Always a source of debate in my home.

What say you, PW?

Also, I deserve to be shamed for misspelling accordingly.

UT said it best in the Christmas movie countdown:

Nov 30, 2017 18:06:52 GMT UT said:

I'm going to start by saying where I stand on the great Die Hard controversy: It is not a Christmas movie , I'm sorry it's just not. It has Christmas elements and plot points but it's not at it's heart a "christmas movie" in the way most people perceive a christmas movie to be. Two things that really form my opinion on this:

1. It's not in my rotation at all around Christmas time and never will be , it doesn't incite the feeling of Christmas time because it's not really suppose to.

2. Most importantly and the nail in the Christmas movie argument for me: It's a movie that can be watched any time of the year for any reason what so ever. You you aren't going to put Elf , The Grinch or The Santa Clause in during the middle of July because they are Christmas movies made for a certain time of the year. You can and SHOULD watch Die Hard twelve months a year because at it's heart it's an action/heist movie , if it was truly a Christmas movie you couldn't say that.

I was channel surfing and came across whatever news show SE Cupp hosts and they actually talked about it and their reasoning made a lot of sense. I always thought it was just a meme answer for when people ask what your favorite X-Mas movie is. But if the dude's wife is named Holly... it's hard to argue that it isn't.

Yes. The entire movie takes place during a Christmas Party for fuck's sake. Just because it doesn't drown itself in Christmas movie schmaltz shouldn't be held against it. Growing up with divorced parents, Die Hard was the old man and I's Christmas movie. We thought we invented the tradition.

Dec 16, 2017 21:16:32 GMT Kilgore said:

Yes. The entire movie takes place during a Christmas Party for fuck's sake. Just because it doesn't drown itself in Christmas movie schmaltz shouldn't be held against it. Growing up with divorced parents, Die Hard was the old man and I's Christmas movie. We thought we invented the tradition.

Is Batman Returns a Christmas movie?

Dec 16, 2017 20:48:09 GMT Emperor said:

UT said it best in the Christmas movie countdown:

Nov 30, 2017 18:06:52 GMT UT said:

I'm going to start by saying where I stand on the great Die Hard controversy: It is not a Christmas movie , I'm sorry it's just not. It has Christmas elements and plot points but it's not at it's heart a "christmas movie" in the way most people perceive a christmas movie to be. Two things that really form my opinion on this:

1. It's not in my rotation at all around Christmas time and never will be , it doesn't incite the feeling of Christmas time because it's not really suppose to.

2. Most importantly and the nail in the Christmas movie argument for me: It's a movie that can be watched any time of the year for any reason what so ever. You you aren't going to put Elf , The Grinch or The Santa Clause in during the middle of July because they are Christmas movies made for a certain time of the year. You can and SHOULD watch Die Hard twelve months a year because at it's heart it's an action/heist movie , if it was truly a Christmas movie you couldn't say that.

1. I'll have to give the bad news to Cable for the past 30 years because Die Hard is always in rotation during Christmas time. 

2. Once again, the fact that Die Hard is fucking awesome is somehow penalizing it. You can't watch Elf or The Santa Clause during the Summer because Elf and The Santa Claus sucks. You tolerate its existence for a couple weeks a year because that's all it's good for. Nobody would say, "The Beach Boys isn't really a good summer music band because I quite enjoy listening to Pet Sounds on cold rainy days too." The Beach Boys were the ultimate summer band, but they were so good they transcended just being that. 

Dec 16, 2017 21:20:55 GMT KJ said:

Dec 16, 2017 21:16:32 GMT Kilgore said:

Yes. The entire movie takes place during a Christmas Party for fuck's sake. Just because it doesn't drown itself in Christmas movie schmaltz shouldn't be held against it. Growing up with divorced parents, Die Hard was the old man and I's Christmas movie. We thought we invented the tradition.

Is Batman Returns a Christmas movie?

Saw it once 25 years ago. I have no idea. It wasn't good, that's all I can say with certainty. 

Yes it is.

1). It takes place at a Christmas party and makes reference to it being Christmas throughout.
2). "Die Hard is about Christmas - it’s a family redemption story about about personal suffering in the service of fellow man, in defiance of systemic avarice. It’s pure Dickens. But with machine guns." Some guy on twitter

nightmare before christmas and Black Christmas are just as much Christmas movies.

Is "Go" a Christmas movie?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_(1999_film)

Is Office Christmas Party a Christmas movie!?

🤯, very much yes

It's an insult calling Die Hard a Christmas movie. It has nothing in common with the values of Christmas, and only uses the tradition as a creative vehicle to give the film some stakes.

