Apr 18, 2024 0:34:03 GMT c said:

Apr 18, 2024 0:33:23 GMT Michinokudriver said:

so is it canon now that Tony just does whatever the Bucks want him to do?

They are the EVPS, they are just doing their jobs.

This promo was probably my favorite one they’ve done in AEW. Thought it really helped tell their story. Also.. weird that TK is just sitting their like he is the guy responsible for hitting their music. Okada was smooth like butter in his delivery too. Really liked his addition.

Apr 18, 2024 0:47:46 GMT c said:

Okada's super fast adjustment to US style and TV clearly shows WWE make a real mistake not taking him.

If the price tag in him is true.. I think they made the right move. It’s going to be a long time for Tony to get his return on investment on Okada and hope that by the time he starts being profitable for him, his contract doesn’t end and he decide that now he’d like to do it in WWE also.

Yes I watch.

They've dropped the ball on Okada. It's time to admit it. He's wheel number 3 on a Young Buck tricycle instead of being a main event guy.

But an eventual match with PAC will be great. If anything because PAC is a weapon and I'd love to see Okada lit up.

But it's all so mid card.

Apr 19, 2024 4:07:08 GMT NATH45 said:

Yes I watch.

They've dropped the ball on Okada. It's time to admit it. He's wheel number 3 on a Young Buck tricycle instead of being a main event guy.

But an eventual match with PAC will be great. If anything because PAC is a weapon and I'd love to see Okada lit up.

But it's all so mid card.

Does Okada need to be the main event guy right away?

I say that because I have never watched five minutes of wrestling in Japan and I have no idea who the guy is other than what I’ve seen on AEW.

If AEW ever wants to be competition for WWE, it needs viewers like me. There aren’t enough AEW die hards to give WWE a run for its money.

Throwing him in the main event because he was something big in Japan.. sorry but.. don’t care. Build him up and make me care about him before he is leading the show. It’s the same reason I didn’t care about Shinsuke until WWE gave me a reason to. His name alone did nothing for me. Same here.

He was the company's top guy. And a highest contested free agent. He's one of the best in the world, when he wants to be.

Two ways of doing it, he either walks into AEW much like Ospreay - being presented as a big deal and going after Bryan " I'm also a big deal " Danielson. It's an easy transition to title contention upon completing this feud. Or, having beaten Danielson or someone of similar calibre, he goes for Mox, or Swerve, or Edge, etc. He's the hunter.

Or perhaps, instead of exhaust all these big matches early. He starts from the bottom and racks up win after win every week until the big names take note and call him out. He's the hunted.

What they're doing now, is like TNA hiring John Cena in the late 2000s and making him the third name in Team 3D.

Okada still adjusting to AEW as well. Put him in the main event, it will be a good run but not a great run. He not gotten to work the American style since TNA, and let's face it, he was not a star in TNA. So he needs time to change up his moveset and attitude to what works best for him in America.

Also some fans still have no clue why there was a lot of hype about Okada since they never watched him in Japan. So Okada still needs to show himself off to the US fans.

It pains me to say this, AEW are a lot smarter than that.

They know who Okada is.

They know, but the fans do not. Your average person who is watching this fed where some of their favorite WWE guys are now working are not gonna see this asian dude as a big deal just for signing with the company. They will not get behind him until they knows his moves and personality at the very least. He is the Buck's third wheel for many simply because they have not seen much of him at all before.

Tony will build him fast, but he needs some build before he is challenging Swerve for the title.

AEW doesn't have casual fans.

Sorry, Okada should have walked into AEW like Cody Rhodes returning at Wrestlemania - with the machine telling the fans, that this mother fucker is a big fucking deal. And then never look back.

Apr 18, 2024 10:54:05 GMT X-zero said:

Apr 17, 2024 23:26:49 GMT @theshow said:

Will be tuning in for Claudio/Ospreay.

As the biggest Mercedes/Sasha fan on this board, I couldn’t care less about her so far in AEW. Her presentation is off. She should have came in with a cocky/shit talking attitude instead of this happy to be here babyface bullshit. She can be a strong babyface but it works best if she’s a heel first and then the fans eventually get behind her.

Not sure about biggest but it will take more then a big signing to save the division. But they still can save this signing but they will have to tear down to build it back stronger.

I don’t know anything about the totality of the AEW Women’s Division, but Timeless Toni Storm is literally the only AEW content I seek out. I hope they’re still doing good stuff there, because some of the stuff I’ve seen is more interesting/entertaining character work than anything I’ve seen from Mone.

