So there's a case to be made that Kurt is the GOAT of the 2000s. Before Brock and a lesser extent Sheamus and others started having full careers of accomplishments in a calendar year... Kurt was the blueprint in a way. Undefeated streak, several midcard titles at once (D'Lo does NOT count!), KOTR victory when that was still a relevant feather in the cap and then a WWF title victory all during his Year One. And let's not ignore that it was 1. Over the Rock 2. During Austin's comeback event and 3. during the Attitude Era's most profitable and exposed year. That's a pretty big deal.

Kurt really did have it all. Great in the ring, I think most criticisms of King Kurt do not reflect this aspect UNLESS you were one of those guys that thought he should've hung it up pre-shoestring neck. But doesn't that also put him over even more? Because winning a gold medal with a broken freakin' neck was not lightning in a bottle. That's just Kurt in BEAST MODE. And sure once he hit TNA he was on drugs and endless recreating his 2 perfect matches depending on the opponent... but fuck isn't that what became WWE style after a while? He was ahead of the curve.

On the mic there's no doubt he was able to tick a ton of boxes. Willing to make himself look silly to fulfill that character's nature order... intensity... face and heel both always felt natural and just reached that level of legend where "you suck" meant acceptance. Everyone loved that real cowboy stuff with Austin, his use of talking down to pro sports teams was the stuff of legend... he made it work when it's usually cringe because Kurt didn't need it... he wasn't a dullard worker, he was a sports entertainer.

And yet WWE never really got behind him long term. His 2000 run was classic Honkey Tonk for a new generation, but he didn't get to Mania with the belt as you'd think would be the color by the numbers end to his run. His 2001 was kinda all over the place, lost the belt early in the year... then babyface'd and defeated Austin likely cuz of 9/11... was gonna win the Undisputed title but they opted to make a new star out of Jericho. It didn't work and the reveal of it being Angle makes the Steph stuff make so much more sense. And it probably would've worked with Kurt's goofy timing. Since he already had cred as a main eventer maybe it wouldn't have been so disliked.

Sure he won it again at the end of 2002 and got the belt big gold on Smackdown, but these were always very background/not THE GUY transitional reigns to guys who they thought were gonna be. Maybe Kurt perfected the "not the guy but next level down consistency". I dunno I always felt he should've been a bigger deal than he was despite everything he did and accomplished. Was he less marketable enough? Did the presentation not allow for him to shine in that way?

I know people clown on it now, but I remember there being such PRESS for the WM21 match. Like they had THE INDUSTRY (not the @ one) putting it over hard. People soured on it for whatever reasons. Yes Shawn lasting in the lock forever, but it also just made it a BATTLE. Who doesn't love that toss into the post? Was it meant to be an angle slam into it? Anyways not like when they went to Angle Slam/Lock? Though it did lead to a great... Marty Jannetty, still can't walk!

When he was first available in a wrestling game, he was my most hyped to play as. Saw a screen online or in a mag of him doing that move where you grab one leg and kinda elbow around the knee. You know what I'm talking about? That was the image they promoted his appearance with. Lame ass shit and yet I wanted ALL OF IT. Hated how in No Mercy you couldn't edit (I think) characters movesets so I made a CAW Kurt so he had the Ankle Lock.

Did Kurt make anybody? Feel like his association helped Edge branch out as a single until Cena and Taker approved of him as a main.

If 🤯 was around he'd put over Kurt as being part of (his opinion, might be yours too) the goat triple threat. Kurt probably would've had a claim for one of the great cage matches but benoit gonna benoit. Member how Kurt STOLE his germans. Not just germans, but ROLLING. Same company and he literally plagiarizing his shit. Member how the KLIQ tried to "take back" the crossface? Kurt was doing that ish when motherfucker was alive and literally having matches with him. Kurt/Danielson, in 2006... feels like one of those dream matches that might've not sucked. Then again was he having bangers at this time? Fucking TNA deserves LOL TNA for robbing us of that.

The white shoes is like his only blemish.

So the long and short of it, Kurt did some things. Maybe it helps that he was the first real star I got to see grow from debut to where he ended up when I first became a fan. Felt like his rise was perfect. Not too quick, but not prolonging the inevitable. Never on top fully so maybe he lacked something. Kurt is that dude and I will not sit here idly by as people casually name drop him. Nah son, Kurt demands all that RESPKT.

