After watching recent video by the YouTube channel "Wrestle Me", they pointed out something I had never thought about; the "Razor" part of Razor Ramon is a reference to the cocaine aspect of the gimmick playing off of Tony Montana.😂

Aug 16, 2024 16:46:19 GMT Leper Messiah said:

After watching recent video by the YouTube channel "Wrestle Me", they pointed out something I had never thought about; the "Razor" part of Razor Ramon is a reference to the cocaine aspect of the gimmick playing off of Tony Montana.😂

That's subtle but hilarious!

The Funks are built different. 

Look @ that SPARK and compare it to what we got in AEW. Fucking SHAMEFUL.

Oasis is back together, lads. 

Seeing a bunch of Halloween merchandise at the store today reminded me of Halloween Hell 1998. Not Havoc. Hell. Storytime...

It was around the beginning of the 1998 school year that I started closely following APW online. Maybe September, maybe October. We were without the internet at home during this stretch, so I'd duck into the school computer room, or ride over to one of three local libraries whenever I could to get my wrestling newz fix and check out the APW site.

Halloween Hell was The Big One. This was their Wrestlemania. It was the show they had been building to for months. It was the last show at the "world famous" APW Garage. It was the final APW show for Vic Grimes & Erin "Crash Holly" O'Grady before they relocated to Memphis where they'd be working for WWF's PPW developmental fed. And it was the show where longtime heel champ Maxx Justice would finally face his former partner Michael Modest after months of dodging him...

This was a Really Big Deal. Indie wrestling in those days rarely built up a match this well for a variety of reasons. I forget the exact details, but it was some sort of 93-94 Lex Luger deal where Modest could "never again" get a shot at Justice but, against all odds, Modest somehow completed this seemingly impossible quest to earn a shot at a Champion who had defeated every other top contender. Modest himself was a former bad boy who had seen the light. Now he was Roland's Golden Boy. He was The One. And surely, he would take the title from the hated Maxx Justice after months of build at Halloween Hell in the biggest match APW could possibly produce...

Only what happened was dancing midcard goofball Boom Boom Comini threw a monkey wrench into everything by upsetting Justice on a throwaway show two weeks before Halloween Hell. This was mind-boggling to 1998 me. It would be like if Wrestlemania 2000 was slated to be main evented by HHH/Rock, as it should have been, only to have Rikishi upset Triple H for the title on Smackdown two weeks before 'Mania. A major wtf decision even in real time.

Modest kept his title shot at Halloween Hell and easily dispatched midcard for life Comini to become the new champ. Still have no idea why Roland pulled such a boneheaded move. Not that literally anyone else in the world actually cares about this! Truly putting the RANDOM in the Random Thoughts thread. But I had to get it out of my system. My working theory is Comini must have sold a bunch of tickets to some show. Perhaps even as many as 30. Which would double the attendance to a typical APW Garage show! Honestly wish Rolo were still around just so I could ask him about this.

That is something only you would remember, and while the stakes are low, an all time blunder.

Modest had an interesting career. I remember him being one of the top rated indie guys back in the 2000's. I thought he'd end up getting either a WWE/TNA contract at some point but never did (TNA run, but it was brief). Hardly worked for ROH either, which is more surprising.

He had a definitive ceiling but it's still odd how low key his career ultimately became.

Aug 29, 2024 5:53:29 GMT rad said:

Modest had an interesting career. I remember him being one of the top rated indie guys back in the 2000's. I thought he'd end up getting either a WWE/TNA contract at some point but never did (TNA run, but it was brief). Hardly worked for ROH either, which is more surprising.

He had a definitive ceiling but it's still odd how low key his career ultimately became.

Indeed. The one thing I'll say in Modest's defense is his goal was always to work Japan and he did have a steady 4 year run in NOAH when that promotion was a pretty big deal. So, there's a chance Modest himself would deem his career a success.