Apr 19, 2024 12:31:33 GMT mikec said:

Apr 18, 2024 10:54:05 GMT X-zero said:

Not sure about biggest but it will take more then a big signing to save the division. But they still can save this signing but they will have to tear down to build it back stronger.

I don’t know anything about the totality of the AEW Women’s Division, but Timeless Toni Storm is literally the only AEW content I seek out. I hope they’re still doing good stuff there, because some of the stuff I’ve seen is more interesting/entertaining character work than anything I’ve seen from Mone.

Characters are usually better then ring work to get over. But doing matches even the low card guys tend to do better the women's matches in AEW.

Apr 19, 2024 5:00:08 GMT NATH45 said:

What they're doing now, is like TNA hiring John Cena in the late 2000s and making him the third name in Team 3D.

Not a good comparison. @jtj is right, Okada is a relatively unknown name to the casual Western wrestling fan. A lot of the core AEW audience knows his name, but do they watch NJPW enough to really know him? To know that he is the almost unbeatable Final Boss of NJPW who has been the top champion the majority of the time for over a decade? He does compare to John Cena in that sense - being the invincible perpetual champion and face of the company - but he does not compare in terms of fame to the Western audience.

What's my evidence? Well, I sometimes browse squaredcircle on reddit, which has to be the largest gathering of internet wrestling fans. Much like PW, a mere 1-5% of the discussion is related to NJPW - or anything outside WWE and AEW. I often have to search for discussion related to NJPW shows, even the bigger shows (except WK/Dominion), instead of it being there on the top page.

Debuting Okada and fast-tracking him to the main event is not a bad idea, but it's certainly not the only idea. You could book him in exhibition matches like Ospreay, but then you have two NJPW debutants doing the same thing at the same time. Placing him with the Bucks is a great idea and I really like how it's playing out so far. Okada doesn't have to talk much, he does his talking in the ring with a fresh heel character, he's getting stuck in there. He's being heavily protected as well, not even close to being defeated.

Apr 19, 2024 12:31:33 GMT mikec said:

Apr 18, 2024 10:54:05 GMT X-zero said:

Not sure about biggest but it will take more then a big signing to save the division. But they still can save this signing but they will have to tear down to build it back stronger.

I don’t know anything about the totality of the AEW Women’s Division, but Timeless Toni Storm is literally the only AEW content I seek out. I hope they’re still doing good stuff there, because some of the stuff I’ve seen is more interesting/entertaining character work than anything I’ve seen from Mone.

Really got to wonder, why are we getting Timeless Toni and WWE did not.  Fits WWE so much better and it was so detailed from the start clearly Toni been thinking about this for some time.  I am willing to bet she pitched this there and creative turned it down.  Tony better be prepared to pay top dollar for Toni, because you know damn well WWE gonna want her back after she did two amazing characters now in AEW, and is drawing people to AEW who do not really care for much else AEW is doing.

I agree though Timeless Toni is on a different level from Mone.  Mone better be able to back up her ego in the ring, or AEW fans will rapidly tear her apart.  Thankfully there are two women's belts so when she HHH's one of them, there can still be a division.

Apr 19, 2024 17:48:11 GMT c said:

Really got to wonder, why are we getting Timeless Toni and WWE did not. 

The theory I've read is that RJ City is having a huge hand on the act. I don't think anything official has come out but considering how Toni took some of RJ's Hey(EW) ideas on board pre-Timeless and how involved he is in the vignettes there's some merit to it.

It's been a god-send for her. Even before her embarrassing WWE call-up, Toni was struggling to find any traction with her character. She was a surfer/rocker girl who spoke with a posh accent but also acted quirky. Even in the early days of AEW, as good as her matches were with Jamie Hayter, character-wise she was floundering as one of those ex-WWE mean girls. The decision to have her pick a character and go in that direction has really helped her and the division out. Not only is she attracting an audience, but she's also been effective at introducing Mariah May and Deonna Purazzo into the mix and making them feel relevant.

I don't think every segment is a winner, but as a whole it's been a highlight and synergises well with Warner.

She did some good stuff as Mean Girl Toni Storm but yeah nowhere on the level that Timeless is.

If this was an RJ thing he earned his keep with this one idea alone.

May really shocks me being able to slot right into Toni's original gimmick. Not a hard gimmick to do, but always weird to take on a mantle and excel doing so.  And should the grand angle be What Ever Happened to Baby Jane, she is perfect for the Crawford role, compared to Toni's Davis.  They keep dancing around this theme, and almost certain it is the source of the idea.