Side note, couldn't they have kinda used the Shooting Star Botch as the finish? Like the video makes it seem like almost a headbutt, which is strangely 1000x more manly than a teehee splash. Obviously Kurt just rolled but doesn't it almost look like it's not a botch? I'm just saying.

Point is in the post-Attitude/Whatever we're at era... our boy held it down. It's a HHH aura where you could argue it's because no one else wanted him... but wrestling was better for having him involved is all I'm saying.

Pizza commercials, contract in 96, triggered over the ecw cross, booger in his nose for title win, CONCUSSED and was infmaous in those DON'T TRY THIS AT OUT. - I'm doing it again. Do we want a Kurt ONLY TABLE reading? Because I'll do it. Just try me!

Sing his praises.

My Dad was a fan of Kurt. But he wasn't "in" wrestling like his kids were so he wasn't watching things bell to bell, but Kurt was either the only modern guy that connected with him or he was just the only guy I could see was an ass planter.

My Mom I dunno how she felt about Kurt but I know she laughed her ass off when Kurt was bloodied, Ankle Lock (I was typed ANGLE... they got me boyos) and either did the HHH mist or spit before wooing in the perfect camera shot. People really loved that Summerslam match didn't they? Feud with Benoit in 2001 culminating with that cage match... face turn to help WWE, wins the belt... turns heel in a cool way where he (I think) threatened Rock that he'd do it for free to him... was gonna win the title vengeance. For as awesome as Austin's 2001 was, if Kurt won the belt he was a real contender for worker of that year I'm telling ya.

I've only seen WM19 once (the main, not the show I've seen matches a lot... I redownloaded that bitch off limewire all the time) but I really enjoyed the Kurt/Brock match. But I don't think people much talk about their work together. Cept the IM for reasons. I once wrote about it in my first year something english comp class. Talking about hope this class ends soon so I can watch it - what a fucking mark.

Kurt is weird because he was never a favorite or my guy... yet looking back he had everything the guys I claimed did AND more. All those "types" of guys Eddie Benoit Jericho Danielson etc... it feels like Kurt was everything they were AND MORE.

I wouldn't say I was "upset" but I must've been mad when Kurt won the belt from Rock (the start and stop momentum of changing belts with HHH) as my Dad taunted me with the logic behind it. And yet when I used the same logic when we played Super Smash Bros. he called me a [redacted] for having no honor. Cornette's got nothing on our family's weird code of honor for SSB. I just have MEMORIES of Kurt. FIRST PAGE IN NO MERCY.

Kurt is a contender for GOAT. Even if I have to do the heavy lifting.

I'm not no selling this Ness . Just waiting until I have time to give our Olympic Hero the proper writeup he deserves.

When I was in 9th maybe 10th grade they had two dudes cosplay as Kurt and the Rock. Yeah it was a whole production during a gym pep rally. Honestly maybe it was the venue, but it came off so big league I couldn't understand it. Like Rock was doing his thing and then I guess based on real life locker room drama the "Kurt" was merely the guy who won whatever wrestling thing. He ended so spectacularly by reminding Rock nobody remembers second place and then got Rockbottom'd through a table because sore loser.

Damn, Ness has just thrown down the gauntlet and made it clear that he's the #1 Kurt Angle fan and the rest of you are all posers.

English essays on an American hero, did anyone even have the cajones to stand in front of the class and talk wrestling? That my friend is the three Is right there.

Oh it's true, it's damn true.

Absolutely one of the GOATs.

A 10 in the ring, a 10 on the mic, excellent as a heel, excellent as a face - he could seriously do it all!

Him vs Shawn (another GOAT) at Vengeance 2005 is one of my fav matches ever!

Kurt was the product of right place, right time. The WWF had lost Austin, Taker and were going to lose Foley so they needed to act fast. Vince took a fancy to the Olympic Gold Medalist and he just happened to hire Gerwitz who was the perfect fit for him. The straight laced oblivious heel was right in Gerwitz wheelhouse and Kurt's promos were gold.