He didn't have a great look or a ton of charisma. Which only makes him ideal for early ROH! As you hinted at. I know his running buddy Donovan Morgan ended up having heat there for a combination of laziness/bad attitude/big ego and having dealt with Modest on the APW message board, I can confirm he had a very abrasive personality. Very much a small name, big ego guy who thought his shit didn't stink. Think an even more small time Low Ki. So, it's possible his attitude also turned people there off, and that's why he was one and done with ROH. Just a theory. And, again, Japan was always his goal.  Meaning it's entirely possible he didn't care about working here in the States beyond running his little APW offshoot promotion out in California.

Modest is hardly alone among that first wave of Apter Mag/internet indie darlings not amounting to much. Reckless Youth, the east coast Mike Modest, instantly comes to mind. He did even less than Mikey Modest- a brief WWF developmental run, main eventing the first Chikara show, a few months in the ROH midcard, and...a whole lot of nothing. Then you get guys like Vic Grimes, Julio Sanchez, Ace Darling, Flash Flanagan, Christian York, Scoot Andrews, Lance/Simon Diamond, Devon "Crowbar" Storm, Steve Bradley, etc. who, while not on that tippy top tier level of Modest & Youth, were still hyped by people in the know, yet ultimately did little or nothing in big time wrestling. Wasn't my scene, but you can also throw in all those CZW Nicks and Rics jumping off trucks into weed whackers or what have you. Truth is that second wave of indie stars (early ROH era) blew the first wave guys out of the water, thereby rendering them obsolete. 

Aug 29, 2024 2:09:44 GMT Baker said:

It was around the beginning of the 1998 school year that I started closely following APW online. Maybe September, maybe October. 

Way too vague. Upon further review, I can come closer to pinpointing the exact date. It was either 9/20/98 or 9/21/98. Reason being Christopher Daniels blew my mind against Taka on the 9/19/98 Shotgun, and I remembered Jim Cornette mentioning APW* as Daniels' home promotion, so I made sure to check it out the next time I got to the school computer room or library. I think the libraries were still closed on Sunday the 20th, so it would have been Monday the 21st when I became an obsessive visitor to the APW website. 

*I actually learned of APW a few months before this because the most annoying member of my Wrestling Knowledge Organization internet clique (he actually founded the WKO before getting kicked out of his very own group- THAT's how annoying this dude was! lol) was a Bay Area resident who forever hyping his "hella good" local promotion, APW. BUT, since he quickly grew to resemble one of his three wrestling heroes in Shawn Michaels, I largely ignored the guy, filing that APW thing away in the back of mind rather than treating it with any urgency until Taka & Daniels collaborated on the GOAT Shotgun match.

And to tie both segments of this post together, the Big 3 of 1999 indie wrestling were Michael Modest, Reckless Youth, and my guy Christopher Daniels- the one who made it. 

Aug 30, 2024 2:21:32 GMT Baker said:

And to tie both segments of this post together, the Big 3 of 1999 indie wrestling were Michael Modest, Reckless Youth, and my guy Christopher Daniels- the one who made it. 

Reckless Youth really became like a mythical figure. And then when you finally saw him it was like, "This is it?" It was partially expectations that no one could live up to, but also, he just wasn't that good. The good thing I will say about Youth was that he was a better sports entertainer than wrestler. He actually had a gimmick. And would work heel psychology. In the indies. In 1997! The fact that the late '90s was basically an arms race of Movez and he didn't have any is really what made him seem like nothing special. And even his sports entertainment prowess was a sliding scale of refreshing in a high school gym, but nothing special in the Big 3. That being said, it was still inexcusable Paul E. didn't use him in ECW.

Modest was like Youth, except without any of the potential for a gimmick or advancing charisma. He did have a cool finisher, though. I think that was like 90% the Modest hype. A cool finisher really does go a long way.

Daniels was so clearly the best of the three, so it was unsurprising he was the one that made it. I gotta say, the Fallen Angel gimmick was kind of lame to me. It was basically a goth gimmick for the least looking goth man who ever lived. But it was a gimmick! Like Reckless Youth, that was very cool for its time. And unlike Youth, Daniels could deliver the Movez. And the matches.