I imagine only being 25 WWE may have eyes on her, but I also think she will be considered too stiff for WWE. Not sure how WWE had Purazzo and let her go. Her submission style would have worked so well on TV I think despite what creative believed.

Apr 19, 2024 13:42:10 GMT Emperor said:

Apr 19, 2024 5:00:08 GMT NATH45 said:

What they're doing now, is like TNA hiring John Cena in the late 2000s and making him the third name in Team 3D.

Not a good comparison. @jtj is right, Okada is a relatively unknown name to the casual Western wrestling fan. A lot of the core AEW audience knows his name, but do they watch NJPW enough to really know him? To know that he is the almost unbeatable Final Boss of NJPW who has been the top champion the majority of the time for over a decade? He does compare to John Cena in that sense - being the invincible perpetual champion and face of the company - but he does not compare in terms of fame to the Western audience.

What's my evidence? Well, I sometimes browse squaredcircle on reddit, which has to be the largest gathering of internet wrestling fans. Much like PW, a mere 1-5% of the discussion is related to NJPW - or anything outside WWE and AEW. I often have to search for discussion related to NJPW shows, even the bigger shows (except WK/Dominion), instead of it being there on the top page.

Debuting Okada and fast-tracking him to the main event is not a bad idea, but it's certainly not the only idea. You could book him in exhibition matches like Ospreay, but then you have two NJPW debutants doing the same thing at the same time. Placing him with the Bucks is a great idea and I really like how it's playing out so far. Okada doesn't have to talk much, he does his talking in the ring with a fresh heel character, he's getting stuck in there. He's being heavily protected as well, not even close to being defeated.

The company was launched by 4 guys who were primarily in NJPW, off the backs of perhaps the most significant and influential brand / faction of the last 20 years, Bullet Club.

I'd concede, but.... Bruv, Will Ospreay. NJPW's most significant export in many years. And he's being presented the way Okada should be.

Although a mere handful of people may talk about NJPW, AEW fans know who The Rainmaker is.



Watch that debut, and tell me AEW fans don't know who Okada is.

AEW doesn't attract the " casual western " fan, evidence is in the viewership, or lack there of. It's a niche product, for niche fans - which is the nuts and bolts of every counterpoint when ratings as discussed.

Bucks had built up over three years the core of the roster on Being the Elite though and the Elite ripped through the US indy scene. Sure some watched them in NJPW or AAA, but they worked primarily US indy dates and RoH.  All In was basically a Being the Elite based show.  Only people who did not debut in AEW were Cole and Ryan for obvious reasons.  RIP Cole, Bucks did him so wrong with the poisoned Red Bull.

Okada in the US was rare after his TNA run, and his TNA run was disappointing at best.  And if AEW was merely hardcore fans of AEW, the ratings would remain stable with lower deviations within the shows.  The deviations are casual fans coming and going.

Sorry, what... suddenly the significance of NJPW in this entire story of AEW is non-existent?

AEW and WWE wouldn't have apparently fought over Okada if no one knew who he was.

Jesus Christ.

TNA sucks.

And those ratings deviations are people like me, tuning in and then tuning out because something silly has just happened and they'd rather tap out than endure whatever is next.

To be honest, one of my biggest peeves with Khan’s booking is his ability to take a name talent with internet credibility, and make him or her feel like any Johnny Come Lately after three weeks. He should be doing the opposite of that to be an effective booker. Turn ordinary workers into stars. Not turn stars into ordinary workers.

The run of the Elite that lead to AEW was in RoH and NJPW, but as soon as the fed formed the entire Elite crew basically cut ties with NJPW. And only a minority of AEW fans have seen the work of the Elite in NJPW. Also Moxley was a big deal in his NJPW because AEW was not sharing talent at that time, and would not for two more years.

So yeah, Okada is a guy that most of the internet hears is a huge deal, but I doubt even half the AEW audience seen him work outside of AEW. It is like WWE fans not knowing what people did before WWE or after they leave WWE. How many people seen the first time Asuka and Iyo were on a team together? Or even caught Kairi in Stardom?  I would say less than .1% watched Shayna in Bloodsport and even that is being generous.  Wrestling fans like their fed, and only a minority watch guys outside of it.

Jesus Christ, you're talking like Okada is Kommander.

You've been arguing for 4 years that AEW has a smartened up niche audience, then all of a sudden, because you can't concede, suddenly they're all dumbasses who have never seen a NJPW match.

Apr 20, 2024 8:57:46 GMT NATH45 said:

The company was launched by 4 guys who were primarily in NJPW, off the backs of perhaps the most significant and influential brand / faction of the last 20 years, Bullet Club.

