Yeah, I saw that vid a little while ago; it gave me a renewed sense of perspective on Naito's position in the NJPW main event picture. In my mind there is no one else I wanna see face Okada at WK12. I saw that other video that highlighted the Okada vs Tana' feud for dominance which painted a perfect picture of Kazuchika's rise to the Ace position. As it stands, this match is what years of meticulous booking have led us to, yet it isn't the end of the epic tale being woven here -that Kenny is still a big part of- by a longshot. It is a match that could be described as somewhat of a crossroads in their respective stories; both can lay claim to the best argument for winning. In Naito's case in particular, it will be the win that truly pushes him over the threshold of the main event stardom that he so clearly craves

I gotta wonder how they will do the Cody/Bullet Club split? On one hand you know the tension is building from when Cody wanted to throw in the towel on Omega vs Okada. On the other hand Cody is a big part of Bullet Club and it seems he’s a big part of Bullet Club’s plans going forward with the big arena show. How long can they stretch this out? I know people who have been watching NJPW for years are saying that the break up of the Bullet Club may be overdue but with the money and name recognition they’re getting isnit bad business? In this situation how can you balance good business with necessary story progression?

I think Kenny Omega (and probably the Bucks) will voluntarily leave Bullet Club. Kenny has grown beyond that stable, and his formation of The Elite substable is partial acknowledgement of that. Bullet Club can continue with Cody as the leader, perhaps when he's a bit more established in New Japan, and that'll be that.

The Naito video is great - I liked it the first time it popped up my YouTube feed, enjoyed it again when KingoftheNorth posted it and enjoyed watching it again. It doesn't change my perspective of the main event where little has changed since their last series of matches.

In the video he covers Naito's vendetta against the Intercontinental Championship, which seems like a stretch considering Naito treated the IWGP Championship with disdain. Notice how the video didn't bother to cover anything other than the championship win against Elgin and the WK match against Tanahashi? It's because the reign was such a waste of time that the matches against Lethal, Robinson and the rematches against Tanahashi & Elgin didn't benefit Naito.

He treated the IWGP Championship with disdain, sure, but that's nowhere close to how badly he treated the IC Championship. After Nakamura left, that title became Tanahashi's property, and I'm sure Naito took great joy in destroying it and provoking the ire of his rival. It's true that Naito was somewhat spinning his wheels as IC Champ, but it's not possible to be going upwards all the time. At least he helped elevate some young guys by working with them. I do think Naito dropping the belt back to Tanahashi was a step back. He should have lost it to someone else, if at all.

I first started liking Naito based on the weird stuff he was doing. I saw gifs of things like tossing the IWGP in the air and just being "lazy" in matches and thought he was just so cool. I thought his character was DGAF to the 100th power, so seeing him chuck the IC belt on the stairs was hilarious. Had no idea there was real story behind it. And him being mad at the Jericho match just makes things sweeter given that narrative. I really dunno if people would be as interested in the show without that match, so that probably plays into it.

Plus Okada is trash and a stinky wrestler and I hate his face. So there's that.

I just wrote about some older Naito matches in the review thread. His run in the 2015 G1 tournament where he debuted the Ingobernable gimmick was fantastic. He gave zero fucks, he was unpredictable, and it was awesome to watch. I guess Naito couldn't stay that way forever without it getting stale, but he became less interesting when he started giving fucks. He's still cool though.

Dec 28, 2017 16:58:08 GMT Emperor said:

He treated the IWGP Championship with disdain, sure, but that's nowhere close to how badly he treated the IC Championship. After Nakamura left, that title became Tanahashi's property, and I'm sure Naito took great joy in destroying it and provoking the ire of his rival. It's true that Naito was somewhat spinning his wheels as IC Champ, but it's not possible to be going upwards all the time. At least he helped elevate some young guys by working with them. I do think Naito dropping the belt back to Tanahashi was a step back. He should have lost it to someone else, if at all.