Aug 30, 2024 4:07:28 GMT Kilgore said:

Reckless Youth really became like a mythical figure. And then when you finally saw him it was like, "This is it?" It was partially expectations that no one could live up to, but also, he just wasn't that good. The good thing I will say about Youth was that he was a better sports entertainer than wrestler. He actually had a gimmick. And would work heel psychology. In the indies. In 1997! The fact that the late '90s was basically an arms race of Movez and he didn't have any is really what made him seem like nothing special. And even his sports entertainment prowess was a sliding scale of refreshing in a high school gym, but nothing special in the Big 3. That being said, it was still inexcusable Paul E. didn't use him in ECW.

Modest was like Youth, except without any of the potential for a gimmick or advancing charisma. He did have a cool finisher, though. I think that was like 90% the Modest hype. A cool finisher really does go a long way.

Daniels was so clearly the best of the three, so it was unsurprising he was the one that made it. I gotta say, the Fallen Angel gimmick was kind of lame to me. It was basically a goth gimmick for the least looking goth man who ever lived. But it was a gimmick! Like Reckless Youth, that was very cool for its time. And unlike Youth, Daniels could deliver the Movez. And the matches.

That's a good Reckless Youth take. Though his first-rate Frog Splash deserves a shoutout. He got real froggy with it. And didn't he do a Snow Plow as well? Another thing working against him was his 1//10 look. Dude looked like he was still in high school.  Not a lot of room in turn of the century big time wrestling for a 5'7 160 pounder dressed like Raven lite. We're still 15 years away from Adam Cole, so the only way a guy Youth's size is getting a look back then is in a Spike/Mikey bump fiend role or by being an all-time great talent like Mysterio. Iirc Reckless Youth asked for his Developmental release when they wanted to make him a manager. Major mistake. Should have embraced the role, studied his Bobby Heenan tapes, and learn to wrestle like "The Brain."

I'll grit my teeth and give my old message board nemesis Mike Modest a little more credit than you did. He didn't just have a cool finisher. He had cool moves, period. Great Death Valley Driver. Great suplexes ("better than Taz!" according to the egomaniac himself). This cool arm ringer thing he would do. A cool signature corner bump. I may have even been a little harsh in my last post when I wrote "he didn't have a ton of charisma" because he DID connect with APW crowds. Though, in my defense, his 'charisma' outside of APW seemed to consist of nothing more than a cheesy thumbs up coupled with goofy grin. But he did have SOMETHING in front of his home audience. Truth is I'm pretty sure 90% of my Modest hate comes from negative interactions with him back in the day lol.

Yeah, Daniels was definitely the most polished of the three. Worth noting even "the one who made it" took years to catch on, almost two decades to finally win a mid-major World Title, and never did work WWE full time. We differ on the gimmick. You didn't like it whereas I got worked. The fact that he was a good wrestler guy WITH A GIMMICK was a major part of the appeal for me. Every other good wrestler guy was either a generic Jerry Lynn clone or a generic tuff guy whereas here's a good wrestler guy with an actual gimmick/character/personality. Sign me up! Took me literal years to realize his entire "gimmick" was nothing more than a priest robe and the occasional ankh on his gear. He didn't do anything with the whole "Fallen Angel" thing! The one time they tried in TNA, it bombed hard. And the Raven lite "Prophecy" faction in ROH was half-hearted at best. His nemesis and mine, CM Punk, did the whole cult leader thing a hundred times better. And keep in mind this stuff didn't happen until 4-5 after I originally encountered "Phony Angel" Christopher Daniels.

Looking at his Cagematch profile, it is crazy that Reckless Youth only wrestled one match for ECW, considering he lived on the East Coast. Modest probably didn't have the finances to get out to Philly, so I get him not working for ECW. It does seem like Daniels time in ECW is mostly forgotten, but then again, he was only there for a handful of matches

Feels like around WrestleMania everyone was hyped that there was new wrestling boom coming and that seems to have not happened. In fact, Raw ratings have been down the entire year compared to last year (which was down from the previous year, which has been the trend for basically two decades). So, uh, what was that wrestling boom talk about?

AEW ratings have been going down too, but that practically goes without saying. That's just a law of nature, at this point.

Aug 31, 2024 14:17:05 GMT Leper Messiah said:

Looking at his Cagematch profile, it is crazy that Reckless Youth only wrestled one match for ECW, considering he lived on the East Coast.

