So rather than rambling excessively over other threads, here are some thoughts about being an overly fat bastard and my efforts to be less so.

Foos recommended maybe another thread.

Shout out to  Gyro LC, who suggested the book... Hey Presto by Penn Jilette.
It was an interesting read, knocked it over in two evenings... Like most single topic book I read, it is a page full of information with a bunch of folksy stories wrapped around it. Most of the stories added little to the topic, but Penn seems like a fun guy with a critical mind and I think we could be friends...
But he is a professional edge lord c, I mean okay you're an atheist, but I think I could write a book on diet without mentioning Christianity as many times as he weaves his atheism into stories (often a long tangent out from his actual point), that and the various sexual comments I am sure are there just as red meat to his fan base... I am sure much of it done by ghost writers.

Anyway, he was fat and got sick.
Rather than gastric sleeve surgery he wanted to try and shift the weight himself and gave himself a 3-month deadline.
He ran into a guy called Ray Cronise who had a pretty extreme diet plan.
He ate nothing but cooked potato's for two weeks, no salt, no butter, no oil, nothing but cooked potato.
After that he went to a plant only diet and stuck to vegetables only, no seasoning, no oil, nothing else until he hit his goal weight.
It is pretty much a water fast with some roughage to quell the hunger pangs I guess.

The idea is that much of what we believe is hunger is just our bodies craving fat, salt and sugar, which we are eating at too high levels and it is killing us.
Apparently, the potato thing is a reset to get your tastebuds and senses used to no salt, sugar etc. to break the cravings.
He also advocates no exercise while losing weight rapidly as it tends to signal the body to build muscle instead of losing fat.
The eventual goal when you are on a maintenance diet is to be predominantly plant based.

This is obviously crazy and extreme... And likely dangerous.... So I of course, was 100% on board.
I am going away with my wife and girls next week for the school holidays and I didn't see a point in starting and then stopping the potato thing...
So I have just gone plant based, today I had two meals of just roasted vegetables with noting else and no seasoning or oil.

Let's see how I go, I was 113.5ish kg this morning, that's more or less 250lb for anyone who requires numbers translated into retard by a fat bastard.

I forgot to add that I'm also trying to do time restricted eating, I'm trying to eat in a 7hr window then fast for 17hrs.
My black coffee and green tea don't count, so I will have that right through.

Penn is a radical atheist which is why I gave the warning about it. Radical atheists tend not to be able to go too long without bringing it up.

Most diets have some level of danger to them. You will lack some vitamins if you do no meat, so figure out a way to replace them. But potato or no meat cannot be more dangerous than things like intermittent fasting or keto that trade one risk for another they are silent about.

Yeah, like I said, I wasn't offended and with most things he has an interesting take, if he had something interesting to say about atheism that would have interested me too... Even if it is a bit pointless in a diet book.

Most radical atheism is the same arguments made 20 years ago just rehash ad nauseum. Sagan had some interesting takes in Demon Haunted World, particularly a part on how the old visions of angels over time became visions of aliens.

So potato diet, is that just like one potato per meal, irish famine style?

It is meant to be just potatoes and nothing else for two weeks, then you start introducing other vegetables, but I'm not doing it that way.

What is to stop you from gaining all the weight back after two weeks when you stop?

///

Likely I am going to do weight loss mode soon to to deal with antipsychotic induced metabolic syndrome.  My plan is bran breakfast, liquid lunch and low cal dinner.  Should be able to keep it under 1200 cals.  Need to work out the meals and get info from my extreme weight loss buddy.  And well, wait get used to the meds I am on now and lock them in for long term.

I still recommend that electric mountain bike. Get out, and get active.

Apr 11, 2023 13:37:07 GMT c said:

What is to stop you from gaining all the weight back after two weeks when you stop?

///

Likely I am going to do weight loss mode soon to to deal with antipsychotic induced metabolic syndrome.  My plan is bran breakfast, liquid lunch and low cal dinner.  Should be able to keep it under 1200 cals.  Need to work out the meals and get info from my extreme weight loss buddy.  And well, wait get used to the meds I am on now and lock them in for long term.

Last time I crazy dieted I did 800 calories per day, I lost 23kg that time.
Most people who say they can't lose weight, it's because they don't count calories correctly, I did it right down to olive oil and sauces.
This time... No olive oil or sauces

Apr 11, 2023 20:38:40 GMT NATH45 said:

I still recommend that electric mountain bike. Get out, and get active.

