How do you feel about them and the whole collective bargaining process? I've been doing some research on it lately and have become minimally involved by becoming a steward and attending some meetings. I've come to the conclusion that it's really destined to fail. Lotta factors that feed off of each other, but I really feel like it's mostly coworker apathy that does us in. I see the union differently now and I just kinda cringe when I hear how people address them. - That right there is a problem because it's not some third party subscription service you turn on and off, it's ongoing and is made up of your peers. If nobody cares and those that do have to pull teeth to get you to be proactive for YOURSELF... yeah no shit it is a struggle to get anything done.

I used to only think they protected bad workers (common thought) but I don't see that anymore. Yes a bad worker is more than likely to *need* them, but it's naiive clown meme to think being a hard worker won't bring you to the same path. The union doesn't get them their job back, WE hold management accountable to the agreement they fucking signed and voted on. They got their job back because the boss thought he didn't have to follow the progressive discipline procedure where you hold everyone to the same standard. It goes all the way to arbitration because they violated the contract. It's not protecting a bad worker (who decides who is?) it's simple checks and balances. It's only "impossible" to get fired because management doesn't wanna do things by the book.

I'm convinced most people don't understand what a union even is. I can easily answer the "gotcha" people throw out for what they do, but they won't like the answer because it's unsexy and it's assumed that all the stuff mentioned is standard. Like I browse a lot of work related subs and it lowkey angers me when I see people begging for a union and here we are absolutely WASTING the one we got. Yeah striking is off the table, but there's so much more to being part of a union than going nuclear. It's like the presidential election, yes it's the marquee one but it's your smaller local ones that actually affect your day-to-day...

Nobody attends meetings, apathetic towards the whole deal which just creates a catch 22 situation. They complain they don't have enough people but don't file grievances when management/other craft employees steal their work. Why would management put forth effort to hire more people at the expense of their bonus if you're getting the job done in spite of it? The math ain't mathin' bruh.

It takes a special kind of person to be a steward and dealing with this. Office is slowly going in a direction I don't like and I have a feeling we're gonna need plenty of union involvement soon enough. Absent of in-house stewards you gotta go up the chain of command and I really think the further away you go the less invested they're gonna be. And who can blame them. If you don't care why should they make it a priority?

Lotta call offs because they never really discipline for it. But what happens when they do? I don't blame people for not wanting to be active in the union, but I do blame people for not being proactive for their own interests. Document interactions with dates and witnesses, get things in writing because there's no such thing as a verbal agreement, make copies of everything you turned in, etc. ETC.

Like it's literally a shocked pikachu face situation when it's time for a investigative interview and they show up empty handed. No notes. No copies of anything. Not even a notebook to take notes. Union is there to assist you, but maybe you should be a LITTLE proactive in your career? Fuck man, it didn't take long for the light of hope to die in my eyes with being involved. Don't save her bruh, she don't wanna be saved. I understand it's a rep's job to educate and inform, but they don't wanna hear it. Imagine showing up to court empty handed.

That was a long-ass tangent. My spirit is broken.

Without diving to much into that rant I think most unions begin with the best of intentions and operate with the best of intentions, in protecting and ensuring and bettering the working conditions of employees. The quality of life we have here, is partly due to the work unions have done to ensure safer working conditions and a liveable wage.

Unions, however attract the worst people. Most delegates I've met or dealt with over of the years, have been former troublesome employees who were recruited due to their mistrust in big business. Most people who have called upon the support of a union delegate have been the worst of the worst people, not bad employees, but bad people. " I'll call the union.. " is the threat, as if that is meant to scare off any performance management or accountability.

@ness maybe you should run for a position in the Union representation and be a change for good?

I don't like Unions, but I see them as a very necessary evil.
Without workers organising people would still work 60 hours a week for minimum wage, there would be little safety and profit would come first second and third.

Where Unions have come unstuck, is like most movements, they achieve their goal and stagnate getting swept up in nonsense.
Most of what Unions fought for is now enshrined in law, now they look for fights to justify their existence.

The very premise of Unions is based in Socialism.
Many people in the unions don't really understand this and what Award agreements are.
Essentially, you chain the worst performing worker to the best one and they are treated and paid the same.
Rather than defending the rights of the work force is creates a lethargy and system that totally chokes and kills industries.

