Discuss here. @ness the die is cast.

My type of thread and to answer my earlier question: No Mercy all the way.

The AKI games wore my introduction and education into Pro Wrestling. A few months ago, Neo Zeed was speculating what WCW would have looked like had they continued going down the path of a WCW/NJPW type promotion and I lived that with Sting taking on Kim Chee & the Hannibal/Syxx rivalry. While that went out the wayside by the time AKI started developing WWF games, Wrestlemania 2000 and No Mercy still had that Japanese psychology where you had to wear your opponent down with basic maneuvers before you could hit your signatures. It made for a fun formula and guys like Saturn went from middle of the card to borderline greek gods.

That's not to say you couldn't make a case for HCTP. However the level of customisation No Mercy had just allowed your imagination to run wild. 74 wrestlers on the roster, but they all had four slots so you could easily make a roster of 300 wrestlers. Sure, your Mikey Whipwreck & Disco Inferno might behave too much like Stone Cold since you couldn't change the moves but it was a small price to pay and if you really wanted to, you could always just edit a CAW since a lot of WCW/nWo Revenge animations carried over to No Mercy.

Fans had fig feds for years, No Mercy was my toy-box and for a solid 18 months, I'd keep note-books filled with results for Nitro, RAW, SmackDown, Thunder and your Royal Rumbles, Superbrawls, Wrestlemanias, Spring Stampedes etc. Most of the fed was just rehashing old feuds like Austin/Taker, Sting/Hogan, Benoit/Jericho etc. but I'd play around with the era and include guys like Brock Lesnar, Three Minute Warning, Yokozuna etc. Even in my version of Sting/Hogan, Sting was never going to hold the title for long before Hogan eventually won it back. I actually went down the Russo path and my future WCW guy was Booker T who would be mixing it with the likes of Benoit, Jericho, Raven, Brock Lesnar. Over on the WWF side, I had Austin putting over Hunter who would do a reverse favour and give Mick Foley a proper run with the title.

Typically how I'd do it is I'd play through every match with my desired winner and have a checklist in my head of what I wanted to do and what story I wanted to tell. If somebody went off script and actually won, I'd go in that direction and hand out random pushes to Test. While the heavyweight titles were always set in stone, I'd play around with the mid-card as much as possible, constantly playing around with tag teams and handing out random pushes to The Godfather, Hugh Morrus, Kanyon. I had a few random-ass teams like D'Lo Brown/Rob Van Dam, Jeff Jarrett/Ken Shamrock, Brock Lesnar/Kane, Taz/Sting, Randy Orton/Chris Jericho etc.

It lasted from around 2002-04, then I had a brief desire to revive it in 2009 with TNA guys like AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, Motor City Machine Guns, Matt Morgan, Consequences Creed mixing it with John Morrison, CM Punk, Drew McIntyre, Sheamus, Kofi Kingston, Ricky Ortiz, Dolph Ziggler, Evan Bourne etc. but I started to get more into the Attitude Era and played around with converting Wrestlemania 2000 into a WWF 1998 promotion with Vader, Goldust, Pantera, Dan Severn, Bodacious Bob etc.

I think the last time I checked, I had this stroke of genius where I'd eliminate all the gimmicks and just have guys use their shoot names with no fancy gimmicks.

I don't think I've touched the solo mode since it first came out. I remember I desperately wanted to kick Vince's ass after he got some heat with me for firing Mick on Christmas (again!) and being pissed you had to unlock him by eliminating 80 other wrestlers in Survival or jumping through all these hoops in story. I never liked the story mode either, I have too big an ego and the idea of losing on purpose sounded incredibly un-fun. Plus there was the whole fiasco with Stevie Richards replacing The Big Show due to some last minute drama so for 20 odd years it's just been No Mercy.

I still play it every now and then. These days I'm more curious about breaking the game apart and getting an idea of the nuts and bolts of the game. Melonbread on Twitter is one of my favourite accounts to follow and websites like AJ's Virtual Pro Wrestling Junk has a ton of info on cut content and DYK content. It's getting easier and easier to mod the games, so I'll eventually make my own WWE 2004 save I always wanted to make and take Mordecai straight to the top!

I've waxed lyrical about No Mercy, and while it's retroactively been considered the absolute peak of Pro Wrestling, in real time SmackDown 2 gave it a massive run for it's money. I actually owned KYR before No Mercy since it came with the PS1 I received for my birthday while No Mercy came out around a holiday season that included Majora's Mask and Banjo Tooie - those are just the breaks. SmackDown 2 had a lot going for it, a proper season mode, more match types, all the PPVs, better audio etc. but the load times killed it for me.

I could keep going but want to keep my powder dry. My question is in your games who was your main? All cards on the table and you can only play the one guy who did you want to be that year?

Great post Big Pete

Pro Wrestling (NES)- Late 80s. My first wrestling game. One of my first NES games, period. My friend Matt Not The IRS Fan had it before we did. Featured such legends as Fighter Hayabusa of Back Brain Kick fame, Kin Corn Karn, Starman with the backflip dropkick, and the immortal Master of the Backbreaker King Slender (plus the Amazon & Giant Panther, neither of whom I was a fan of). Never did beat it, though my brother may have in the early 2010s. A classic.

Steel Cage & Royal Rumble- 1993ish. Always lump these two together due to playing them at more or less the same time. One was for NES and the other for Genesis/Super. My friend Matt The IRS Fan introduced me to both. Beauty of these games, beyond the gimmick matches that gave both their titles, were the themes. We'd just let those themes play for ages. My lapsed fan brother enjoyed that aspect even more than I did. I often played as Perfect, Flair, and The Mountie.

Tecmo World Wrestling 93-94ish. Don't remember how I came across this one. Rental? Matt again? Whether a rental or a borrow, I didn't have it for long. Dr. Guildo & Rex Beat are the two main characters I remember. Highlight of this game was the commentary that would scroll across the bottom of the screen. Such gems as "It's Doomsday For The Skull" or "A Flesh and Mat Sandwich." Moves included the Royal Octopus Hold & Northern Right Suplex. 93-94 me didn't once question why they named a suplex after a midcard whale. This game could/should have been a local cult favorite had it hit at a different time. Oh, and the final boss was called The Earl of Doom. A name so nice I stole it for one of my two Undertaker ripoff characters in my wrestling figure league at the time (the other coming from Intellivision's Nightstalker)

The Arcade Game?- late 93-early 95? Don't remember the name of this one but it had Earthquake. I'd occasionally play it at my brother's indoor soccer outings when not binge reading my AP World History textbook (again) or being recruited to participate in their practice either as a goalie or to even up the sides. Sometimes I'd play the arcade game with this other guy Greg. A soccer star in his own right, Greg was a peripheral member of my 90s clique. He was the first Cactus Jack fan I ever met and he was all excited about the Dudleys coming to WWF during the last wrestling conversation I remember having with him. Putting those two together leads me to believe he was an early proponent of Hardcore Wrestling. Anyway, the actual game was meh. I honestly preferred the world history textbook. Upon further review, playing this game at the indoor soccer venue may date back all the way to late 92.

WCW Wrestling- 95-96ish. An old NES game that came out in the days when we still called it NWA. Again, no idea how I even came into possession of this one. Just know that Intellivision, NES, and even Genesis lived on here until 1999 or thereabouts. This game featured all your favorite late 80s-early 90s NWA/WCW stars with my go to guys being the oddballs- Dr. Death & Eddie Gilbert. This game had finishers, but they were really hard to hit. And the final boss was a thinly veiled version of Andre the Giant.