It wasn't even released around Christmas and the only reason cable companies throw it into the rotation is because they only made so many Santa Clause sequels.

Die Hard has love and families.

It's definitely more of a Christmas movie than Passion of the Christ is an Easter movie.

Pffft, if you want to include a Top 10 Easter movies so you can have 'Hop' on it, by all means bag out the Mel Gibson masochistic jewish guilt movie.

I'll be in the camp that says no, but it's a film I fucking love, so who cares.

I'm going to say absolutely not. While it's set during Christmas, there's nothing about the film that requires Christmas. It could be during a random party in June and still work.

Dec 16, 2017 21:23:45 GMT Kilgore said:

Dec 16, 2017 20:48:09 GMT Emperor said:

UT said it best in the Christmas movie countdown:

1. I'll have to give the bad news to Cable for the past 30 years because Die Hard is always in rotation during Christmas time. 

2. Once again, the fact that Die Hard is fucking awesome is somehow penalizing it. You can't watch Elf or The Santa Clause during the Summer because Elf and The Santa Claus sucks. You tolerate its existence for a couple weeks a year because that's all it's good for. Nobody would say, "The Beach Boys isn't really a good summer music band because I quite enjoy listening to Pet Sounds on cold rainy days too." The Beach Boys were the ultimate summer band, but they were so good they transcended just being that. 

1. Die Hard is in the rotation year round , not as some Christmas time only thing. 

2. I don't understand what you're getting at , in no way is Die Hard being awesome penalizing it. No one is saying ANYTHING about the quality of the movie besides you. Your opinions on movies like Elf and Santa Clause are not only wrong but completely irrelevant to the question of Die Hard being a Christmas movie. 

3. Die Hard didn't have to transcend from just being a Christmas movie because it was never a fucking Christmas movie to begin with. It was a summer movie released in the dead of summer - I don't know how that remotely equates to in transcending beyond a Christmas movie when it was never intended to be. That's like saying Hulk Hogan transcended being just a cruiserweight - because he was never a damn cruiserweight. 

4. You remove all the Christmas elements from Die Hard and it's still a badass action movie and equally successful. You do that to any actual Christmas movie and it ruins the movie , because they are actually Christmas movies. 

5. There are TONS of movie with Christmas elements just like Die Hard , they actually say the words Merry Christmas in Rocky IV and no one considers any of them to be Christmas movies because they aren't. Just like Die Hard never will be. 

You guys have too much time.

Dec 17, 2017 22:38:08 GMT @ck said:

You guys have too much time.

We're posting on a bootleg message board in place of an old message board dedicated to fake fighting.

We all have too much time on our hands.

Dec 17, 2017 22:20:26 GMT UT said:

Dec 16, 2017 21:23:45 GMT Kilgore said:

1. I'll have to give the bad news to Cable for the past 30 years because Die Hard is always in rotation during Christmas time. 

2. Once again, the fact that Die Hard is fucking awesome is somehow penalizing it. You can't watch Elf or The Santa Clause during the Summer because Elf and The Santa Claus sucks. You tolerate its existence for a couple weeks a year because that's all it's good for. Nobody would say, "The Beach Boys isn't really a good summer music band because I quite enjoy listening to Pet Sounds on cold rainy days too." The Beach Boys were the ultimate summer band, but they were so good they transcended just being that. 

1. Die Hard is in the rotation year round , not as some Christmas time only thing. 

2. I don't understand what you're getting at , in no way is Die Hard being awesome penalizing it. No one is saying ANYTHING about the quality of the movie besides you. Your opinions on movies like Elf and Santa Clause are not only wrong but completely irrelevant to the question of Die Hard being a Christmas movie. 

3. Die Hard didn't have to transcend from just being a Christmas movie because it was never a fucking Christmas movie to begin with. It was a summer movie released in the dead of summer - I don't know how that remotely equates to in transcending beyond a Christmas movie when it was never intended to be. That's like saying Hulk Hogan transcended being just a cruiserweight - because he was never a damn cruiserweight. 

4. You remove all the Christmas elements from Die Hard and it's still a badass action movie and equally successful. You do that to any actual Christmas movie and it ruins the movie , because they are actually Christmas movies. 

5. There are TONS of movie with Christmas elements just like Die Hard , they actually say the words Merry Christmas in Rocky IV and no one considers any of them to be Christmas movies because they aren't. Just like Die Hard never will be. 

1. Yes, I was merely making fun of your ridiculous "Not in my Christmas rotation" statement like that means anything. It's on many people's rotation, many channels rotations, and now entering it's fourth decade as such, the fact that people watch it in the Summer too, be damned. 