I agree health-wise, but exercise is pretty useless for fat loss. It's infinitely better to not eat the calories than eating them and trying to burn them off afterwards.

Do both.

Apr 11, 2023 11:43:38 GMT c said:

Penn is a radical atheist which is why I gave the warning about it. Radical atheists tend not to be able to go too long without bringing it up.

Most diets have some level of danger to them. You will lack some vitamins if you do no meat, so figure out a way to replace them. But potato or no meat cannot be more dangerous than things like intermittent fasting or keto that trade one risk for another they are silent about.

What dangers are there for intermittent fasting?

I, personally, am doing the 16:8 (which ends up being more like 17:7 or 16:6 in practice) where I eat between 1p-9p. Skip breakfast, late lunch and stop eating after dinner.

I guess I can see issues with the don't eat anything for two days straight or whatever those fasts are but for me, I'm figuring I'm still getting all the nutrients I need and skipping midnight snacks.

Mainly blood sugar falling leading to car accidents or falls.

Believe I saw the last I looked into this 12:12 was safe, but as you move to 16:6 or 18:4 things get rough on the gallbladder leading to stones and increasing the risk of needing it removed. When you fast I guess the bile sits in the gallbladder and starts to harden until over time it becomes a stone. Too many stones and they rip the gallbladder apart until it gets infected. The counter is to use lower calorie meal replacement drinks for the skipped meals to then get the gallbladder to dump the bile.

If you do not make sure to stay hydrated as it will also give you kidney stones if you done. A lot of people when they fast also tend to dehydrate, which is where the rapid weight loss comes from. If you just set a water goal this is a non-factor.

But dig through this yourself just in case. Fairly sure as a snack limiter this is great, but a liquid meal during the long fast likely will make it a lot safer for long term use, while adding very little calories overall.

Apr 11, 2023 23:34:31 GMT iNCY said:

Apr 11, 2023 13:37:07 GMT c said:

What is to stop you from gaining all the weight back after two weeks when you stop?

///

Likely I am going to do weight loss mode soon to to deal with antipsychotic induced metabolic syndrome.  My plan is bran breakfast, liquid lunch and low cal dinner.  Should be able to keep it under 1200 cals.  Need to work out the meals and get info from my extreme weight loss buddy.  And well, wait get used to the meds I am on now and lock them in for long term.

Last time I crazy dieted I did 800 calories per day, I lost 23kg that time.
Most people who say they can't lose weight, it's because they don't count calories correctly, I did it right down to olive oil and sauces.
This time... No olive oil or sauces

800 is extreme.  Def look into what is healthy as cutting too fast and fuck with some organs.  Likely shit you can do to still cut and supplement the dangers.  But do not want to shred weight and find out your liver or kidneys are then fucked up.

When you cut make sure to figure out how much water you should be consuming and try to keep to it.  All I seen on extreme cutting shows the primary danger is dehydration or byproducts from it.

Apr 12, 2023 2:07:29 GMT c said:

Apr 11, 2023 23:34:31 GMT iNCY said:

Last time I crazy dieted I did 800 calories per day, I lost 23kg that time.
Most people who say they can't lose weight, it's because they don't count calories correctly, I did it right down to olive oil and sauces.
This time... No olive oil or sauces

800 is extreme.  Def look into what is healthy as cutting too fast and fuck with some organs.  Likely shit you can do to still cut and supplement the dangers.  But do not want to shred weight and find out your liver or kidneys are then fucked up.

When you cut make sure to figure out how much water you should be consuming and try to keep to it.  All I seen on extreme cutting shows the primary danger is dehydration or byproducts from it.

Most of the recent science is coming back that fasting has few (not zero) health complications.
If your body has fat, it will burn that to supply everything your body needs, it is how we were designed. If you were thin and you did it, then that would be a different story.

Even the old story that fasting causes you to lose fat and muscle is being challenged. It seems the body burns fat first in most scenarios.

Take all fasting research with a grain salt. Most of it has serious flaws in the experimental side. Theories seem solid, but the execution of the studies leaves a lot to be deserved when you look into the details. Also everything is without context as no one has the meta-average of all interventions for dieting yet. Need this to really determine what beats picking at random. But yeah, while it is a bad advice normally for science, I would look at people's stories of fasting more than the science right now.

That said, fasting at face value should work just by eliminating snacking.

