The crux of this thought exercise/rebooking adventure is what if the WWF/E (or whatever promotion you'd like to choose) had a hard and fast rule that you could only be world champion once. Logic behind the rule being it makes title reigns more prestigious, important, rare, dangerous, etc. and theoretically better helps to elevate champions and talent subsequently programmed against former champions.

Starting as always with the WWF/E, I'm thinking a reworked title history looks like...

1.) Buddy Rogers: April 1963 - May 1963

2.) Bruno Sammartino: May 1963 - April 1977
*Lo siento, Pedro.

3.) "Superstar" Billy Graham: April 1977 - February 1978

4.) Bob Backlund: February 1978 - March 1984

5.) Hulk Hogan: March 1984 - April 1990
* Backlund & Hogan pull off a double turn (face Backlund becoming heel, heel Hogan officially turning face) during the title switch at WrestleMania 0 with former champion Bruno Sammartino officiating the match. The moment echoes the whole deal from WM13 involving Bret Hart, Steve Austin, and Ken Shamrock.
* Ted DiBiase bribes his way into a world title shot at WrestleMania IV with André the Giant in his corner

6.) The Ultimate Warrior: April 1990 - October 1991
* The title is declared vacant after Warrior submits his letter of resignation, citing pay disputes and other issues with his contract in the wake of SummerSlam '91.

7.) "Macho Man" Randy Savage: November 1991 - April 1993
* The recently reinstated Macho Man defeats newcomer "Nature Boy" Ric Flair (self-purported Real World's Champion) at Survivor Series.
* Savage retains against Jake Roberts at the 1992 Royal Rumble, then against 1992 Royal Rumble winner Flair in a Survivor Series rematch at WrestleMania VIII... where Ultimate Warrior makes his surprise return.
* Claiming he never lost the belt and Savage is therefore an illegitimate champion, Warrior gets a shot (and loses) at SummerSlam 1992.
* Savage retains against newcomer Razor Ramon via DQ at Survivor Series 1992, and then via pinfall in a "No DQ" Havana Street Fight at Royal Rumble 1993.

8.) Bret "Hitman" Hart: April 1993 - March 1996
* 1993 Royal Rumble winner Bret retains against Jerry Lawler at the first-ever King of the Ring PPV after first going through The King's court jester, Doink.
* Bret retains against Mr. Perfect at SummerSlam 1993 in a SummerSlam 1991 rematch, which just so happens to be Perfect's last match.
* Bret captains his brothers to victory (despite Owen's elimination) at Survivor Series 1993 against insert opponents. To mend the relationship with Owen, Bret partners with him to win the tag belts from the Steiner Brothers at Royal Rumble 1994. Owen bests Bret in a non-title tag champ vs. tag champ/brother vs. brother opener at WrestleMania X before Bret ends the night with a successful world title defense against 1994 Royal Rumble winner Lex Luger.
* Bret wrestles Intercontinental Champion Diesel to a double-disqualification no-contest at the 1994 King of the Ring after Jim Neidhart & Shawn Michaels interfere. Meanwhile, Owen wins the 1994 crown to set up a WrestleMania rematch against Bret. Bret retains against Owen in a cage at SummerSlam 1994.
* The returning MISTER Bob Backlund finds a loophole in the rulebook that allows a former champion to challenge again if 10 years have passed since they last held the belt. Bret retains against Backlund at Survivor Series 1994, and then again in an "I Quit" Submit or Surrender Match rematch at the 1995 Royal Rumble.
* Bret retains against 1995 Royal Rumble winner Davey Boy Smith in a SummerSlam 1992 rematch (but with the world title on the line instead of the IC belt) at WrestleMania XI.
* The IYH & rest of the "Big 5" defenses of 1995 look like: Owen at IYH#1 in a closely contested, multi-fall Iron Man; Lawler in a 1993 KOTR rematch at KOTR '95; Million Dollar Champion Lex Luger in a WMX rematch at IYH#2; Bulldog in a rubber match at SummerSlam; Sid via DQ at IYH#3; Sid via submission at IYH#4; Diesel at Survivor Series; Owen in an "I Quit" Submit or Surrender Match at IYH#5; Undertaker via Dieselference DQ at Royal Rumble '96; and Diesel in a cage at IYH#6 thanks to Takerference.

9.) Shawn Michaels: April 1996 - February 1997
* Same run as real life until November' 96. Shawn retains against Goldust on PPV at the October IYH, against Sid via DQ at Survivor Series, takes December off, against Sid in a "No DQ" Texas Death Match at Royal Rumble '97, then loses his smile and forfeits the belt due to a knee injury.