Here in Australia it happened in the automotive industry.
The Manufacturers like Toyota wanted to move any pay increases to a performance based system.
Their logic was simple, a plant in Japan with a similarly paid workforce and factory produced twice as many cars as an Australian plant.
The Unions said no and fought them every step of the way.
In the last decade all automotive manufacturing has closed down in Australia: Ford, GM, Toyota, Mitsubishi and Nissan.
THOUSANDS of jobs lost and a heavy manufacturing industry to never be replaced.
All because the Unions were more interested in an ideological position than actually defending their workers.

For most the Unions are a stepping stone to politics.
Before I get hounded as a conservative, I was a paid up union member for years before I became disillusioned.

I have also trained new hires in a manufacturing plant and seen the shop steward come over and tell them to slow down and cut their performance for the sake of overtime.
And bosses are also shit, perhaps we hope that we have two assholes fighting and we end up somewhere in the middle.

NYC has a rat problem, and wants to “force” businesses and residents to use dumpsters instead of piling bags of trash (that rip, tear, and attract the rats) on the street.

The waste management union is lobbying to block it, because it’ll mean less trashman jobs.

…

This is the problem with unions in the modern era today.

Feb 13, 2024 7:18:54 GMT KJ said:

NYC has a rat problem, and wants to “force” businesses and residents to use dumpsters instead of piling bags of trash (that rip, tear, and attract the rats) on the street.

The waste management union is lobbying to block it, because it’ll mean less trashman jobs.

…

This is the problem with unions in the modern era today.

I saw on the news they had the automatic bin loading trucks in NYC, we have had those in Melbourne for about 20 years.

Looks like unions in the land down under pushed on the government to end the practice of working off the clock via the Right to Disconnect laws which means you can ignore off clock messages from your employer. Same laws are spreading through Europe.

Seems no one wants to work anymore in these countries.

Those laws are for people who have terrible relationships with their employers in white collar roles, those afraid to answer phones and leave their spare rooms during daylight hours.

The majority of other people usually have a decent relationship with their bosses and understand that some communication outside of the traditional business hours is necessary.

It also works both ways. A good leader would expect and should be respectful when receiving some communication from their team outside of the 9-5, it's only fair.

It's being introduced by a terrible government who is rapidly alienating and disengaging the majority of Australians who don't care about this month's dickhead social agenda when they're cleverly ignoring a cost of living and housing crises and failing to deliver on any previous promises they made in the build up to the election.

It's not even 1%er stuff, it's for the 0.01% of people who " ok boomer " their way through life and fail to adult in an adult world.

QLD's crime is out of control, NT has been burning socially for years now.. and half the country is either flooding or on fire half the time. But, I'm glad little Julian or Joshua or whoever who " OMG I can't even " is now ok because a law prevents his employer from talking to him outside of his contracted hours.

I like the idea/principle behind Unions, and agree we have much to thank them for, but now I believe too many people hide behind them and use them for more toxic behavior.

I had a friend who worked for the Canadian Post Office. She filed a grievance against another worker after he slid his hand down the back of her pants. He got suspended with pay and the Union backed him despite numerous complaints about him over his 25 year tenure. They even took up a collection for him to help him out. Meanwhile she became a pariah and had to leave a good paying job with benefits and eventual pension. There is much more to this story but is only one of a bunch I could share.

I'm a union member via my job and there's good and bad:

Good:
1) Protection from termination...unless you get arrested or something as bad as that, you are pretty secure with your position. It takes ALOT to be let go of a city agency job and even then you have protection where you can have a union member speak on your behalf and file a grievance.

2) Dental/Vision coverage from union...I got my wisdom teeth removed and didn't have to pay anything due to this job. Get most coverage from eye doctor outside of a few tests and it's free cleaning for my teeth.

3) Union holidays, at least for me job/union, are pretty good. Get the Jewish holidays, some of the Muslim holidays, Good Friday etc. Those never ever hurt. Not all unions get this though, my manager is in a different union but does not get these days.

Bad:
1) Your pay is set and barring contractual agreements where your pay increases due a collective bargaining agreement, it doesn't matter how good or bad you are at your job, your pay is essentially set. 

2) Union dues which for me adds up to $25 dollars per check as a deduction. Not a massive minus but worth taking note, especially for workers who make less. 