The Game Where Vader Turns Into A Bull- 96ish. I hated this game so much. It was for one of those new-fangled systems like PlayStation or what have you. Chuck or The Three Brothers got it the day it came out, or close to it. It was 1996 so we were HYPED. I couldn't wait to play as Vader, Goldust, Owen, etc. But this game was the worst. Biggest disappointment since Uncensored 96. It was all goofy and cartoony. Every character had a dumb special like Vader turning into a bull. It was like a poor man's version of those Mortal Kombat/Street Fighter games I mostly ignored. 0/10. The worst.

Warzone- 98-99. Hat tip to Pete for providing me with the name. This game was a hoot thanks to the CAW feature. Honestly spent more time on that than I did on the matches. Only thing that bugged me was how out of date the roster was. Just goes to show how quickly things moved back then.

*Tomorrow (or maybe later tonight) I'll be back to cover the Smackdown series. Power rankings for now- 1: Pro Wrestling. 2: Warzone. 3: Steel Cage/Royal Rumble. Last Place: Vader Turns Into A Bull.

Where the fuck is @ness?!

I'll be right with you on the SmackDown series as well, Bake. The 8 Bit/16 Bit generation was one I largely skipped over and the only games I ever really touched were the LJN games. AKA: Super Wrestlemania, Royal Rumble and RAW. Like you Bake, I can't remember much beyond just enjoying the sheer nostalgia of listening to 16 bit renditions of classic WWE themes. The other thing that stands out is that on RAW you had these Mortal Kombat esque over the top moves in the game, so Doink could boot wrestlers out of the ring.

It seemed like the WWF went all-in on the Mortal Kombat concept when they released Wrestlemania: The Arcade Game. This is where you had guys like The Undertaker float in the air to grab wrestlers by the throat to saddle up for a chokeslam and Razor's arms would literally turn into razors as he chopped his opponent. It wasn't for purists, but this was one of those games that was designed for the arcades and it really popped out.

It was later ported over to consoles by Acclaim and they made the sequel In Your House which you played, Baker. The big gimmick of that game is that each arena was different so for instance Davey fought out of a stereotypically British setting, Hunter Hearst Helmsly fought out of a manor, Owen fought in a house of cards etc. etc. On the whole since it was PC/Console exclusive and wasn't running on as powerful a hardware, the game really didn't pop at all and was just an inferior sequel in every way.

Wrestlemania: The Arcade Game isn't the arcade game you're thinking of. That's WrestleFest which has the best spirte-work of any WWF game.

Never played it, but it's considered the best of it's era. It's one of those games that just pops out at an arcade, so even if you weren't a huge wrestling fan, you could spare a quarter while somebody hogs up Mortal Kombat II.

I wish I could say my first wrestling game was black box NES, but it wasn't. As I probably touched on eleventeen years ago in another thread my first game was more than likely Warzone. I put in a ton of hours into this bad boy first at my friend's house and the following X-mas when I got my own copy. My justification... did not sit well with some. Why do you need it? You can just play it at Josh's house. I don't live there. How often do you play it? A lot. A wee bit primitive compared to modern standards and some will say it doesn't hold up (will never put myself in a spot to confirm or deny) , but you could def say it was the blueprint for everything to follow. No Mercy can't run without Warzone showing it how to two-step!

Plus the roster is at a great period in wrestling: 97. Combine it with No Mercy's 2000 timeline and it's just *chef's kiss*

It took me a minute to realize "War Zone" was the 2nd hour of Raw.

First game to have a CAW? Certainly in the mainstream. Sadly you could not customize the moveset and basically had to use another wrestler's including their taunts. The hair was the best part because it was clearly painted on a bald head. Next to no volume!

If you're a fan of wrestling themes sadly this ain't for you. The entrances are nothing, merely a taunt in front of the titan tron before walking down the ramp off camera.

Gameplay one of my favorite things is the crowd response. Or at least I remember it being. Basically if the crowd is booing you it helps your opponent by recovering their health and giving them a "push" so to speak. If you just spam punches the crowd is gonna get behind the other guy so it incentivized spicing things up. I'm sure punch move punch could get around whatever AI was triggered though. The moves weren't simple like later games they had button inputs. One move stumped us and that was performing a moonsault. IIRC the movelist simply say "X" so we'd climb to the top rope and hit X and nothing. WORTHLESS. I didn't find out until years later by doing it by accident. I think I was a headbanger and as you're climbing the top but before you turn around for an elbow drop or whatever (back to the mat still climbing) is when you hit X. Once you turn around on the top you can't do it. Weird, but I did eventually figure it out years later so I could never tell a soul. Until now?

I learned my neighbor's little brother was an HBK fan, which we dismissed as someone only girls liked. Context wise Shawn was merely the commish when I started watching so I had no reference at the time. It was interesting how everyone was mad you couldn't do the People's Elbow officially. I'd try and be a mark and do a normal elbow and claim it counted. Again he hadn't invented the move yet so it wasn't in here. He was still Die Rocky Die. Even Austin didn't do the kick wham as part of his finisher animation. I think there was a special button input to do it, but the normal finisher was just the drop.

I'll talk about more games in separate posts. I promise I don't have as many in my "career highlights" section as you'd believe. Or maybe you would, I feel like I kinda stick to familiar faces versus trying new things.

Mar 19, 2024 0:15:33 GMT @ness said:

1. My justification... did not sit well with some. Why do you need it? You can just play it at x's house. I don't live there. How often do you play it? A lot. 

2. The hair was the best part because it was clearly painted on a bald head. Next to no volume!

1. I felt this. Heard it so many times throughout the 80s & 90s.
2. omg THE SWOOP~! I had forgotten all about that. We popped for it big time back in the day. Called it The Egon because it reminded us of Spengler's physics defying hair in the Ghostbusters cartoon.

Smackdown Series: 2001ish-2004. Don't ask me to differentiate between the 3(?) games. I can't. They all run together. I don't even remember the specific names!  Iirc it was Rock Catchphrase- Rock Catchphrase- Here Comes The Pain. I don't have a particular favorite. They were all equally fun. Peak wrestling video game experience. It's weird given how much I loved video games & loved wrestling during the 80s & 90s that I wasn't this huge OMG! WRESTLING VIDEO GAME~! guy. Most of the games mentioned in my earlier post were fine. But they all had relatively short shelf lives. Even the iconic Pro Wrestling is something I went years without playing.

Got into the first of these SD games through two friends and these games in turn played a major role in getting two other previously non-fan friends who had slept through Hulkamania and no sold the Attitude Era into wrestling. We'd play pretty regularly (a few nights a week when the games were hot) over the next 2-3 years. It was a whole big thing. Even brought me back into gaming after a 2 year hiatus that honestly felt more like 20. OK, so it was just the Smackdown games, Madden, and a retro Intellivision game on a PS2 I bought literally just to play SD at home, but something > nothing. Earlier Big Pete asked who your guys were. I mostly played as various CAWs, including my own personal character, (more on that in a minute), but if not, smart money would be on...

Dean Malenko, Jerry Lynn, or Billy Gunn. Malenko & Lynn because they got a "who the hell are these guys?" reaction from the noobs. And even one of the veteran fans who had been watching since the late 80s-early 90s had no idea who Jerry Lynn was . And Billy because I memed the One and Only into being a thing with some b.s. physics explanation I once came up with on the spot. Come to think of it, these games definitely turned me into a Lynn fan (always thought he was bland prior to this) and played a role in making me a Billy Gunn fan. So now Pete knows what to blame for the latter.

But we're really here for CAW talk and all that entailed. I might delete most of this after a few days because I run the risk of doxing myself. Somehow this bothers me more than any Lawlermania chatter since my brother died (I did hold off on some Lawlermania/wrestling figure stories prior to 2019). Anyway, there were 5 main guys who played + others occasionally passing through. The Fab 5 all had their own custom CAW, but only a few of them will be named here.