Then giving the Stephanie McMahon character a crush on Kurt was what set it over the edge. That was one of those details they allowed to play out naturally and it created this intrigue around all three characters. Who knows how different things would have been if HHH didn't kabosh it at Unforgiven 2000.

That loss knocked the wind out of Kurt's eventual title run which never really got going. However, the responsibility certainly made Kurt a better performer, so when they put him back with Benoit, they elevated the in-ring standard back to where Bret-Shawn-Owen etc. had it.

Kurt was excellent from 2001-04 until his neck eventually gave way. On return it seemed like he got complacent and had to be in the ring with a veteran to pace his stuff out. Not that he wanted to hear any of it, both he and Eddie had a fight backstage over a disagreement in the ring. I'd like to think as punishment, Kurt got put on Big Show duties until Wrestlemania rolled around. Then for whatever reason they started to phase his character out. He got one last emergency run with the title when Batista got injured but really he felt like the third wheel for what was originally going to be a Randy Orton-Batista match at Mania.

I think it had to do with his drug problems. Vince trusted him enough to work with the champion, but didn't trust him enough to carry the show anymore.

So Kurt left and hit the head-butt seen around the world. Kurt had some awesome matches in TNA but you can only work AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, Jeff Jarrett, Christian Cage etc. so many times. In another era, Kurt would have had a two year stint, gone to a different territory and continue to build his legacy. Instead he's stuck in TNA, putting on these classic matches that fans completely skipped out on because the booking was so horrendously bad.

Still, one of the best I've ever seen and I'd have no qualms calling him THE wrestler of the 00s.

Apr 4, 2023 17:00:12 GMT Big Pete said:

I think it had to do with his drug problems. Vince trusted him enough to work with the champion, but didn't trust him enough to carry the show anymore.

I think Vince still trusted him enough to be one of the guys to carry the new ECW brand at least. Apart from Kurt, RVD and Big Show (who no one cared about by this point), that early roster was just full of has-beens and total nobodies. If anyone was watching, it was for Angle (the undisputed biggest star on the show), RVD (one of the coolest wrestlers at the time) or just pure nostalgia for a dead promotion.

Kurt got the mostly-black singlet, the more serious/violent style and even got his entrance music remixed to remove the "you suck" part. He didn't suck - he was a WRESTLING MACHINE. He looked like an absolute killer for a few weeks (especially when he was murdering Justin Credible).

I really think the first "big" feud on ECW would have been RVD vs Angle. Or it could have come after RVD/Show at least. Who else would RVD have feuded with? Tony Mamaluke?!

RVD got the feel-good title win at ONS 2006 and I expected Kurt to have been next in line for a title run (probably as a heel). RVD and Kurt teamed together once on ECW, then had a title match the next week. RVD won that clean. I'm not sure why they felt the need to have the biggest possible match on the brand on the third episode of the weekly TV show, but OK!

The week after that, Angle was gone, RVD was suspended and Big Show was ECW champion.

The ECW brand just had bad luck right from the start. It was obviously meant to be built around RVD and Angle (with Big Show there to get pinned in triple threat matches), but they both liked drugs too much. Then Lashley was the focal point, but no one cared. Then Benoit was clearly going to be "the guy". Then Johnny Nitro suddenly got thrust into the top spot, but he also liked drugs.

And that was all in the space of a year!

I wonder how ECW would have turned out if things didn't go the way they did with Angle and RVD.

Apr 4, 2023 17:28:19 GMT @papaya said:

Apr 4, 2023 17:00:12 GMT Big Pete said:

I think it had to do with his drug problems. Vince trusted him enough to work with the champion, but didn't trust him enough to carry the show anymore.

I think Vince still trusted him enough to be one of the guys to carry the new ECW brand at least. Apart from Kurt, RVD and Big Show (who no one cared about by this point), that early roster was just full of has-beens and total nobodies. If anyone was watching, it was for Angle (the undisputed biggest star on the show), RVD (one of the coolest wrestlers at the time) or just pure nostalgia for a dead promotion.

Kurt got the mostly-black singlet, the more serious/violent style and even got his entrance music remixed to remove the "you suck" part. He didn't suck - he was a WRESTLING MACHINE. He looked like an absolute killer for a few weeks (especially when he was murdering Justin Credible).