3) Tons of decisions get made without much of your input. For example, it took us a couple of years for the contractual agreement here in NYC to be set for us to work from home. Prior to, we were going in 5x a week while other workers had 2 or sometimes even 3 days WFH. Our union acts pretty slow and again they don't really provide much information. For instance, we had a union rep come in a little less than a year ago and field questions but had no clue what he was talking about when it comes to WFH when we mentioned the Mayor etc. decision on that. It took a few months for us to mercifully get to work from home despite this being etched into the contract a few months prior(The minute the contract is set, we should have worked from home immediately)

Unless it's decisions like parental leave pay coming out of our check or something, the most common person isn't really heard from. Our union does say to us we can attend meetings but the meetings are during my travel out of work and or are far away and it's one of those "If you are highly regarded, you are listened to. If not, well". sort of things from the gist I have gotten in the couple of HQ visits I had in the past.

Union members in the US should really be paying attention to the push to declare the National Labor Relation Board unconstitutional. Gonna lose a lot of legal protections for unions if Musk gets his way in that lawsuit. While the court has ruled it is constitutional many times before, this current court has not, and this current court does not respect precedent. Widely believed should the NLRB be shutdown, businesses will ban unions and fire anyone who remains associated with one.

Throw Amazon and Trader Joes into that mix, it's not just a Musk attack.

Walmart sleeping at the wheel it seems.

Much like the CFPB anything agency that is designed soley to protect the average person is always on borrowed time.

Feb 17, 2024 20:36:56 GMT NATH45 said:

Throw Amazon and Trader Joes into that mix, it's not just a Musk attack.

Musk is the only party to the lawsuit.  The rest just threw in letters of support.  And Musk filed the suit when the safety investigation starting to look into Musk's drug use.  He is hoping to shut them down before they can finalize a report into his drug use at Space X.  NASA made it clear in the past, that if people at Space X are involved in drug use, they would have to severe contracts with the company, which accounts for 40% of their business.  

Trader Joes and Amazon just tagged on to stop unions with letters.  They are not putting money into it.  They have very little to lose if Musk does lose this suit.  Musk however, will be forced out of Space X if he loses this and the investigation finishes.

Feb 14, 2024 23:30:25 GMT NATH45 said:

Those laws are for people who have terrible relationships with their employers in white collar roles, those afraid to answer phones and leave their spare rooms during daylight hours.

The majority of other people usually have a decent relationship with their bosses and understand that some communication outside of the traditional business hours is necessary.

It also works both ways. A good leader would expect and should be respectful when receiving some communication from their team outside of the 9-5, it's only fair.

It's being introduced by a terrible government who is rapidly alienating and disengaging the majority of Australians who don't care about this month's dickhead social agenda when they're cleverly ignoring a cost of living and housing crises and failing to deliver on any previous promises they made in the build up to the election.

It's not even 1%er stuff, it's for the 0.01% of people who " ok boomer " their way through life and fail to adult in an adult world.

QLD's crime is out of control, NT has been burning socially for years now.. and half the country is either flooding or on fire half the time. But, I'm glad little Julian or Joshua or whoever who " OMG I can't even " is now ok because a law prevents his employer from talking to him outside of his contracted hours.

Horseshit br]

It’s only necessary because of the bosses own shortcomings. Bosses of today don’t usually know how anything works. Companies have leadership training that involves no day to day knowledge of what their people actually do. Add that to being to
Cheap to pay for redundant positions. And unwillingness to pay employees more money to learn someone else’s job….


Your boss sucks. That’s a broad generalization and I usually don’t like those… but I’ve been in the same business for 30 years. The same job more or less for 20. The job largely hasn't changed. The product is basically the same. The only real difference in the management. Up until the last 10 years or so did these phone calls become “necessary”. So I’ll say it again your boss sucks. And if anyone reading this is a boss and is offended by that… good. Use your anger to be better, don’t be mad at me generalizing something I can probly very easily demonstrate by spending the day with you.

Call me at home for something that can wait until tomorrow (all work problems can, unless you’re a fucking cop a fireman or heart surgeon or something. But I’m the asshole for not wanting to deal with your shit, unpaid, on my time… cause we are a family? Cause you love and respect what I do? Fuck you, pay me. That’s not selfish, that’s not unreasonable, it’s not spoiled. It's fucking just and fair.


