of the division and due to Punk. she never seems to get mentioned or brought up.

I loved watching AJ in every type of role. She was so much fun to watch. I hated the way they projected the divas on TV. The writing was very sophomoric. I think that plays a big part in AJ being an afterthought sometimes.

Nath is hellbent on getting this "AJ is overlooked" thing over but it's really not true - she's basically always been appreciated for what she did, was universally popular from the moment she showed up on NXT until the time she retired, and obviously was a huge spark behind the #givedivasachance moment. Maybe WWE themselves don't give her quite the adulation you might expect but there are obviously mitigating circumstances involved. We know for a fact that Vince loved her hence the massive push she got being involved in main event storylines, being RAW GM, etc. Time will probably heal some of those wounds, and it's not like she is completely ignored - she was perhaps a little bit low in WWE's recent Top 50 women's wrestlers list, but not outrageously so.

Punk breaking into the main event scene was the last time men's wrestling in WWE was really interesting to me. Daniel Bryan's run afterwards was fun too, but Punk brought a vibrancy and sense of unpredictability to everything that he did that made things feel important and must watch. We all know that one of the biggest problems with WWE is that it is so sanitised, so scripted - so the sense of danger that he brought really cut through - the idea that he could do and say anything made him must watch. It's such a shame they fucked up him taking the title hostage with the interim champions when they had a chance to do something truly unique and different, and that abominable idea to bring back Kevin Nash. At least we'll always have MITB - one of the all time great wrestling moments.

Considering Torrie Wilson is in the HOF and AJ isn't, I would suggest she is incredibly/deliberately overlooked @admin

Over to you.

Jul 5, 2021 2:16:30 GMT NATH45 said:

Considering Torrie Wilson is in the HOF and AJ isn't, I would suggest she is incredibly/deliberately overlooked @admin

Over to you.

The Rock isn't in the Hall of Fame - is he overlooked?

Jul 5, 2021 2:28:45 GMT @admin said:

Jul 5, 2021 2:16:30 GMT NATH45 said:

Considering Torrie Wilson is in the HOF and AJ isn't, I would suggest she is incredibly/deliberately overlooked @admin

Over to you.

The Rock isn't in the Hall of Fame - is he overlooked?

The man has officially been retired for less than 2 years, given the magnitude of his contributions to the industry and to pop-culture, a smart person would save such an occasion until after covid-19 so it can fully be taken advantage of ie; appearances on television, in media, a HOF induction in front of friends, family and an actual crowd and of course the expected final match opposite Roman Reigns. Inducting Rock in 2020 without an audience and later 2021 - what a waste.

So, they inducted Torrie Wilson into the HOF - for what, her ability to dwarf Billy Kidman? 

Punk's stock dropped when he got Colt Cabana caught up in his legal mess and all these stories came out about him being a dick. Cody's infamous 'as lockeroom leader' story and some members of the WWE lockeroom celebrating his defeat at UFC painted Punk as a more polarising figure than we expected. Even his petty rivalry with The Miz made people think less of him.

Otherwise there was a point in time where CM Punk was like a Pro Wrestling god and if you said anything negative about him it was almost blasphemous. In the early 2010s especially, Punk commanded so much respect and deservedly so because he was the only guy who was willing to rock the boat and was able to get people to believe in him.

Punk is a little like Foley. You would never think of Foley as an ass-kicker, tough guy sure, but not an ass-kicker. However when it came to putting matches together and selling personal rivalries there were very few on Foley's level and that's why none of the Foley imitators had that level of success. Fans thought they could be Foley, but lacked all the essential ingredients. Punk fell into the same boat, but he got it and as a result we got matches like the Wrestlemania XXIX match against Taker and the SummerSlam 2013 match against Brock.

The WWE Hall of Fame is just an excuse to pay tribute to former personalities of the show. I think fans put way too much weight on it and fans shitting on inductees is one of my biggest pet peeves.

Torrie Wilson was one of the biggest stars of her era and while her most memorable angle involved Al Wilson, they always found something for her to do on each show and she would usually attract one of the loudest reactions.

I have no doubt AJ Lee's time will come. Torrie made her last TV appearance in 2007 and wasn't inducted until 2019. AJ left in 2015 and she's too busy writing comic books and television scripts to really care about Pro Wrestling.

Just a little note in addition to all the good points you guys raised - loved him on commentary. And how he built an angle out of Cena spilling his Diet Pepsi. That month or so he was doing comms on RAW and also his appearances commentating on NXT I’d make sure to watch every minute of the show as he’d always be reliable to come up with golden sound bites. I might have to watch the MMA promotion he commentates on as I hear he’s still every bit as good and full of cultural references.

Maybe the WWEs decline is all CM Punk's fault.

Jul 4, 2021 18:21:43 GMT @ness said:

MMA failure (though still commendable)

Record is now 0-1-1 - straight edge society ftw!

I cannot stress enough how little of a shit I give about CM Punk in 2021. When he was around, he was great. Loved the post-firing podcasts he did with Colt.

But boy howdy, nothing makes me check out faster than a fanfic or a YouTube video of one of those booking simulator games and I see or hear "And them CM PUNK-" I just click right out.

Jul 16, 2021 7:08:36 GMT KITN said:

I cannot stress enough how little of a shit I give about CM Punk in 2021. When he was around, he was great. Loved the post-firing podcasts he did with Colt.

But boy howdy, nothing makes me check out faster than a fanfic or a YouTube video of one of those booking simulator games and I see or hear "And them CM PUNK-" I just click right out.

Is this why you don't follow 1RealSmartAlex's American Rasslin' Theatre?

Punk outside the business to me was kind of like Herny Rollins to pop culture. He's a fantastic, natural talker, someone who would talk your head off on the right subject for hours.

I've always wanted these two in a room talking 'life' punk rock, touring, DIY, wrestling, etc.

And wondered why someone hasn't done it yet, even with just Punk on a regular basis.

Fantastic mic worker, but above average in the ring at best.

Aug 11, 2021 16:36:58 GMT thereallt said:

Fantastic mic worker, but above average in the ring at best.

Complete the Bret Hart Rating System™ by telling us what you thought of CM Punk's look!

Aug 11, 2021 16:41:23 GMT 🤯 said:

Aug 11, 2021 16:36:58 GMT thereallt said:

Fantastic mic worker, but above average in the ring at best.

Complete the Bret Hart Rating System ™ by telling us what you thought of CM Punk's look!

I'll give him an A for his look. It was perfect for the character he was portraying.