My first character was Claude "Big Hit" Baker. He looked and wrestled like Steve Corino as I looked a little like Corino myself at the time. This character had a fairly old school moveset as befitting its influence. Egged on by my flashy friends who found my moveset boring, I took "old school" to the extreme by becoming intentionally boring. Also changed my look into basically an Anderson with shorter hair featuring a bald spot, a gut, a hairy chest, and plain trunks rather than the flashier tights I had previously worn. My finishers were now the "Diving Elbow Bat" (super bionic elbow) and, I believe, the Thesz Press. I briefly had a tag partner in "Bryan Baker" who was like the Ole to my Arn. Problem was this low impact, low energy moveset meant I lost. A lot. So I concocted an elaborate scheme. Or maybe this had been the plan all along? Yeah, probably that. Anyway, I lost a match to my friend's "Hell's Guardian" character, who I had been feuding with, when he chokeslammed me off the Smackdown fist. This killed off "Boring" Claude Baker.

After a quick memory card swap I resurfaced as "Countdown" Claude Vanity. This was the character I was born to play. I teamed with my friend's Jack Vanity character. Claude was basically an 80s hair metal version of Ric Flair. Long blonde hair. Wore a bandana as a headband. Tiger-striped tights. Accessories galore. I was constantly changing the color combinations. Always the brightest, of course. If it ain't a 1992 WWF neon color, it ain't for Claude. Wore one matching glove and what I called a "pharaoh necklace" for extra douchebag points. Had a lot of Flair & Bobby Eaton moves. I'd call my own matches. This was where a lifetime spent listening to The Brain, The Body, and The King paid off. It mirrored the fake radio show I did with my brother approximately 5 years earlier in that I considered it a win if I could make my opponents crack. Goal was getting them to break character by either pissing them off or making them laugh. I was always cracking up "Jack" in addition to pissing off "Hell's Guardian" on a pretty regular basis. It was great.

One of my big gags was renaming my moves after hair metal (and Neil Diamond) songs. I had dozens of them- Hello Again, Prisoner In Paradise, Halfway To Heaven, Wind of Change, Once Bitten, Twice Shy, etc. Hello Again & Once Bitten, Twice Shy were actually the same move- two quick forearms followed by a rolling forearm. One time an opponent was like "I HATE that stupid Hello Again!" and I was like "What are you talking about? That's the Once Bitten, Twice Shy!" That broke him. Score one for the good guy. And from then on, I would use the names interchangeably. Prisoner In Paradise was this weird seated neck submission thingie Raven was using around that time irl. Halfway To Heaven was probably the old Diving Elbow Bat. Honestly don't remember the move. Just remember using the name. Oh, and the Round and Round. That was a full rotation German Suplex a la that era Kurt Angle. Or maybe Prisoner In Paradise was the Figure Four? Idk. It was a long time ago. And those are just the ones I kinda sorta remember. There were a whole lot more.

My finishers under this persona were "Flash Magic" (Shining Wizard) and Piledriver. My Flash Magic was dubbed The Final Countdown. Duh. You knew it was coming. And the Piledriver was......the Piledriver  Score another one for the good guy. One time an opponent was like "What stupid name do you have for that?" And I was like "That's the Piledriver! Duh. Haven't you watched wrestling before?" Gold, Jerry. Gold. You couldn't beat me once I got in the zone. I mean, you actually could beat me pretty easily in the game. I wasn't very good. Just average or maybe even a little below average. But you'd never, ever get the last laugh on me. I had an out for every defeat, a million and one excuses. At some point I also used the Figure Four and Haas of Pain as finishers, but the F4 was probably for “Boring” Baker and I think the Haas came late in the day when the fad was dying out. Again, I can’t say with 100% certainty. 

Themes I remember using were Dean Malenko's, Christian's Opera, WGTT, and we briefly (as in maybe just the once) blared Queen's Bicycle Race on the CD player to get that cheap (anti)pop. Pretty sure there was also one cool custom theme on one of those games that I used for a little while as well. Oh, and the Jack & Claude Vanity team was called Team Vanity. Pretty sure this was before "Team X" became a thing. So we invented that too. We hailed from Paradise City and our go to finish was Claude’s Final Countdown followed by a Jack frog splash. We dubbed the combo Daze of Vanity as a play on a line from a John Cougar Mellencamp song. Jack's other finish was the Side Effect. This would have been during the V1 era. 

That Team Vanity run was definitely the heyday of the Smackdown video game series. I finally got to play the type of heel I had dreamed of being since (at least) Survivor Series 95. Think this would have been 2002. Another time we intentionally lost a Loser Leaves Town match only to once again pull a quick memory card swap and re-emerge as Claud-Tor and Jak-Tron: The New Breed. In this incarnation we wore silver masks and silver jumpsuits as befitting our status as hailing from the future. Again, this got the intended reaction. Those memory card swaps were *chef's kiss* Those Smackdown games were the best. Or maybe it was just my booking? Probably a combination of both. Credit to "Jack" too. Like Lawlermania Rick before him, we were often on the same wavelength as two guys sharing a single super brain. Y'know I still have one of those games with memory card. Might have to fire it up tomorrow for the first time in a decade or more.

Playing alone at home I spent more time creating wrestlers than I did having matches. I'd agonize over CAW for hours, desperate to get the perfect look and moveset...for characters I barely used lol. I eventually found a CAW site that proved to be a godsend. For some reason I remember "Dr. Death" Steve Williams always seemed to be the first non-"Baker" CAW I created. I never beat any of these SD games. Could you beat them? Genuinely no idea. Don't think I ever even got very far. I was in it more for the get togethers. You guys have no idea how much fun I had coming up with goofy move names and silly zingers just to troll the boys. "Jack" and I would occasionally brainstorm this stuff at Arby's when the others couldn't make it to our daily hangout.

Unrelated, but my first ever 50 Favorite Wrestler list also stemmed from one of these Arby's conversations with "Jack." He asked me for my Top 10, maybe Top 20. I had trouble narrowing it down. And either he egged me on further, or I told him I'd come back with a Top 50 the next day. And I did! Written down and everything. Fwiw I feel like 80-90% of that 2002ish list would still be in my Top 50 today. 

Back for one more since a few things I forget to mention yesterday came to me at work today.

We played a lot of Rumbles on the SD games. Beauty of these is if you got eliminated you could come back as another entrant. Also did a lot of blind draws where we'd scroll through all the wrestlers and you'd play as the one you stopped on. Often led to wacky tag matches like, say, Austin & Albert vs. Rock & Scotty. Might have had a rule where you couldn't play as another person's personal CAW, but I'm not even sure about that. We'd also do a "winner stays on" thing where we'd all take turns challenging "the champ." 

Forgot to mention two of my other finishers were the One and Only (duh) and Test Drive (Last Rites). Realizing now I went through finishers the way I go through avatars on PW. I was also big on the Mongolian Chop. It was just the right kind of goofy. Would turn your opponent around making them susceptible to the Round and Round or even the Last Rites when I was using that for a finish. Forget the exact details, but I remember once losing another stipulation match- Loser Must Get A New Finisher. And the way I remember it this time I either went from the Piledriver to the One and Only or One and Only to Piledriver. Feel like I lost every stipulation match I was in lol. 

Another custom CAW I had was By-Tor: "Knight of Darkness," "Centurion of Evil," "Devil's Prince." Though I don't recall which of those nicknames I used. This one was created to feud with my friend's previously mentioned Hell's Guardian character. If Hell's Guardian was just classic Kane taken to the extreme, then By-Tor was classic Kane taken to the XXXTREME~! By-Tor was all about that red & black. Dude literally had red skin. And horns. Yeah, By-Tor had horns. Deal with it. By-Tor was also maxed out in height and buffness. He was supposed to be inhuman! Like that was his whole deal. Finish was a Claw Slam and, I dunno, probably the regular Claw. Or maybe it was the Tenzan Tombstone? That was a boss move. Think they called it Tombstone 2 or 3 in the game(s). And his theme was this ominous, dissonant number hidden among the extra themes.