Again, the major point you should all take from this your boss is not your family (unless you at the family business… you do you) but everywhere your boss, your buddy who buys you donuts and coffee to keep you happy and feeling like you are a part of things. Is doing g that so they don’t have to pay you what you are worth and for “all” the things you do.



Their poor planing and general shittyness is not an emergency on your part. God damn right I should be protected from bein g fired for not answering phone.


I’m not mad at people who disagree with what I just typed. In fact I’m sad for you. So manipulated and stuck… you’ve been lied to your entire life about this. And I know it hurts to see
What a fool you’ve been, make them pay you he makes a dollar you make a dime. Don’t let him get it for 9 cents cause of some programmed work ethic that isn’t a real work ethic.


A real work ethic is to do the job you are payed for. Do it right, efficient, and with pride in yourself. I’ve got to much pride in self and what I do than to do it for nothing.

It sounds like your boss sucks, not mine.

It's individual, case by case. There are certainly bosses who manage poorly, who are in need of constant communication. There are also industries that are 24/7 that may also require some communication between bosses and their team as there could be days between actually seeing each other in person. And visa versa.

But it's another example of the Albanese Government and its miss-placed focus. It spent $450 million on a referendum that ultimately only effects 3.3% of the population and was voted against by over 60% of the country. QLD was nearly 70%. Imagine what a purposefully spent $450 million could achieve for our Indigenous Australians if The Left could put people before ideology.

Here this " disconnect " bill, introduced by The Greens ( no surprises ) is there for the tiny minority of white collar office workers that it ultimately " protects " from what... being inconvenienced?

While the attention is focused over here, as this left wing government makes noise about something that ultimately doesn't matter - The NT has fallen into more despair than it was at the height of the Voice Referendum debate or before it ( large indigenous population ) QLD is battling through a crime wave ( that Labour Governments seem to find funny ) there's a housing crisis.. everywhere, a cost of living crisis, a nation wide drug epidemic, a casual $900 billion in national debt. This Government has also killed off the logging industry to save the possums. Destroying more jobs. On top of being indirectly responsible for killing the automotive industry, as the union movement is so embedded in left wing Australian politics. That, and this country is either burning or flooding most of the time.

There's a notion that's muttered by calculated political types in Australia, regardless of what side of politics they're on when in opposition - and that's " getting on with it, and tackling the issues facing the hard working Australians. "

A law that protects you from a ringing phone isn't it. As mentioned above, there's some real concerns among the working class, the classic " Aussie Battlers " and the marginalised communities.. and this isn't it.

While this rant likely feels like hyperbole, I'd be less passionate when I see these almost deliberate wastes of time if this Government was actively achieving anything note worthy, significant or truly bettering the lives of everyday Australians.

As a rule of thumb, I don't think bosses should be contacting workers outside of normal business hours where avoidable, as All34LOL mentioned, it is often poor planning that creates the issues, but not always.
In my field it is 24/7 manufacturing and sometimes an 8pm call to the day shift electrician will save the afternoon shift hours of headaches, it is always a known thing that bothering someone outside of work hours should never be your first port of call, but sometimes it is helpful.

I wonder whether people who believe they should be uncontactable outside of business hours think it should go the other way.
Should all personal calls be banned under all circumstances during work hours with the exception of breaks.
Are we heading to a world where productivity is monitored by cameras and AI with all toilet and coffee breaks monitored.
Nobody seems pretty happy with that Amazon type model.

Perhaps we just need to understand that in the world outside of a few back actors a bit of give and take goes both ways and we should live with it rather than one-sided legislation, it is a low unemployment society, so it is not like employees have a gun against their head.

Feb 18, 2024 21:40:44 GMT iNCY said:

I wonder whether people who believe they should be uncontactable outside of business hours think it should go the other way.
Should all personal calls be banned under all circumstances during work hours with the exception of breaks.

That certainly seems to be the message - it would seem those who would support a bill like this, are those who would largely support WFH measures. 

They want minimal supervision, hence the smoke and mirrors of WFH. They want zero contact outside of paid hours, hence this bill. But they want to ease into Mondays with the bare minimum of effort, and have the flexibility of running errands and attending to their personal affairs during paid work hours, despite the weekend ( but, I forgot.. the weekend is for them ) and they want to work less and get paid more.