It's to be expected given he held the Intercontinental Championship 259 days. Comparatively, he only held the IWGP World Championship for 70 days, so naturally he's going to have more opportunities to degrade the championship. It doesn't change the fact it started with the IWGP Championship, so it wasn't like he reserved those feelings for one belt per say, it was for the entire establishment. He was no longer a New Japan wrestler, he only represented one brand in Professional Wrestling - Los Ingobernables.

Who did he help elevate? Robinson? What's he up to these days? What are any of his former opponents up to these days? Even Tanahashi, the heart and soul of NJPW is finding himself against some milquetoast Kiwi performer who spent the better part of the year putting over the Matt Tavens of the world. See, I wouldn't have an issue if Gedo was just stalling for time, building Naito and Okada up for this big moment, but they blew their load.

I was going to keep my mouth shut, catch up on some of the lead-up shows and get into the holiday spirit but you've woken up the inner Eboneser Scrooge in me. I don't want to drag this thread down anymore or ward off any potential newcomers like @shin or 🤯 if they decide to watch this show, so I'll leave it at this. Okada/Naito is a perfectly acceptable main-event, that should be a lot bigger than what it is. The reason why it hasn't lived up to it's potential is due to some uncharacteristic hot-shotting from Gedo and some lazy booking in the aftermath. The match in a way encapsulates a bigger issue I have with NJPW where the IC division isn't strong. Maybe it can be considered a transitional period as NJPW launches a bigger international launch and deals with the losses of Katsuyori Shibata and Tomoaki Honma.

So I'll leave it at that. NJPW is in great shape right now, I just hope it continues and ignore these issues that could be big problems down the line.

I'd kinda like to drop this too, but some of your arguments are so unfair that they are impossible to ignore. I really don't understand what you expect from NJPW booking. Your expectations appear to be beyond what reality can provide. What sensible ways are there to book Naito in 2017 besides what happened? You're clearly unsatisfied with him winning the IC belt, defending against midcarders, keeping him away from his two main rivals in Okada and Omega, but still having a long-term feud with his next biggest rival in Tanahashi. What else could he do? If he faces Okada or Omega earlier in the year, then you'd complain about "uncharacteristic hot-shotting". Perhaps the plan was for Naito to feud with Shibata in the summer, but with that option unavailable, what they did instead was pretty good.

As for not putting Robinson over, again, your expectations are unreasonable. When I said Naito put Robinson over, I didn't mean that suddenly Juice Robinson is a main eventer and should be having a high profile match at the Tokyo Dome. I meant that Robinson feuding with Naito, and being as competitive with him as he was, raises his stock slightly in the eyes of the fans and the bookers. It's a step towards having a group of credible upper midcard wrestlers to form an IC division, which we acknowledge the company lacks. Building for the future. Then you imply that Naito de-elevated Tanahashi because he's wrestling Jay White, albeit in the third highest match on the card for the second most prestigious belt. I don't know what to say to that.

I expect the NJPW booking to reflect the hype it's received, when clearly it's fallen short of the mark. If the plan was to always go back to Naito/Okada, and sell it on the basis of 'then and now', then the way they went about it wasn't well thought out. Blowing the series of matches during the initial stages of Naito's new gimmick and treating Naito's first reign like it was nothing were mistakes and both of them have hurt the appeal of the match. Finally both Naito and Okada should take responsibility for having some very lackluster matches together. It's amazing that after all this time, their 2012 match is still the best match they've had together.

Now little has changed, other than Naito learning that the key to victory is to spam his moves. Wins over Elgin, Lethal and Robinson didn't prove anything - he was capable of beating all of them prior to their matches. The only match that benefited him was Tanahashi at WrestleKingdom and they cheapened that by having him drop the Intercontinental Championship to him later. Whether he elevated the opponents in the process does little for Naito/Okada, but really did the Lethal, Elgin or Robinson matches make the Intercontinental Championship division more appealing? Elgin is person non grata in NJPW, Lethal is a nobody in NJPW and Robinson is a joke. Of all the talent on the roster, they pick Juice Robinson? This must be what Jim Cornette felt like in TNA circa 2009. "Why the fuck are we pushing Juice Robinson?" Indeed. Can't you see that's the issue?