I really think the first "big" feud on ECW would have been RVD vs Angle. Or it could have come after RVD/Show at least. Who else would RVD have feuded with? Tony Mamaluke?!

RVD got the feel-good title win at ONS 2006 and I expected Kurt to have been next in line for a title run (probably as a heel). RVD and Kurt teamed together once on ECW, then had a title match the next week. RVD won that clean. I'm not sure why they felt the need to have the biggest possible match on the brand on the third episode of the weekly TV show, but OK!

The week after that, Angle was gone, RVD was suspended and Big Show was ECW champion.

The ECW brand just had bad luck right from the start. It was obviously meant to be built around RVD and Angle (with Big Show there to get pinned in triple threat matches), but they both liked drugs too much. Then Lashley was the focal point, but no one cared. Then Benoit was clearly going to be "the guy". Then Johnny Nitro suddenly got thrust into the top spot, but he also liked drugs.

And that was all in the space of a year!

I wonder how ECW would have turned out if things didn't go the way they did with Angle and RVD.

I think you're right, I also think Paul E was a huge fan of both Big Show and Kurt Angle and made a big pitch to bring them over. I could see the whole wrestle machine with the mouth guard being his vision and a 00s update on the Taz gimmick.

I still think if Vince valued Kurt, he would have remained on RAW or SmackDown. You didn't see HHH or The Undertaker being drafted to ECW!

Apr 4, 2023 18:40:03 GMT Big Pete said:

I still think if Vince valued Kurt, he would have remained on RAW or SmackDown. You didn't see HHH or The Undertaker being drafted to ECW!

I'm sure Heyman would have liked that, but he knew...

Apr 1, 2023 23:42:32 GMT Ness said:

So there's a case to be made that Kurt is the GOAT of the 2000s. 

Apr 4, 2023 16:56:41 GMT Big Pete said:

Still, one of the best I've ever seen and I'd have no qualms calling him THE wrestler of the 00s.

Wrestling Observer readers thought so as well. They voted Angle Wrestler of the 2000s. I would have too.

Apr 4, 2023 2:07:44 GMT Ness said:

When I was in 9th maybe 10th grade they had two dudes cosplay as Kurt and the Rock. Yeah it was a whole production during a gym pep rally. Honestly maybe it was the venue, but it came off so big league I couldn't understand it. Like Rock was doing his thing and then I guess based on real life locker room drama the "Kurt" was merely the guy who won whatever wrestling thing. He ended so spectacularly by reminding Rock nobody remembers second place and then got Rockbottom'd through a table because sore loser.

This story never gets old. Even smokes my story about our principal announcing the immediate suspension of any student caught procuring the Crossface Chickenwing. 

Thread title reminds me of that time Angle called JBL "Bucko" and The Wrestling God came up with a story on the fly where they called him Bucko as a child and he hated it and implored the audience not to call him Bucko and of course they chanted Bucko at him and it was all so great. The WWE Universe of a few years earlier would have ran with that and Bucko would be to JBL as You Suck was to Angle. 

Have to say Wrestling Machine Angle was my least favorite WWE Angle tho. It was still fine enough mind you because Kurt in WWE could do no wrong. But it wasn't the best use of his talents. Why limit Angle to being a SRS BUSINESS wrestler? That would be like having Babe Ruth on your roster and using him only as a relief pitcher. 

*Much of this post was written under the influence. I am such a lightweight nowadays!

WWF booking early Angle as a goofy, milk-loving dork during the height of the Attitude Era was a stroke of genius and here's why...

In any other era being Olympic Gold Medalist would be enough. During the decades preceding the AE it would have made him an automatically over babyface. In the years following the AE it would have given him all the credibility in the world. But the AE was a different animal. You needed a hook. You needed to sports entertain.

Not gonna lie. I wasn't exactly over the moon when I read about Angle in developmental. All I could think was this guy is going to be another Brad Rheingans/Dan Severn type who is going to be overpushed because real life credentials. So once I got where they were going with Kurt (it did take 2 or 3 vignettes) I thought it was brilliant. It subverted my expectations. So while not technically Day One on Kurt, I did come around mighty early.

