So I haven't been keeping as close of an eye as I use to on the Indies, but from what I can tell there are really no talents seen as can't miss prospects or really standing out from the crowd in any way. There's no one everyone wants one of the bigger promotions to sign Asap. 

I know some of it is down to Covid really hurting Indies, but the women's scene has been cooling off for a while now. It seem's like WWE and AEW/ROH are picking up everybody before they can even create any hype for themselves on the Indies, and then Impact gets the leftovers from that pack , leaving what's left over for the Indies. 


Like if Shimmer (is the promotion even alive anymore?) had a show  tomorrow, who would actually be o it ? Other than some of the impact talents? 

Even  Booker T's promotion long known for producing really talented women wrestlers hasn't really produced anyone that has really garnered any attention since ROK-C. 

It's kind of sad really, it seems like we've backpedaled from where we were a decade or so ago where there were a decent amount of women indy promotions that ran fairly regularly, with lots of talent being showcased. To now where  the extent of the scene seems to be token women's matches on majority male promotions with maybe an additional inter gender match  

Felt like once the 4hw hit the scene via nxt that was it. Most of that scene retired or were signed so there isn't much left.

GCW uses a group of girls, as do many west coast feds. But clearly back to the pre-Shimmer days here with no fed to showcase the up and coming girls as stars.

The scene that is getting red hot is the Joshi scene now with Stardom getting a NJPW title and Maki getting NJPW a lot of attention in the US.  Even Gatoh Move is starting to get a following.

My thoughts on Maria are well known but what's her promotion like? She was doing a good job with the ROH division during the pandemic.

Looks like WWA only had three real tapings, and cancelled the last set of tapings that were supposed to be in Nov.

Feel like part of this has to do with the UK British scene suffering immensely due to COVID. WWE NXT UK let go of a few decent talents IIRC but it's tough I assume to get them stateside with visas etc.

I also think the #MeToo movement in a way has promoters more scared to try and push females heavy on their show. Not that there was anything wrong with the accusers stepping up but as a promoter, why would you want these talents on the show when they can very well whistleblow on you on something that doesn't meet the standard?

Likewise, with the lack of a union and health benefits, more women probably are foregoing the concept of wanting to be a full or even part time wrestler. Why do this when you can try your hand at acting which pays better and takes less toll on your body?

On the contrary, more "failed"(If you even call Rousey's crew or my girl in the avatar failures) MMA talents are going to wrestling since Women's MMA doesn't pay real well unless you were a Dana White cashcow which sort of makes it even tougher for women to get the exposure necessary to float above water.

Really think it is just a numbers game. The average indy show that even books women, gives then a 10 minute spot on a 2 to 3 hour show. Simply not enough free slots to support a thriving women's indy scene. There are girls grinding, but hard to get noticed if you are only working one show every few months for a tiny fed because the larger feds already have the 6 girls or so they use on rotation.

I miss Shimmer. Now if I wanna follow my favorites, I search for their matches on cage match. I found a ton of Nicole Matthews matches on Youtube.

Mia Friday is kind of the new Rok-C in my part of Texas. My nephew went to high school with her but different grades. She's done some work for Booker T. She's still green but not bad.

Booker has a lot of awesome girls coming through his fed.

I watched a Mia Friday match on that recommendation, she looks fine but I don't quite see the it factor that Rok-C had although they're obviously intent on marketing her as her successor given her age.

I also watched the ROW ladder match between Gigi Rey and Promise Braxton which I thought was particularly good, a lot of high risk spots that were executed very well (particularly by Gigi). I see both got a few looks on AEW Dark last year.

One thing about the next gen of indy girls is they all are REALLY young. They may not be as polished as a Rok-C, but can sign them, put them in NXT for a few years, then still have a fresh young star on Raw or Smackdown.

Mar 9, 2023 0:15:03 GMT c said:

One thing about the next gen of indy girls is they all are REALLY young. They may not be as polished as a Rok-C, but can sign them, put them in NXT for a few years, then still have a fresh young star on Raw or Smackdown.

That's exactly what Dex was talking about in the OP, back when Shimmer was at it's peak WWE might have had maybe 10 women signed to developmental, now it's more like 50. That's creating a big void in the indy scene because the remaining talent is just those that are super green, those that are too niche (ie. hardcore/deathmatch types) and those that are stuck in the AEW B category and don't get the opportunity to really extend themselves. 

I think you could make a pretty strong argument that there's only been one or two genuinely elite level women emerge in the US over the past 5 or so years. That's a very low amount. 

Yeah we need another elite women's fed for them to all get experience, but sadly, they do not draw as well, and it is hard to even break even.

Mar 8, 2023 23:42:51 GMT @admin said:

I watched a Mia Friday match on that recommendation, she looks fine but I don't quite see the it factor that Rok-C had although they're obviously intent on marketing her as her successor given her age.

I also watched the ROW ladder match between Gigi Rey and Promise Braxton which I thought was particularly good, a lot of high risk spots that were executed very well (particularly by Gigi). I see both got a few looks on AEW Dark last year.

She's young and been wrestling maybe 2 years while going to high school.  I seen her live last summer and she was green but had charisma.  

So recently Stardom brought in a foreign talent Mariah May for a tour, and the general consensus is that she has been getting better and better as the tour has gone on.
It took a look at her cage match profile and it's crazy to see how much more frequently she's getting to wrestle in Japan, compared to her work on the the UK/US indy scene.

www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=22788&page=4

The combination of the pandemic & the me too related matters forever changed everything.

Not really seeing the me too connection. Covid yes that was a big problem.

A bigger problem was the scene went from several women only indy promotions to basically 0, and a lot of those had died off or were in the process of dying before Covid even hit. Some of it was a kind of "mission accomplished" feeling people got after NXT really starting getting going in terms of women's wrestling. I also think the death of dvds as the main of wrestling media fans could purchase really hurt Indy business as well , streaming just isn't great financially for indy shows imo.

Indy wrestling for sure now needs gate more than ever. Streaming is great cash, but for the owners of the streaming service not the ones providing content.

Mar 26, 2023 5:23:13 GMT c said:

Indy wrestling for sure now needs gate more than ever. Streaming is great cash, but for the owners of the streaming service not the ones providing content.

Exactly I'm guessing Indies like Shimmer got much more from fans buying multiple dvds of  different shows, than  a if we're being honest a small number of fans subscribing for a small monthly rate to a streaming service.



There's also the fact that a lot of modern women's wrestling fans especially those online seem to be of the type that talk about how important it is to support women's wrestling one second, and then ask for for a link to a free stream/torrent of a show the next. 

That's a good point about DVDs. Makes me wonder if Shimmer has released all their events to DVD by now. Seemed like they were always a year behind production LULZ.

I think a lot of fans think just being interested is enough to support the feds, but it probably isn't. Those 15-20/a pop releases were expensive but probably the only way the model works. Always wanted a "wrestling channel" where everyone came together, but it probably doesn't amount to much revenue overall and certainly nothing for the workers.