10.) "Psycho" Sid Vicious: February 1997 - March 1997
* Sid defeats Vader for the vacant title before dropping it to 1997 Royal Rumble winner and company man Undertaker.

11.) Undertaker: March 1997 - October 1997
* Shawn exercises the Ultimate Warrior clause and returns for the title he was never technically beaten for. Match at the September IYH ends in a schmoz, setting up the first-ever HIAC at the October IYH for the title. A debuting Kane screws Taker out of the title.

12.) Shawn Michaels: October 1997 - March 1998
* Citing similar language as Shawn did, Bret argues he was screwed out of the title in the Iron Man at WrestleMania XII. Gets himself a rematch, and gets SCREWED at Survivor Series in Montreal. Heads to WCW.

13.) "Stone Cold" Steve Austin: March 1998 -

/////

TO BE CONTINUED... nap time is over!

Why is Shawn Michaels the one that beats Bret if he already won it earlier?

Apr 13, 2022 19:11:19 GMT RT said:

Why is Shawn Michaels the one that beats Bret if he already won it earlier?

In Montreal?

Bret is prompted by Shawn invoking a loophole. Bret never signed a contract for an impromptu sudden death overtime period for their iron man at WrestleMania XII. So the end of his reign was as much on a technicality as forfeiting due to injury.

Although this is making me wonder/realize I should probably include some rule about rematch clauses... Maybe another reign should be allowable so long as you're winning it back from who you lost it to? Assuming no funny loophole business, of course.

Apr 13, 2022 19:29:36 GMT 🤯 said:

Although this is making me wonder/realize I should probably include some rule about rematch clauses... Maybe another reign should be allowable so long as you're winning it back from who you lost it to? Assuming no funny loophole business, of course.

Oh I misread the post. I thought Shawn and Bret were fighting over a vacated title. I didn't realize Shawn beat The Undertaker because of a loophole and Bret invoked a similar loophole.

Kind of defeats the purpose but also you kind of need these outs once in a while with something like this. Like AEW and their power rankings.

"Why is the #2 guy fighting for the title when #1 hasn't had a shot yet?"
"Because reasons. Shut the fuck up."

Yeah I'm with RT on this one. 🤯 you broke your own rule in the very first post! Started on gummies early today? Also, 14 years is a long, long time...

I played around with this earlier. Got up to Edge in 06-07 before hitting the wall.

My go at the (W)WWF(E)

Buddy Rogers (April 1963-May 1963)

Doing things as it is for a while, The Nature Boy as a place holder to put Bruno over.

Bruno Sammartino (May 1963-November 1973)

Italian excellence, as Bruno is about to basically kill Buddy in the ring and have the longest reign ever.

Ivan Koloff (November 1973-December 1973)

Was going to get cute and have someone else dethrone Bruno, but it's easiest just to keep it Ivan, only a couple years later. Will be doing the WWWF thing for a while, having the heels have very short reigns to get it to the next babyface, as that's how it went back then.

Dominic DeNucci (December 1973-January 1975)

Is this a stretch? Maybe. No idea. DeNucci was extremely over as Bruno's right hand man in those days, so figure you could just do avenging my buddy and put the belt on Da Nootch for a while.

Dory Funk Jr. (January 1975-January 1975)

You can do Stasiak, even thought about going with the Big Cat, both would be more realistic, but let's have some fucking fun. If heels are doing short runs in those days, let's maximize name value, get more legends in the lineage.

Pedro Morales (January 1975-June 1977)

Window of time where Pedro was not in the WWWF, he was there before and after, but I think we can bring him back early for a Title Run. Kind of wanted to avoid this, but the babyfaces are pretty weak at this time. We're looking at Chief Jay Strongbow, and I've forgotten who else already, and I was reading about this 10 minutes ago, that's how weak. Pedro it is. I'm doing 2+ year runs for the aces that are clearly aces, but not generational ones, just a nice solid run, nothing special.

Terry Funk (June 1977-January 1978)

Fuck yeah. Fresh off losing his NWA title, we're bringing Terry tha God into the WWWF for a quick title run (although our longest heel run so far!).

Bob Backlund (January 1978-February 1981)

Funk vs. Backlund. Come on! You know this is it. I'm liking January as the month where cool shit happens, ala Hulkamania years later. New Year, new shit in the WWWF. Backlund gets his ace run. But we will be cutting it way shorter.

