Maybe not the best term, but we're going with it.

🤯 recently made a post referencing the Alley-Oop, a Big Show finisher they tried doing for a minute. Maybe distinguish him from Taker and his color swapped Kane? Perhaps a way to truly showcase his size and strength? Not the first time that's happen Jericho did that for a minute during that transitional period from party host to official heel in the invasion. He used Jarret's stroke and he also had some weird sleeper drop. One of them I believe was called the Breakdown.

I don't know why they were a thing? Perhaps to be a SUPERSTAR(tm) you need a quick match ender. Submissions honestly kinda limit ya. Kurt had the Olympic Slam (Angle Slam because we're basic bitches) first before he janked Shamrock. Lionsault was too weak to pass and he couldn't do the GOAT triple powerbomb onto any main event talent. Makes more sense to do in Japan where even Young Boys have 2-3 secondary finishers. Not sure what the thought process was here. Perhaps just an integral part of being a star. You need a theme song that HITS and a finisher that just has JBL going BALL GAME.

tldr: I thought I was the only one with intimate knowledge of things like the Alleyoop.

Big Show had The Final Cut (stolen from The Hurricane!) too!

The absolute worst was when HHH used the sleeper as a finisher for a while. He beat Jeff Hardy with it once. Awful.

HHH was ahead of the curve, now the sleeper hold is the second most common finisher behind the spear. I don't remember Trips using it as a finish.

The Undertaker used the Dragon Sleeper for a while in the ABA era as a secondary to the Last Ride.

The Judas Effect is super unover, at least with me. Possibly the worst high profile finisher ever.

Okada went through a phase of finishing matches with the Money Clip, a shitty cobra clutch style hold. Why? He got bored of winning with The Rainmaker, a move so over everybody is copying it. Fortunately he's back to the Rainmaker now. Also worked as a reset switch because everyone was kicking out of one or two Rainmakers, now it's back to one Rainmaker wins. That was pretty smart.

Love this topic, @ness! Gonna rack my brain for some of my favorites/deep cuts.

Off hand, recall HHH very briefly trying to make a reverse Indian death lock a thing.

Nov 23, 2022 16:46:40 GMT 🤯 said:

Love this topic, @ness ! Gonna rack my brain for some of my favorites/deep cuts.

Off hand, recall HHH very briefly trying to make a reverse Indian death lock a thing.

Taker has the top rope dive to the outside... HHH has the deathlock. Their break in case of emergency for Mania specialty.

Nov 23, 2022 16:48:22 GMT @ness said:

Nov 23, 2022 16:46:40 GMT 🤯 said:

Love this topic, @ness ! Gonna rack my brain for some of my favorites/deep cuts.

Off hand, recall HHH very briefly trying to make a reverse Indian death lock a thing.

Taker has the top rope dive to the outside... HHH has the deathlock. Their break in case of emergency for Mania specialty.

This just reminded me...

Was the gogoplata/Hell's Gate actually over, or did Undertaker just force it to be over?

Unover Finisher sounds like the documentary for the brand split. So many Eric Escobars hitting their moves to the 3 counts to dead silence.

Taker's whole MMA thing feels like we just went along with it for fear of what happens next. SOUP BONES and all.

Not finishers per se, but signature moves for false finishes that I always hated and never seemed to actually be over...

Matt Hardy's Side Effect & Edge's Edge-o-matic.

Sept 27, 2017 11:52:35 GMT 🤯 said:

Not finishers per se, but signature moves for false finishes that I always hated and never seemed to actually be over...

Ziggler's Famouser - he's never ever ever won a match with it but the announce team still believes!

Nov 23, 2022 17:51:56 GMT @aaron said:

Sept 27, 2017 11:52:35 GMT 🤯 said:

Not finishers per se, but signature moves for false finishes that I always hated and never seemed to actually be over...

Ziggler's Famouser - he's never ever ever won a match with it but the announce team still believes!

One of these days the superplex is gonna DO IT.

Nov 18, 2022 2:32:51 GMT @ness said:

One of these days the superplex is gonna DO IT.

It's broken the ring a few times at least!