Fair, but Bullet Club transcends NJPW in a way that Okada or any other Japanese wrestler did not.

Apr 20, 2024 8:57:46 GMT NATH45 said:

I'd concede, but.... Bruv, Will Ospreay. NJPW's most significant export in many years. And he's being presented the way Okada should be.

That's fair. Ospreay is on a similar level of known/unknown to Okada. He's worked almost exclusively in NJPW for the past decade.

Apr 20, 2024 8:57:46 GMT NATH45 said:

Although a mere handful of people may talk about NJPW, AEW fans know who The Rainmaker is.

I'm not denying AEW fans know who he is, my point is most of them won't know his "Cena-like" status in Japan. So perhaps some will be taken aback if he is pushed straight to the top.

I'm just arguing semantics at this point. I think presenting Okada as a big deal out of the gate is a good idea. I absolutely agree with that. I also think that the way Okada is being booked now is good, and that he is being presented as a big deal, even if he isn't front and centre of the company. AEW doesn't book like that in general. The AEW World Champion is not omnipresent in the same way a top WWE star is. Maybe that's not the best way to do things, but it is how they do things.

Re: Okada. I mostly defer to Emperor but will add that I agree with both points being made, and have a couple thoughts. I actually expected a bigger debut for him than what we got. In a way I liked it because it was an actual surprise (not that he signed, but how/when he showed up), but I expected what NATH45 said: that he would get the superstar treatment.

But I get why they went this route. Emp mentioned how little traction NJPW gets on wreddit and the rest of social media in the west. And those are good points. It does matter overall even though it feels like their shows do well here. It really doesn't compare.

I'm fine with letting it play out, but tomorrow night's match with PAC is going to be a big turning point one way or another. They brought Okada in as his Rainmaker heel gimmick and aligned him with his long-time friends The Young Bucks who have been bigging him up since his debut, which is great. But now it's time to show the world who you actually are.

Match with Kingston was good. Putting the Continental title on him right away was also good. But he's done squashes since and tomorrow night's match needs to be a barn burner. I have faith it will be, and everyone will see what NJPW fans have seen for the past decade, and why this guy is such a huge signing...but it NEEDS to be. If it isn't, then we are having an entirely different conversation on Monday.

...

It's also tough to compare Okada's debut to Ospreay's debut. I get why they went the way they did. Ospreay can go on the mic, and Okada can't, unfortunately. He does his talking in the ring, so to have him come out and be brash and bold and brag every week like Ospreay is doing wouldn't work. Sticking Okada with the Bucks is a good way to get him a mouthpiece and put him in high profile segments right away, so I get why they did that.

Has TK posted anything touting the decline in this week’s ratings without being able to promote AEW’s biggest draw?

PAC and Okada should be a banger. PAC always goes hard, and Okada even matching him will make it a great match.

And here is something to think about, despite everyone being smark fans, and it being mentioned on AEW TV several times, how many AEW fans know which faction in Japan Okada was leader of for a decade almost? Figure maybe three or four people here can name it, but doubt most can without looking it up since it was not mentioned since Okada returned to AEW, nor has he interacted with the members of it in on the AEW roster since returning.

This is what I mean by people know he is big in Japan, but have not really watched him in Japan.

Apr 20, 2024 15:57:00 GMT KJ said:

Has TK posted anything touting the decline in this week’s ratings without being able to promote AEW’s biggest draw?

Are you talking about the 295k for Rampage, or just in general?

It's CHAOS, there.. someone said it. And again, for the sake of an argument we're talking like Okada is a generic luchadore that needs to be slowly introduced to the audience.

2 weeks in, and Tama Tonga is a bigger threat to everyone than Okada in AEW at this point because WWE has told us, he's a bad mother fucker. A month or so in, Okada is carrying The Young Buck's bags.

I have a proposal. Dump the current 4 pillars, completely. At this point, it's only MJF who has lived up to his potential. And really, they're all out anyway.

Swerve wins the title from Joe.

Jay White walks put and stands in the opposite corner. Okada comes out and stands in the third corner. Then finally, Ospreay in the forth.

No one says a thing, no gestures. Just an acknowledgement of one another.

These are your superstar 4 pillars fighting for the World Championship from here on out. Every Dynamite it's about the contenders chasing and the Champion defending. There's no side quests, no Ass Boys or Young Bucks or shenanigans, just the dynamic between these 4 men and a World Championship.

That would be really cool.

While we're still on this topic, the assumption that a superstar has to be known for them to be presented as a star is questionable. Look at Jade Cargill in WWE.