Kurt claims he was gonna win it (like Luger @ X lol... or so they say) but it was changed to Jericho as they needed a new star. Do you think was the right move. Considering Austin/Rock were not considered because of the Hogan match and if HHH was always winning for the comeback... makes you wonder if Kurt wouldn't have made it work with Steph considering their history and chemistry. Maybe Kurt was the plan and they just replaced his name with Jericho with no changes to his character at all. Beating Austin and Rock in the same night feels like a great Kurt glory promo line. Can ya believe Jericho doesn't mention this every night? Literally wasting one of the greatest accolades this side of the streak.

Like for bragging rights doesn't get much better. Imagine of Savage beat Hogan and Warrior @ WM4 in the tourney.

#shouldabeenkurt

Kurt makes more sense. Not only because of the history with HHH and Steph but also because of the Kiss My Ass club storyline they had going with Vince. Kurt was Vince's right-hand guy and they were clearly building a new Corporation with Kurt, Booker, Bossman, Test, Regal, Lance, The Dudleys etc. However it was such a tumalteous time and they were changing creative on a weekly basis they clearly decided to go in another direction at the last minute and tried to make it work. This was around the same era where Ric was never going to wrestle in a WWF ring and the Hardy Boyz were meant to break up.

The funny thing was that I don't think anyone really cared about it online. They were more excited to see the return of HHH who featured on the Vengeance poster. Fans thought that it was clearly a sign and that HHH was going to play a pivotal part in the show. When that didn't come to fruition, fans were disappointed which was becoming a trend in the company.

Fans were happy enough to see Jericho win the title. It was unexpected and hopefully a sign that the WWF were going to go in a new direction. However it soon became clear that the WWF didn't believe in Jericho and didn't give him much credibility. The win against the Rock remedied that to an extent, but when the nWo joined and Jericho was looking after Steph's pet dog the fans lost all interest and it was declared one of the worst reigns in WWF history.

I still think Vengeance should have been Rock vs. Austin, Rock goes over and defends the belt against Hogan at Wrestlemania and does the favours. You then go D-Generation X vs. nWo in the Summer, with HHH siding with the nWo leading to HHH vs. HBK. HHH and the nWo reign supreme until a corn-fed country boy from Webster South Dakota wins the Rumble and destroys Hunter and the rest of the nWo at Wrestlemania.

Sept 5, 2022 3:02:02 GMT 🤯 said:

#shouldabeenkurt

Agreed

Sept 5, 2022 11:37:41 GMT Big Pete said:

1. The funny thing was that I don't think anyone really cared about it online. They were more excited to see the return of HHH who featured on the Vengeance poster. Fans thought that it was clearly a sign and that HHH was going to play a pivotal part in the show. 

2. I still think Vengeance should have been Rock vs. Austin, Rock goes over and defends the belt against Hogan at Wrestlemania and does the favours.

1. Can confirm. Huge buzz in my clique for Triple H returning at Vengeance. The tournament for the titles was secondary. I'm likely to blame since I was convinced he was coming back here. WWF worked me good. They teased it in a way only the really plugged in hardcores would notice which gave them plausible deniability when HHH didn't return. Let down he didn't return and doubly let down over stupid Jericho winning the belts.

2. Rock vs. Austin on a B Show? At least hold that off until the Rumble.
=============
You guys already know my thoughts on this era Jericho so it's obvious I was going to hate all three months of his midcard championship run.

Sept 10, 2022 13:23:06 GMT Baker said:

2. Rock vs. Austin on a B Show? At least hold that off until the Rumble.

It took place on a UK PPV! In an ideal scenario, the UK can continue kicking rocks and Vengeance can have Rock/Austin for all the marbles while we quietly tiptoe out of the disappointing Invasion mess.

Plus, low-key the December PPVs were stacked. Armaggedon HIAC, blow-off to HHH/Shawn 02, blow-off to Vince/HHH, Austin/Taker, the debut of Xanta Claus etc.