Still might be back for one more. If I happen to fire up the old PS2, I'll post a list of the CAW I have on there.

Mar 21, 2024 3:52:28 GMT Baker said:

One time an opponent was like "I HATE that stupid Hello Again!" and I was like "What are you talking about? That's the Once Bitten, Twice Shy!" That broke him.

20+ years later that got me too, between that and the SmackDown fist death and resurrection and the New Breed gimmick swap it sounds like you guys had a sweet little territory going.

That's one thing I always loved about these games, they gave you all the necessary tools to be creative. This was right around the time of message boards so everyone was chronicalling their own saves, whether it featured the WWE roster, or just their college dorm or even an online E-fed where guys would submit their CAWs it just brought so much fun to what could have been just another sports franchise.

Did you guys ever max out the number of CAWs?

In 1998, when WCW was still the biggest Pro Wrestling company in the world, EA offered them a contract that was too good to refuse. At the end of the year, THQ would lose the rights to the WCW brand and would quickly have to find a new license if they were going to continue shipping millions of units. The WWF had been with Acclaim for over a decade this point, starting with WWF Wrestlemania all the way back on the NES. However THQ had an in through their co-founder Jack Friedman who also co-founded Jakks Pacific. Jakks had acquired the WWF toy license only years prior from Acclaim/LJN and now they were going to take the video game license as well. WWF Attitude would mark the final game from Acclaim and starting with WWF Wrestlemania 2000 on the N64, THQ was about to take the WWF to new heights.

It was welcome news for Sony PlayStation owners who had been left out in the dark. A decision had been made early into THQ/AKI's partnership that AKI would exclusively focus on the N64 and they'd find another studio for PS1 and other consoles. Their first point of call was this new start-up Inland Productions who were tasked with making two games WCW Nitro (1997) and WCW Thunder (1998) the latter of which was ported to PC/N64 as Nitro. The games were just pale imitations of the Warzone games with button inputs. The only things fans remember is the character inputs, otherwise they were mediocre games that resulted in mediocre sales.

THQ learned their lesson and followed a similar path they took with AKI. Instead of working with a brand new studio closely, they'd work with an experienced Japanese company in Yuke's. Yuke's had released six games at this point under the NJPW license and like AKI had developed a nice balance between easy to pick up and play combat combined with smooth animations that made the combat engaging.

By the time they got their start with the WWF Smackdown series, they were ready to hit the ground running.

SmackDown had everything fans would want. An expansive roster, create-a-wrestler, season mode and backstage areas. It blew away all the previous WWF games and finally right as the PS2 was about to launch, western fans had a Pro Wrestling game that could stand alongside the N64 offering.

EXCEPT the attention didn't last long on SmackDown. Yuke's had a Q4 deadline to meet and eight months later released SmackDown 2: Know Your Role. The game improved on everything that had come before it. The 36 person roster had now nearly been doubled with 66. Create a wrestler had been expanded to 10 CAW slots and you could actually create your own costumes instead of selecting pre-made faces/costumes. Season mode was expanded and better programed to be more logical. The game also included more match types including Ladder matches and Hell in a Cell. This defied every expectation and while No Mercy has gone down as the better game, SmackDown 2 gives it a real run for it's money.

The one blemish most fans agree on is the load times. Had Know Your Role (KYR) been released for the PS2, it would have been regarded as a must-own launch title for the system but THQ focused more on the install base, so Yuke's were pushing the PS1 hardware limitations to their breaking point. One other change they could have made was simulating matches, where the game would play a mini-game where you'd watch a bunch of health bars deplete. On a show with 8 matches, with matches sometimes requiring a loading screen, it would take an unnecessary amount of time to play through a show.

Just like in No Mercy, The Big Show was a last minute cut from the roster due to some behavarioul issues. Unlike No Mercy though, Yuke's found a way to sneak him into the game. During the Royal Rumble a random CAW that contained the Big Show's scanned head and attire would make his way in at #30. Ken Shamrock, Jeff Jarrett and Goldust were also included as scans and were a consumer friendly way of playing these wrestlers that had been cut last minute (in Jeff and Goldust's case, during SD 1's production).

KYR really was this wonderful package and with EA signing AKI under THQ's nose to work on their next WCW game (which was later turned into an EA original series - Def Jam), it appeared that Sony was the new destination for Pro Wrestling action.

In 2001, Yuke's would release the first SmackDown game on the PlayStation 2 Just Bring It (JBI). JBI had big expectations to fulfil and Yuke's knew this and made some big promises heading into the launch. Namely instead of a Season mode where you'd simply work your way through matches and challenge for titles - the game would include a choose your own adventure season mode where you could interact with wrestler's backstage and shape your path. Did you ever want to be a character or control the show? That was all going to be possible here and it was going to be like an episode of RAW/SD that you got to control.

On top of that, this was going to have state of the art presentation, authentic commentary and all the bells and whistles that came with a new generation of system.

We should have known early on it was too good to be true. The problem started when it was revealed the Invasion era angle happened too late in production for any WCW or ECW star to be included. OK, but then the hits kept coming. Instead of a 60+ person roster, we were down to 40+. Brawling in the crowd involved a bunch of card-board cut-outs as fans and Moppy on one side of the arena and a crate on the other. Commentary was so stiff and poorly programmed it's some of the worst on the system and to even save the game, you'd lose half your memory card's storage.

The kicker was that story mode was three matches long. You'd play, you'd play SmackDown and you'd play Wrestlemania. Who developed this? Claude Vanity? I remember receiving this expecting this to be the Christmas gifts to end all Christmas gifts. My first ever game on the brand new beast of a system and with 30 minutes I saw the credits. Now I had heard season mode was short, but three matches?! I presume after going all out for KYR, production started late for JBI and a lot of features they wanted to work on had to be delayed till Shut Your Mouth and they just had to release what they had.

They probably had ideas for a proper calender year, but it most likely proved too ambitious so they scaled it back and gave players just enough choices to make for a few short campaigns.

It was definitely a step-back for Yuke's and while the games were well received by publications, they weren't going to rest on their laurels. The only thing JBI brought to the table was the option to play with 8 players in the ring, something we wouldn't see again until over a decade later. Possibly for good reason as it was choatic and the targetting system just couldn't handle that much action at once.

One thing I will say is that the original SD trilogy had a fantastic OST. This whole era of Sony had this really futuristic Jungle/Drum and Bass sound that made their games feel more exciting to play. Combined with the slick user-interface/menus and this was the type of video game experience that was easy to get lost in. While I thought THQ/Yuke's nailed the SD 2 roster, SD3 was where they dropped the ball. Not only were we down 20+ wrestlers, but the WWF had cottoned onto Yuke's including scans as create-a-wrestler parts and did away with the option altogether. You could no longer create clones of existing wrestlers on the roster with alternative costumes, it was strictly off limits and you could only make custom CAWs.

As far as the roster itself, the big inclusion for me was Tajiri, Raven and Jerry Lynn. The first two are no-brainers, but Lynn was one of those guys who didn't have the best run, but he makes for a good video game character and this was his only appearance in a WWF game. Again, I just wish they went all out with the roster and included the likes of Justin Credible, K-Kwick, Haku, The Goodfather, Val Venis, Bull Buchanan, Essa Rios, Kaientai, Jacqueline, Scotty 2 Hotty etc. The first three actually appeared in the X Box game RAW, made by Anchor, but the game was delayed and Anchor had never made a Pro Wrestling game prior so it was very mediocre.