Forgot all about this. It was around the same time, if not the very same show, Tajiri, Crazy, and Corino also debuted on.

It does seem like Daniels time in ECW is mostly forgotten, but then again, he was only there for a handful of matches

Forgot about this as well which is doubly bad considering I saw him battle Rhino live at the ECW Arena. Also, fairly certain suffering through Rhino going over my indie hero there subconsciously contributed to my Rhino dislike over the next two years. For all the talk about the ECW Arena having "the smartest fans in wrestling" it's worth noting Daniels was the opposite of over. I was marking out. My cousin went along with me to an extent. But it was silence from the other 1000+ in attendance. "The smartest fans in wrestling" had no clue who he was.

Just realized Daniels, Kid Kash, Simon Diamond, and Rhino all debuted around the same time as well. Did I inadvertently stumble upon Heyman's roster management style? Was he a reloader? Meaning every six months or so he'd bring a crop of new guys in all at once? Just a theory...

Modest probably didn't have the finances to get out to Philly, so I get him not working for ECW.

This bit triggered yet another latent memory. Sometime in late 98, or more likely 99, I fantasy booked like two years worth of ECW pay per views in one of my trusty notebooks. After a year or so/6-7 shows, I realized I was just going around in circles so my big idea to spice things up was an APW Invasion that would carry things for another 6 months to a year. Now a little-known California indie that struggled to draw 100 people invading ECW is laughable in hindsight, but 1999 me thought it was genius. Obviously Modest & Daniels were going to be the APW leaders getting that big push and Pure Wrestling vs. Hardcore was going to be a part of it.

And to prove no good idea I had ever gets permanently forgotten, I was planning on doing another APW Invasion for the 1998 Super Indie fanfic project I was doing right here on PW a few years back. It was going to be an East Coast vs. West Coast deal borrowing from Bret's Canada vs. USA thing in 1997 WWF. Modest & Daniels were penciled in to win the top title and the West Side Playaz (Boyce LeGrande & Robert Thompson) were going to be tag champs.

Sept 2, 2024 1:48:10 GMT Baker said:

Aug 31, 2024 14:17:05 GMT Leper Messiah said:

Looking at his Cagematch profile, it is crazy that Reckless Youth only wrestled one match for ECW, considering he lived on the East Coast.

Forgot all about this. It was around the same time, if not the very same show, Tajiri, Crazy, and Corino also debuted on.

Just realized Daniels, Kid Kash, Simon Diamond, and Rhino all debuted around the same time as well. Did I inadvertently stumble upon Heyman's roster management style? Was he a reloader? Meaning every six months or so he'd bring a crop of new guys in all at once? Just a theory...

Let's find out... 

ECW Debuts

Tajiri 12/19/98
Steve Corino 12/19/98
Super Crazy 12/26/98
Reckless Youth 12/26/98
Rhino 4/10/99 (full time start- he also worked a show [tryout match?] on 2/19/99)
Simon Diamond 5/7/99
Kid Kash 6/11/99 (return)
Christopher Daniels 6/17/99

Verdict: That Tajiri/Crazy/Corino/Reckless group does feel like a conscious attempt to reload, though it might be a stretch to say the same about the Rhino/Diamond/Kash/Daniels group.

Sept 2, 2024 2:01:04 GMT Baker said:

Sept 2, 2024 1:48:10 GMT Baker said:

Forgot all about this. It was around the same time, if not the very same show, Tajiri, Crazy, and Corino also debuted on.

Just realized Daniels, Kid Kash, Simon Diamond, and Rhino all debuted around the same time as well. Did I inadvertently stumble upon Heyman's roster management style? Was he a reloader? Meaning every six months or so he'd bring a crop of new guys in all at once? Just a theory...

Let's find out... 

ECW Debuts

Tajiri 12/19/98
Steve Corino 12/19/98
Super Crazy 12/26/98
Reckless Youth 12/26/98
Rhino 4/10/99 (full time start- he also worked a show [tryout match?] on 2/19/99)
Simon Diamond 5/7/99
Kid Kash 6/11/99 (return)
Christopher Daniels 6/17/99

Verdict: That Tajiri/Crazy/Corino/Reckless group does feel like a conscious attempt to reload, though it might be a stretch to say the same about the Rhino/Diamond/Kash/Daniels group.