So for all of Naito's hard-work of building and elevating all this talent, the big Intercontinental Championship match is a broken down husk of a man Tanahashi taking on Matt Taven's bitch.

Indeed, Naito/Okada would have been more profound if they hadn't had that mini-feud in 2016, or if it wasn't booked so poorly. Gedo likes his shock upsets from time to time, but the way Naito won and lost the title did him no favours. Still, since then Naito has proven that he can beat top guys without having his cronies interfere, so that's a difference going into Wrestle Kingdom.

You act like Juice Robinson is the world's worst wrestler. He's not. He's a guy who came to Japan from NXT as a nobody, developed a character and got over in a surprisingly short amount of time. He's not a great wrestler yet, but the potential is there. He's young, he's keen, and he looks good. Why wouldn't you give him a mini-push here and there?

"Broken down husk of a man Tanahashi". If I didn't know any better, I'd think I was talking to a diehard NJPW hater. Is John Cena also a broken down husk because he's a couple of years past his prime? Tanahashi is still one of the company's top guys and best workers, adopting the early 90s Jumbo Tsuruta role of trying to hold onto his spot despite all these young guys challenging him and in some cases surpassing him.

Stiffing the fuck out of each other is just stupid. Yeah, it can be fun, but it's just so fucking stupid to beat each other for real in a fake match.

Still, since then Naito has proven that he can beat top guys without having his cronies interfere, so that's a difference going into Wrestle Kingdom.

He already proved this in the 2015 G-1.

You act like Juice Robinson is the world's worst wrestler.

The issue with Juice is that there were better guys on the roster more deserving of his push. The other issue is that they had him fail upwards which created an unnecessary obstacle. Review the tape Emp, he lost to Cody at WK, lost to Goto at New Beginning, lost to Shibata at New Japan cup and is somehow deemed worthy of a shot at Naito? It didn't do anybody any favours.

"Broken down husk of a man Tanahashi". If I didn't know any better, I'd think I was talking to a diehard NJPW hater.

Careful, those are fighting words! All I'm saying is that Tanahashi needs a break, he's in awful shape right now and needs to respect his body more.

Dec 30, 2017 3:12:52 GMT Big Pete said:

The issue with Juice is that there were better guys on the roster more deserving of his push. The other issue is that they had him fail upwards which created an unnecessary obstacle. Review the tape Emp, he lost to Cody at WK, lost to Goto at New Beginning, lost to Shibata at New Japan cup and is somehow deemed worthy of a shot at Naito? It didn't do anybody any favours.

Fair point about the failing upwards. But who is more deserving of Juice's push? Elgin and Naito feuded recently. Can't think of any other young talents that would fit the bill. I guess you have the likes of Goto, Ishii, and Suzuki. They've been stuck in midcard limbo forever, but looking back Goto and Ishii last faced Naito in mid-2016, so those matchups would have been reasonably fresh. In fact, Naito and Ishii would have been a nice summer feud. Maybe you even have Naito drop the belt to Ishii (perhaps better than losing it back to Tanahashi), and elevate Ishii to the next level, perhaps give Naito the win back in the US title tournament and/or G1 as happened in reality.

Well, if it was up to me I would have preferred to have seen the likes of Ibushi, Ricochet, Ospreay, KUSHIDA and even Taguchi ahead of Robinson. Not necessarily in an IC program with Naito, but given more prominent roles in the company. I also would have liked to have seen NJPW raid AJPW, NOAH, Dragon Gate, BJW etc. and bring in more established guys who are ready to make an impact right out of the gate. I suppose that was the idea behind Suzuki-gun, but then everyone remembered that they had worn out their welcome last time.

As far as Naito's run goes, I believe it should have been more focused and should have ended better. I would have preferred somebody like Ibushi winning the IC championship instead of Tanahashi and would have preferred just about anyone face him instead of Robinson and Lethal. There's a lot of different ways they could have gone about it, but the key needed to demonstrate how much he's evolved since those 2016 matches.