Superstar Billy Graham (February 1981-December 1982)

Listen, back to reality, a lot of old heads say The Superstar should have never dropped the strap to Backlund. Superstar a HUGE draw, Backlund was a guy forcefed by Vince Sr., resulting in Backlund being the Cena of his time, the ace by default, but a lot of fans not buying it. They would feud again in '81 or '82 and there was a proto-Raw after Mania vibe where fans were dying for for The Superstar to win. He didn't. Until now. Justice for Superstar Billy Graham. Instead of dropping the strap to to an undeserving Howdy Doody, he dethrones him.

Superfly Jimmy Snuka (December 1982-December 1983)

The beauty of Graham vs. Snuka is you could swap them either way as heels or faces as they both were heels that got so over they had to be switched. Feel it's best to keep Superstar heel, Snuka has his babyface transformation as it really happened, and he dethrones The Superstar to go the next level as a babyface. He faces Muraco as World Champion in the famous Garden Cage match, gotta keep that mostly the same, except the Cage Dive doesn't happen after Snuka loses, but wins, or he wins because of the Cage Dive. We just gotta keep the Cage Dive, and we can't have him losing to Murraco.

Iron Sheik (December 1983-January 1984)

Toyed with Snuka losing to Piper, Piper losing to Hogan, but don't want to fuck with destiny, brother. Sheik goes over Snuka the MSG event after the Cage Dive. Snuka will never be more over than showing up the next event after that, giving Sheik even more heat when he wins. They could even say the dive, one month later, weakened Snuka. But we just need Sheik as champion.

Hulk Hogan (January 1984-April 1992)

You can't stop Hulkamania, you don't want to mess with it in anyway having it happen later, or against someone else, it's gotta be how it was. Hogan has the longest reign since Bruno, longer than Backlund, as it should be. As long as we're rebooking, he defends against Piper (WM1), Orndorff (WM2), Andre (WM3), Harley Race (WM4), Savage (WM5), Warrior (WM6), Sid (WM7). Sid comes in a year earlier, easy enough fix for WM7 (Since I'm not a big Earthquake guy). Is an 8 year run too long for Hogan? Yes. 1990 is the safer pick for him to drop it, but business is going down anyway, no harm keeping it on Hogan a little too long. Warrior is too flaky, setting up either having him keep it too long (absolutely not), or going a little hot potato with the belt between 1990 and 1992 (less bad, but also no). Plus this ways sets up the best opponent for Hogan to finally lose.

Ric Flair (April 1992-August 1992)

Ric Flair debuts in the WWF exactly the same, late 1991, claiming to be the real world champion. Ric Flair participates in the 1992 Royal Rumble, the first #1 contender for WM Royal Rumble, and we're not messing with this match much. It's still Ric Flair going through his personal hell. The finish is a little different, no Hogan, so Macho is in the final rival for Flair spot. You can even do a similar finish with Jake in the Sid role, eliminating Macho, Macho pulls Jake out, Flair wins. Macho vs. Jake at WM8, Flair defeats Hogan at WM8. Can't picture the finish, but this is the best scenario for Hogan to finally lose it to someone worthy.

Macho Man Randy Savage (August 1992-March 1994)

Macho defeats Flair at SummerSlam, in the same build, same match as what really happened at WM8. Macho defends against Luger at WM9, and has a solid, late career title run. Storyline is he finally put it all together, has learned to harness the madness to its most productive state on the backend of his career. Until ...

Bret "The Hitman" Hart (March 1994-April 1996)

Bret's singles run is a little better paced. Really emerges as a star in his IC title defense against Piper at WM8. When he loses the strap to Davey Boy at SummerSlam '92, stars a feud with Flair, who has just lost the world title, culminating in a loser leaves town match at Royal Rumble 1993. This is fantasy, after all, and Bret defeats Hogan at WM9 in a co-main event of Savage vs. Luger for the title. Hitman is clearly the future ace of the company at this point. He and Savage do some main event tagging as two babyface aces do, until World Champion Savage turns on Bret in jealousy. He refuses to face Bret (is scared). But Bret's Royal Rumble 1994 win makes it mandatory for a showdown at Wreslemania X. Bret goes over Savage in a classic. It is the Bret Hart era.

Shawn Michaels (April 1996-April 1998)

Shawn's rise is pretty much exactly how it went. Babyface showdown with Bret at WM12, we'll keep it an Iron Man, it's better remembered by normies than we know it as, and this is where the rocky Shawn Michaels Era begins (nWo renders it a financial disaster by the summer, and Shawn turns heel in 1997 because the fans turn against him).