As for losing muscle, when I wasted, I most all my fat before my muscles started to burn. Wasting is not much different than extreme fasting. Fat def does not have all you need though so look into a vitamin while in potato land. Gummies are best, and they will prevent vitamin deficiency side effects. Look into the details, this is so outside of my area.

The potato diet for two weeks sounds interesting. Personally I don't know how well I can differentiate between true hunger pangs and salt/sugar/carb cravings. How does one truly know? But man, I'd miss salt.

I work for an Indigenous organization and thus work with a lot of Indigenous peoples. I had never really considered intermittent fasting before. But about 4 years ago a number of my co-workers starring doing it with some positive results. They attributed it to their former ways of life, with their ancestor's being primarily nomadic. Travel. Hunt. Eat. Fast until the next Bison could be slaughtered. Made sense to me so I tried it. Initially did an 8 hour window of eating and now am down to a 6 hour window. I fast from 6pm to noon with only water and herbal tea. c is correct, need to keep properly hydrated during the fasting period. I also take a multivitamin.

I track my weight every Wednesday. During my intermittent fasting I lose about a pound per week until my body seems to settle around 190 (sorry iNCY, Canada has tried but has failed to switch to kilos and cms for weight and height). Post surgery I went up to about 205 due to inactivity and poor eating. Now that I'm back on my intermittent fasting I'm down to 200.6. Looking forward to hitting a weight that begins with a 1 again.

More than anything I want to ditch my 38 inch pants that I only have a couple of pairs of so I can fit back into my 36 inch pants.

I remember my first 38s… ah my 30s.

Apr 12, 2023 14:04:03 GMT Foos said:

More than anything I want to ditch my 38 inch pants that I only have a couple of pairs of so I can fit back into my 36 inch pants.

How tall are you Foos?

I am in a similar predicament, when I lost weight the first time I went from 282lb to 240lb, I threw away all my fat clothes and said never again...
I was pretty jacked then I was lifting weights 6 days a week.
Correction, I had a lot of muscle but still looked like a fat ass.
I don't carry hardly any weight on the lower half of my body, I am like a barrel with big chest and shoulders.

Then my weight crept higher than it is now... To around 260lb and I had to buy new fat pants...
When I got back down to 250lb I was able to buy a couple of pairs of size 38 pants, but I still have a wardrobe full of size 36 and a couple of 34's.


Surprisingly, the fasting part hasn't bothered me so far.
I am going from 7pm to 12pm without eating and only two meals of just plain roast vegetables in the middle.

It sucks being an extreme person, I am either starving myself or not really watching what I eat at all, I have the will to do a crazy diet, just not moderate eating.  
On top of that, I have a really crap metabolism that seems to have stupid numbers where my weight is happy to sit.

My concern for you going all or nothing is you will hurt your body losing weight, only to slowly gain it back. Coming up with some behavioral change you can keep long term will be far safer in the long run.

Snacking is my main issue, but getting stuff for hummus soon and will snack on that with crackers. Can use the fiber. And that ultimately is my diet these days, high fiber. Want off this metformin STAT as it fucking sucks to be on. Only need to drop blood sugar less than point so can do it months with a better diet and no longer be pre-diabetic.

Apr 13, 2023 8:08:58 GMT c said:

My concern for you going all or nothing is you will hurt your body losing weight, only to slowly gain it back. Coming up with some behavioral change you can keep long term will be far safer in the long run.

Snacking is my main issue, but getting stuff for hummus soon and will snack on that with crackers. Can use the fiber. And that ultimately is my diet these days, high fiber. Want off this metformin STAT as it fucking sucks to be on. Only need to drop blood sugar less than point so can do it months with a better diet and no longer be pre-diabetic.

I'm not going to stick at anything for that long, the dopamine wears off whether it is balls to the wall or gentle and easy.
I'm going to ride this hard... Already losing weight... I'm guessing it's 600-700 calories per day.

But really what is the point if just start to regain it after you stop the diet? Means you will have to cycle this again and again. Not so sure that would be a good idea as stuff like this can put stress on organs.

iNCY I'm 5"9. Sounds like we have the opposite physiques. I look like an overweight cyclist. Big powerful thighs, ghetto booty, and stomach. Then a rather slight chest compared to the broadness of my shoulders. Smallish arms. People are shocked when they find out I'm 200 pounds as I apparently do not look it at all.

Apr 13, 2023 13:04:37 GMT iNCY said:

Apr 13, 2023 8:08:58 GMT c said:

My concern for you going all or nothing is you will hurt your body losing weight, only to slowly gain it back. Coming up with some behavioral change you can keep long term will be far safer in the long run.