I still poured plenty of time into JBI, in fact I deleted my save and was happy to beat all the campaigns again so I could get my money's worth. However with SYM on the horizon I was prepared to do something I've never done before or since and that was trade it in for Shut Your Mouth. That's where I'll leave it, was I once bitten twice shy or did SD4 live up to the hype?

PS.

- One of the rewards for beating JBI was Theatre mode where they had the ads for SD1 and SD2 plus this neat 2001 compilation set to classical music (War March of the Priests).



- THQ didn't really learn their lesson from Inland Productions. The X Box games had some really cool ideas and details (including the ability to add custom music) but ended on a sour note with Wrestlemania XXI being virtually unplayable (you needed to download a patch that has since been taken offline to access certain modes). The GameCube games were better but appear to be made by Yuke's B-team with less production put into them. I'll likely touch on them when we get to 2004.

Pete continuing to bring the goods with another great post focusing more on the nuts and bolts of these games. I popped for some of those lines. Now I have more things to write about + questions. So many questions...

Thanks for putting over my sweet little territory. Really was the best thing since Lawlermania. Not to toot my own horn (lol, yeah right), but I built that territory from the ground up, baby! Seriously though. I really was the one to bring in storylines. Before that it was just basic gaming. "Jack" picked up on what I was doing right away. As I said, we basically shared the same super brain. Then the others got in on the action. Well, most of them. One of the regulars always was a party pooper. Which only made him the easiest to troll!

Mar 21, 2024 7:52:44 GMT Big Pete said:

Did you guys ever max out the number of CAWs?

All the time. Because I remember having to make gut wrenching decisions about who to cut so I could add somebody new. You mentioned only 10 CAW slots on one of the earlier games and....that checks out since I don't remember going crazy with the CAW right away. Throw in our custom characters + the occasional guest's character + Will's Eminem* and/or Britney Spears* and there's your 10. Oh, and for you DBZ fans, I'm almost positive "Hell's Guardian" created a Vegeta at some point. Which reminds me of a memory card question I'll ask at the end.

But didn't the later games have a massive amount of CAW slots? Swear I remember having like 24 or 32 or maybe even 40 created characters? This was probably the 03-04 game. That's the one I mostly played alone at home after the others had moved on. I'd start with, say, the 1989 NWA roster. Then I'd get bored and go New Generation WWF. Or maybe 1996 ECW. Before switching to contemporary TNA/ROH. And then I might even run with a LAWLERMANIA roster. Then maybe I'd go with the best of the best.

Not gonna lie. That 3 match season sounds dreamy. I finally could have beat one of those stupid games! Claude Vanity will indeed take ALL THE CREDIT for that one. Seriously though. I tended to get whooped by the CPU before long when doing season mode.

*Wasn't head Bizkiteer Fred Durst an actual character in one of these games? I swear this happened! Feel like @ness would know for sure.

Pete reminded me of CAW templates sometimes being based on real people. Didn't this apply all the way down to moveset? Feel like there was a Great Muta moveset hidden in one of those templates. Fwiw Muta was another go to CAW of mine. My friend Will swore Britney Spears was another one of those templates. That was a big thing. Will vs. his girlfriend (who had a character of her own, especially in the early days). He had a crush on Britney. She had a crush on "Rocky." They argued about it. Constantly. It was annoying as it was adorable. Making musicians in games they didn't belong in must have been in the air in those days because I remember the middle of the Three Brothers putting Big Pun (or was it Fat Joe? One of those big boy rappers, anyway) in some earlier CAW game, probably Warzone. I wasn't a fan. Meant one less spot for Muta, Dr. Death, or The Funker. 

YES to the slow load times, commentary so generic and repetitive that it became a turn off, and slowdowns/glitches when the ring became crowded. Gosh, I hadn't thought about that stuff in a good 20 years. Pete with the 10/10 post. The slow load times honestly didn't bother me that much. I just assumed it came with entering into more advanced territory as we weren't in Intellivision Land, Nintendo Land, or even Genesis Land anymore. 

Another technical question I have long forgotten the answer to- When you did a memory card swap, could you transfer just one or two characters, or did you have to transfer everything over? I'm 90% sure it's the former, but I suppose it could be the latter. 

I was late to the Warzone party, but I was first in line for Attitude. You don't generally hear much of anything about the game, but I thought it had some decent features. When I got it though I was sort of on an island since I moved a bit away so my wrestling friend wasn't around much to play it. I tried to get my neighbor into it, but he HATED wrestling. Except for one thing... Gangrel's entrance. He thought it was the coolest thing and told me that almost got him interested. That's like buying an album for one song. Initially it's great, but you're gonna be disappointed. I was actually glad he didn't get into DIS BUSINESS because then I could use wrestling stuff for our nerd hobbies and he'd be none the wiser. We each had lego bases and he named his #TOPGUY Assrin Goodwind, typical fantasy bullshit. I named mine Chris Jericho because he didn't know! Then when we met up with my former wrestling fan friend, Josh, he looked at me weird because I liked Jericho.

You like him?

Yeah, I kinda did.

So Attitude was a huge step up in terms of entrances and theme music. It also had a feature that I loved... I'm not sure what they called it, but they had secondary moves that you could only use when your opponent's health bar was in yellow. Finishers were obviously red. I think they called the secondaries "trademarks". Some of the lower card guys they really had to stretch things. For instance I think Bradshaw (few years before JBL) used a standard powerbomb for his. 99% with Jarrett it was a Stroke/Figure Four combo. I always marked out for little things like that.

I also remember something that was a bit of a disappointment. There was a setting to turn it to a teen rating and that for some reason unlocked X-Pac's real theme. I assume without he just used DX. Not sure why that is, I assume because it says suck it? I thought it would unlock HHH's My Time, but sadly kid me didn't realize how game development worked so we didn't get it. He probably just turned when the game was released in all honesty. One cut scene saw HHH do the "let's get ready to suck it" by calling me a "fat ass guy sitting on his couch playing the game". LIES! I was on my bed.

Even stranger (at the time) it had Shane on commentary. I assume he did Heat at the time, but I didn't expect it here. Commentary was pretty hollow in these games I found. Another plus for No Mercy?

...

Baker I can confirm Red Hat Durst was an unlocked secret character in one of the SD! games. I only know of it since I saw screens.

I used to play FirePro wrestling from time to time.

Mar 22, 2024 8:45:56 GMT Baker said:

But didn't the later games have a massive amount of CAW slots? Swear I remember having like 24 or 32 or maybe even 40 created characters? This was probably the 03-04 game. That's the one I mostly played alone at home after the others had moved on. I'd start with, say, the 1989 NWA roster. Then I'd get bored and go New Generation WWF. Or maybe 1996 ECW. Before switching to contemporary TNA/ROH. And then I might even run with a LAWLERMANIA roster. Then maybe I'd go with the best of the best.

So Just Bring It (which I presume was the first SD you played since it was the only one that had Jerry Lynn and the Double Ho Seven theme) brought the number of CAWs to 12. Then SYM went all in and upgraded it to 32 and for the rest of the PS2 era it stayed at around 30-32 CAWs per entry.

The series did include preset move-lists you could unlock through season mode. This was notable in KYR where your wrestler would encounter a mysterious assailant backstage and have to wrestle them. These opponents would have an eerily similar move-set to Hogan, Sting, DDP, Goldberg and Japanese wrestlers. It was a nice little bonus that made the KYR season mode feel alive. That was the most notable instance, but they'd include these move-lists as unlocks through out the series possibly to this day. This usually proved handy if a superstar was cut last minute since it would include their entrance animation and signature taunts.

Granted, I always found that entrances lost their luster after awhile and would usually just skip ahead, especially if they were CAWs who didn't have their music available in-game.