2. Most of your entire thesis is disqualifying Die Hard as a Christmas movie because it can, and is enjoyed during non-Christmas time too. That is your main point. Problem is, it isn't one. All those horror movies aimed at Halloween viewing, still watchable every other month of the year, and are. They work best around Halloween, but they aren't completely dependent of Halloween. This is Die Hard. Awesome in Summer. Even more awesome during Christmas. Only with Christmas are you adhering to some nonsensical rule where it should only work within a certain time period on the calendar. Nobody would ever say, "Friday the 13th, not really a true Friday the 13th movie because it came out May 8th, and I saw it on Tuesday the 24th of July in an air conditioned room. It should only work in Octobers every 11 years when a Friday the 13th occurs in that month." That would be insane. This is your penalization of the quality of Die Hard, mandatory Christmas viewing for MILLIONS, but because it's still enjoyed every other month of the year too, you don't think it counts for some reason. I'm sorry your preferred classics only work three weeks out of the year. 

3. Miracle on 34th Street, released in May. Not a Christmas movie. It would have to come out in December to be considered such (Or November like Home Alone, or October like a Nightmare Before Christmas, or another month since it doesn't really matter).

4. A movie 100% dependent on holiday setting is a bad story. Dickens' Christmas Carol is the greatest Christmas story ever because it only uses Christmas as backdrop to investigate universal regrets about life. If you took Christmas out of Christmas Carol, and it was non-Christmas ghosts making Scrooge evaluate his childhood birthdays, or family Thanksgivings instead (if that were a thing there), it would still be an amazing story because it would still be a man reflecting on his past finding out where he started to disregard his ideals. A Christmas Carol is also as much an allegory about capitalism as it is Christmas, which is why it's so great. You take Christmas out of the Santa Clause, yes it would suck, which is why The Santa Clause sucks. 

5. You inadvertantly just made the perfect case for Die Hard as a Christmas movie. Yes, there are a hundred movies with Christmas kind of/sort of in the background, and few of them ever have people making their case a Christmas movie? Why is Die Hard different then? Why do millions of people treat it as such? Why do so many defend it? Because it fucking is a Christmas movie. It's different, man. It's not Rocky IV. John McClane has lost his family. All John McClane wants for Christmas is his family back. A little like Kevin from Home Alone, actually. And like Kevin, John McClane has to get a little blood on his hands to get them back. 

Dec 18, 2017 0:20:55 GMT Kilgore said:

Dec 17, 2017 22:20:26 GMT UT said:

1. Die Hard is in the rotation year round , not as some Christmas time only thing. 

2. I don't understand what you're getting at , in no way is Die Hard being awesome penalizing it. No one is saying ANYTHING about the quality of the movie besides you. Your opinions on movies like Elf and Santa Clause are not only wrong but completely irrelevant to the question of Die Hard being a Christmas movie. 

3. Die Hard didn't have to transcend from just being a Christmas movie because it was never a fucking Christmas movie to begin with. It was a summer movie released in the dead of summer - I don't know how that remotely equates to in transcending beyond a Christmas movie when it was never intended to be. That's like saying Hulk Hogan transcended being just a cruiserweight - because he was never a damn cruiserweight. 

4. You remove all the Christmas elements from Die Hard and it's still a badass action movie and equally successful. You do that to any actual Christmas movie and it ruins the movie , because they are actually Christmas movies. 

5. There are TONS of movie with Christmas elements just like Die Hard , they actually say the words Merry Christmas in Rocky IV and no one considers any of them to be Christmas movies because they aren't. Just like Die Hard never will be. 

1. Yes, I was merely making fun of your ridiculous "Not in my Christmas rotation" statement like that means anything. It's on many people's rotation, many channels rotations, and now entering it's fourth decade as such, the fact that people watch it in the Summer too, be damned. 

2. Most of your entire thesis is disqualifying Die Hard as a Christmas movie because it can, and is enjoyed during non-Christmas time too. That is your main point. Problem is, it isn't one. All those horror movies aimed at Halloween viewing, still watchable every other month of the year, and are. They work best around Halloween, but they aren't completely dependent of Halloween. This is Die Hard. Awesome in Summer. Even more awesome during Christmas. Only with Christmas are you adhering to some nonsensical rule where it should only work within a certain time period on the calendar. Nobody would ever say, "Friday the 13th, not really a true Friday the 13th movie because it came out May 8th, and I saw it on Tuesday the 24th of July in an air conditioned room. It should only work in Octobers every 11 years when a Friday the 13th occurs in that month." That would be insane. This is your penalization of the quality of Die Hard, mandatory Christmas viewing for MILLIONS, but because it's still enjoyed every other month of the year too, you don't think it counts for some reason. I'm sorry your preferred classics only work three weeks out of the year. 