I'd state regardless of sector or industry, regardless of white collar or blue, most logical, common sense driven leaders, managers and workers would agree that as a collective set of ideals it sounds like the incoherent demands made by a 21 year old child who doesn't understand the real world yet. 

While I agree that contact outside of traditional business hours isn't great, if it's business critical or it makes the lives easier of the person you're contacting then it's justifiable. And usually welcomed. 

In my previous job, the expectation was 24/7 accessibility. In the end, it didn't suit me, as I was craving a much better balance with a young family. But as a Store Manager, to avoid any sort of contact on my days off from my team, I would do a lengthy hand over with either my Assistant Store Manager, or whoever was leading the store in my absence and I always offered the " Just give me a call " and to avoid any unwanted contact from a Group Manager, I would often give them a call on a Friday afternoon, or summarize in an email on what the next few days looked like. At the end of the day, most leaders just want piece of mind that whatever needs to get done, is getting done. Lead the conversation now as opposed to having to answer questions later, or leaving things to assumptions.  

Think people are missing how 24-7 stuff works. It is not for people working full time. It is for people working part time, with the expectation that you can be called in at any time. Except they no longer call. If managements sends a text now you are expected to read it, cancel all plans and come into work. They do not call, since if they call you can say no. In the texting case if you do not come in you get written up. Management will claim they did not see any texts you sent back and that you should instead come in and tell them directly.

But this is not white collar or WFH workers as they have set hours already, and WFH already is easily contactable. This is retail, wait staff, fast food, etc that has this issue in the states. Places were hours vary week to week and are assigned routinely with little notice and labor is easy to replace. And almost entirely with young workers or migrants new to the workforce who do not realize this is not normal activity.

People who actually do need to have 24-7 access usually have company phones are paid to do so.  If not paid for the availability paid bonus rates to deal with work off hours they jump at or are on a deal they only work when contacted.  IT support is the classic field.  A host of people on contracting work also are in this area. 

The kid working the burger joint 12 hours a week does not need to have 24-7 access for them to do their job, but this is who this stuff normally will effect more than other fields. 

If you're working part time, or casual for that matter - being offered additional work shouldn't be a bad thing. Most PT/CAS workers are screaming for more hours.

Australia, where this bill is being passed ( although, similar bills are locked in overseas ) if you're working in a part time capacity in retail and likely in other sectors, then you would have signed a " standing consent " and what they entails is, if you haven't signed it, you will only be rostered your contracted shifts - those contracted shifts are obviously agreed upon by both the worker and employer. If you have signed that standing consent, it suggests you're available to work additional hours - within your availabilities. Now, that may suggest you might get a phone-call or text message outside of your rostered hours. Passing a bill to stop any communication, potentially hinders PT/CAS from getting additional work.

You're also lumping all leaders and managers in Australia into a basket with " local warlord " printed across it. Most are decent people with a complete understanding of one's boundaries.

The problem is say you have a the weekend off. You leave town for the weekend and get a text at 10pm on Sat that you need to be in now at 6am Sunday morning. You do not show up you get a write up. So either you cancel everything you have planned and spend the night driving home, or risk getting fired. At least in terms of US labor laws.

People want more hours on a fixed schedule. Not more hours thrown on you with less than 12 hours notice with a threat of being fired if you do not drop everything to fill them. Which is why these bans are coming. And of course jobs expecting problems to be fixed remotely off the clock which is becoming more and more common too. This is in a separate area though of wanting people to work on demand, without pay for being on demand.

What this all breaks down to is contracts. Labor is a contract between a boss and employee. Employee offers to do X work for Y pay and sign a labor contract when hired. A lot of the stuff in this thread is people saying that jobs should be able to change the contract as they see fit to add in more conditions or labor. In America sure this is all legal. But it should not be. Contracts are not something that one party just gets to rewrite whenever they want as they see fit. That is not how contract law works anywhere, but in labor, that is exactly how they work. If you took your car to a mechanic and they changed the work contract you had, you would be furious. But jobs do this all the time and it is normalized.