Sept 10, 2022 13:31:56 GMT Big Pete said:

Plus, low-key the December PPVs were stacked. Armaggedon HIAC, blow-off to HHH/Shawn 02, blow-off to Vince/HHH, Austin/Taker, the debut of Xanta Claus etc.

Bold is the only one that matters. Remember reading somewhere WWF's December pay per views never drew well. Holidays and all. Maybe I'll look it up to confirm once I finish the Highlander post I'm working on. 

Let's not forget the all time greatest December PPV: December To Dismember 2006!

It's kind of a weird time in WWF in late 2001 if I recall. It's like WWF is sort of running out of ideas a little. The WCW Invasion has fizzled out and didn't produce any real new talent of " World " Championship calibre. Survivor Series was basically a WWF road-show ( fun fact, Booker T & RVD were the only outsiders on that SS card who weren't " WWF " guys prior to the invasion ) and the following PPV, Vengeance - the poster features Triple H - who wouldn't return until early 2002. Also one of the biggest names in the industry, The Undertaker is wrestling RVD that night in a 'who-gives-a-shit?' hardcore match. 

So Jericho as Undisputed Champion?

If the intention was to launch a new megastar in the stratosphere, it didn't work. He'd lose the title by March 2002, less than 100 days later having spent most of it playing house-bitch to Stephanie McMahon. And by September he'd be on his 5th Intercontinental Title reign. By October, he's fallen further down the card teaming with Christian to win the Tag Team Titles. And then by 2005, he's completely off the radar for Wrestlemania 21.

Jericho seems to speak excessively about the shenanigans around finding out he was winning the title and the fact he was the first Undisputed Champion, but fails to mentioned how he failed to maintain any momentum during the period and seems to free-fall a peg down the card every year over the next 4 years until his contract expires.

He goes from winning the Undisputed Belt in December 2001 after being WCW Champion throughout 2001 to main eventing with Hunter at 'Mania 18 to mid-carding with Shawn at 'Mania 19 to curtain jerking in match #3 with.... Christian at 'Mania 20. Then having to invent a ladder match to get a spot on the card at 'Mania 21.

Did it tie into WWF's " Anything can happen " gimmick? Sure. But was it was the right choice? Probably not, considering The Rock, Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Undertaker and Kurt Angle were all on hand. 

Personally, I'd put the belt on Austin. He carries it through to Wrestlemania 18 and drops it to Triple H ( who won the Royal Rumble ) and we get closure on The Power Trip angle that preceded The Invasion. Angle wrestles Jericho, and Rock wrestles Hogan. A month later, as it happens in real life - Hunter v Hogan at Backlash. 

The Undertaker was one of the few characters who had a direction and him bullying the hottest act in Rob Van Dam, the Tough Enough winner in Maven and Vince's rival in Flair was some of the best work of his career. Taker had been really struggling for relevancy for sometime. The fans hated the DDP feud and the Kronik stuff where Stevie Richards tried to exact his revenge for Right To Censor was infamously bad. So the change in direction was one of the few positives.

I started typing a reply to this but it turned into me fantasy booking 2001 from Mania onwards. Maybe I’ll just post that sometime!

Sept 24, 2022 16:32:11 GMT @aaron said:

I started typing a reply to this but it turned into me fantasy booking 2001 from Mania onwards. Maybe I’ll just post that sometime!

Please do!

Sept 24, 2022 17:51:36 GMT 🤯 said:

Sept 24, 2022 16:32:11 GMT @aaron said:

I started typing a reply to this but it turned into me fantasy booking 2001 from Mania onwards. Maybe I’ll just post that sometime!

Please do!

Yeah 🤯 and @aaron have HOMEWORK and I expect it on the desk by the end of the day.

Sept 24, 2022 18:49:50 GMT @ness said:

Yeah ℼ and Aaron have HOMEWORK and I expect it on the desk by the end of the day.

I'll be subverting those expectations and doing it another day! I'm too full of chicken nuggets to reveal my detailed plans to (spoiler) close the year with RVD as WWF champ tonight!