I like the Alley-Oop. It's a great move. Especially when a tall wrestler does it. The one problem with Big Show using it is that his Chokeslam is way better, so it just inadequate being used by that specific wrestler. Also has an awful name, which contributes to its not-overness.

All of Chris Jericho's finishers stink except the Liontamer.

Billy Gunn's The One and Only never got over despite it being way better than the Fame-Ass-Er.

Nov 23, 2022 18:58:31 GMT Emperor said:

I like the Alley-Oop. It's a great move. Especially when a tall wrestler does it. The one problem with Big Show using it is that his Chokeslam is way better, so it just inadequate being used by that specific wrestler. Also has an awful name, which contributes to its not-overness.

All of Chris Jericho's finishers stink except the Liontamer.

Billy Gunn's The One and Only never got over despite it being way better than the Fame-Ass-Er.

Good points on terrible name and being used by wrong wrestler (when contrasted against his other/better finisher) hurting the Alley-oop.

Also, Liontamer shout has me realizing how it went from over to un-over as soon as it became a Boston crab. Similar to Cena's FU going from a Death Valley Driver to a fireman's carry toss. Weak sauce in both cases. Then Cena doubled down taking a page outta Jericho's playbook with the loose and sloppy STF. Just snug it up, ya lazy wad!

Lastly, don't besmirch Billy Gunn's Fameasser. It's a quick, hit-it-on-anyone believable finish that works with Gunn's size and highlights his agility. It got so over, for a long stretch, no one knew the move as a Rocker Dropper. None of this is to say that the One and Only wasn't also a great finish too. Poor Billy... Never got what he deserved.

Anyone who names a move after a Chesney Hawkes song deserves respect!

Shane Douglas' belly to belly suplex is your winner. Laughable finisher for 90s ECW, which was basically Cool Move Land.

Having a Sleeper finish was the kiss of death for 90s me. Nothing could be more boring. Yet if you called it something different like the Tazmission or Kokina Clutch I'd be more willing to accept it. Because I was a mark. And I do remember Trips trying (and failing) to get it over.

His once a year Indian Deathlock ruled though. It's no wonder I'm a high vote on the HHH/Book WM 19 match what with H busting out the Indian Deathlock AND The Bookman hitting the rarely seen in WWE Harlem Hangover.

I've told the story before of how I instantly wrote off young Bradshaw because he had a Clothesline finisher. There are like five of them in every match, ya bum!

Bunkhouse Buck used a punch for a finisher. Not a Heart Punch or a foreign object punch. Just a regular old punch. Yawn. Boring. Next.

This will seem weird coming from the internet's #1 JJ fan, but I never liked The Stroke. Always thought it looked like crap. The Brian Christopher/Dennis Condrey Full Nelson Stroke looks much better imo.

Road Dogg's Pumphandle Slam was another dud finisher.

The Alley Oop ruled! I still pop whenever I see an Alley Oop. Saw one not long ago from THE GREAT Judy Martin circa 1983ish. Popped. Because I always do. Show's stupid Final Cut is a much better choice for this thread. Props to @aaron for that one.

Agree with @ness on all those short-lived Jericho finishers sucking though.

I was never crazy about the Angle/Olympic Slam. It worked much better as a nearfall move once the Ankle Lock became Kurt's primary finisher.

One and Only ruled and is much better than the Fameasser, which I was never crazy about.

FU/AA sucked. Proper Death Valley Driver is infinitely better.

🤯 Undertaker singlehandedly got Hell's Gate just as he got almost everything over. And you are so wrong about the Side Effect. The Side Effect ruled! Because crowds almost always bit on the nearfall even though I'm not sure Matt ever pinned a single person with it. Not sure where you got the idea it wasn't over. Is Edge's Edge-O-Matic the 'pull the guy down from behind and sitout' move? I get all his Edge... moves mixed up. If so, it was alright for that level of move. Not great, but decent enough.

Goldust's Curtain Call sucked. Anything else he could have done from that position would have been better. Slop Drop? Better. Malenko's reverse suplex? Better. Daniels' Last Rites? Better. Instead he picked the guy up and put him down. Badder.