I'm guessing every experience you've had is a bad one, hence the anxiety around this sort of thing. This bill is also for Australia. Not the US, and once again, you're also lumping all leaders and managers in Australia into a basket with " local warlord " printed across it. Most are decent people with a complete understanding of one's boundaries. And EBA and big retailer policy is so pro-employee to avoid any problems, that even the thought of a manager " writing someone up " over anything you've suggested would be shot down very, very quickly by a nervous People & Culture Partner.

My first job managers in their 30's were fucking the 16 year old girls working there and firing them if people found out. You all like do not get that Americans do not have your labor protections, and what at will termination really turns jobs into. Companies that appear in every town like Dollar General engage in systematic wage theft and merely the pay fines when they get caught. A stool is not a reasonable medical accommodation for cashiers at Walmarts. Or that most part time work caps workers at 30 hours, and plans to call them in at least once a week, because calling people in does not count towards their hours worked for legal entitlements.

Like multiple people told you that things are different here, but you all assume it is a mix of what things are like over there and what you see on TikTok comedy videos.

I really do not get what the problem is in people doing what they are contracted to do for the pay they are contracted to receive though. Like this should not be hard concept. If you want to do other shit, add it to the contract instead of dropping it on a person after they accept the job.

Feb 19, 2024 3:02:24 GMT NATH45 said:

I'm guessing every experience you've had is a bad one, hence the anxiety around this sort of thing. This bill is also for Australia. Not the US, and once again, you're also lumping all leaders and managers in Australia into a basket with " local warlord " printed across it. Most are decent people with a complete understanding of one's boundaries. And EBA and big retailer policy is so pro-employee to avoid any problems, that even the thought of a manager " writing someone up " over anything you've suggested would be shot down very, very quickly by a nervous People & Culture Partner.

We are operating in a 4% unemployment market where labour has never been more mobile or able to find new work.
Legislating behavior into after hours contact seems and overreach by government.
If people are employed on a casual or part time basis, they should be contactable to be offered shifts.

If they don't want to work those shifts or they don't want to be contacted outside of work hours the job is a bad fit from both sides.
People would rightly be upset if the government moved legislation to control the number of personal calls you could take in a shift.

Like I continue to tell you, this bill for Australians in Australia working under Australia labor laws.

Despite your best efforts to relate it to your experience in the United States.

Feb 18, 2024 21:14:03 GMT NATH45 said:

It sounds like your boss sucks, not mine.

It's individual, case by case. There are certainly bosses who manage poorly, who are in need of constant communication. There are also industries that are 24/7 that may also require some communication between bosses and their team as there could be days between actually seeing each other in person. And visa versa.

But it's another example of the Albanese Government and its miss-placed focus. It spent $450 million on a referendum that ultimately only effects 3.3% of the population and was voted against by over 60% of the country. QLD was nearly 70%. Imagine what a purposefully spent $450 million could achieve for our Indigenous Australians if The Left could put people before ideology.

Here this " disconnect " bill, introduced by The Greens ( no surprises ) is there for the tiny minority of white collar office workers that it ultimately " protects " from what... being inconvenienced?

While the attention is focused over here, as this left wing government makes noise about something that ultimately doesn't matter - The NT has fallen into more despair than it was at the height of the Voice Referendum debate or before it ( large indigenous population ) QLD is battling through a crime wave ( that Labour Governments seem to find funny ) there's a housing crisis.. everywhere, a cost of living crisis, a nation wide drug epidemic, a casual $900 billion in national debt. This Government has also killed off the logging industry to save the possums. Destroying more jobs. On top of being indirectly responsible for killing the automotive industry, as the union movement is so embedded in left wing Australian politics. That, and this country is either burning or flooding most of the time.

There's a notion that's muttered by calculated political types in Australia, regardless of what side of politics they're on when in opposition - and that's " getting on with it, and tackling the issues facing the hard working Australians. "

A law that protects you from a ringing phone isn't it. As mentioned above, there's some real concerns among the working class, the classic " Aussie Battlers " and the marginalised communities.. and this isn't it.

While this rant likely feels like hyperbole, I'd be less passionate when I see these almost deliberate wastes of time if this Government was actively achieving anything note worthy, significant or truly bettering the lives of everyday Australians.

I’ve had dozens over thirty years they all suck. And so does yours.

Feb 19, 2024 3:39:18 GMT NATH45 said:

Like I continue to tell you, this bill for Australians in Australia working under Australia labor laws.