"Stone Cold" Steve Austin (April 1998-April 2001)

Austin run is pretty much identical, except no broken neck against Owen at SummerSlam '97. He's the biggest star since Hogan, wins back the battle of the Monday Night Wars, has the longest title reign since Hogan.

The Rock (April 2001-April 2003)

Rock wins at WM17. Can do a lot of fun finishes. Doesn't matter. Rock gets the strap here. Can be a face, heel, go back and forth, can do whatever he wants during his reign.

Triple H (April 2003-April 2005)

Cosplaying Ric Flair Era Triple H gets his Title Run.

Kurt Angle (April 2005-April 2006)

Angle feels the best to dethrone Triple H, deserves a run, let's do it. You can skip Angle and go straight to the next one if you want to make Triple H's reign of doom even doomier, which would be a very funny thing to do.

The Undertaker (April 2006-August 2010)

Doing a later Undertaker first title run than anyone would imagine. It just feels like to me, this was where Undertaker was most The Man. It's when the Wrestlemania streak matches were bigger than any title matches. It's when his matches were at their highest quality. Feels like the best time for an Undertaker run.

John Cena (August 2010-July 2011)

Don't have to kill Undertaker's title reign, and the Wrestlemania streak at the same time, so have Cena finally get his run at SummerSlam 2010. It will seem more earned, but he will still suck, and most people will hate that he beats Undertaker. It's not my fault Cena sucks so bad, I don't know what to tell you.

CM Punk (July 2011-August 2013)

Like Hulkamania, can't mess with the Summer of Punk, although on a much lesser scale, obviously. Beats Cena at Money in the Bank. Is booked better after that. Way too long a reign. But that's also the point. He slowly goes heel as he wears thin, making his eventual loss all the more sweeter.

Daniel Bryan (August 2013-April 2015)

Yes Movement is the same, instead of beating Cena, he beats Punk. He has a strong reign after that, doesn't get sabotaged, this is a nice world we're in right now.

Brock Lesnar (April 2015-)

Unstoppable Brock after beating 'Taker is all the same, he destroys Cena at SummerSlam 2014 the same, his eventual title win just seems like an inevitability, and it is when he defeats Bryan at WrestleMania 31

That's all I got. Don't know enough after this. Barely know anything past WM17, as it is.

Apr 14, 2022 1:51:55 GMT Baker said:

Yeah I'm with RT on this one. 🤯 you broke your own rule in the very first post! Started on gummies early today? Also, 14 years is a long, long time...

I played around with this earlier. Got up to Edge in 06-07 before hitting the wall.

Without the internet or a weekly television show, 14 years goes by in the blink of an eye!

Aside from my Michaels repeat, where did I break my own rule?

I was thinking on this more while baking in the sun at the playground this afternoon...

It's like a puzzle, and the intent is almost to aggravate fans. With that in mind, I'd like to revise:

1.) Buddy Rogers: April 1963 - May 1963

2.) Bruno Sammartino: May 1963 - April 1977
*Lo siento, Pedro.

3.) "Superstar" Billy Graham: April 1977 - February 1978

4.) Bob Backlund: February 1978 - March 1984

5.) Hulk Hogan: March 1984 - August 1993
* Backlund & Hogan pull off a double turn (face Backlund becoming heel, heel Hogan officially turning face) during the title switch at WrestleMania 0 with former champion Bruno Sammartino officiating the match.

6.) Bret "Hitman" Hart: August 1993 - March 1996
* Hogan drops it to 1993 King of the Ring Bret

7.) Shawn Michaels: April 1996 - February 1997
* The Heartbreak Kid loses his smile and forfeits the belt due to a "knee injury".

8.) Undertaker: March 1997 - August 1998
* 1997 Royal Rumble winner 'Taker defeats "Psycho" Sid Vicious to win the vacant title. Retains against 1998 Royal Rumble winner Kane at WrestleMania XIV while "Cold Stone" faces Mike Tyson in a wrestler vs. boxer main event.

9.) Stone Cold Steve Austin: August 1998 - November 1999
* The Highway to Hell ends with Austin finally being crowned world champion. Reigns until he's run down in the parking lot at Survivor Series 1999, just before a 3-way title match against Rock & HHH.

10.) Triple H: November 1999 to April 2000
* The 3-way at Survivor Series becomes a 1:1 between HHH & Rock for the vacant title. HHH wins through chicanery, but then drops it to 2000 Royal Rumble winner Rock at WrestleMania thanks to interference from Stone Cold. This becomes only the third WrestleMania world title change in history (assuming WrestleMania 0 counts).