Anyone else remember Regal's goofball twisting arm trap neckbreaker? Be glad if you don't.

Controversial Opinion: I never liked the Falcon Arrow/Hollycaust or WWE Michinoku Driver.

Even More Controversial Opinion: The F5 sucks. It rarely lands right. And whenever I see it all I can think is "WEEEE!" Like what a fun little ride through the air.

Yeah for sure Jericho is a top contender for this. I was a massive WWE Chris Jericho fan but his search for a non submission finisher was pretty pants.

Lionsault is alright but loses its impact when everyone’s coming off the top ropes anyway

Double Powerbomb was pretty cool but not really feasible if he was to move up the card

Breakdown (aka Jeff Jarrett’s Stroke) was pretty meh. Never really saw it performed well.

The Flashback (some kinda Sleeper Neckbreaker Drop) was fine as a mid match signature but the way Jericho performed it was not finisher worthy. Chyna had a better version.

Step Up Enzuiguri was pretty cool, although weird to see someone win matches with an Enzuiguri.

Codebreaker was ok as well.

Mostly it seems any new finishers tend to get demoted to signature moves pretty quickly.






Bayley’s not really got great finishers either except for that Elbow Drop. But the Bayley to Belly and Rose Plant are ass for the star she is.

This move SUCKED.



It doesn't look like it does any damage at all. If anything, it looks like it could really injure the person doing it.

MVP did it too and it still sucked.

Overdrive is just one of those weird early 2000s things SOMEONE thought was great and wouldn't let it go. Has to be Vince or someone high up because YIKES.

Baker I do remember the Regal neckbreaker thing.

Falcon Arrow is weird and I like the concept of the move, but BOBCORE was never really in a position to hit where I bought it as anything. By time he was more featured it was basically never used and they had secured Alabama Slam as his move. I mostly know of it from the video games. It's one of those moves you see more in entrance videos than actually executed. I always assumed that was the PWG "joke" on commentary whenever anyone hit the move, oh no he's done the deal. NO ONE kicks out of the Falcon Arrow.

🤯 the bakerman throwing shade at your boy. How do you feel about the Widowmaker that O'Haire used during that 2003 period? Basically an inverted DVD. Just looked up a comp video of it. 2nd hit of the move they called it the Prophecy... clearly they weren't settled on it.

Randy Orton wrestled Test? Wow! Maybe I'm misremembering how long Test was around for...

Clearly not one of your boys. Test had a fine hoss match with Brock @ KOTR 2002 and his last hurrah was in WWECW. They also had BOBCORE. No wonder WWECW was so great.

Overdrive sucked. O’Haire’s Widowmaker was also bad.

Don’t forget the greatness of the Test/Steiner 2003 feud!

Nov 24, 2022 0:40:49 GMT Baker said:

Shane Douglas' belly to belly suplex is your winner. Laughable finisher for 90s ECW, which was basically Cool Move Land.

Agreed. Even guys who were actually good at hitting belly-to-belly suplexes as finishes (Ken Shamrock, Yokozuna, Rikishi, and my man Mabel) had a hard time historically getting the move over with me.

Having a Sleeper finish was the kiss of death for 90s me. Nothing could be more boring. Yet if you called it something different like the Tazmission or Kokina Clutch I'd be more willing to accept it. Because I was a mark. And I do remember Trips trying (and failing) to get it over.

Agreed. Although I did love troll HHH trying to make it a thing like Gretchen & Fetch when he did. Because what could be worse than being handed a world title belt and going on a literal reign of terror while terribly cosplaying as the Four Horsemen? Using a sleeper as a finish! HHH is probably vastly underrated for his mind for the business.

His once a year Indian Deathlock ruled though. It's no wonder I'm a high vote on the HHH/Book WM 19 match what with H busting out the Indian Deathlock AND The Bookman hitting the rarely seen in WWE Harlem Hangover.

