Legend
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Post by 🤯 on Mar 21, 2022 13:51:00 GMT
Recently realizing Rock/Kurt had really underrated chemistry got me thinking about who else had underrated chemistry and who also had surprisingly bad chemistry. Especially when you start to think about the math.
Like Rock/Kurt, Rock/HHH, Rock/Austin, Rock/Foley, Rock/Benoit, Rock/Jericho... All great. But Rock/Taker was consistently off.
But Taker/HHH, Taker/Foley, Taker/Kurt, and maybe Taker/Austin (?) was great... So what makes him & Rock not click? Honestly, thinking about it, I'm not sure if Taker/Austin was always just snakebit by snafus and injuries, or if they actually just didn't have good chemistry.
Then there's the fun game of extrapolating...
Like based on Kurt's chemistry with HBK, Austin, and Taker... And HBK's chemistry with Austin, Taker, and Bret... would Kurt likely have automatically had god level chemistry with Bret?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2022 13:57:57 GMT
One of the more obvious anti-chemistry was HHH/RKO. Maybe they were too similar in slow plodding. And maybe that's the key and why Austin/Taker didn't work because neither guy was ever really willing to be vulnerable for that long stretch of time so they clashed. Then of course there's the head bonk when they finally were ready to have a classic. I do feel that Taker table bump is MASSIVELY undersold and overlooked even from a highlight reel perspective. Feels like it gets almost no love.
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Post by Big Pete on Mar 21, 2022 14:23:21 GMT
In ring chemistry is knowing where to be at what time and how to change it up for the crowd.
The best in-ring chemistry for mine was Psychosis and Rey Mysterio. They worked together in so many different promotions and each match was a really interesting look into psychology. In Mexico it's a lot more mat-based, ECW there's a lot more death defying crowd dives, WCW it was more about showcasing the highspots and in Japan it's that King of the Mountain Hall style where things start off slowly but gradually it picks up until it's just non-stop move after move and the crowd is about to jump out of their seats.
The only match I can't recall them clicking was at ECW ONS. I'd be kind of interested to see what happened, but from memory it was all downhill after Psichosis demasked.
Ric Flair-Ricky Steamboat the same as well, Bret-Owen WMX had great chemistry. That spot where Bret just points at Owen is one of my all-time favourites.
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Post by Ed on Mar 21, 2022 18:02:24 GMT
Chris Jericho & The Undertaker never clicked. It's a shame. I was sort of a step below a dream match in my eyes.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2022 18:04:09 GMT
Chris Jericho & The Undertaker never clicked. It's a shame. I was sort of a step below a dream match in my eyes. I really can only think of 1 time of them even interacting. One match randomly on a Smackdown during Jericho's 09era heel run. Did they have any other matches? IMO you need at least a proper feud to qualify as chemistry. One match I won't judge.
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God
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Post by Ed on Mar 21, 2022 18:06:56 GMT
Chris Jericho & The Undertaker never clicked. It's a shame. I was sort of a step below a dream match in my eyes. I really can only think of 1 time of them even interacting. One match randomly on a Smackdown during Jericho's 09era heel run. Did they have any other matches? IMO you need at least a proper feud to qualify as chemistry. One match I won't judge. 2 at least? I'm not sure.
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Post by Kilgore on Mar 21, 2022 23:00:05 GMT
Disagree that Taker and Austin had good chemistry, most of their matches were bad. Taker lacked chemistry with many more than he had chemistry with, huge part of the reason why no all time great has a lower batting average than Taker.
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God
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Post by Ed on Mar 21, 2022 23:32:16 GMT
Disagree that Taker and Austin had good chemistry, most of their matches were bad. Taker lacked chemistry with many more than he had chemistry with, a huge part of the reason why no all-time great has a lower batting average than Taker. I love the SummerSlam 1999 match.
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Legend
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Post by 🤯 on Mar 22, 2022 0:18:54 GMT
Disagree that Taker and Austin had good chemistry, most of their matches were bad. Taker lacked chemistry with many more than he had chemistry with, a huge part of the reason why no all-time great has a lower batting average than Taker. I love the SummerSlam 1999 match. Taker/Show vs. X-Pac/Kane? That was actually a low key fun match as far as non-gimmick Attitude Era tags go.