11.) The Rock: April 2000 to...

Fuuuck me, to be continued again. (Maybe. I'm realizing this was a really dumb idea after all.)

Kilgore, that feels like perfection.

Can you do WCW next?

Let me take a stab at this under the proviso that timing is everything, I'm also going to factor in real life issues just for more fun...

Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania XII to Survivor Series 1996 - Shawn would never survive as a champion, his whole matches relied on him taking death defying bumps and you just couldn't do that on that schedule. Instead of adjusting, Shawn tucked tail and lost his smile. We're taking the belt off him for his own good.

Sid Vicious - Survivor Series 1996 to Wrestlemania XIII - When in doubt, give Sid a run. It is what it is and the guy literally took a dump on the Wrestlemania XIII main event but we just have to suck it up because...

The Undertaker - Wrestlemania XIII to Wrestlemania XIV - We play around with dates a little but ultimately it's Taker/Austin and the only man capable of keeping them in order is Iron Mike Tyson. Austin gets his Hogan WM III moment.

Steve Austin - Wrestlemania XIV to No Mercy 1999 - You can play around a little with interim champions with Austin getting fired/suspended etc. but this whole period is all about Stone Cold Steve Austin.

Triple H - No Mercy 1999 to Wrestlemania 2000 - With Austin needing time off, HHH finds himself at the right place right time. He also gets to retire Foley before dropping the belt to...

The Rock - Wrestlemania 2000 to Wrestlemania X-7 - The Rock finally gets his big run and the fans are absolutely gagging for it. The Rock runs through the entire roster until he meets...

Kurt Angle - Wrestlemania X-7 to Survivor Series 2001 - Kurt represents the company with the three Is but a cult hero makes the step up and becomes champion...

Rob Van Dam - Survivor Series 2001 to King of the Ring 2002 - RVD surprisingly handles himself well swimming against the sharks until he finds himself one on one with the next big thing...

Brock Lesnar - King of the Ring 2002 - Wrestlemania XX - Brock dominates the industry unlike anything we've seen before or since. Careers are ended, necks are broken and Brock destroys everyone until...

Chris Benoit - Wrestlemania XX - SummerSlam 2004 - Benoit still gets his thank you run and gets a few PPV matches on top until he drops it to...

Randy Orton - SummerSlam 2004 - Survivor Series 2004 - Hey Randy was pretty over around this time and as long as we didn't try and turn him baby he would have remained over.

Eddie Guerrero - Survivor Series 2004 - Royal Rumble 2005 - Eddie was red hot and over-due for a run. Have him fluke a win and end whatever chances Randy had of being the guy prematurely.

JBL - Royal Rumble 2005 - Wrestlemania XXI - By this point the verdict was in and the fans were into JBL, plus Eddie was beginning to breakdown and rumours suggested that he had relapsed around this time? Anyways, JBL steps in like the pro he is to put over...

Batista - Wrestlemania XXI - New Years Revolution 2006 - Batista was the A-list guy at this point and while you'd have to play around with storylines he would have still gotten over. Sadly Batista's body wasn't made of sturdy stuff so he'd have to drop it to...

Edge - New Years Revolution 2006 - Wrestlemania XXII - The Matt Hardy angle had worked wonders and fans were into Edge. Without HHH ensuring he gets his match at Mania, Edge gets to do the honours for...

John Cena - Wrestlemania XXII - September 2007 - I'm pretty sure this is when John got injured. Anyways Cena has his big run with the title, he most likely fairs better until he ultimately drops it to...

Umaga - September 2007 - Wrestlemania XXIV - It's a choice between Umaga, Kahli or Kennedy and I'm leaning towards the former. Umaga was having some great matches including matches with Jeff Hardy...unfortunately Jeff got himself suspended for Wrestlemania weekend so we need somebody to save us.

Chris Jericho - Wrestlemania XXIV - Survivor Series 08 - Honestly, it took Chris awhile to find his feet when he returned but when he did he was one of the biggest stars in the company and it was his best run as a main event talent. However now it's time to give it to...

Jeff Hardy - Survivor Series 08 - SummerSlam 09 - Jeff gets his run before he decides he's had enough and high tails it. I'm going to go with an out of left field pick who was heating it up on ECW and was considered one of the big stars of the future...

Jack Swagger - SummerSlam 09 - Survivor Series 09 - But it doesn't last long because Swagger doesn't get the luxury of facing Christian on a weekly basis. It's time to give it to one of the best TV workers who not so quietly got suspended a couple of months before...