It's kind of insane that Reckless Youth was, by far, the most well known. Like if there was a fantasy draft of those names in early December 1998, Reckless Youth is getting drafted #1 by pretty much everyone on the internet. 

Remember how confused StrictlyECW was that Youth didn't get hired? With hindsight, we gotta give Paul E. a little credit. He obviously saw that Youth was not as good as his hype. But even still. Paul E. as the "hide the negatives/accentuate the positives" guy, I still think Youth could have had a good run in ECW, certainly better than Simon Diamond, and I'm the guy who basically roasted Reckless Youth a couple days ago. 

Kilgore pretty sure I had yet to discover Strictly ECW at the time of Youth's one and done appearance, but I definitely remember the denizens of that site pushing hard for ECW to sign Youth (and Daniels!) when I did show up some time later.

Randomocity Hodgepodge

I recently heard from a trusted source that Rick Rude was almost an original Road Warrior alongside Hawk. How different would wrestling history have turned out if that had been the case?
========
The same source also said the first "BORING" chant he ever heard was in August 1984. Oddly enough, it was the casual, 'family' crowd brought in by the rise of Hulkamania who originated the "BORING" chant here in traditional WWF country. This guy, a New Englander who has been a fan since '76, claims hardcore, longtime fans like himself would allegedly even get into the opening match jobber encounters in those days. Guy went on about how mind blowing those early "BORING" chants were. Like it clearly never would have crossed his mind to chant "BORING." Have to admit I can relate to an extent. First time the "BORING" chant registered with me in the mid 90s* I was like "How rude!" 

*I'm sure I heard it earlier than that, but it didn't register with me until 95-96.
========
This one is up there with my recent APW Halloween Hell '98 post for pure randomness lol. When Smackdown became The Guerrero Show, so we're talking Winter-Spring 2004, DVDVR Dean went on a fantasy booking tangent with the premise being "Eddie Guerrero gets WCW Hulk Hogan power." Eddie then proceeds to bring in a bunch of guys Dean assumed to be Guerrero's friends such as El Hijo del Santo, Silver King, Jushin Liger, etc. Smackdown suddenly turns into this DVDVR/Smark wet dream. So far, so good. But this is where the genius of Dean really shines through...

He then goes on to make a point about how Fictional Eddie is doing the exact same thing WCW Hogan did with the only difference being Eddie's (admittedly theoretical) friends are considered good workers whereas Hogan's were considered bad. Therefore, Eddie's power tripping is 'good' whereas Hogan's was 'bad.' I really can't do it justice (it was a series of internet posts 20 years ago- just be glad I remember it at all), but the payoff was one heck of a 'gotcha' pointing out the hypocrisy of wrestling fans. And it did, albeit ever so briefly, cause me to see Hogan in a better light. (Doing good by his friends is good and should be praised! Hogan didn't forget where he came from!) Plus, given my contrarian streak, I just got a kick out of Dean's 'gotcha.' Let's face it. Not a single hardcore fan would have been complaining if Hogan's friends getting pushes and cushy jobs had been Sabu, Too Cold Scorpio, and Cactus Jack rather than Beefcake, Duggan, and Earthquake.

Sept 2, 2024 3:08:10 GMT Baker said:

This one is up there with my recent APW Halloween Hell '98 post for pure randomness lol. When Smackdown became The Guerrero Show, so we're talking Winter-Spring 2004, DVDVR Dean went on a fantasy booking tangent with the premise being "Eddie Guerrero gets WCW Hulk Hogan power." Eddie then proceeds to bring in a bunch of guys Dean assumed to be Guerrero's friends such as El Hijo del Santo, Silver King, Jushin Liger, etc. Smackdown suddenly turns into this DVDVR/Smark wet dream. So far, so good. But this is where the genius of Dean really shines through...

