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Post by Baker on Jan 1, 2018 16:51:28 GMT
No, even I am not crazy enough to watch and organize 100+ Bret Hart matches. But a poster at PWO called Grimmas is. This is his list. I thought it might be of interest given all the Bret Hart fans we have here. Here's his Top 25. You can follow the links from there to check out the rest of his list if you're so inclined. prowrestlingsuperblog.wordpress.com/2018/01/01/top-100-bret-hart-matches-part-4-25-1/I may be back later with a few comments.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2018 17:49:40 GMT
Wow, awesome. I'm definitely reading all of this.
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Post by Da Gr8t I Is on Jan 1, 2018 18:25:26 GMT
Cool list....Just surprised that not one Shawn and bret match didnt crack the top 25.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2018 20:44:35 GMT
Top 3 could really be a 3-way tie. Any order is acceptable. And I've always preferred Summerslam to ONO, but I know I'm alone on that.
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Post by Shootist on Jan 1, 2018 21:59:13 GMT
Besides the suspect ranking of the Summerslam '92 match and forgetting the historical impact of the WM 13 match an interesting top 25. Combing back through the list the Iron Match Match is so underrated now. That's what happens when people are used to a dozen false finishes in a 15 minute match nowadays.
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Post by kashdinero on Jan 2, 2018 10:06:10 GMT
TBH I never liked the IM match. It bored the piss out of me as it happened, and again when I watched it years later on VHS. It was like they had a twenty minute match and then went and stretched it out far longer than it had any right being. The fact that the building had less people in it than when they started speaks volumes on what I consider a huge fail. We can chalk it up to short attention spans or whatnot, but that is an excuse I really don't abide to; a match like that would have been out of place in eighty six WWF, let alone as the selling point of the biggest show of the ninety six WWF calendar year. Sure the finishing sequence played out well enough, but the rest of it was like a punishment to anyone hoping for any real excitement.
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Post by SM on Jan 2, 2018 21:13:11 GMT
Great to see the right Bret/Austin match at #1.
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Post by Kilgore on Jan 3, 2018 0:13:11 GMT
Disagreement with rankings aside, it's a really fun list to read. I definitely want to watch some of those Hart Foundation vs. Killer Bees matches now. I've noticed the Hart-Funk Wrestlefest match has been a fast riser in recent years, rarely mentioned before, and now I've seen it mentioned as a minor classic in a couple of different places. I love that the Flair match at Souled Out is so high. I remember rewatching that a few years back and loving it. It's such a fun match. Bret wrestled it like it was a continuation of the Screwjob, like minutes had passed, not a month plus, and still filled with rage.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2018 2:29:14 GMT
Yeah that was a good read, he talks a lot about some of the good things Bret does in wrestling. Some matches ive never heard about that i want to watch. This inspires me to finish my Bret supertape.
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Post by kashdinero on Jan 3, 2018 6:15:24 GMT
Very agreeable with the placement of the '94 Raw match with Kid. One of my favourite stories ever in any medium, with added extra bonus points for Kid spin kicking the absolute shit out of Brets face. Waltman truly was a special stand out back then. I remember being a fan of his for ages and I had never even seen him wrestle, but the Apter rags hyped him up as the craziest most reckless high flyer of the times. To say I marked out when he started showing up on Raw would be a vast understatement. As Kilgore, also noted, the Killer Bees match intrigues me big time. I always just blindly took it for gospel that the Harts best matches from back in that era were against the 'dogs. I've probably even seen some Bees/HF matches but never really paid 'em any mind. That's what I love about lists like these; there's always new perspectives out there that can pique my interest where it may not usually have fell.
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Post by Baker on Jan 3, 2018 15:24:56 GMT
This was a fun ride. I intend to check out some of the lesser known Bret matches that ranked highly. The Owen Action Zone match, Flair at Souled Out, Funk, and HOG come to mind. Steamboat, too. I think I saw the Steamboat match on one of WWE's Bret sets but I remember nothing about it. And count me in as another one who is intrigued by these Killer Bees matches. There are several Harts/Bees matches up on Youtube or Dailymotion if you're interested.