Rey Mysterio - Survivor Series 09 to SummerSlam '10 - Rey wasn't especially hot around this period but he had the respect of everyone and this was a pretty flat period in the WWE. At SummerSlam Nexus invade and it's our one and only shot to put it on...

Wade Barrett - SummerSlam '10 to Survivor Series '10 - Nexus was red hot but for whatever reason, Vince never really pulled the trigger on them and went all out so a lot of their careers just died on the vine. This is my attempt to fix that. However I'm just going to presume Wade Barrett was extremely average so he can drop it to...

John Morrison - Survivor Series '10 - Extreme Rules '11 - Morrison gets his time in the sun, this was his most over period and it never made sense why he wasn't given more opportunities. Whatever on-screen failing there was came from bad WWE creative and the fans were behind him.

Alberto Del Rio - Extreme Rules '11 - Money in the Bank '11 - Y'know fans were actually into Del Rio at one point in time before the WWE missed their opportunity and all the fans wanted was...

CM Punk - Money in the Bank '11 to Survivor Series '13 - Cheating a little, but the initial hype over the pipebomb was huge so let's capitilise on it and go all in. Eventually his co-horts bites the hands that feeds leading to...

Dean Ambrose - Survivor Series '13 to Wrestlemania XXX - If there was a figurehead in the Shield, it was actually Dean originally until the WWE clearly rewrote the story and made it abundantly clear it was actually Roman and Seth. I think they come into their own more later on and Dean serves as a better sacrificial lamb...

Daniel Bryan - Wrestlemania XXX to May 2014 - Unfortunately Bryan would suffer a serious injury that would keep him out for the majority of the year so his first reign ends on a whimper.

Bray Wyatt - May 2014 to Wrestlemania XXXI - Wyatt was red hot around this time with the fireflies and 'the whole world' shtick before Cena beat him and he found himself trading wins with Jericho. We're going all in here, Bray as an unstoppable force who has the McMahon empire in his hands.

Seth freakin Rollins - Wrestlemania XXXI - October 2015 - Seth denying Roman his glory at Wrestlemania was one of the better stories the WWE told, so let's stick with it. Unfortunately Seth suffered an injury. We can do a bunch of shmozzles before we do the RR stip where the winner takes the title.

AJ Styles - Royal Rumble 2016 - SummerSlam 2016 - We debut AJ Styles red-hot with a championship victory 15 years in the making. However an old rival takes him down..

Finn Balor - SummerSlam 2016 - Post-SummerSlam RAW - Unfortunately destiny is cruel and Finn is resigned to a 1 day reign that opens things up for...

Kevin Owens - August 2016 to Great Balls of Fire 2017 - Basically as it was without the Goldberg reign.

Samoa Joe - Great Balls of Fire 2017 to No Mercy 2017 - Joe was pretty much over from the get go and like Styles gets a big thank you run from the get go

Braun Strowman - No Mercy 2017 to Wrestlemania 2019 - Braun was pretty over but I'm really struggling to think of alternatives. 2017/18 was a really odd time for the championship.

Kofi Kingston - Wrestlemania 2019 to Survivor Series 2019 - Kofimania got over and while the title scene was largely pretty forgettable around this time, Kofi can do a decent job of carrying it.

Aleister Black - Survivor Series 2019 to Wrestlemania 2020 - Aleister was clearly getting pushed by Heyman as a top star until Vince decided to go in another direction. Since we can't put the title on Brock, Aleister gets to fill that void.

Drew McIntyre - Wrestlemania 2020 to SummerSlam 2020 - Poor Drew, finally got over then a global pandemic killed his run.

Roman Reigns - SummerSlam 2020 to Now - Finally without a crowd to bury him, Roman finally got over as a star and all it took was beating everyone on the roster in comprehensive fashion. Who knew that's all it would take? Yeah I cheated to get there, but it's really only now that Roman feels undeniably over.

So I went in a different direction and went crazy. Maybe I'd change 2016/17 around to let AJ carry the belt but I'm spacing on viable alternatives.

I really like Kilgore 's run down and can't find much wrong with it other than Mick Foley never gets a title win. I think that needs to be in there. I'd have him be the one to dethrone Triple H, returning in 2003 for one last battle with The Game. Foley wins, the feel good moment happens, the fans go insane, then after a very short reign he drops it to Kurt Angle.