Speaking of, yes, Fred Durst was an unlockable character in JBI. It was an insult to injury, since the roster had been cut down yet they found room for Durst. It appeared to be a stipulation to get Taker's music included in the game, where in other WWF licensed titles they usually just gave him the RAW theme. Licensing would prove to be a thorn in THQ's side - Maven was included in SYM but not his theme music which everyone (except for the man himself) loved. Outside of his dropkick, the theme song is likely the thing you remember most about Maven (now it's also likely YouTube and those on-point thumbnails). To unlock Durst you had to beat the 15 man gauntlet, Slobberknocker, with The Undertaker. I believe doing so with The Rock would also unlock the SmackDown Fist.

I presume you would have played through the Story Mode in JBI since Jerry Lynn had to be unlocked through that mode and could only be unlocked by playing with a light heavyweight wrestler. The mode had some good ideas and there's some cool-easter eggs like Con-Chairtos, the Brothers of Destruction celebration (no one arm entrance way salute unfortunately) and other animations/dialogue options that were character dependant. It was just so laughably short and repetitive since everything had to be settled at Wrestlemania.

There were a few things I forgot to touch on with JBI. One change it made to gameplay was the addition of a second finisher option - this was actually a big deal as before finishers had been relegated to regular moves. So Rock Bottom, The Tombstone, Twist of Fate etc. did not have anywhere near the pomp and circumstance they should have. JBI also included Earl Hebner as a part of most match-types giving you the option to distract/knock out the referee and cheat. Since there were so many SD games, it's easy for them to run together and forget which entry added what.

I never really utilised multiple memory cards, but you could copy one super-star, taunt etc. one at a time and send it to another memory card. It was a useful feature and just made the multiplayer aspect more accessible since you could have the one master save and everyone could transfer their data over. Another thing I never took advantage of was online or the multi-tap feature that allowed for additional players. SD games were strictly a two player experience much to the game's disadvantage. By SYM you could have up to six players which would have been wild to play with - were you ever able to get an entire squad together, Bake?

---

I always found it strange how quick the press turned on Acclaim and Attitude. Warzone was heralded as one of the best games of 1998 and between it and Turok 2, Acclaim was one of the best publishers in the world. Fast forward to 1999, Attitude is Warzone with an even bigger roster, a better CAW mode (you can make move-lists!), create an arena, create a PPV, more match-types but the whole thing just received a collective shrug. It seemed like back then the standards and expectations would shift rapidly and what was considered great one year was mediocre by the next. If you weren't making huge strides it was a disappointment. I spose it makes sense since games were less accessible and considered more of an investment so more of the same didn't cut it back then.

I've never sunk the time into it but every now and then when I feel like getting into the mituia of the N64 and having those nostalgic trips back in time where I'd rent games like Warzone, Iggy's Wreckin Balls, Turok, Extreme G and go off the beaten path. I think Attitude does a pretty good job of capturing that late 1998 era pretty well and having the likes of Mero, Sable, Kurrgan, Dr. Death, GM Slaughter gives it a niche. Maybe it would have reviewed better if it was based on an early 1998 with Tom Brandi? I think I'm alone on this island, but I like when games act as time capsules, so having Real Man's Man Regal, Gillberg, Scorpio, Golga etc. would have earned the game bonus points.

Mar 22, 2024 15:41:24 GMT Ed said:

I used to play FirePro wrestling from time to time.

Which edition Ed? Returns, World or one of the earlier ones?

I still play Fire Pro to this day.

Before I discuss about the big two, let's go over my experience with the Smackdown series.

Smackdown: Minus HCTP (which I won't talk about here) I put the most hours into this one. Gonna assume I got it right after Attitude whenever it came out. I remember always beating the story mode just for the ending. Revisited it via Youtube and there's no way that can be it, right? That was hardly worth revisiting. I loved the arcade mode compared to Warzone. I have memories of the Hardys being weird. Some of my thoughts overlap so I'm not sure if it's here or another entry, but I could've sworn Matt had a Northern Lights for his finisher. Why not ToF? I dunno fam. Also while Jeff did the SWANTON(~!) did anyone else struggle to connect with it? I swear you basically had to have the opponent in a rope break on the edge to even connect with this move. Was doo doo butter.

I dunno if I ever name dropped the dude (and honestly can't remember it) but around this time I became friends with this asian guy and he was OBSESSED with HHH. He was arrogant and thought he was the greatest even though he just spammed HHH's high knee. He bet me I'd never win with a jobber like Matt and I PINNED HIS ASS WITH THE NORTHERN LIGHTS. He of course ran away when I got the 3 count.

Also I remember winning a match as Mankind using MOUNTED PUNCHES because my opponent tapped out. WHAT. THE. FUCK.

Smackdown 2: I dunno what it did differently but I owned it. Like that whole above could actually be about this game...

I didn't get a PS2 until later in the game so I missed out on Just Bring It. I did own SYM, but I'm not sure if I have any memories of it. If I do they're probably an amalgam with HCTP.

I was a big fan of the first SD! vs. Raw simply for the soundtrack. Like it's a pretty good snapshot of what drew in the dimes from me in that time period. I can't say I played another after this. I was starting to move away from wrestling as a game since it was becoming more of a solo deal. And there's only so much fun you can have via 1P. Plus they were getting more annual with their releases and so we were going down the Madden route. Each future installment felt like an expansion pack. Not saying it's good or bad, but when all that's updated is the roster and some arenas (while still being out of date because of how much it evolves) it's just easier to stick with an older title. Sure Cena might be a 77 as an upper midcarder vs. a 99 main eventer, but it's the same shit really.

Is the 2k series the same lineage of the Smackdown games or is it it's own thing? Not that it matters as I basically started no selling them at this point. I did play through '13, the one with Punk on the cover. Work friend bought the game and MAN the sound quality was such a leap from the last set of games i played. Blasting Cult of Personality in yo face piece was an experience. And I SUCKED so bad. If it *was* the same games from SD! I forgot everything since I couldn't even figure anything out. I lost to Wade Barret. Shit was getting dark.

I will say this, I do like the concept of a star getting on the cover of the yearly releases. Looking at the wiki I think they wimped out by having Becky and Roman share one. What game was it that WWE started the you want Sheamus meme?

Mar 22, 2024 15:43:50 GMT Big Pete said:

Mar 22, 2024 15:41:24 GMT Ed said:

I used to play FirePro wrestling from time to time.

Which edition Ed? Returns, World, or one of the earlier ones?

I still play Fire Pro to this day.

I think it was FP World.

Mar 21, 2024 22:26:44 GMT @ness said:

he named his #TOPGUY Assrin Goodwind, typical fantasy bullshit.

Ass and wind in the same name just makes me think fart jokes. So many fart jokes. Even now I can barely restrain itself.

Mar 22, 2024 15:42:59 GMT Big Pete said:

1. I presume you would have played through the Story Mode in JBI since Jerry Lynn had to be unlocked through that mode and could only be unlocked by playing with a light heavyweight wrestler.

2. By SYM you could have up to six players which would have been wild to play with - were you ever able to get an entire squad together, Bake?

3. Maybe it would have reviewed better if it was based on an early 1998 with Tom Brandi? 

1. Nah. I didn't know Lynn needed to be unlocked, but Will and/or "Jack Vanity" must have unlocked him before I started playing because I don't remember a time without him on that one game. Those 2 (and Will's girlfriend) were playing long before they got me involved. Then it was another few months before the other 2 got involved. Don't think I owned that SD or even had a PS2 at the time. I/we'd just play it at Will's, or maybe "Hell's Guardian's" if he got involved that early.

2. It's possible. We often had 4 players at a time, but I honestly don't remember us going beyond that. Could well be wrong though.

3. It's a given. 

Two things need to happen to create a quality Pro Wrestling game.

