RT



1. Kenny Omega vs Kazuchika Okada: Wrestle Kingdom 11



2. Samoa Joe vs CM Punk: ROH Joe vs Punk II



3. Sami Zayn vs Shinsuke Nakamura at NXT Takeover: Dallas



4. Tetsuya Naito vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi - NJPW G1 Climax 2017 (Day 17)



5. Pete Dunne vs Tyler Bate at NXT Takeover: Chicago



6. Austin Aries vs Bobby Roode at TNA Destination X in 2012



7. Adam Cole vs Aleister Black at NXT Takeover: Philadelphia



8. Will Ospreay vs Ricochet NJPW Best Of Super Juniors 2017 (Day 2)



Baker



1. Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat at Wrestlewar 1989



2. Sting vs Vader at Starrcade 1992



3. Edge vs Eddie Guerrero Smackdown 9/26/02 (No DQ match)



4. Lex Luger vs Barry Windham at Chi Town Rumble 1989



5. Dustin Rhodes vs Rick Rude at Beach Blast 1993



6. Randy Orton vs Christian at Over The Limit 2011



7. JBL vs Matt Hardy at Armageddon 2005



8. Booker T vs Jeff Jarrett at Bash At The Beach 2000

We've got 8 votes here, i'd love to hear the reasons behind the votes.

As for me, i'm voting RT. I dig Baker throwing in Booker vs Jarrett as a last grab because it's one I discovered I liked during a WCW binge but RT has the best match at WK 11, my favourite ever Zayn match and one of the most brutual matches I can recall seeing with that Cole/Black selection.

For fear that I won't be able to achieve my watching/researching before voting closes, I'm throwing out gut-call votes at first. I'll come back in my own due time (even if voting is long since closed) and research and compare.

Right now, RT's collection of matches represent the wrestling that's really lost me. This modern era, "6+ star" stuff that I've admittedly never seen but the spite monster in me hates already. Meanwhile, Baker has three matches I LOVE in Flair/Steamboat, Sting/Vader, and Eddie/Edge.

I haven't seen the middle stretch of RT 's list, 4 through 7. But, like 🤯 , a lot of the modern stuff is not my cup of tea.

Omega/Okada has parts of a great match, but flaws mean it doesn't quite reach there, let alone best match ever territory. Joe/Punk II is great though and I'd put Zayn/Naka just about in that bracket too, with it being enhanced by being Naka's debut and the whole atmosphere around that. Ospreay/Ricochet wasn't for me, in fact I remember Ospreay actively annoying me during much of that match. Even if I would really like those middle stretch matches I haven't seen, it is unlikely that I'd feel too much warmth towards them. Something about modern wrestling is leaving me cold and that's my own biases in action.

I'd prefer Chi-Town but it's still top tier Flair/Steamboat, plus I like to assume we cheat and get Terry Funk in the post-match. We also have my favourite Sting/Vader match. I do remember Eddie/Edge being very good, despite not being a huge Edge guy. I'm even less fond of Orton, but I remember Christian being one of his best opponents. I feel like this bottom half of Baker's list is pretty weak. There were so many better options on the table. From memory, Luger/Windham was good but Rude/Dustin wasn't. I haven't seen JBL/Matt and don't really desire to.

Baker is going to get my vote just because of his top two picks really and due to the modernity of RT's list, but looking at the others, I'd say there is only one other list that I'd definitely have been picking Baker over, so for me anyway, he has been fortunate with the draw. Is this the same as other drafts and you get to select 2 matches from your opponent? If so, does the card expand to 10? Or do you have the choice to replace up to 2 of your matches with theirs?

I didn't even think about steals to be honest, primarily because this draft is so different.

In normal drafts, you steal 2 wrestlers and can use them any way you see fit to improve your card. Here though the matches are locked in. RT couldn't take Windham and put him in Okadas place to create Windham vs Omega.

If the majority want steals or were expecting that they'd be in place, i'm happy to run with it.

As a non-participant I like the idea of up to 2 steals as replacements. That way, by the final, it should truly be two 8-match superdupercards clashing.

Adds an extra element beyond just the draft itself. Which matches will you take, if any, and luck of the draw. If you win out over a really strong card, you get the bonus of 2 of those matches.

RT's picks are a good representation of the best of modern wrestling. Some of the best NJPW/NXT matches. I think Dunne/Bate and especially Joe/Punk are overrated, but still not bad matches at all. Baker has some solid picks, but generally not my era, and I'm not familiar with the more modern matches like Edge/Eddie and Matt/JBL. Flair/Steamboat is great, but if I had a choice I'd prefer to watch the likes of Okada/Omega and Naito/Tanahashi.

Generally I don't like the idea of steals. We all have our individual cards, and that's the way it should be for the whole competition. Replacements is an innovative idea, but it introduces an element of luck that I don't like so much.

I've never heard anyone say Joe/Punk II is overrated. That surprises me.

I went with a more modern approach to my list because these matches best represent what I really love about wrestling. While the older matches have their place in history and are undoubtedly great matches, they just never did anything for me. The feuds and stories were much better back then, but the matches themselves always felt the same no matter what.

Today's stars are more innovative and athletic in the ring than ever before, and the matches on my list are all reasons why I fell in love with wrestling all over again as an adult. Speaking specifically to in-ring action, I feel confident saying my list is the most diverse list of matches in this tournament and the oldest match on my list was wrestled in 2005. That speaks volumes to how great wrestling has become and how much it has evolved.

Don't take this little rant as a complaint, mind you. Baker's list is great. Every list in this tournament is great. I just like to explain my reasoning behind my picks in these drafts is all.