Continuing on with that post, I'd have Randy Orton beat Brock Lesnar at some point. Orton pops up as the weathered veteran that has never won the big one. He spent the mid 2000s in Triple H's shadow and never got to face him before he lost the title. He came up short against Angle, Undertaker, Cena, Punk, you name it. He's basically gone from the cocky asshole who didn't have what it took to win, to a huge star that wants to win the title before he hangs it up. I have him take it off Lesnar in 2017-ish, carry it for a year or so, then eventually drop it to Roman Reigns, who is still the current champ today.

EDIT: And I'd have Edge take it off Reigns before he retires. Everything is the same: he had a great singles run but injured himself and was forced to retire before he got a shot at the world title. Now he's back, on a great run, and before he hangs it all up for good he wants that title. Face Edge vs The Tribal Chief would be massive.

Edge finally gets a run and then drops it to whoever, I dunno. Maybe Finn Balor? Kevin Owens?

Since I like being a contrarian, I gotta ask you 🤯, is this exercise been applied in a non-kayfabe world? maybe my curiosity doesn't fit here. This thread is fun. I was just wondering if you were running this like a TV product how would it work?

Apr 14, 2022 20:17:52 GMT RT said:

I really like Kilgore 's run down and can't find much wrong with it other than Mick Foley never gets a title win. I think that needs to be in there. I'd have him be the one to dethrone Triple H, returning in 2003 for one last battle with The Game. Foley wins, the feel good moment happens, the fans go insane, then after a very short reign he drops it to Kurt Angle.

Continuing on with that post, I'd have Randy Orton beat Brock Lesnar at some point. Orton pops up as the weathered veteran that has never won the big one. He spent the mid 2000s in Triple H's shadow and never got to face him before he lost the title. He came up short against Angle, Undertaker, Cena, Punk, you name it. He's basically gone from the cocky asshole who didn't have what it took to win, to a huge star that wants to win the title before he hangs it up. I have him take it off Lesnar in 2017-ish, carry it for a year or so, then eventually drop it to Roman Reigns, who is still the current champ today.

EDIT: And I'd have Edge take it off Reigns before he retires. Everything is the same: he had a great singles run but injured himself and was forced to retire before he got a shot at the world title. Now he's back, on a great run, and before he hangs it all up for good he wants that title. Face Edge vs The Tribal Chief would be massive.

Edge finally gets a run and then drops it to whoever, I dunno. Maybe Finn Balor? Kevin Owens?

I missed a step here and forgot a name that I should not have forgotten: Chris Jericho.

Either I have Jericho beat The Undertaker in like 2009-ish, then drop it to Cena, or he beats Punk after the Summer of Punk in 2012, probably early 2013.

Bonus points if Jericho doesn't win it until sometime in early 2018, perhaps defeating Orton, then leaves to wrestle in Japan and start AEW.

EDIT: Actually I think it makes more sense of Cena beats Undertaker then Jericho beats Cena before dropping it to Punk.

Apr 15, 2022 0:07:26 GMT Ed said:

Since I like being a contrarian, I gotta ask you 🤯, is this exercise been applied in a non-kayfabe world? maybe my curiosity doesn't fit here. This thread is fun. I was just wondering if you were running this like a TV product how would it work?

I guess both kayfabe and non-kayfabe? I think TV, especially once we get to the era of monthly PPVs and the Attitude Era gets tricky. But I think there's something to the Hogan/Lesnar model of keeping the current champion's appearances exceedingly rare. Helps protect against overbooking and booking into corners maybe? I'll have to think more on this and get back to you...

ECW is very easy to do, can really make title changes seem like a big deal.

Shane Douglas (August 1994-April 15 1995)

Shane won the ECW title in March 1994, but we're starting the ECW lineage in August after the NWA Title swerve being the true start of Extreme Championship wrestling. And Shane really was the perfect first champion, the X-rated Flair, the proto-The Game, making the ECW title the antithesis of everything he hated about mainstream wrestling at the time.

The Sandman (April 1995-December 1995)

Just as it really went down, Sandman defeats Douglas with the help of Woman, and has the same exact title reign.

Raven (December 1995-April 1997)

Skipping Mikey's title reign, which is a little bit of a bummer, it was magical, but it's hard to justify considering every moment Mikey had in wrestling after. Toyed with Superstar Steve Austin WWWF like transitional reign, but Sandman to Raven is too perfect. It's the way it has to be. Raven defeats Sandman at December to Dismember 1995, and is the long reigning champion of ECW's peak creatively, the perfect face for that period.

Terry Funk (April 1997-August 1997)

Terry winning the belt at Barely Legal can not be rebooked, it's just too perfect.

