Dec 3, 2022 14:36:55 GMT @ness said:

I say we just make LAWLERMANIA a real thing. I know at least one 1.1er who would be on board.

Baker thoughts?

The most decorated wrestler in history never did win the WWE Championship....Book it, Paul.

Dec 3, 2022 15:26:29 GMT Emperor said:

Dec 3, 2022 12:26:17 GMT NATH45 said:

I've been singing Theory's praises since NXT.

He is perhaps the best all-round up-and-comer in the company.  

You'll find guys that are better workers than Theory - take for example, Johnny Gargano, Chad Gable or Tommaso Ciampa. But all three are glorified midgets, and a lot closer to 40 than 20. 

There's guys that are bigger and stronger - however Kross and Knight and both are starring down 40. And, Madcap doesn't have the refinement, nor the character. 

And guys who have an unmatched level of charisma - Montez Ford being a great example, yet he lacks any seriousness to really break out.  

So in Austin Theory's defence - he's 25 years old. He's a better worker than at least 75% of the roster, he's more comfortable in front of the camera than 85% of the roster, and finally, he looks better than 95% of the roster. If you're going to strap a rocket to anyone, it's him. If Roman gives the company another 5 years - Theory potentially take's the mantle as the top guy by 30. At the very least, he falls in Seth's position as a top contender. 

Great post, you've obviously seen a lot of the guy so you're more qualified to speak about his potential than I do.

How tall is Theory? I never had him pegged as a particularly large man, I thought he was about the same size as those "glorified midgets" .

Does he really look better than 95% of the roster? I'm picturing most of the WWE roster in my head and they stand out way more than Theory. I see Theory the way I see Finn Balor 5-10 years ago. In extremely good physical condition but otherwise completely bland.

That said, a generic look doesn't have to be so bad. The Rock had a generic tights and boots look, was not particularly jacked in his prime, so what?

Got any matches/segments that best represent Theory's innate charisma and star quality?

Also is he called Austin Theory or just Theory? The former is a pretty good ring name, the latter is terrible in the same way that Test is terrible.

As pointed out, there are workers on the roster who surpass Theory on a single attribute. Understanding, I never stated Austin Theory had an immense level of innate charisma (innate is defined as natural, not of volume) as you're implying I provide evidence of. He's certainly charismatic. And it's certainly natural. Can he cut a good promo? Yeah. Can he perform? Yes. Is he on the level of John Cena or The Rock, even Jericho or Miz? No. Someone like Montez, who was my example, has charisma in spades. It's pouring out of his skin, almost to his own detriment (which is another completely different topic) and sure, 'Tez is a great athlete and looks the part, he but isn't a good worker.. yet (he's certainly getting better) or doesn't take himself seriously enough to be a serious wrestler. LA Knight, has all the natural charisma in the world - but he's 40. 

And there's a number of guys who can make claim to being the single best workers on the planet - Styles & Balor come to the mind instantly. But neither possess an "innate" level of charisma. And of the recent call ups, Johnny and Ciampa, etc who may have been the best in their class, just don't have that either, or the physical attributes to really go far.

Now, before you imply I've adopted Vince McMahon's Ruthless Aggression era mindset and everyone needs to be 6'4" and 250lbs - that's absolutely not true. Half the current roster barely exceeds 220lbs, you don't need to be BIG, but you need to look capable. Sure, there's exceptions to the rule - Mysterio's height is irrelevant due to this style of work and presentation. Approx. 6'1" and approx. 220lbs seems to be the magic number in this day and age anyway - Rollins, Sami, The Usos (who are reportedly 250lbs) Rhodes, Miz, Riddle... Austin Theory. 

And as on that, there's ample guys on that roster that are BIGGER. Moss is a great example. He looks a million dollars, but he couldn't be any more generic. He lacks everything I've just talked about - Can he talk? Sure.. he's OK. Can he work? Sure.. he's OK. But he's neither good nor great. 

And then you factor in age, and the need for longevity - Austin Theory is 25. Here's a guy that will give you a +15 year run before he's even thinking about retirement. He could do 20, if he stays healthy. There's very few guys on this roster that are likely to give you more than 5, let alone 10.  

It's a process of elimination. 

Dec 3, 2022 19:39:14 GMT 🤯 said:

Dec 3, 2022 19:23:23 GMT NATH45 said:

Peacemaker is average and you know it.

Who hurt you!?!?

Cena's wooden acting. 

Dec 3, 2022 20:53:38 GMT NATH45 said:

Dec 3, 2022 19:39:14 GMT 🤯 said:

Who hurt you!?!?

Cena's wooden acting. 

BURN!

Except it's not?

Because Cena's acting isn't?

Time for our Hollywood Cena HEEL RUN!!!

Dec 4, 2022 0:27:38 GMT 🤯 said:

Except it's not?

Because Cena's acting isn't?

You're right.

It's not wooden.

Wood has range and versatility.

Dec 4, 2022 1:15:40 GMT NATH45 said:

Dec 4, 2022 0:27:38 GMT 🤯 said:

Except it's not?

Because Cena's acting isn't?

You're right.

It's not wooden.

Wood has range and versatility.

This feels like a 2020s spin on the late 2000s Cena hate...

