PI



1. Randy Savage vs Ultimate Warrior: Wrestlemania VII Retirement match



2. HHH vs Shawn Michaels: Unsanctioned match at Summerslam 2002



3. Brian Pillman vs. Jushin Liger @ WCW SuperBrawl II (2/29/92)



4. IC Champion Jeff Hardy vs. Umaga, Cage Match - WWE RAW (1/7/08)



5. Mike Awesome vs Masato Tanaka at ECW ONS in 2005



6. Nick Bockwinkel vs Curt Henning in AWA Championship Wrestling 11/15/1986



7. Alex Shelley vs Chris Sabin for the X division title atTNA Genesis 2009



8. Ted DiBiase vs. Jim Duggan - Loser Leaves Town Tuxedo Cage Match with a Coal Miner's Glove on a Pole, Mid-South Wrestling 3/22/1985







Emperor



1. Undertaker vs Mick Foley Hell In A Cell at King Of The Ring 1998



2. Jericho vs Benoit Ladder Match at 2001 Royal Rumble



3. Goldberg vs DDP at Halloween Havoc 1998



4. Sasha Banks vs Bayley at NXT Takeover: Brooklyn



5. Tiger Mask vs Dynamite Kid NJPW Big Fight Series II in 1983



6. Tommy Dreamer vs Raven at Wrestlepalooza 1997



7. British Bulldog vs Lord Steven Regal at Halloween Havoc 1993



8. Jumbo Tsuruta vs Genichiro Tenryu at AJPW Super Power Series, June 5, 1989

Only three votes?! Get your asses in here!

At first glance, I thought I was voting for Pi, but match for match Emp edged it out for me 5-3.

I imagine this will get more votes tomorrow. Weekends are always dead here.

I probably should've waited till Monday US time, I was just eager to get the threads up.

Giving Emperor my vote as well. He's got 3 matches on his card that I dearly wanted on mine while PI only has the HHH/HBK match

:lol:

I was hoping for something better than a total blowout, but getting paired against Emp is tough.

Considering how revolutionary it was, I'd be inclined to give Tiger Mask/Dynamite Kid the edge over Pillman/Liger for the cruiserweight matches. I feel like my ECW match has his topped (at least in my book) but maybe it loses points for some for not being "proper" ECW. I'm pitting my Hennig/Bockwinkel against Tenryu/Tsuruta, and calling it a draw. Same with the Motor City Machine Gun Showdown against Sasha/Bayley. In fact, maybe I give the edge to Sasha/Bayley based on what it represents for the evolution of women's wrestling in the U.S. as well as the fact it's not in a dumb-as-fuck six-sided ring. Then we get into the shit where I get murdered. Benoit/Jericho beats the fuck outta Jeff/Umaga for an IC title bout. Taker/Mankind beats Duggan/DiBiase for a carwreck cage match. And while I'd take HHH/HBK over Goldberg/DDP, I know that HHH/HBK has some critical faults for some, and Goldberg/DDP was an awesome case of overachieving... so it's hard to make a 100% confident call there. Ultimately, I'd take HHH/HBK for the emotion of the match (i.e., HBK's return). But still... Kilgore got me, easy.

I'm thinking that my way of judging this is less like it is a card (so different styles doesn't matter so much) and more "if you could've attended live each of these matches at the time, what would you choose?". Even that thinking throws up an issue in terms of would you be watching an 80s match with 80s eyes, which could impact on certain matches, which I'll get to (EDIT: I never did get to this but it was referring to TM/Dyno and how I don't think they hold up but may have loved them at the time). Maybe it is easier to think of it as "from this point on, you are going to be banned from ever again watching one of these sets of matches, so you have to pick the ones you want to still be able to watch".

🤯 has a great match in Savage/Warrior that has some faults (5 Elbows was excessive, 3 would've worked far better; finish itself is underwhelming), but it has one of the all-time greatest moments in all of wrestling. Whether it was to be there live or just watch again and again, that is a big plus.

Emperor has a similar top pick in terms of something incredibly memorable. It is a match that is overrated by some but underrated by many. The Taker/Foley Cell match may go completely against standard wrestling logic, where you'd build a match up to the giant spots, but it worked because of the characters involved. Still-a-face Taker was being pushed as turning darker and Mankind had always been a crazy, maybe he even likes the pain character. So Taker trying to kill him repeatedly, especially given their history (even in this match with minimal build), and Mankind just coming back for more worked. This is where my thinking on how to view this becomes an issue. If I had to be able to watch only one of these ever again, I'm picking Savage/Warrior but there are very few things ever as a wrestling fan that would top seeing that Foley stunt show spectacle live. I think I may just have to revert to a more simple "which set of matches do you prefer?" rather than overthinking this.