Sabu (August 1997-November 1998)

As in real life, Sabu defeats Funk at Born to be Wired, but we give him a real reign afterwards. I understand why it went back to Douglas, for all the reasons he made sense in 1994, only now on a bigger scale, with a bigger audience, Douglas can be the same sort of mascot for "Real Wrestling," as ECW transitions to the big time. But the fact is, Sabu just by being Sabu is really the perfect face of ECW. The first time you saw Sabu was mindblowing, he embodied the alternative aspect of ECW's workrate best, and him as champion better illuminates what you're dealing with when you turn on ECW. Douglas, in comparison, is too traditional.

Taz (November 1998-November 1999)

I hate this so fucking much. My Sabu fandom will never forgive myself for having him pass the torch (again) to Taz, and at November to Remember, an event meaningful to both their careers, but this is just the way it has to be. Taz is so much better chasing a title than having one, but it's just his time, and he's he guy to lead ECW into the basic cable big time.

RVD (November 1999-)

The Mike Awesome experiment was worth having, but even without the bad ending, it's kind of insane that they didn't go in this direction. And now knowing how Mike Awesome's title reign ends, it has to be this way. The Wrestlemania 6 for ECW, Title vs. Title, an extremely heel Taz threatening to bring the ECW belt to WWF with him vs. RVD at the peak of his overness in ECW. At November to Remember, the grandaddy of ECW events. RVD beats Taz clean as can be (and Sabu sends Taz packing at the next ECW Arena show).

RVD doesn't break his ankle in this world, and has a Year+ reign until the end of ECW. He defeats Scott Hall at Guilty as Charged 2001 in the last ECW pay per view.

If I was trying to be as efficient as possible...

I like the majority of your suggestions, Kilgore. One change I'd make right away is Kurt Angle > Triple H. Angle was just as over as Hunter with only 3/4 of the push. Kurt was better on the microphone and in the ring so for me it's a no-brainer. His biggest competition at the time was Lesnar and since we know that Brock wasn't long for the business, Kurt can carry that mantle.

I'd argue that Cena should come after. It's certainly debatable but Cena was a better promo than Taker and I'd call it even in the ring. I could see arguments for Edge, Batista, Orton, HHH etc. as well but the issue is that none of them really out-performed Cena.

The only guy who did and you picked it was CM Punk. I can live with the majority of the choices except Roman > Brock by Wrestlemania 2021. After telling Vince he wasn't coming back until he got to do his material, Roman has finally found his potential and while the WWE have put the entire machine behind him, he's undeniably the best guy on the show.

WCW

My knowledge of pre-Nitro WCW is dross. Would it be fair to book the title this way:

1. Lex Luger - Great American Bash 1991 - Superbrawl 1992 - Obviously Sting would have been the better choice but because he would go onto become an even bigger star later on, I'll hold off and go with Luger who is left holding the bag.

2. Big Van Vader -Superbrawl 1992 - Starrcade 1993

3. Ric Flair - Starrcade 1993 - Bash at the Beach 1994 - I'm actually tossing up between Flair, Sid and keeping the title on Vader until Hogan arrives. Flair deserves to have a run at some point and this still feels like the most ideal time setting up a Hogan/Flair showdown to kick off the new era in WCW.

4. Hulk Hogan - Bash at the Beach 1994 - Starrcade 1997

5. Sting - Starrcade 1997 - Starrcade 1999 - Most fans agree that Sting deserved a better run with the title, it's just a matter of finding a suitable length of time. I feel two years is about right, especially with Goldberg on the horizon.

6. Goldberg - Starrcade 1999 - 3/26/01 Nitro - I did toy around with giving Big Poppa Pump a run but let's just cut to the chase. Bill was over, yes he was green, yes he ended Bret's career but he was undeniably over.

BONUS AEW

1. Kenny Omega - AEW All Out 2019 - AEW Full Gear 2021 - AEW played it really safe in the beginning by giving it to Jericho but Chris did a pretty mediocre job of carrying the mantle (he literally lost it at one point...) and AEW for whatever reason shied away from Omega. In hindsight let's go all in on Omega and really establish that point of difference between the WWE and AEW.

2. Bryan Danielson - AEW Full Gear 2021 - Now - Stepped into AEW and quickly reaffirmed that he's still the best in the world. Has decided to fade into the background and help groom the next generation but I'm still not seeing anyone actually out-perform him. CM Punk is the only other guy I buy with MJF a potential pick down the line if he can step it up in the ring.