KUSHIDA is a good shout. Didn't even think of the junior guys. He should have advanced to heavyweight last year after Takahashi defeated him at Wrestle Kingdom. Just like Kenny Omega did the previous year. No idea why they kept KUSHIDA in the junior division when Takahashi was right there to take over as the Ace. He's a great worker and could have had great matches with Naito etc.

where can i watch live and how much will it cost?
columbus, ohio, USA

Dec 30, 2017 17:31:12 GMT Mistress said:

where can i watch live and how much will it cost?
columbus, ohio, USA

NJPWworld.

¥9.99, or whatever that is in $$$

I go back to work on the 4th so will have to miss the live showing.

On a different note, I wonder if they will get 40k in the building on the night. Here's hoping.

It airs from 8am onwards UK time, which would be early in the morning in the US. So be prepared to miss sleep if you want to watch it live.

If someone can tell me what time this is on in Australian AEDT, i'll definitely check this out. Very interested to see the Jericho match.
Signed up for NJPW World before, but most of their events seemed to air live Sunday night here, when i'm always working.
(As opposed to WWE which always airs in the day here, and i work nights)

Also, hoping there is an option on the network to switch to English commentary, haven't used it in a few years.

It starts 9pm AEDT. It will be at least 4 hours long, so the main events will be around midnight. As I'm sure you're aware, this show will be on a Thursday, so hopefully it will not conflict with your work. There will be English commentary. On NJPW World they usually present two streams. One with Japanese commentary and one with English. Should be fairly clear.

I'm gonna watch this bad boy the next day at my leisure. Screw live at some weird hours. Of course I'm only interested in the top matches, so that helps.

Chris Jericho briefly appeared on Killing The Town to talk about his match with Kenny Omega.

Going to attempt to sign up for NJPW World in a few minutes. Is it hard to cancel like it was a few years ago?

Ness has got the right idea.

I was considering watching a crappy stream of it, but I have no doubt it will hinder my enjoyment, so I want to do everything I can to make this as enjoyable as possible.

I'll be on a media black-out until I've seen the show.

Jan 1, 2018 16:02:44 GMT Emperor said:

It starts 9pm AEDT. It will be at least 4 hours long, so the main events will be around midnight. As I'm sure you're aware, this show will be on a Thursday, so hopefully it will not conflict with your work. There will be English commentary. On NJPW World they usually present two streams. One with Japanese commentary and one with English. Should be fairly clear.

Rumble starts at 6pm, main show at 7PM. Why did you lie to me? I thought you wanted others to watch it live. You’re tearing me apart Emperor!!!

Sign up today, hopefully no issues with it as I’m having people over to watch it.

Jan 1, 2018 23:50:10 GMT Raven said:

Going to attempt to sign up for NJPW World in a few minutes. Is it hard to cancel like it was a few years ago?

I didn't know it was supposed to be hard to cancel. No idea, to be honest. Just go for it, I say.

Jan 3, 2018 4:47:52 GMT System said:

Rumble starts at 6pm, main show at 7PM. Why did you lie to me? I thought you wanted others to watch it live. You’re tearing me apart Emperor!!!

Looks like I completely failed at time zone conversion. I blame Australia. You guys are like over 12 hours ahead of us and I can't count beyond 12. Or something.

I am so ready for this f'n event.

Team Naito all the way.

Last time he wasn't ready...

His time is now, though.

Time for a new Ace.

Let Kenny and Chris play WWE, while Tana' plays High Fly Flow the new guy back down the card, over their respective irrelevant championships; Naito has destiny whispering in his ear telling him to finally be that guy on the night of the year it matters most. No EVIL, no Sanada, no Bushi, just one ungovernable SOB with a gameplan to put an end to this chapter of Okada's story. There's a lot of tales being told in NJPW, but it's time to let the world know that the one time Stardust Genius' tale is the one that matters most right now.

Make it happen, Tetsuya...

Make it happen.

I'm out of the loop, like usual these days, but given the violent beatdown angle that was done, do we expect Jericho/Omega to be a nasty, gritty brawl as it should be? Or will it be Jericho trying to keep up with the youngsters and failing, like with AJ in 2016?