He then goes on to make a point about how Fictional Eddie is doing the exact same thing WCW Hogan did with the only difference being Eddie's (admittedly theoretical) friends are considered good workers whereas Hogan's were considered bad. Therefore, Eddie's power tripping is 'good' whereas Hogan's was 'bad.' I really can't do it justice (it was a series of internet posts 20 years ago- just be glad I remember it at all), but the payoff was one heck of a 'gotcha' pointing out the hypocrisy of wrestling fans. And it did, albeit ever so briefly, cause me to see Hogan in a better light. (Doing good by his friends is good and should be praised! Hogan didn't forget where he came from!) Plus, given my contrarian streak, I just got a kick out of Dean's 'gotcha.' Let's face it. Not a single hardcore fan would have been complaining if Hogan's friends getting pushes and cushy jobs had been Sabu, Too Cold Scorpio, and Cactus Jack rather than Beefcake, Duggan, and Earthquake.

Hogan being like, "Vince, I'm digging this whole bring HulkaMania to the WWF, dude. But I will only sign if you also sign my friends, brother." And his friends are:



Inoki, Fujinami, Tiger Mask, Lawler, Bockwinkle and Stan Hansen.

Looking into some of Hulk's buddies before Hulkamania started running wild in the WWF, I found out that he and Terry Funk had an interesting relationship.

In 1977, when Hogan was getting nowhere in wrestling, he thought about quitting, and Terry Funk convinced him to keep at it. Hogan considered Funk a mentor, of sorts.

In 1982/1983 is when things get real interesting, though.

Funk, at the top of All Japan, and Hulk, getting groomed to be at the top of New Japan, Funk thought he convinced Hulk to jump ship to All Japan. New Japan and All Japan were engaged in some proto-Monday Night Wars swerves at the time, so this would have been a big deal. 

Funk and Hogan even wrestled each other in South Africa around that time, behind the backs of both All Japan and New Japan, since neither company would approve their guy losing. Funk put Hogan over, probably to sweeten the idea of Hulk jumping ship, a little favor for the favor, also that's what the South African promoters wanted with Hogan coming off Rocky III. There is no recording of this match, unfortunately, but that was partially why they did it. They thought the news of the match would never make it to Japan.

What ended up happening, and we'll never know the order with Funk being dead, and Hulk being a pathological liar:

1. The South African match result gets leaked to the Japanese press.

2. Terry Funk, with a camera crew, goes to Hogan's hotel to challenge him.

3. Hogan stays in New Japan.

4. Hogan immediately gets a babyface turn and is booked to unprecedented heights as an American in New Japan.

The insinuation is that Hogan ratted out Funk asking him to jump ship and used it as leverage to get the New Japan push. "I'm loyal to New Japan, brother." Then he wins the IWGP tournament a few weeks later.

The result gets leaked to the Japanese press is so fascinating to think about it. Two scenarios, of opposite intentions, both make complete sense.

1. Hogan and Funk leak it together to set up the hotel challenge and Hogan's eventual All Japan debut.

2. Hogan or New Japan or both leak it behind Funk's back to make it look like New Japan's top American beat All Japan's top American, look how superior we are to All Japan. And Funk did the challenge to try to save face for himself and All Japan. 

In the long list of dirty things Hogan did for career reasons, I think this is pretty low on that list. Deciding not to jump ship isn't an asshole move. If anything, it would have been more of an asshole move to jump ship. The degree that Funk was left in the dark is the only thing worth getting mad at Hulk about, but we'll never know. Funk and Hogan worked together a lot in 1985, so Funk obviously didn't hold a grudge. 

I do think, though, however one looks at this series of events, this is another example of Hogan's savvy being incredibly underrated. He had a run of decisions during this period that made him the biggest wrestler in both America and Japan, while also appearing in a mainstream movie, before Vince McMahon came calling. I maintain that Vince needed Hulk more than Hulk needed Vince. Hulkamania was ruling everywhere he went, brother. 

Whoa. Great find with the Hogan/Funk stuff. I'd never heard that before. 

Sept 2, 2024 4:14:42 GMT Kilgore said:

Hogan being like, "Vince, I'm digging this whole bring HulkaMania to the WWF, dude. But I will only sign if you also sign my friends, brother." And his friends are:



Inoki, Fujinami, Tiger Mask, Lawler, Bockwinkle and Stan Hansen.