What I liked most about his list was how he put the lesser known matches over the more famous bouts with Austin, Perfect & Bulldog. I don't necessarily agree with all of those picks but it added an aura of authenticity to the project. Like any old hack can just rattle off Bret's most famous matches. This dude went in a different direction. You can't exactly call those matches deep cuts, as they're all pretty famous in their own right, but you get what I'm saying.
The Quebecers match, both Backlund matches, and the Owen Summerslam cage match would have finished much higher had I done this project. Also would have bumped the Piper & Savage matches up a few spots to get them in the Top 15. And at least one of the Bret/Shawn Survivor Series matches would have cracked my Top 25, probably both.
As for some other stuff.....
I too preferred Bret/Undertaker Summerslam to One Night Only.
The Ironman match bored me when I watched it in real time. Then a few years passed and I pretended to like it, or at least appreciate it, because I felt like I was supposed to. I watched it another time around 2000 and thought it was even worse than when I watched it the first time. It's heatless and dull. It's like 10 minutes of nothing followed by one frantic minute of action. Rinse and repeat 5 or 6 times. And couldn't you actually see some fans leaving? I've tried watching it a few times since then but never even came close to making it all the way through.
I might be back later to post my Top 15-30 Bret matches from an ancient Best Matches WWF of the 90s list I compiled like a decade ago after watching all the most famous 90s WWF matches on a set of comp tapes I bought.
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Post by 🤯 on Jan 3, 2018 16:09:27 GMT
This is a little off-topic perhaps, but count me in with the Iron Man haters. It's hard for me to imagine committing upfront to ever sit through an hour-long match. Even matches I start with no idea they'll be so long by the end, struggle to keep my throughout.
The finish to the Iron Man was fun, no doubt. And the sudden death overtime period gave Bret's character legit ammo to cry screw job later on. So that's a plus, IMO. But there was no excuse for it to be 0-0 for 60 minutes. I feel like they could've told so much more of an interesting story throughout (and even afterward) by utilizing falls.
Have Bret score the first fall as defending champ. And have him hold a fall or two advantage over Shawn heading into the final stages. Now there's drama and a sense of urgency behind if Shawn can rally, or if Shawn will choke in his second straight 'Mania title match. Shawn miraculously rallies to tie this up at 3-3.
Then you can have time expiring rob Shawn of a three-count while he has Bret covered for a victory-ensuring fourth fall. Or maybe stick with the emotional rollercoaster theme. Shawn has rallied to tie things up and appears to be on the verge of scoring a fourth fall to take the lead when Bret catches him in the Sharpshooter. Shawn refuses to give up on his boyhood dream, rides time out in the excruciating hold, and taps the mat in frustration after time expires.
The match ends in a draw. Bret walks off with the belt since draws go to the champ. But then Gorilla comes out and restarts the match under sudden death overtime rules. We get the finish we got. Shawn realizes the boyhood dream. Bret is pissed because he never agreed to sudden death overtime when signing the contract, he scored the first fall, had more falls than Shawn for most of the match, and Shawn tapped after regulation time expired... which means, if sudden death overtime started immediately after regulation time ended (as it arguably should have), Shawn submitted. Shawn is champ. Bret is pissed and protected. And most ideally, hopefully a dramatic match with lots of twists and turns and falls would've kept live fans from leaving to beat traffic and kept viewers' attention throughout.
If you can't book a match like this because of wrestlers' egos or whatever reason, what would you have done instead for the 'Mania 12 main event? Maybe just Bret and Shawn in a straight-up singles match? You might be able to achieve the same finish then. Or, if you're trying to use this match to get over the young New Generation and stamp Shawn as THE guy, do you go with Shawn's specialty, the ladder match?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2018 17:37:14 GMT
I hated the iron man match back in real time just because Bret lost but i always thought the match was great. Over the years hearing everybody on PW hating on it made me forget how great it was, i watched it earlier this year for the first time in a long time and really enjoyed it.
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Post by Kilgore on Jan 4, 2018 1:07:31 GMT
I liked the Iron Man at the time. Liked it on rewatch in the early 2000's. Never loved it, though, and will probably never watch it again. It always struck me as more of an accomplishment to appreciate than something to enjoy. The jazz of wrestling, basically. Bret and Shawn will enjoy it more than anybody else.
The Screwjob is my favorite match they ever had. I saw them wrestle each other at a House Show in '92 too, but I remember very little of it. It was probably basically their first Survivor Series match.
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