Growing up in the 80's secondary titles were a big deal. The US, Intercontinental, TV, ect....  all had value.  Now they just seem blah.  Every now and then the right person will have a good title run.  But for the most part they seem like a prop for a pop. 

Might as well not have them. Nobody cares who holds them.

Jan 6, 2018 10:56:58 GMT @ness said:

Might as well not have them. Nobody cares who holds them.

This.

Last time I actually cared about the IC title was probably 1995.

I care.

Guys like Tye Dillinger will never be world champ. If you get rid of the midcard titles, then scrap the midcard, scrap SD. Make Raw a 1 hour show. 3 matches. Show's over.

It's all in the booking. If you write it the right way, with the correct champ/challenger(s), it can still mean something, but the audience is far different than it was in the 80's/90's. A lot of the fans these days only know the "WWE" way. NJPW is doing great things with secondary titles. ROH has had success with certain wrestlers holding lesser titles.

When Cena had the US title open challenge, that worked. But that was 3 years ago? You need to be dedicated (writers) to them to make it work, but you also need those workers that can make it work.

Jan 6, 2018 16:43:48 GMT Mistress said:

I care.

Guys like Tye Dillinger will never be world champ. If you get rid of the midcard titles, then scrap the midcard, scrap SD. Make Raw a 1 hour show. 3 matches. Show's over.

This sounds good to me.

The Hulu version of Raw is, what, 90 minutes? Some some it's easier to digest.

I think if you clearly define these belts as 'mid-card' belts - that's step one in the right directly. Rather than a title constantly on the peripheral of the WWE Championship for example. WWE do this, far too often. 

To me, the value in these secondary belts is to see if a mid-card worker can work as a champ. Clearly at this point in their careers, still a mid-card talent. This is where you learn to work a main event style, before potentially becoming a main eventer. Or simply, " Get Over " 

I don't like the idea of the IWGP US Title right now, I think it's only really a prop for Omega to carry around when working outside Japan. To me, would it have more value on a lesser talent? Probably. I see Omega as far too good for a secondary belt, kayfabe wise, his one focus now should be firmly cementing his place as " Best in the World " by winning the IWGP Heavyweight Championship. Preferably he would drop the belt, then it would eventually find itself around the waist of someone like Marty - who isn't a main event guy, but can also continue carrying it internationally. But most importantly, it's experience, it's exposure, it's further education with the right opponents. 

Secondary championships are antiquated and do little to get guys over. I've always been a big believer that personal grudges is a much more effective way to get guys over, putting a random belt on somebody is just lazy. Even in NJPW where the Intercontinental Championship could be compared to the SmackDown Championship, it's usually treated as a way to showcase a star talent without them going after the ace. The problem is that they usually find themselves up against challengers who have no personal connection with the champion or aren't established enough.

The bigger issue with the championship scene in NJPW is that there are too many championships. We've got a World, an IC, a US, a Never Openweight, a Tag, A Jr. Tag, A Jr. title and a 6-Man Championship. There's little reason to get invested in watching somebody chase a championship, because if they're remotely over, they'll most likely hold a championship. The junior heavyweight championship I feel is completely out of place in modern Pro Wrestling and ultimately creates an unnecessary obstacle where guys have to overcome a stigma in order to be accepted as a legitimate star.

Then you get companies where the talent pool is shallow and yet they insist on a mid-card belt. For instance, I thought ROH lost a lot of steam when they introduced the TV Championship. Before you used to have a champion who would take on all-comers and it worked on a couple of levels. Not only did it keep the championship scene fresh, but on a meta level, you got to see a guy like Danielson prove they were the best the company had to offer. When they brought in the TV Championship, it just created this unnecessary ceiling where guys like El Generico or Jay Lethal would find themselves working against a Mike Bennett who fans never cared about. Not only did it hurt them, it also hurt the champion. In this case, Richards ended up working more tag matches and never established himself as a singles guy.

The Tye Dillinger argument doesn't fly with me. So many popular acts back in the day never had to win a championship in order to get over, putting a championship on Dillinger isn't going to make him more appealing.

Tye will never be world champ, so without a midcard belt, why sign with WWE? Money? Bucks and Omega are proof you can make more money in Japan than the E...so what's the point?

And ROH's tv title scene is better than WWE's midcard scene. If you don't need a midcard belt there, then why is everyone crying for a women's title? It's not needed either, then.

And Pete you must not watch much NJPW. I watched WK12 and I was very invested in every match. Too many titles? Not when you have brilliant writing and wrestlers.

The Bucks are a special case. Their shirts are doing really well thanks to the Hot Topic deal. Plus having the evil empire out to get you raises their stock a lot. Very few can make a living off the indies. Plus being a former wwe talent no doubt allows you to get a higher asking price.

Why sign? Hell, why even get in the business when your chance of making it is so small? Being in the wwe is still a dream for nearly everyone. I bet it is easier to make a good living being lowly midcard scum than getting to the bucks level.

I'd imagine the opportunity to work for a mid-card championship would be the last thing on most performers minds. The money, the exposure, the stability, the opportunity to work with the best talent on and off the screen and the personal satisfaction of being able to tell your family you got to work with the best organisation in the world would all come first. Guys like Kenny and the Bucks are doing well, but you'll find they're few and far between. Most of the 205 Live guys are making more than they did on the independents, which says a lot.

You may think that about ROH, but the championship wasn't necessary. If anything it was another decision that made ROH more like the WWE under Cornette which fans didn't like. I'm not aware of any outcry for an ROH Women's Division. As far as I know, there's concerns they'll either give it to the top stars wife, or the bookers girlfriend. Even so, having the women compete for a championship is different to the men competing for a lesser championship. If there was a Women's US belt I'd agree, but that isn't the case.

I'm glad you enjoyed the show, despite my harsh ratings, I had a blast watching the show as well. Still, there's always room for an improvement and the show would have been better if there was less titles. There would be a greater sense of competition, and you'd have less meaningless title changes where guys have to lose the titles for the purpose of the show.

Much like everything in wrestling, book a championship run in a compelling way and i'm interested. If they don't, i'm not. You can't expect me to get excited about a Baron Corbin U.S. title run when he's booked the way he's booked. On the other side, I think Miz is always a solid pick to make that belt relevant while it's on his waist. He's got the perfect cocky chicken shit heel character and he's that beatable guy in the eyes of the fans who more often than not by hook or crook finds a way to keep the belt. I thought his Feud with Ziggler back in late 2016 was awesome.

Sure the mid card belts don't feel as important as they did in the late 80s and early 90's or even in the craziness of the attitude era but they still have some guys that make those belts mean something. I think WWE missed the boat on Samoa Joe though. I would have had him win the IC title off Roman and then go on and hold that belt for over a year before finally dropping it. I think that would establish him even more and add a bit more sizzle to what he has going on.

Over on SD I fear that WWE learned zero from Jinder's world title run. Giving him a secondary belt won't go over any better. The whole plan was to get business up in India and that clearly didn't work. Not every guy has it, Jinder is one of those guys who just doesn't. You can't go from 3MB and losing every match to world champ and expect the fans to just be cool with that. Nakamura needs the belt more than anybody right now. He's been dying ever since Summerslam and they need to do something to stop the bleeding.