HHH/HBK is another interesting pick. I loved the match in real time, genuinely fearing for HBK's back (we now know that his back injury wasn't as drastic as we'd been led to believe at the time). The vicious back work from HHH was great and I understand that HBK did need to kip-up - he'd been away for 4 and a half years and that was the big "he's back" moment, as that is basically his minor version of a Hulk Up. But it still does hurt that he just absolutely drops the back selling completely for the rest of the match. I think it would not have been as bad if it was a one-off, given that it was his big comeback match in a blood feud against his best friend, but it became a staple of post-comeback HBK. Have the legit poor back worked over, act like it is almost broken, no sell entirely for the whole finishing stretch. And yes, that is different than a Hulk Up finish, where it isn't like Hulk is normally selling one particular area and then once he Hulks Up the match doesn't go into some elongated finishing stretch. And Hulk Hogan is a comic book character come to life.

The Benoit/Jericho ladder match is fantastic, albeit that Walls on the ladder spot might be worse than all these terrible double stomps to the face in terms of an opponent putting themselves in place for the spot. Along with Taker/Foley, Emp started out strong if we were thinking of matches/spectacles you'd want to see live. And in that thinking, PI is starting out with big moments (Savage/Liz reconciliation; HBK's return, win and post-match attack) that would also be great to have seen live.

I'm writing too much here, so I need to just give some more brief thoughts. While it is the highest regarded one - possibly due to Meltzer - that is the worst of the TM/Dyno matches for me. Bit of a disjointed mess and I am not the biggest fan of their matches anyway. Liger/Pillman easily tops it. Jumbo/Tenryu is the best match on either list. DiBiase/Duggan is pretty much perfect - exactly what it needed to be, short and intense, great face performance, great heel performance, all of the gimmicks paid off in the match and just a perfect finish. I haven't got too much time, so I'll stop there.

This is tough and I'm surprised it is such a blowout as things stand. One guy has Savage/Warrior, HHH/HBK, Liger/Pillman, Awesome/Tanaka, Bockwinkel/Hennig and DiBiase/Duggan and has no votes. It isn't like Emp has some unbeatable super list. But I do think Jeff/Umaga (have no recollection of it) and Shelley/Sabin (most people won't care about them too much) is hurting him. All of Emp's matches are well-known, except Davey/Regal and those are two names people love, even if it is a match I don't expect to be particularly good (haven't seen it), since no one talks about it.

And then having talked about how this shouldn't be a blowout, I'm still going to go for Emperor and it is because of Jumbo/Tenryu.

EDIT: I think this is my first time voting on anything on the new forum, as I've just seen that you can change if you make a mistake. Excellent.

I definitely would have taken Liger/Pillman over Tiger Mask/Dynamite Kid. Many reasons. (1) PW has a love affair with Pillman. (2) Liger is the best junior heavyweight ever. (3) There are many Tiger Mask/Dynamite Kid matches. I didn't know which one to pick, and the "Meltzer-best" one does not meet approval of Strobe, who has presumably watched most/all of them. (4) Liger/Pillman is more well-known because it's American.

I'm surprised I'm the only person who picked a women's match. I also noted down the Trish/Lita Raw main event and Trish/Mickie WM22 in case someone got Banks/Bayley first.

I could go either way in voting but since PI stole Tanaka/Awesome from me I'm voting for him. One of my favourite matches of all-time. I can watch it over and over.

Honestly, I would take Savage/Warrior over Foley/Taker. Taking personal bias aside, the latter is remembered more, but it didn't have the build up either. In fact, the match was just thrown together to give Taker something to do on the highway to SummerSlam. Meanwhile Savage/Warrior was this huge match that had the most hostility of any match of that card and was between two megastars. As great as Foley was in '98, he really wasn't over with the fans and wouldn't be until he took those huge dives off and through the cell.

Also, as flawed as HHH/HBK is, I can't help but feel it was a home-run for the WWE. They had been planning this match since 1998, they had a lot of history to go off of and they gave the fans the match they wanted to see. The crowd was into everything, it got fans to buy into HBK as a star 4 years after he called it quits and the match was a significant moment of that era.