I'm only comfortable with having Theory beat Reigns if Nicholas can have a run with the IC title.

Otherwise leave Peacemaker alone!!

Dec 4, 2022 2:23:16 GMT 🤯 said:

Dec 4, 2022 1:15:40 GMT NATH45 said:

You're right.

It's not wooden.

Wood has range and versatility.

This feels like a 2020s spin on the late 2000s Cena hate...

Perhaps it's just the cycle

Loved as a heel

Hated as a face

Decade of grinding he earned people's respect into Hollywood

Now it's back to hating... though I really haven't seen the hate anywhere else so I can't call it a "thing"

Dec 3, 2022 20:49:26 GMT NATH45 said:

As pointed out, there are workers on the roster who surpass Theory on a single attribute. Understanding, I never stated Austin Theory had an immense level of innate charisma (innate is defined as natural, not of volume) as you're implying I provide evidence of. He's certainly charismatic. And it's certainly natural. Can he cut a good promo? Yeah. Can he perform? Yes. Is he on the level of John Cena or The Rock, even Jericho or Miz? No. Someone like Montez, who was my example, has charisma in spades. It's pouring out of his skin, almost to his own detriment (which is another completely different topic) and sure, 'Tez is a great athlete and looks the part, he but isn't a good worker.. yet (he's certainly getting better) or doesn't take himself seriously enough to be a serious wrestler. LA Knight, has all the natural charisma in the world - but he's 40. 

And there's a number of guys who can make claim to being the single best workers on the planet - Styles & Balor come to the mind instantly. But neither possess an "innate" level of charisma. And of the recent call ups, Johnny and Ciampa, etc who may have been the best in their class, just don't have that either, or the physical attributes to really go far.

Now, before you imply I've adopted Vince McMahon's Ruthless Aggression era mindset and everyone needs to be 6'4" and 250lbs - that's absolutely not true. Half the current roster barely exceeds 220lbs, you don't need to be BIG, but you need to look capable. Sure, there's exceptions to the rule - Mysterio's height is irrelevant due to this style of work and presentation. Approx. 6'1" and approx. 220lbs seems to be the magic number in this day and age anyway - Rollins, Sami, The Usos (who are reportedly 250lbs) Rhodes, Miz, Riddle... Austin Theory. 

It's almost like you're saying Austin Theory is the least bad option - you're arguing more against everyone else than you are for Austin Theory. It's a sensible perspective from a business point of a view, but as a wrestling fan, it hardly feels like a ringing endorsement.

Moving on to your next paragraph...

Dec 3, 2022 20:49:26 GMT NATH45 said:

And as on that, there's ample guys on that roster that are BIGGER. Moss is a great example. He looks a million dollars, but he couldn't be any more generic. He lacks everything I've just talked about - Can he talk? Sure.. he's OK. Can he work? Sure.. he's OK. But he's neither good nor great. 

This is EXACTLY my impression of Austin Theory. Generic. Just OK. A good hand. That's why I asked you to share a clip or a segment. To prove to me that he's more than just average, and that he really has potential to be a leading man in the future.

Maybe Big Pete hit the nail on the head when he said Austin Theory is in The Rocky Maivia phase of his career. There's no guarantee he'll be the next Rock, but maybe the potential is there? Like I said, I've not seen it, but apparently others have. I'd just like some evidence. If it exists.

If you've seen any WWE programming this last few weeks, you'd clearly see his potential.

Honestly, future potential is so hard to see in real time. The only time I've ever witnessed it was Brock, and even then I didn't realize all the things he'd eventually go on to achieve. So I suppose it's only fair to acknowledge what we know we don't really know. I mean, as fucking awesome as Steve Austin was in WCW... who saw Stone Cold coming?!

Dec 5, 2022 0:31:45 GMT NATH45 said:

If you've seen any WWE programming this last few weeks, you'd clearly see his potential.

I saw the promo he cut on the Raw after Survivor Series. I saw the potential of an average midcarder. But yes as 🤯 said, it is hard to see in real time.

As a contrast to the Brock Lesnar example...

Dolph Ziggler seemed to have something, at various points even... but then here we are approaching two decades later, and maybe the truth is that everyone can seem to have potential because potential is a quantum mechanics issue. Until it's observed as potential that has been realized or squandered (or never actually there to begin with)... It's just potential, which is a state of nothingness or meaningless on par with Schrodinger's cat being both alive and dead at the same time until the observer opens the box.

Remember when Ziggler was the SOLE SURVIVOR and beat the evil Authority?

Then the whole thing got forgotten about, the Authority (rotten storyline TBH) just carried on as normal and Dolph went back to being a spare part.

I honestly think he's reached the later day X-Pac/Val Venis stage. He's been doing the same routine for years and years with the same look, the same entrance music, the same moves, everything. He's just part of the scenery now. Does anyone really care?

There was that weird few weeks (months?) when he had no entrance music and just said "it shoulda been me lol" over and over, but then he was just right back to "HERE 2 SHOW DA WORLD" and tricking the commentators into thinking he might actually win with a Famouser.

Zig is a worker though. Fans may not be loving him, but he is liked a lot backstage for helping get people over. When he is done in the ring he will likely be kept as an agent.

Yeah, the rocks winning the rumble and at mania.