Firstly you need a quality game that best reflects the action on television. Secondly, you need a quality television show that lends itself to video games. It's always been a difficult marriage, but the stars aligned for SYM to take the ball and run with it. While it didn't bomb with critics, JBI was a noticeable drop-off from KYR and if the series had legs, they were going to have to up the ante. Fortunately this wasn't going to be too difficult because the WWE had signed so many new stars since June of 2001.

After missing out on the Invasion era, what had been JBI's loss was SYM's gain so not only did this game see the likes of Hulk Hogan, Brock Lesnar, Ric Flair make their SD debuts but the game also included the majority of the Invasion era roster that had missed out in Booker T, Rob Van Dam, Diamond Dallas Page, The Hurricane and more. On top of that, the number of create-a-wrestler slots grew from 12 to 32 and as an added bonus, the game took up a far more reasonable 400kb, which is far more reasonable than the 4MB+ JBI wanted.

That in of itself would have justified a purchase, but THQ and Yuke's went all out. Earlier SmackDown games only had a handful of arenas, while SYM was the first to represent every single PPV for a total of eighteen arenas. As an added bonus, you could climb certain arenas like the SmackDown fist or the chair in King of the Ring as a fun bonus.

One of the biggest disappointments of Just Bring It was the ridiculously short story mode that lasted all of three matches. This was fixed in SYM where the season mode was expanded to two years. You'd select a superstar and each week you'd get to walk around backstage, interact with other superstars, talk to the GM about title opportunities or exchange brands. The story is set when Ric Flair and Vince McMahon were the acting GMs of RAW and SmackDown and it usually centered around each guy trying to one up the other. Eventually though they form an alliance and stage a coup within the WWE. You get the option to either join up or opposed the coup resulting in a big storyline that takes months to resolve. It largely draws inspiration from the Alliance angle with everything coming to a head at Survivor Series. Regardless of whether you win or lose, Vince tries to fire you only for Linda to save the day. Then later on Vince tries to get back at you by bringing in the nWo. When it's all said and done, you get a fantastic credits sequence which I've posted a few times, but for old times sakes.



Yuke's clearly had a lot of fun making the game and it really was a great celebration of the time period. The WWF TV may not have been firing on all cylinders - The Rock may have been shooting movies, Austin may have been in trouble with the law, Hogan-Vince could be having a stand-off over booking, but in that one disc was a WWF you could control with all the major stars you could want.

Going back to the 32 create-a-wrestler slots and that's what stood out about the game to me. No more hard choices, I had enough slots to add anyone I wanted to the roster. Rey Mysterio, Scott Hall, Nick Mondo, Justin Credible, Hayabusa, Crow Sting, Mr Perfect, Bam Bam Bigelow, Amazing Red, Jerry Lynn, Cactus Jack, Goldberg, Three Minute Warning, La Parka, Gobbledy Gooker etc. I'd spend hours printing out formulas from Gamefaqs or Caws.ws and making these guys. Usually they'd have a picture so you could see how they looked prior to, but often you were just taking a shot in the dark and you'd spend 30 minutes only to realise they look nothing alike. Usually that'd bring out the artist and you'd try and fix it the best you can - if nothing else it was a fun freedom of expression.

They also finally fixed Hell in a Cell and it was no longer just a cage match where you could fight along the roof. Finally it was to scale and you could fight on the floor inside the cage. One thing I remember doing all the time was hacking weapons into the mode through an Action Replay. I'd then do the DDT onto the chair animation, the game would bug out and would send the wrestlers into the crowd where they could continue fighting in the sea of humanity.

The game lived up to every expectation and more. If there was one knock against the games, it's that the gameplay was a little too simple. It was hard to tell who was winning or employ any strategy when spamming reverse, taunt and hitting finishers seemed to be key.

Oh that's one thing about the game - I loved how you could hit a button and it'd either give you a 360 spin where you were about to hit the move, or a black and white raging bull style slow-mo. This was a feature that I think was exclusive to SYM but just made the games better. That and the option to pick your post-match celebration was a nice touch.

Anyways yeah the games appeared simple and wrestlers all seemed to sell like the Road Warriors. You'd hit a Burning Hammer through Flaming Tables and they'd bounce right back up. It would just take the tension out of the game and if you were trying to have a back and forth match it was a little too chaotic. Yuke's seemed hip to this and that was the direction they'd go on with Here Comes The Pain (HCTP) the pinnacle of the series.

However that will be for next time. As admired as HCTP is, SYM made the bigger impression on me and finally after waiting over a year, getting my hands on Rob Van Dam was well worth the wait. The game really did him justice and had all his moves, including the Van Daminator, which they specifically added weapon grapples into the game for. I'd have to check, but I don't think they had the Van Daminator/Coast to Coast in the game yet, but I wouldn't be shocked if it did - it had so many other features you wouldn't think of.

Here Comes the Pain - HCTP.

Just on the commercial alone I was a fan. [Redacted] saying Lesnar was nothing was interesting seeing as he was basically a JTTS, who is he to challenge Brock? Torrie gave him her top, which is either flirting or a laundry request. Put a ton of hours into this one, obviously. Hate to say it but by time I got my hands on this I was "over" the whole concept of CAW. Don't even think I really used it much. Had a neighbor friend that always wanted us to play the game doing multi-man hardcore matches. Weird thing that he always did was "exit" the stage because it's Falls Count Anywhere and so it'd start loading the next screen. What I hated about this was it interrupted the count. I know logic has no place here, but explain why the ref gonna give a shit about some scrub opening a door elsewhere? The action is HERE!

I think we also had like a 2 hour Brock/Goldberg singles match. Neither would stay down no matter how many stolen finishers. That was a thing I loved. You had to save up 2 to do it, but always worth it. I especially like F5 2 because it was the GOAT version Lesnar used against Taker in HIAC. Holds them like World's Strongest Slam, bad ass shoulder plant BOOM. You love to see it.

Intro was great, was that an actual Smackdown theme or just for the game?

In the civil war, however, I am on Team No Mercy...

SmackDown Here Comes The Pain

The reason why HCTP is considered one of the GOATs is the gameplay. We've all watched Pro Wrestling and certain styles are way more entertaining and lend themselves better to video games. However Yuke's found a way to balance it out so that the showmen were just as fun to play as the hosses, technicians and cruiserweights. Each style had their pros and cons and made for a more strategic varied experience. Still, it was a SmackDown game at it's core and players were still free to pick up and play the game at their own leisure. If anything, players had even more control of the action and with wrestler's boasting twice the amount of grapples than before, you could work the exact match you wanted to work.

The game included a roster of 65 wrestler's including legends. This was THQ's attempt to compete with Acclaim and their Legends of Wrestling series. I'd imagine this was also pushed by the WWE who were promoting their Hall of Fame and actively focusing on their legends after pushing them to the side during the height of the Attitude Era.

Truth be told, I wasn't a huge fan of the legends and thought the majority of them could have been left out. With the exception of Roddy Piper, none of them had featured on TV in a meaningful capacity and I'd much rather play with modern characters. This would have gone down better had Hogan and Warrior been included in the game as intended. Unfortunately Hogan and the WWE had a falling out right as the roster was finalised and was cut as a result. Meanwhile the Warrior fall-out was so bitter and notorious the WWE made an entire DVD documentary about it.

Still, it would prove to be a smart concept and to this day it's become a staple of the series. Instead of relying on the active roster to get over, the WWE can just throw in an old WWE/WCW/ECW/Celebrity legend and call it a day.

The game also included the Elimination Chamber and Bra and Panties. The latter was promoted heavily but even the most perverted of fans would have only played it a handful of times before moving on. The mode was just a submission match where you could strip the glossy looking models to a two piece attire. EC on the other hand was a fan favourite and Yuke's nailed it from the get go accurately recreating the gimmick from Survivor Series '02. Usually Yuke's would take short-cuts and it would take a few games before they'd really nail the match, but EC was perfection and a major draw.