I want to vouch for both those Raw and TNA picks. If I was to compare that Umaga match to anything, it would be Daniel Bryan turning on the Wyatts and getting the entire crowd to flip out. It was that sort of a moment for Jeff Hardy and no matter how many mistakes he made, the fans were all in on Jeff and his title reign could not come soon enough. If this had have been on a PPV, it would have been heralded as this all-time amazing moment and was twice the match of HHH-Hardy from the previous PPV.

Meanwhile TNA holds up surprisingly well and the Motor City Machine Guns are a large part of that. Unlike a lot of guys now, both guys knew how to compliment the flips with some theatrics and this match is a good example of that. If I had to pick an X-Division match, I'm not sure if I would have gone with it, but I'm glad we're having a conversation about it.

And Awesome-Tanaka is one of my favourite rivalries of all-time. So folks love to watch Flair-Steamboat, Misawa-Kobashi, Tanahashi-Okada...give me Awesome-Tanaka.

In saying all that, Emperor drafted really well and his card is surprisingly strong from top to bottom.

I voted for 🤯 , I like his card better from top to bottom and his top two matches were awesomely hate filled feuds that culminated with some incredible moments. Plus he has Umaga , and put him in one of the best performances against another favorite of mine in Hardy. Plus he nabbed Perfect/Bockwinkel - which is my favorite of all the AWA matches I've seen - awesome stuff between two awesome workers.

Emperor had some cool picks in there and played the draft well but his tastes aren't in line with mine , which is par for the course. His HIAC and Goldberg/DDP matches would be my main interests and the rest I wouldn't care as much.

What a tough match. Very hard to decide since both are rocking killer ECW matches, I'd give the slight edge to Raven vs Dreamer for the story involved and all the shenanigans that I consider part of the match(Emp should have drafted Taz vs Sabu and Taz vs Douglas and he would have had the pinnacle GOAT ECW hour ever). But Awesome vs Tanaka is epic MOTN from quite possibly my favorite pro wrestling show ever.

Goldberg vs DDP, Bulldog vs Regal held Emperor just barely get my vote, there are a few matches on PI's draft that I have either never seen or don't remember. I always kinda liked Savage vs Warrior's rematch at Summerslam 92 a little better than that Mania match but that is a great one, I'd still take the HIAC over it though. Got to go with Emperor here, though PI would have gotten my vote over most other guys in this draft.

Feb 12, 2018 11:26:04 GMT Emperor said:

I'm surprised I'm the only person who picked a women's match. I also noted down the Trish/Lita Raw main event and Trish/Mickie WM22 in case someone got Banks/Bayley first.

Oncall picked the Trish/Victoria hardcore match as his #8.

Feb 12, 2018 17:51:39 GMT shinobimusashi said:

What a tough match. Very hard to decide since both are rocking killer ECW matches, I'd give the slight edge to Raven vs Dreamer for the story involved and all the shenanigans that I consider part of the match(Emp should have drafted Taz vs Sabu and Taz vs Douglas and he would have had the pinnacle GOAT ECW hour ever).

When researching ECW matches I came across Taz vs Douglas, but the consensus seems to be that it's a garbage match, only noteworthy as a passing of the torch moment. That's when I settled on Raven vs Dreamer.

Feb 12, 2018 20:46:28 GMT Emperor said:

Feb 12, 2018 17:51:39 GMT shinobimusashi said:

What a tough match. Very hard to decide since both are rocking killer ECW matches, I'd give the slight edge to Raven vs Dreamer for the story involved and all the shenanigans that I consider part of the match(Emp should have drafted Taz vs Sabu and Taz vs Douglas and he would have had the pinnacle GOAT ECW hour ever).

When researching ECW matches I came across Taz vs Douglas, but the consensus seems to be that it's a garbage match, only noteworthy as a passing of the torch moment. That's when I settled on Raven vs Dreamer.

Taz and Douglas had an immediate rematch at the ECW Arena that was better, but didn't hold up well according to (I think) a Big Pete match review a few years ago, so you made the right choice.

Shin is referring to the Wrestlepalooza '97 where a bunch of segments and matches bled into one another. Guilty As Charged '99 was an over-booked slog of a match that would instantly be dwarfed by their much better House Party '99 match.

Mind you that was a running theme of House Party '99 with the odd exception of the Dudley Boyz. They had to spend two long segments hyping up the return of the Public Enemy, who left the company only a couple of weeks later.

Advancing by a margin of 9-3, your winner is Emperor.