Snacking is my main issue, but getting stuff for hummus soon and will snack on that with crackers. Can use the fiber. And that ultimately is my diet these days, high fiber. Want off this metformin STAT as it fucking sucks to be on. Only need to drop blood sugar less than point so can do it months with a better diet and no longer be pre-diabetic.

I'm not going to stick at anything for that long, the dopamine wears off whether it is balls to the wall or gentle and easy.
I'm going to ride this hard... Already losing weight... I'm guessing it's 600-700 calories per day.

Apr 13, 2023 16:40:17 GMT c said:

But really what is the point if just start to regain it after you stop the diet? Means you will have to cycle this again and again. Not so sure that would be a good idea as stuff like this can put stress on organs.

+a billion

It's a long worn cliche at this point but it's not a diet, it's a lifestyle change. It's about finding something that's sustainable for (aside from the occasional cheat day or vacation) the rest of your life.

If you're going 'nah, can't keep this up for two years' then it's not going to be an effective diet because (like c) said the moment you're back to normal your normal weight will come back.

Apr 14, 2023 22:14:32 GMT Michinokudriver said:

Apr 13, 2023 13:04:37 GMT iNCY said:

I'm not going to stick at anything for that long, the dopamine wears off whether it is balls to the wall or gentle and easy.
I'm going to ride this hard... Already losing weight... I'm guessing it's 600-700 calories per day.

Apr 13, 2023 16:40:17 GMT c said:

But really what is the point if just start to regain it after you stop the diet? Means you will have to cycle this again and again. Not so sure that would be a good idea as stuff like this can put stress on organs.

+a billion

It's a long worn cliche at this point but it's not a diet, it's a lifestyle change. It's about finding something that's sustainable for (aside from the occasional cheat day or vacation) the rest of your life.

If you're going 'nah, can't keep this up for two years' then it's not going to be an effective diet because (like c) said the moment you're back to normal your normal weight will come back.

With all due respect I really disagree.
There is a large difference between eating a healthy maintenance diet and losing significant weight.
I would expect if people see results they're more likely to stick with things.
Counting calories is something most people mess up, they don't count the oil, the sauces, guess the weights of things etc

Calorie counting is not something you need to be exact with, it is to get a ballpark. As long as you consistently miscount or guess, weight and skipping things does not matter. It is just a method of ballparking a number and reducing it. It is why it is the most effective method while the other fads come and go.

The crash is not bad, it is a good start, but if you crash, then go back to normal, you will just repeat a cycle that may not be healthy keep repeating.  Pancreas and liver will only take so much shit and not thing you want to fuck with too much.

Apr 16, 2023 9:58:26 GMT c said:

Calorie counting is not something you need to be exact with, it is to get a ballpark. As long as you consistently miscount or guess, weight and skipping things does not matter. It is just a method of ballparking a number and reducing it. It is why it is the most effective method while the other fads come and go.

The crash is not bad, it is a good start, but if you crash, then go back to normal, you will just repeat a cycle that may not be healthy keep repeating.  Pancreas and liver will only take so much shit and not thing you want to fuck with too much.

Depends on what you are aiming for with a deficit, I can guarantee the people who say they can't lose weight on a 500-800 calorie deficit are likely in reality breaking even... You really do need to count ALL the calories, at least in the beginning... Until you start to appreciate how many calories are in the olive oil or the ranch dressing... People are seriously stupid when it comes to this stuff.

I'm next level stupid because I know all of this but am still a lard assed bastard.

I'm actually glad you're doing this Incy, if nothing else for the sense of challenge and for science really. We're nearly a week into the experiment, do you have any updates?

Apr 17, 2023 7:25:48 GMT Big Pete said:

I'm actually glad you're doing this Incy, if nothing else for the sense of challenge and for science really. We're nearly a week into the experiment, do you have any updates?

Tomorrow morning will be exactly 7 days so I will give an update then!~

SUSPENSE!

Apr 11, 2023 20:38:40 GMT NATH45 said:

I still recommend that electric mountain bike. Get out, and get active.

I did a 4 mile walk home from the office today on an empty stomach if that counts.

Apr 17, 2023 12:20:54 GMT iNCY said:

Apr 11, 2023 20:38:40 GMT NATH45 said:

I still recommend that electric mountain bike. Get out, and get active.

I did a 4 mile walk home from the office today on an empty stomach if that counts.

Don't undersell it, that's 6.5kms.