His push that first year was perfectly done. He WAS pushed to the moon. Basically speed ran his way to the top of the roster in 11 months. But it didn't FEEL like an overpush because he did have setbacks. Lost his undefeated streak early in a borderline squash to the debuting Taz. Won and lost the Eurocontinental Titles quickly. Lost convincingly to Big Show in a comedy match. Won KOTR. But then got his ass handed to him by Taker at the next PPV. Tbh I'd have been fine with Kurt winning the title at Summerslam. Heck, I WANTED him to win the title at Summerslam. And maybe he should have? Would have given his September PPV match with HHH even more stakes. The Survivor Series and Armageddon matches had brilliant layouts with Kurt playing his HTM part to perfection. He was a natural. Few, if any, have ever adapted so quickly. One year in the business and he's already the best sports entertainer in it. It's true. It's true.

You have to understand this is during the period when I was all about PAYING YOUR DUES. My ideal champ was somebody like Foley, Bret, or Michaels who EARNED it by working their way up the ladder. Nowadays I couldn't care less. WWE could strap up Logan Paul or Pat Mac tomorrow and I'd be totally cool with it. But back then I was much more picky. Didn't mind with Kurt though. He was that darn good. 

Let's compare Kurt with Brock. HATED the Brock superpush. That one did feel forced. He was too overpowered. Beat top AE tag team the Hardys singlehandedly...twice. Won KOTR. Beat my boy RVD a few times. Beat Rock for the title at Summerslam a mere 5 months into his career. Then beat Taker in Hell In A Cell. Now THAT is an overpush. And he did all this with a 0/10 in Sports Entertainment. It was just BROCK SMASH. The worst!

Angle had an unprecedented "Favorite Wrestler" run with me. You've all seen the tables. #1 from 00-02 and #2 from 03-06. But that first year is my favorite of them all. Peak Angle. Which is pretty much the peak of the peak. His comedy stuff was gold. The HTM style title run also gold. Loved all his catchphrases. At some point (think it was right here on PW) I realized Kurt was basically Owen Hart with an extended main event push. Think about it. Both guys could do serious and comedic, vicious or goofy, while always being smooth as silk in the ring. Owen was already one of my all time favorites and Angle was well on his way to joining him.

I'm a firm believer in having that one guy who is the opposite of everything else you're pushing. Crazy old man Mr. Backlund from the Before Times wreaking havoc in the New Generation. Samoa Joe stood out in ROH because he was 50 pounds heavier than everyone else in an unofficial Cruiserweight promotion. Corino as the anti-hardcore crusader in ECW. Toru Yano as a sports entertaining goofball in hyper athletic 2010s New Japan. Perhaps controversial, but Sting was the prototypical "WWF Guy" in NWA/WCW. WWF had wholesome, virginal, milk loving nerd Kurt Angle in the raunchy, beer bathed Attitude Era where everybody else is trying to be Joe Cool. It was brilliant. 

2001 saw him grow leaps and bounds as an in ring performer while still maintaining the comedy gold (those Austin segments are legendary for a reason). I honestly underrated Angle as a wrestler in real time 2000. He was already good at the in ring stuff. He was just good in ways I had kind of forgotten how to appreciate. To explain what I mean would take a long time and be filled with nuances I don't really feel like going into right now. Just know that 2001 saw him grow into the more common definition of "good wrestler." Now he was having Meltzer/Keith approved bangers all over the place with guys like Shane, Benoit, Austin, etc.

He was my WWE (and thereby wrestling) MVP in 2002. Best all arounder in the company. Best all arounder in wrestling. Brought star power to the Smackdown Six. Ness asked if Angle ever made anybody. I don't think he did on the level of a Foley or a Flair, but he certainly helped a whole lot of guys like Edge, Rey, Cena, WGTT by association, even Benoit. In 02 he gave Edge a major boost. But Rey is the one I really want to focus on right now. When WWE signed Rey I assumed he'd end up as Taka 2.0. WWE would make him the ace of the Cruiserweight division. They'd push both for 6 months before getting bored. But when Rey started going toe to toe with Angle in great matches*, even beating our Olympic Hero a time or two, I was like "hmm....WWE might really have something here." 21 years later Rey is still going strong. 