RT went way too indy for my personal tastes. Fair shout to him for having a specific theme and plan though.

I think if I went down the line , Baker might win 8-0 , even though I don't love Booker or Matt Hardy nor do I remember those matches. CM Punk would be the only close one but I love other matches of his more.

I've only seen 2 of RT's matches, I really liked Nakamura vs Zayne but didn't care for Omega vs Okada. With Baker his top two matches alone pull my vote, Flair vs Steamboat and Sting vs Vader may lack some of the flashy athleticism of RT's matches but there's just way more character in those two matches than anything I've seen on RT's list. Today's wrestling tops what the old generation did in a lot of ways but man it just lacks the character and charm of the old stuff, big time.

Feb 12, 2018 16:24:35 GMT RT said:

Today's stars are more innovative and athletic in the ring than ever before, and the matches on my list are all reasons why I fell in love with wrestling all over again as an adult. Speaking specifically to in-ring action, I feel confident saying my list is the most diverse list of matches in this tournament and the oldest match on my list was wrestled in 2005. That speaks volumes to how great wrestling has become and how much it has evolved.

I would be interested in seeing this "diversity" claim expanded. I find so many modern matches, in spite of source, blend together because most people wrestle a Meltzer-inspired workrate style. Whether heavies or juniors, WWE or New Japan or the US Indys, I feel like wrestling is more similar today than ever. Overly elaborate, choreographed sequences. Just throwing huge spots out there because they can. Every match having too many nearfalls. Everyone, irrespective of size, seemingly wanting to get in some back-and-forth strike exchange. The increased athleticism today should be of benefit to wrestling, but it is overused. Going for too much and going too far and the spots become insignificant.

As stated, I haven't seen your 4 through 7, so I don't know if they are different than what I'd expect.

I read RT's card and thought I'd be voting for him for sure. I'm in the Okada/Omega has many flaws camp but Zayn/Nakamura, Joe/Punk II and Dunne/Bate are big favourites of mine. The rest of the matches are matches that I don't love in the way RT does, but I really enjoy and would enjoy rewatching for sure. Aries/Roode is a dark horse change of pace that I like and the hardcore elements of Black/Cole would stand out as different.

Then I read Baker's and damn, I just loved most of it. Flair/Steamboat is as good as it gets, even if I'd have gone for Chi-Town Rumble. Sting/Vader, Eddie/Edge, Luger/Windham and Orton/Christian are all wonderful. I have to say matches 7 & 8 are pretty lacklustre in comparison and if steals happen he could do well in replacing them.

I also find RT's diverse statement really interesting to think about as I find Baker's list a lot more diverse - it's interesting what people think of in that regards. Very close match-up but I voted for Baker.

Advancing by a margin of 10-5, your winner is Baker

Sorry I've been quiet of late. Been busy. Plus my heart isn't really into wrestling/PW at the moment.

I'm a little surprised I won so handily. Didn't think my card was anything special. I suppose I got by on a combination of smoke & mirrors and knowing my audience. Now to critique my own card....

Flair/Steamboat, Vader/Sting and Edge/Eddie are quality. I'd put them up against any other Top 3 matches in this draft.

Lex/Windham is a good match. Maybe a stretch at #4. But still a good match.

I thought Dustin/Rude was boring. Picked it just so I could have those guys available in later rounds. Plus they do have good reputations so I thought people who haven't seen it might be fooled into thinking it's good/great.

Haven't seen any of the Orton/Christian matches but they have a good reputation and the one I picked seems to be the cream of the crop. Again, I also wanted both guys for later rounds.

JBL/Matt was a forgettable affair. Like **. But they'll come in handy in Round Two.

JJ/Booker is another one I haven't seen but it's often held up as one of the few shining moments of latter day WCW.

Why are you talking about having guys available in later rounds? Aren't the cards fixed until the end?

Feb 16, 2018 18:27:08 GMT Emperor said:

Why are you talking about having guys available in later rounds? Aren't the cards fixed until the end?

I hope not. I just assumed this was like every other PW draft where we have to come up with new matches every round. I'm screwed otherwise since I drafted with later rounds in mind. What's the verdict Call ?

First of all Baker , I think you're far from screwed, you've got a pretty good lineup there.

Second of all, i'm sorry if it wasn't clear, I thought it was clear that there's no modification. This draft was all about the matches, there's no cards to send into me or anything like that. Emperor has it right. Just to be safe though, i'm going to tag the other participants to check if they had the same idea and are working on cards, on the chance I didn't make it clear.

RT @the Dazz Shootist Kilgore 🤯

Part of the appeal for me was that there wouldn't be another card to make. It was just the draft and vote.

Feb 17, 2018 1:09:01 GMT Call said:

First of all Baker , I think you're far from screwed, you've got a pretty good lineup there.

Second of all, i'm sorry if it wasn't clear, I thought it was clear that there's no modification. This draft was all about the matches, there's no cards to send into me or anything like that. Emperor has it right. Just to be safe though, i'm going to tag the other participants to check if they had the same idea and are working on cards, on the chance I didn't make it clear.

RT @the Dazz Shootist Kilgore 🤯

It was clear to me upfront. The only question became whether we'd add matches from defeated opponents, swap out matches with defeated opponents, or simply keep our list of matches as-is.

Feb 17, 2018 1:45:28 GMT Kilgore said:

Part of the appeal for me was that there wouldn't be another card to make. It was just the draft and vote.

Ditto. This was the perfect blend of challenging thinking and easy effort.

Yeah, draft and vote. I don't recall ever talking about anything else.