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Post by Shootist on Mar 22, 2022 0:42:18 GMT
Underrated good chemistry: Bret/Diesel Bret/Taker Taker/Batista Benoit/Booker T Flair/Waltman Flair/Ronnie Garvin Flair/Ricky Morton Goldberg/DDP Underwhelming/bad chemistry: Angle/Eddie- I just watched the Summerslam '04 match and expected much more. What are others opinions on this match? Anything better that I'm forgetting about? Steamboat/Vader- Two of my all time top 10 faves and two of the best workers of their weight classes never could get it right. Sting/Luger- Better together than apart. Austin/Taker- I'm with Kilgore, on this one.
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Post by Baker on Mar 22, 2022 2:40:27 GMT
Angle/Eddie- I just watched the Summerslam '04 match and expected much more. What are others opinions on this match? Anything better that I'm forgetting about? I really liked their Wrestlemania 20 match. ========= Flair/Steamboat is the first thing that comes to mind when I think of great in ring chemistry. Next 10 that come to mind... Flair/Funk Bret/Austin HHH/Foley Michaels/Jericho Angle/Benoit Angle/Rey Bret/Owen Bret/Davey Sting/Vader Lawler/Dundee As for bad chemistry, Austin/Jericho just never clicked. They once discussed their weird lack of chemistry when one appeared on the other's podcast. I lean towards bad chemistry with Austin/Taker. I too enjoyed their Summerslam 98 match but all the rest of their bouts were stinkers. For some reason they loved working together though. Same deal with Taker/Kane just swap Summerslam 98 out for WM 14.
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Post by SummerSlam 1998 on Mar 22, 2022 10:11:13 GMT
Disagree that Taker and Austin had good chemistry, most of their matches were bad. Taker lacked chemistry with many more than he had chemistry with, a huge part of the reason why no all-time great has a lower batting average than Taker. I love the SummerSlam 1999 match. SummerSlam 1998, friend.
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Post by kingoftheworld on Mar 24, 2022 1:56:03 GMT
Cena/Orton was very underwhelming most of the time it happened.
One that I think is dead weird is HHH/Taker. They were decent until they feuded in 2002 which had that godawful match the KOTR 2002 and then it was awesome for their WM story.
I never thought much of Jericho/Regal either which is also weird considering how many people they had in common that could all have good matches with each other.
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Legend
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Post by 🤯 on Mar 24, 2022 13:05:17 GMT
Cena/Orton was very underwhelming most of the time it happened. This has me wondering and thinking about Kurt Angle's philosophy that two old guys who've lost a step can't have a great match together. But put them in there against a younger guy who can go, and they can still churn out classics. Makes we wonder if Cena & Orton (and even Batista too) were always just older guys who've lost a step... Relying on the likes of Kurt, Brock, Benoit, Eddie, Taker, HHH, HBK, Umaga, AJ, DB, Rollins, etc. etc. etc. to have good matches and develop this rep of not actually being bad. Because whenever they were in there against each other... Woof.
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Post by Big Pete on Mar 24, 2022 13:31:44 GMT
Although they completely annihilated one another and turned the summer of 2008 into a bigger mess than what it was, I maintain that Cena/Batista SS 08 is one of the GOAT SummerSlam matches. If I'm wrong, then I'll let any of you give me a dead arm, but I'm confident it was a damn good match and the best match of the show if you didn't like the hokey Taker-Edge HIAC match.
I also believe the 2008 NWO match with Cena-Orton was low key really good as well before the DQ finish. However I only saw it when it happened but that started the transition from being a 'Cena Sucks!!' guy to 'Let's Go Cena!'.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2022 14:05:39 GMT
That first Cena/Dave match was magic. By time they returned to feud again they put way too much fluff on it and never recreated what they did there.
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Post by Baker on Mar 25, 2022 20:42:18 GMT
That first Cena/Dave match was magic. Twas a good 'un. Never saw any of their other matches though. In hindsight it's weird they didn't interact more since you could make a strong argument for them being the top two guys a la Hogan & Savage/Austin & Rock/Bret & Michaels of that 05-10 period.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2022 1:17:51 GMT
The later build with Hollywood Dave was very watchable, I just don't remember caring for their matches where the SS one was the opposite. I thought it was gonna be lamesauce and the match was great.
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