*One of my favorite things about Smackdown was the way they'd trot out a random Angle/Rey match every 6 months or so. Those two had great chemistry. Angle is my favorite WWE Rey opponent. He's my favorite Benoit opponent as well. Royal Rumble 2003 was an ROH match in WWE. When had WWE fans ever given a match a standing ovation before? I've heard rumors of a Backlund/Patera match from 1980, but never seen it with my own eyes.

Then injuries hit and Angle leaned a little more into the srs wrestler stuff rather than the comedic goofball who could go. He was still great whenever he was around though. My favorite Angle/Brock match is the forgotten one- Summerslam 03. LOVE Angle as the never say babyface fighting through the odds against the ever hateable Brock. Love the Eddie match at 20. I was in the building for the 2003 No Mercy match with Cena. Remember turning to my friend Boo and saying "John Cena is gonna be a main eventer real soon." There was no denying it anymore. Angle deserves some credit for that. 

The build to Michaels at WM 21 saw Angle at his best with great comedy stuff and a TV MOTYC with a fresh outta the mothballs Marty Jannetty. WM 21 had a hundred people at a sports bar including myself marking out and hanging on every nearfall. You could say that match is responsible for a lot of things I hate about modern wrestling and you'd be right. But it's like that old DVDVR argument- "do we hate Guerrero & Malenko now just because hundreds of ham and eggers jacked their sequence?" I don't. And I don't think you should either. It's not their fault they came up with a cool thing that every hack and their brother stole. They cracked the code and launched a thousand hacks relying on up up down down left right left right b a start to get by. 

Undertaker is another legend who had some of his best matches with Kurt. Kurt is at least partially responsible for MMATaker. Angle winning a Battle Royal for the vacant Smackdown Championship in early 2006 was one of my last genuine markout moments. 

Best thing about the PW Torch site was every year they'd do a reader submitted Top 10 draft thingamajig. Angle was my #1 pick for so many years in a row I lost count. My only regret about his WWE career was he never got that one 6 month+ Best In The World style Championship run. Off the top of my head I have him down as a 5x champ who only held the title for about 10 months in total. 

I was shocked and gutted upon hearing the news Angle had left WWE. Never saw it coming. Heard the Perc Angle rumors for years but never thought it would come to this. I had Angle down as a WWE lifer. BUT it had me more hyped for TNA than I had been in years. Angle/Joe was the business for a minute there. I really like their first two matches. Then the Curse of TNA struck and I soon lost interest even in my beloved Olympic Hero. 

But, yeah, best wrestler of the 2000s. It's true. It's damn true. 

I remember being really pissed when they turned him heel into the Alliance to be the mole but obviously stayed heel after that. He was a beast as a face at that point.

I love that "real life credentials" basically translates to wore a singlet at some point in time.

He dresses like a collegiate athlete, he's LEGIT!!!

Oh yeah and I sometimes forget how good that first Rey match was at Summerslam, always a go-to opener for me. I think some people have said it's overrated though.

Anyone who says it’s overrated is a clown.

*Look, I'm on vacation this week and my stupid car is in the shop, meaning I have nothing better to do than spam PW with lengthy storytimes I'd been sitting on for ages.

Bringing up Lisa and Boyfriend the other day reminded me of an addendum I meant to add to my previous Angle post last month. While Angle did get to the point of being practically unbooable,* that wasn't the case early in his run. Kurt was a heat magnet early on. Never forget people were ready to cheer 2000 Triple H over Kurt Angle! And in this post I will provide three examples of anecdotal evidence "proving" people genuinely hated early 2000s Kurt Angle...

*There's a pretty famous Angle promo on a 2005 Raw where he resorts to every cheap heat tactic in the book to get booed. It still doesn't work.