Despite your best efforts to relate it to your experience in the United States.

Exactly, there’s just too much of a difference in how the workplace operates between the two countries. Generally a lot harder to terminate someone in Australia also.

For example a bartender in the USA getting paid $2.13 USD an hour and relying on tips is going to be a lot less receptive to being contacted to work than a casual bartender in Australia being offered a Sunday shift at $40+ AUD an hour.

I was a member of United Workers Union and they called/text and emailed me too much so I cancelled.

Currently they’ve introduced something where your employer has to ask if you want to work public holidays. Public Holidays you get paid 2.5x your normal wage so I’m amazed anyone says no.

I'll say this, if management acted like they do in those anti-union videos... yeah I'd agree. But they don't. they suck and I assume it's part of the training to gaslight and be deceiptful over their own PUBLIC policies. I guess they just count on ignorance, which even with the unions making the resources available flourishes. It feels incredibly naiive to assume the fight is over as all the gains they made are far from a given and constantly being taken away. Sadly there's no penalty for union busting even with established unions. If people don't hold them accountable then you might as well not have a contract. People give up so easily deeming it worthless when it's really not, you just have to be patient and willing to fight. Most aren't as most just wanna show up, do their job and leave. That's fine, but you're signing off on the current conditions as favorable by not holding them accountable.

Feb 19, 2024 0:57:08 GMT NATH45 said:

If you're working part time, or casual for that matter - being offered additional work shouldn't be a bad thing. Most PT/CAS workers are screaming for more hours.

I think in a lot of cases they are not offered extra shifts - they are ordered to come in at random times and disciplined if they refuse.

Feb 19, 2024 12:55:22 GMT All34LOL said:

Feb 18, 2024 21:14:03 GMT NATH45 said:

It sounds like your boss sucks, not mine.

It's individual, case by case. There are certainly bosses who manage poorly, who are in need of constant communication. There are also industries that are 24/7 that may also require some communication between bosses and their team as there could be days between actually seeing each other in person. And visa versa.

But it's another example of the Albanese Government and its miss-placed focus. It spent $450 million on a referendum that ultimately only effects 3.3% of the population and was voted against by over 60% of the country. QLD was nearly 70%. Imagine what a purposefully spent $450 million could achieve for our Indigenous Australians if The Left could put people before ideology.

Here this " disconnect " bill, introduced by The Greens ( no surprises ) is there for the tiny minority of white collar office workers that it ultimately " protects " from what... being inconvenienced?

While the attention is focused over here, as this left wing government makes noise about something that ultimately doesn't matter - The NT has fallen into more despair than it was at the height of the Voice Referendum debate or before it ( large indigenous population ) QLD is battling through a crime wave ( that Labour Governments seem to find funny ) there's a housing crisis.. everywhere, a cost of living crisis, a nation wide drug epidemic, a casual $900 billion in national debt. This Government has also killed off the logging industry to save the possums. Destroying more jobs. On top of being indirectly responsible for killing the automotive industry, as the union movement is so embedded in left wing Australian politics. That, and this country is either burning or flooding most of the time.

There's a notion that's muttered by calculated political types in Australia, regardless of what side of politics they're on when in opposition - and that's " getting on with it, and tackling the issues facing the hard working Australians. "

A law that protects you from a ringing phone isn't it. As mentioned above, there's some real concerns among the working class, the classic " Aussie Battlers " and the marginalised communities.. and this isn't it.

While this rant likely feels like hyperbole, I'd be less passionate when I see these almost deliberate wastes of time if this Government was actively achieving anything note worthy, significant or truly bettering the lives of everyday Australians.

I’ve had dozens over thirty years they all suck. And so does yours.

Mines great.

Not everyone in a management position is evil.

Feb 19, 2024 17:17:04 GMT Gyro LC said:

Feb 19, 2024 0:57:08 GMT NATH45 said:

If you're working part time, or casual for that matter - being offered additional work shouldn't be a bad thing. Most PT/CAS workers are screaming for more hours.

I think in a lot of cases they are not offered extra shifts - they are ordered to come in at random times and disciplined if they refuse.

Lucky I'm talking about Australians in Australia working under Australian labour laws.

Is it so hard to fathom this conversation isn't about America lol?