With you in perhaps being the only other high vote on that match. I've already commented on HHH's Indian Death Lock, which I too loved despite its unoverness. Inversely, I'm with you on loving the "Houston" Hangover and begrudge Booker for not using it more often in the WWE. Greater sin than Punk never using the Pepsi Plunge, even if both decisions were also totally understandable.

I've told the story before of how I instantly wrote off young Bradshaw because he had a Clothesline finisher. There are like five of them in every match, ya bum!

Booing this take, even if I understand it... on some level. As perhaps Bradshaw's quietest biggest fan(?), I'm sad you didn't recognize the specialness of his special clothesline from much earlier on. Are you saying you NEVER came around on his clothesline!?

Bunkhouse Buck used a punch for a finisher. Not a Heart Punch or a foreign object punch. Just a regular old punch. Yawn. Boring. Next.

Can't comment but this sounds like the most hilarious Bunkhouse Buck thing. Also, I have zero forgiveness for Big Show trying to get a punch over as his finish just because he has a passing interest in boxing once.

This will seem weird coming from the internet's #1 JJ fan, but I never liked The Stroke. Always thought it looked like crap. The Brian Christopher/Dennis Condrey Full Nelson Stroke looks much better imo.

Agreed.

Road Dogg's Pumphandle Slam was another dud finisher.

Great move, buyable finish... Just wrong guy. It's a power move, Dogg isn't a power guy. People wanted to see him Shake, Rattle & Roll or whatever his dancing punch out finish was dubbed. Leave the pump handles for guys like Test when they need to rest their big boots.

The Alley Oop ruled! I still pop whenever I see an Alley Oop. Saw one not long ago from THE GREAT Judy Martin circa 1983ish. Popped. Because I always do. Show's stupid Final Cut is a much better choice for this thread. Props to @aaron for that one.

I'm starting to think I've just never seen a well-executed Alley-oop? Wouldn't surprise me if Judy Martin's is the best; she's a beast. Originatress of the Powerbomb, babay!!~

Am I misremembering, or are yinz all confusing the Final Cut with the Eye of the Hurricane? Hurricane dropped an elbow; I could've sworn Show dropped a hog log of a leg drop instead. Because of the size of Show's thigh, I always like his Final Cut personally. However, I'll die on the hill that all other finishes for him are inexcusable before and after the Showstopper.


Agree with @ness on all those short-lived Jericho finishers sucking though.

Agreed. I'm starting to think the only things Jericho is potentially talented at is promos, self-promotion/reinvention, and coming up with ideas (for himself)... so I guess he's really only kinda talented at one thing?

I was never crazy about the Angle/Olympic Slam. It worked much better as a nearfall move once the Ankle Lock became Kurt's primary finisher.

Sadly agreed. The Angle Slam suffered a three strike death IMO. First was Olympic Committee forcing an IP issue and making WWF rebrand the move as an Angle Slam. Without the context or explanation in real time, it felt like voluntarily downgrading to the store brand. Then I think mounting neck issues and other injuries started to prevent Kurt from getting as much lift or putting as much snap on the move. Then then the introduction of and eventual obsession with the ankle lock, which itself didn't get over with me for a long time because it was so clearly ripped off from Shamrock. And it wasn't even called an Angle Lock to be consistent with the Slam?! It wasn't until this year through his podcast that Kurt made me fully appreciate the name scheme. He took the ankle lock without "permission" from Shamrock, who was actually OK with that because Shamrock didn't invent and thus didn't own the move, but Kurt didn't want to call it the Angle Lock because he thought of the move as Shamrock's, not his. Classy dudes!

One and Only ruled and is much better than the Fameasser, which I was never crazy about.

Love the O&O love, but can't stand for the FA hate. Only strike against the Fameasser IMO is its god awful name.

FU/AA sucked. Proper Death Valley Driver is infinitely better.

Agreed. Except somehow Godfather's Pimp Drop was so shitty I never really grasped in real time that it was a DVD. And yet even so, it was still a million times better than Cena's FU/AA.