The other draw was the roster. You need two to tango and the WWE delivered with the likes of Goldberg, Rey Mysterio, Scott Steiner, John Cena, Batista, Ultimo Dragon, Team Angle etc. all joining the roster. Most of them were designed extremely well with the exception of Batista who was given random moves like a jumping spinning back kick. If Batista had have tried that in real life he would have broken every bone in his body. Tista had been out since February after getting a major push in the back-end of '02. I presume THQ/Yuke's hadn't seen enough of his work so they just had to fill the space the best they could.

There were some things HCTP didn't do quite as well as SYM. I thought season mode was a step-back and lacked the cool storylines from SYM. Also instead of being able to run around a virtual lobby and bump into wrestler's, the game just included a menu system where they'd play the RAW/SmackDown theme on repeat. I've got Across The Nation and I Want It All burned into my skull because of how often those songs would loop.

Since HCTP included an updated stats category for each wrestler, making CAWs became more tedious since you had to actively boost their stats, adding extra hours to the process. I didn't make anywhere near as many CAWs, but from memory I tended to make guys who complimented the roster. For instance, Scott Steiner was in the game, so I made Rick Steiner so I could have the Steiners in my season. For whatever reason I don't remember too many other CAWs, other than I went ahead and made them.

These days I retroactively think about what CAWs I would have made and basically anyone who featured on PPV but didn't make the cut from Unforgiven 2002 --> Bad Blood 2003 is usually a contender - even somebody like B2 would have made it but namely Hogan and Jeff Hardy at the top of the list.

Finally despite going in a more realistic direction, HCTP included some of the best backstage arenas in video games. I think everybody remembers Time Square where you could commander a helicopter to raise you in the air so you could hit a sky high body slam. However there was fun to be had everywhere and even racing around with the fork lift and the bike led to hours of mindless entertainment.

While SYM made the bigger impression, I acknowledged that HCTP was the pinnacle of the series and I couldn't wait to see how THQ/Yuke's would improve upon it next. Maybe next time we'd get better legends, maybe they'd include springboard moves and look to make the gameplay even more dynamic. I was already making a list of guys/girls I wanted to see in season mode and I was looking forward to getting hands on with the new generation of WWE talent like Mordecai, Gail Kim, Akio, Shannon Moore, La Resistance etc.

WWE SmackDown vs. Raw

So THQ/Yuke's had somehow managed to top themselves with HCTP so there was plenty of expectation and excitement over SmackDown vs. RAW. However as I mentioned earlier, in order to make a quality video game, you need a quality game but you also need a strong license and the WWE was going through a rebuild. SVR wasn't going to have the benefit of new exciting wrestlers to play as, they were going to have to get creative and SVR just dropped the ball.

There were two disappointments for me. Firstly, season mode had reverted to story mode again and had become linear and was based solely on whether you carried a championship or not. Instead of a four week build, shows only lasted three weeks and if your brand didn't have a PPV that month, the story mode would skip ahead. They also tried to add voice acting and the first attempt was extremely rough. None of the WWE talent had much if any voice acting experience so they'd just read these lines like they were on somas and the material wasn't that great to begin with. While HCTP season mode hasn't aged that well, this was a notable step backwards.

The other was the roster. THQ/Yuke's had their hands tied with Brock, Goldberg, Austin etc. but they were still shy twelve roster slots from the year before. Since this was SmackDown vs. Raw and not SmackDown: Word Life I thought they'd focus more on deep cuts. Loading up I was expecting to see the likes of Mordecai, Gail Kim, Luther Reigns, Tyson Tomko, Eugene, The Basham Bros, Lita, Hurricane & Rosey etc. instead the only new faces we saw were returning characters like JBL, Hardcore Holly, Scotty 2 Hotty, Chuck Palumbo and a few new faces in Rene Dupree, Mark Jindrak and Garrison Cade.

In fairness, roster is primarily a THQ/WWE call and outside of Lita it wasn't like any of those acts had been around long enough or were big names. It seemed like the focus was put on the graphics and all the character models looked fantastic and by this point Yuke's were really pushing the PS2's capabilities with their models. The down-side was that it made the CAWs stick out like sore thumbs since they had barely been improved so you'd have to these high poly models squaring off against these low poly approximations.

SVR also marked a noticeable shift in focus to simulation style gameplay. Backstage hardcore matches were all but gone with the exception of the Parking Lot Brawl match from the Eddie/Cena SmackDown match. This was actually another down-side since those falls count anywhere backstage arenas were so much fun to play with and was an easy way to get non-wrestling fans into the action.

It wasn't all terrible, the core gameplay was still HCTP with a few extras thrown in. The action was now displayed from a standard WWE hard camera, so it better resembled the WWE production. There was now a babyface/heel bar that would charge everytime you hit a babyface move or heeled it up, adding an extra layer of strategy and playing into the psychology of a WWE match. Commentary was back and while it would get repetitive early on it was much improved over JBI with both JR/Lawler and Cole/Tazz included in the game. Create a PPV made it's PS2 debut and while it didn't have the rating mechanic of the PS1 entries, made it easier to simulate. There was also a Create a Title and Title match option in Exhibition, so again you could simulate the action.

The entry also marked the debut of the challenge system where the game would give you challenges to complete in exhibition with unlockables and cash incentives. If nothing else it was a good excuse to play through certain matches or scenarios you otherwise may have skipped out on. This also marked the shift from in-house THQ/Yuke's music to licensed music and was the only time music was played during the matches. My exposure to this actually came through DOR and I'd argue DOR had the better music because they cut out all the Powerman 5000 songs that were by far the weakest songs on the SVR track.

Bring The Noise > World's Collide as the menu music as well.

On release, I rented it out, played through the season mode and decided I didn't need it. 2004 was a crazy year in gaming and since I already bought DOR a couple of months prior and was still getting plenty of use out of HCTP, I really didn't need it. It's only been in recent years where I felt compelled to buy it and put together a save I would have enjoyed back in 2004. I've slowly but surely been fiddling around with it, trying to create guys like Chavo Classic in all their low poly glory while brushing up on that era to get a feel on what a proper season mode would have looked like. I've slowly morphed into that guy who makes his own model train play-sets, and I'm OK with it.

I think the Angle is my favorite track from SDvR. I've been meaning to do an EPIC No Mercy post. Maybe after I get back from Easter. Course I'll probably just scroll endlessly on YT.

Mate, I was so disappointed when 616 Entertainment admitted he muted the OST in Day of Reckoning. I've spent so many hours watching his WWE video game retrospectives, clearly I didn't account for taste.

BP DOR Rankings
Breaking Benjamin - Polyamorous
pre-thing - Can't Stop
Breaking Benjamin - Firefly
Core - The Angle
Tantric - Chasing After
Swollen Members - Bottom Line
Shocore - Bonecracker
Styles of Beyond - Superstars
ZebraHead - Falling Apart

I don't hate any of the tracks and they all sort of work together to put across this new fresh era in WWE.

Going back to HCTP and you touched on the match where everyone wanted a piece of Brock - even Torrie Wilson but that was just 1 of 3 memorable ads/trailers.

The first had this awesome piece of vision where Jeff Hardy hits a Swanton on Brock, only for Brock to catch him and turn it into a F5. Of course 'countering' superstars in the air wouldn't become a thing until the dying days of the THQ era, somewhere between '12-'14. You can still see it in it's potato glory on YouTube.

The other to this day still gets me fired up to play HCTP.



Find me a warm blooded teenage wrestling fan who wouldn't want to buy this game and I'll find you a liar.