1. Pretty sure this took place on 4/18/00- one day after Angle's abstinence promo at Penn State. I was at work holding court with my subjects, talking Raw as was the style at the time. It wasn't long before I professed my love for Kurt Angle, as was also the style at the time, when the cute, newish Rock-loving girl I hit it off with right away who would soon be dating my friend Will (if she wasn't already), and whose house served as our primary PPV destination from 00-02, grabbed me by the shoulders, looked me straight in the eyes, and said something like "(Baker), honey. WHY Kurt Angle? HOW can you like Kurt Angle? Of all the wrestlers, why HIM? I'm worried about you, buddy." She didn't say this in the usual "lol your guy sucks" manner of an argumentative wrestling fan. There was genuine concern in both her eyes and her voice. Like she was sincerely worried about me as if I had strayed too far from the path of normalcy in liking Kurt Angle. She was a sweet girl, bless her heart, but she hadn't yet come to fully understand my ways....what made me tick. We got along famously, but in all honesty I don't think she ever did fully comprehend my ways lol. So unlike with Lisa in the Bisexual Nikoichi story I didn't push it this time. They were completely different people with completely different personalities. But I did very calmly, very gently explain to her why Kurt Angle was...

NUMBER ONE AND THE BEST~! She did eventually come around to appreciate Kurt, but I don't recall him ever being a top tier favorite of hers. 

2. Lisa and Boyfriend return for Round Two. This was some time in 2001. Almost certainly later in the year. May very well have even been the same show which saw Lisa unintentionally bury RVD. Only this time it's Boyfriend intentionally giving one of my wrestling heroes the business. Now as I mentioned in that previous post the boyfriend wasn't necessarily a wrestling fan per se, but he was exposed to it just by being a teenaged American Male during the late 90s-early 00s. And he had a bone to pick with Kurt Angle. Or more specifically the way WWF portrayed Kurt Angle. Now keep in mind he was pretty much the nicest, most polite guy ever. He was able to win over four, maybe five extremely jealous guys all overflowing with testosterone simply by being such a good-natured bloke. So his argument went something like "Excuse me, my good sir. With all due respect, do you not find it disrespectful the way they portray an Olympic Gold Medalist and bona fide American Hero as a wimpy, cheating buffoon? Tha...that....that's messed up! Please pardon my French. And sorry if I offended you in any way, my good sir, but that's the way I feel." After assuring him I was not offended (as if!) I countered politely with basically a dumbed down version of what I wrote in Paragraphs 2-4 in my previous post here. To his credit, he did not budge from his anti-Angle('s booking) stance. The way WWF portrayed Angle genuinely upset him. And he wasn't even really a wrestling fan!

3. This one relates to my friend Bryan and we're once again back in late 2001. This guy had been a wrestling hating weirdo who totally no sold the Golden Age and Attitude Era growing up only to finally become a fan in late 2001. Who does that?!? Obviously I was the driving force in him finally become a fan. You're welcome, Vince. Undertaker was his favorite. He knew about Taker even before becoming a full-fledged fan due to pop culture osmosis. Bryan's real life persona was "dark, spooky guy" just like Taker's kayfabe persona. So it was a true match made in hell. Bryan quickly became a big Raven fan as well. But he HATED Kurt Angle. And Bryan was unlike Boyfriend in that he was rude and argumentative by nature so when he didn't like something he REALLY hated it and he would let you know he really hated it.

What happened next is one of my big regrets as a wrestling fan. I should have left well enough alone. But NO! I just HAD to be Mr. Smarky Pants. Hah! More like Mr. STUPID Pants! So I explained to Bryan the intricacies of pro wrestling, how faces and heels worked, how some wrestlers were "better" than others, how Angle's ability to get under Bryan's skin was ackshually proof of Kurt Angle's greatness, and that's why he should become fan of Kurt's. Bryan, unlike Will's Girlfriend and Lisa's Boyfriend (I don't want to drop too many shoot names in case one of you creeps gets it into your head to look these people up), took my arguments to heart and soon did a 180 on our Olympic Hero. Again, I don't recall Kurt ever being a tippy top tier favorite of Bryan's, but he definitely was a Kurt Angle fan.

Nowadays I hate myself for this. I recently responded to a Big Pete post about what went wrong with my generation with "We failed. I failed." This is one of those cases. Here we have this noob reacting the right way only to have me, an idiot, "correct" him. Hah! "Correct" my foot! What I really did here was contribute one cut to a business that suffered the death of a thousand cuts. I am so, so sorry for contributing to killing the business I once so loved.

*There you have it. Three examples of Kurt Angle having genuine heat from three different people I knew irl.

"Talking Raw as was the style at the time"

Can relate, it's a very jarring moment when you continue this and realize it is in fact no longer the style.