🤯 Undertaker singlehandedly got Hell's Gate just as he got almost everything over. And you are so wrong about the Side Effect. The Side Effect ruled! Because crowds almost always bit on the nearfall even though I'm not sure Matt ever pinned a single person with it. Not sure where you got the idea it wasn't over. Is Edge's Edge-O-Matic the 'pull the guy down from behind and sitout' move? I get all his Edge... moves mixed up. If so, it was alright for that level of move. Not great, but decent enough.

Undertaker is the undisputed master of getting stuff over that has no business getting over. He could've gone all in on being nicknamed Booger Red, and I would've been all in on it with him. Frankly, I love the versatility and variety the Dragon Sleeper, Hell's Gates, and Last Ride lended to Deadman's finish arsenal.

I'll let your Side Effect love slide, and it was admittedly far less offensive to the senses that the Edge-o-matic (which you nailed in recalling). That you defended it as a false finish makes me sad. Edge has the worst soft offense this side of John Morrison. The Edge-o-matic, his Edgecution (Impaler DDT?), and spear are all SAWFT and thus infuriating as finishes or even false finishes. I could tolerate his Electric Chair Drop as an occasional false finish. The one finish he should've stuck with, he dropped: the Edgecator (reverse sharpshooter?)... ranked in the tier for me along with the Haas of Pain, Trailer Hitch, and El Paso Lasso.

Goldust's Curtain Call sucked. Anything else he could have done from that position would have been better. Slop Drop? Better. Malenko's reverse suplex? Better. Daniels' Last Rites? Better. Instead he picked the guy up and put him down. Badder.

Wait... What's the difference between a Curtain Call and a Slop Drop? Is a Slop Drop just a Scorpion Death Drop then?

Anyone else remember Regal's goofball twisting arm trap neckbreaker? Be glad if you don't.

Besmircher! The Regal Cutter was perfectly cromulent for Regal as a finish alternative to the Regal Stretch. But this is coming from someone who HATED the Power of the Punch.

Controversial Opinion: I never liked the Falcon Arrow/Hollycaust or WWE Michinoku Driver.

I think technically WWF only ever saw the Michinoku Driver II? Need Michinokudriver to confirm. But I agree it was a weaker finish. Good thing it was mostly relegated to WWF's useless light heavyweight "division".

BOBCORE's best finish, so much so that I've personally retconned it as his only finish ever, is the Alabama Slam. One of my personal Top 10 favorite finishers.

Even More Controversial Opinion: The F5 sucks. It rarely lands right. And whenever I see it all I can think is "WEEEE!" Like what a fun little ride through the air.

Surprise confession: I was only meh on the F5 for a long time. My poor boy Brock struggled with a good finish his first year, and even in general. As impressive as it was, his first finisher (repeating powerbombs resulting in TKOs) were anticlimactic. The first incarnation of the Brock Lock was the world's laziest bear hug. Especially when he'd lay down on the mat. The second incarnation was impressive as hell on Benoit & Rey, but clearly couldn't be applied well on everyone. The Kimura upon his return was "meh" and exposed his shoulders needlessly to pins. WMXIX proved why his epic SSP stopped being a thing. His best finisher for my money was the Ganso Bomb he debuted on BOBCORE. -_-

Hope the font coloring worked!

Sept 27, 2017 11:52:35 GMT 🤯 said:

Am I misremembering, or are yinz all confusing the Final Cut with the Eye of the Hurricane? Hurricane dropped an elbow; I could've sworn Show dropped a hog log of a leg drop instead. Because of the size of Show's thigh, I always like his Final Cut personally. However, I'll die on the hill that all other finishes for him are inexcusable before and after the Showstopper.

Show did the leg thing too, but this was the Final Cut:



I thought he stopped using it in like 2002, so I was kinda surprised to find a gif this recent!

Nov 24, 2022 13:21:59 GMT @aaron said:

Sept 27, 2017 11:52:35 GMT 🤯 said:

Am I misremembering, or are yinz all confusing the Final Cut with the Eye of the Hurricane? Hurricane dropped an elbow; I could've sworn Show dropped a hog log of a leg drop instead. Because of the size of Show's thigh, I always like his Final Cut personally. However, I'll die on the hill that all other finishes for him are inexcusable before and after the Showstopper.