Would have completely changed smark perception of The Hulkster. For as politically savvy as Hogan was, he made a big mistake in the 90s by simply not having internet-cool friends. Should have been hanging and banging with Reckless Youth & Mikey Modest, brother. They'd never be a threat to his top spot, and it would have bought him IWC cred. 
==========
Speaking of Modest, I had forgotten just how snakebit the dude was. Today I remembered Kevin Sullivan was high on the guy* and brought him during his 2000 run as booker in between Russo stints. Modest was allegedly penciled in to win the Cruiserweight Title (from Prince Iaukea iirc) when Russo & Bischoff were brought back. Modest promptly got lost in the shuffle and disappeared. 

Then WCW brings him back towards the bitter end to work Christopher Daniels(!) on Nitro. Daniels has a bad botch and Scott Steiner ended up wrecking them both. BUT they were still rumored to be in line for a job when Bischoff/Fusient took over. And we all know what happened then. But just think. 2001 WCW could have featured Modest, Daniels, and AJ Styles tearing it up in the Cruiserweight Division.

That Modest/Daniels WCW match was right around the same time as the 2001 ECWA Super 8 which turned American Dragon & Low Ki into smark darlings and really kicked off the early 2000s indie boom imo. Modest would be pretty much reduced to a non-entity within a year. It's wild how quickly the Modests and Youths of the world were rendered obsolete.

*Legend has it Sullivan dug Modest because he reminded him of himself. Story goes Sullivan saw this shorter guy and was like "Yes! He's me. Sign him." I swear this was the rumor going around at the time! If true, Kevin Sullivan has to be only person out there who saw Michael Modest as being similar to himself.

The Daniels vs. Modest Nitro Tryout Match was one of those early internet hyped events that obviously no one in real life cared about. I was hyped, obviously. Daniels was my favorite "free agent" and Modest had enough goodwill with his reputation, his movez, and the couple APW matches I saw in the Summer of 2000.

I also watched more WCW in the dying years than anyone should have. I always maintained hope they would get it together. I wanted to believe.

When Daniels vs. Modest disappointed both as a match, and clearly only existing to have Steiner pull a Taz on a couple of jobbers, it was disappointing, to say the least. Daniels was lucky he didn't break his neck, from what I remember. He pretty much pulled a Hayabusa and just walked away like nothing happened.

I kinda see the Kevin Sullivan comparison. Short, that stocky fat guy muscularity, balding, Modest was kind of a Sullivan type.

Modest was kind of like Warrant. Hair metal ruling, huge hit, surely they will be a huge band of the future. Then Nirvana (Low Ki) shows up and it's fucking over.

Do we consider the asshole chant the official time keeper for the attitude era? Did it end around the same time give or take a few years?

Does anyone notice WWE use the term " where with all " or wherewithal incredibly frequently?

Am I miss hearing it?

And why does it sound out of place? Because, it means.. the money or other means needed for a particular purpose.

But WWE use it to describe a wrestler being aware of his surroundings and aware and avoiding the imminent danger.

Sept 3, 2024 1:53:46 GMT Kilgore said:

The Daniels vs. Modest Nitro Tryout Match was one of those early internet hyped events that obviously no one in real life cared about. I was hyped, obviously. Daniels was my favorite "free agent" and Modest had enough goodwill with his reputation, his movez, and the couple APW matches I saw in the Summer of 2000.

Was that the match where Daniels slipped off the rope, IIRC, and gave himself a stinger, finishing the match out with basically one arm? I remember that most about Daniels time in WCW

Sept 4, 2024 14:24:54 GMT Leper Messiah said:

Sept 3, 2024 1:53:46 GMT Kilgore said:

The Daniels vs. Modest Nitro Tryout Match was one of those early internet hyped events that obviously no one in real life cared about. I was hyped, obviously. Daniels was my favorite "free agent" and Modest had enough goodwill with his reputation, his movez, and the couple APW matches I saw in the Summer of 2000.

Was that the match where Daniels slipped off the rope, IIRC, and gave himself a stinger, finishing the match out with basically one arm? I remember that most about Daniels time in WCW

Yes, exactly. 