3. Miracle on 34th Street, released in May. Not a Christmas movie. It would have to come out in December to be considered such (Or November like Home Alone, or October like a Nightmare Before Christmas, or another month since it doesn't really matter).

4. A movie 100% dependent on holiday setting is a bad story. Dickens' Christmas Carol is the greatest Christmas story ever because it only uses Christmas as backdrop to investigate universal regrets about life. If you took Christmas out of Christmas Carol, and it was non-Christmas ghosts making Scrooge evaluate his childhood birthdays, or family Thanksgivings instead (if that were a thing there), it would still be an amazing story because it would still be a man reflecting on his past finding out where he started to disregard his ideals. A Christmas Carol is also as much an allegory about capitalism as it is Christmas, which is why it's so great. You take Christmas out of the Santa Clause, yes it would suck, which is why The Santa Clause sucks. 

5. You inadvertantly just made the perfect case for Die Hard as a Christmas movie. Yes, there are a hundred movies with Christmas kind of/sort of in the background, and few of them ever have people making their case a Christmas movie? Why is Die Hard different then? Why do millions of people treat it as such? Why do so many defend it? Because it fucking is a Christmas movie. It's different, man. It's not Rocky IV. John McClane has lost his family. All John McClane wants for Christmas is his family back. A little like Kevin from Home Alone, actually. And like Kevin, John McClane has to get a little blood on his hands to get them back. 

Kilgore laying down the Die Hard law is the only thing that makes me feel a little better after that devastating Steelers loss.

Dec 17, 2017 22:50:58 GMT KJ said:

Dec 17, 2017 22:38:08 GMT @ck said:

You guys have too much time.

We're posting on a bootleg message board in place of an old message board dedicated to fake fighting.

We all have too much time on our hands.

i just love that you called it a bootleg

We're a speakeasy forum.

Just to bolster Kilgore,'s already perfect argument, let's take another bone fide Christmas classic - It's a Wonderful Life. Released in January with the vast majority of the film taking place outside of December. If Die Hard isn't a Christmas film, neither is It's A Wonderful Life and in fact we're only left with boring Santa Movies.

Die Hard takes place on Christmas Eve.
Is about two main things that have to do with Christmas...Greed and Family.
John McClane is Santa
Christmas in Hollis is featured
There are Nine reindeer, if you include Rudolph. There are exactly Nine terrorists over 6 feet tall.
Pretty sure one of the terrorists is named Rudolph...don't look it up.
Argyle is the name of a sock, you hang stockings for Christmas.

Dec 18, 2017 1:21:42 GMT PB said:

Just to bolster Kilgore ,'s already perfect argument, let's take another bone fide Christmas classic - It's a Wonderful Life. Released in January with the vast majority of the film taking place outside of December. If Die Hard isn't a Christmas film, neither is It's A Wonderful Life and in fact we're only left with boring Santa Movies.

It was originally released just before Christmas in 46.

Considering how anxious retailers are to get their Christmas gear out, I'd say anything around late October to early January is going for that festive crowd. Miracle on 34th St. is an interesting case. Fox believed that nobody watched movies around the holidays, so they released it in May and downplayed all the Christmas promotional material and tried to sell it as a plain family movie.

That's definitely a tick against it, but there's so many other elements that make it a Christmas movie that you could say it's the exception that proves the rule.

Dec 18, 2017 2:02:41 GMT Big Pete said:

Dec 18, 2017 1:21:42 GMT PB said:

Just to bolster Kilgore ,'s already perfect argument, let's take another bone fide Christmas classic - It's a Wonderful Life. Released in January with the vast majority of the film taking place outside of December. If Die Hard isn't a Christmas film, neither is It's A Wonderful Life and in fact we're only left with boring Santa Movies.

It was originally released just before Christmas in 46.

Considering how anxious retailers are to get their Christmas gear out, I'd say anything around late October to early January is going for that festive crowd. Miracle on 34th St. is an interesting case. Fox believed that nobody watched movies around the holidays, so they released it in May and downplayed all the Christmas promotional material and tried to sell it as a plain family movie.

That's definitely a tick against it, but there's so many other elements that make it a Christmas movie that you could say it's the exception that proves the rule.

I don't think it's a tick at all. The people choose the classics, not the studios. 

What do people think about The Ref (1994)? Not exactly a classic, although I like it very much, but I think it's pretty clearly a Christmas movie with a March release date. 

I think a larger question is, should the release date a studio chooses have any bearing on how a seasonal movie is interpreted? Like Hannah and Her Sisters is clearly a Thanksgiving movie, but it just happened to have a February release date. Does that make it cease to be a Thanksgiving movie?