Show did the leg thing too, but this was the Final Cut:



I thought he stopped using it in like 2002, so I was kinda surprised to find a gif this recent!

What was the leg version called?

To his credit, even though I don't like him ripping off my boy Hurricane, the pure body weight mass behind Show's elbow (despite how lazily he delivers it) does look reasonably killer.

Nov 24, 2022 12:23:06 GMT Baker said:

Overdrive sucked. O’Haire’s Widowmaker was also bad.

Overdrive should've died a permanent death throughout all of pro wrestling as soon as Orton moved into the RKO. Perhaps the worst offender of worst mix of a move being overly convoluted and yet also entirely impactless.

I'm torn on the Widowmaker. O'Haire could deliver it with impressive snap, and on big guys like Rikishi to boot... but by turning the opposite way of a DVD, it made the move feel like a knockoff wannabe F5/FU at the time. It also seemed to needlessly expose O'Haire's head/neck to a killer DDT counter. If no one ever hit such a counter, I'm saddened by the missed opportunity.

Nov 24, 2022 12:37:20 GMT @aaron said:

Don’t forget the greatness of the Test/Steiner 2003 feud!

Only worthwhile thing Steiner ever did in his singles WWE run! And sadly, probably the last worthwhile thing Test ever did in WWE. RIP!

😿

Nov 24, 2022 12:03:39 GMT Emperor said:

Randy Orton wrestled Test? Wow! Maybe I'm misremembering how long Test was around for...

Who are you to doubt El Andy!?

Late 1998 to, what... early 2007? Dang, only an 8ish year run? Not enough Test. What a wasted opportunity/talent.

😿

Then he went to TNA and called himself “The Punisher” for some reason!

Overdrive is like the mantle of Tiger Mask. Nobody likes it or respects it... but it just lingered forever so we have to pretend it had value since the Audience of One (tm) writes the checks.

Nov 24, 2022 0:46:02 GMT kingoftheworld said:

Yeah for sure Jericho is a top contender for this. I was a massive WWE Chris Jericho fan but his search for a non submission finisher was pretty pants.

Lionsault is alright but loses its impact when everyone’s coming off the top ropes anyway

Double Powerbomb was pretty cool but not really feasible if he was to move up the card

Breakdown (aka Jeff Jarrett’s Stroke) was pretty meh. Never really saw it performed well.

The Flashback (some kinda Sleeper Neckbreaker Drop) was fine as a mid match signature but the way Jericho performed it was not finisher worthy. Chyna had a better version.

Step Up Enzuiguri was pretty cool, although weird to see someone win matches with an Enzuiguri.

Codebreaker was ok as well.

Mostly it seems any new finishers tend to get demoted to signature moves pretty quickly.

Baker-man gets Lana Star's pink, so you'll get... blue?

I've touched on Jericho, but just to beat a dead horse's corpse into a juicy pulp...

The thing that made Jericho's lionsault most impactful was Jericho's clunky plodfootedness. He was somehow the single heaviest cruiserweight to ever attempt any sort of movement.

He was also absolutely the wrong guy to have any sort of power finish, but especially a double powerbomb.

Also, I misread "pretty pants" as "pleated pants" and now want to start using "X was pleated pants" as my new favorite low key insult of things that are try-hard to look good but ultimately land in the range of meh to lol bad.

Breakdown blew chunks for reasons enumerated by others. Flashback was better, but as you noted, Chyna did it better. I think even Billy Gunn did a better version too on occasion?

Don't even recall the enzuigiri as a regular finish, but I can't picture it being good for Jericho considering his clunky plodfootedness.

The codebreaker, credit where credit is due, was great. I guess if you throw enough shit against the wall, eventually something is bound to stick. But then, as you rightly pointed out, it relatively quickly got demoted from finisher to signature.

Bayley’s not really got great finishers either except for that Elbow Drop. But the Bayley to Belly and Rose Plant are ass for the star she is.

Bayley's finish as a heel absolutely needed to be something involving scissors or scissoring. Missed opportunity, according to Wife. As a face, should've been a Bruno Sammartino-esque bear HUG.

💙