AEW's Tony Schiavone Explains Why He Won't Watch Netflix's WWE-Vince McMahon Series

Guffawed reading that quote.

Sept 6, 2024 1:17:45 GMT Kilgore said:

AEW's Tony Schiavone Explains Why He Won't Watch Netflix's WWE-Vince McMahon Series

Guffawed reading that quote.

I just watched the trailer for the documentary, hard pass on this one. "He took a dump on an employee but look what he created as a business mastermind..." is the vibe I'm getting. With Netflix getting the rights to Raw this is going to be nothing but a puff piece.

What if Rick Rubin held off a few years and invested in ECW or just invested in ECW after Smoky went under? I admittedly don't know a ton about the guy, but it feels like ECW/Paul E. would have been a much, much better fit for him than SMW/Corny.

Rubin loved the wild, blood & guts stuff. He was a relatively hands off* owner. Not that it really matters, but I'm sure his music industry connections would have allowed ECW to legally use all that popular music. Maybe his industry connections even allow ECW to get an earlier/better tv deal? Just something to think about...

*The only thing he allegedly strongarmed Cornette into was the mummy. A mummy in ECW would be an even worse fit than a mummy in Smoky. And I'm sure the whole thing eventually degenerates into a courtroom battle when Paul tries stealing the territory from Rubin. But it's still a fun 'what if!'
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For 20-25 years I knew Barry Horowitz worked the 80s Southern territories as Brett Hart but only in the past week did I discover the origin of that familiar name. It turns out an old wrestler named Angelo Mosca was booking the Florida territory in the early 80s when Real Bret Hart was about to make his first extended excursion to America. Mosca had heat with Stu over having to job to Abdullah the Butcher in 1970, so he was dead set against Stu's son Bret (who was 12 at the time of the Abdullah job) getting any kind of break in the States. Therefore, he christened jobber Horowitz "Brett Hart" to hurt Real Bret Hart's drawing power in the US. That, my friends, is some next level pettiness. 

Sept 9, 2024 23:31:00 GMT Baker said:

What if Rick Rubin held off a few years and invested in ECW or just invested in ECW after Smoky went under? I admittedly don't know a ton about the guy, but it feels like ECW/Paul E. would have been a much, much better fit for him than SMW/Corny.

Rubin loved the wild, blood & guts stuff. He was a relatively hands off* owner. Not that it really matters, but I'm sure his music industry connections would have allowed ECW to legally use all that popular music. Maybe his industry connections even allow ECW to get an earlier/better tv deal? Just something to think about...

*The only thing he allegedly strongarmed Cornette into was the mummy. A mummy in ECW would be an even worse fit than a mummy in Smoky. And I'm sure the whole thing eventually degenerates into a courtroom battle when Paul tries stealing the territory from Rubin. But it's still a fun 'what if!'
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For 20-25 years I knew Barry Horowitz worked the 80s Southern territories as Brett Hart but only in the past week did I discover the origin of that familiar name. It turns out an old wrestler named Angelo Mosca was booking the Florida territory in the early 80s when Real Bret Hart was about to make his first extended excursion to America. Mosca had heat with Stu over having to job to Abdullah the Butcher in 1970, so he was dead set against Stu's son Bret (who was 12 at the time of the Abdullah job) getting any kind of break in the States. Therefore, he christened jobber Horowitz "Brett Hart" to hurt Real Bret Hart's drawing power in the US. That, my friends, is some next level pettiness. 

Angelo Mosca holds a grudge so this is no surpirse. This made the rounds on sports blooper reels.



This was a carry over from a feud between Angelo Mosca and BC legend Joe Kapp from their 1960's stints in the CFL. Mosca is a Hamilton Tiger-Cat Legend and one of the meanest defensive players in CFL history. Joe Kapp was one of the better QBs in BC Lions history.

D'oh. Good call Shootist. And shame on me for the second post in a row over forgetting Mosca was the other guy in the old man fight with Minnesota Viking legend "Nutty" Joe Kapp. My 90s wrestling fan cousin and I got a kick out of that old man throwdown around a decade ago.