Do you think the chase is the only way it works? WWE had longterm babyfaces at the start with Hogan and Bruno. Modern wrestling (at the time) was being influenced by edge and shorter attention spans so WWF started embracing the NWA style of a long term heel with a babyface chase. Good formula with the Rumble being the major boost into their superbowl. Babyfaces triumphing was common and expected, hence the shocking WM2k finish. It worked. They'd usually drop it at Summerslam or Survivor Series and the chase from WM Season begins again.

Cena was the longest run for a face at the time, but it was as a heel more or less. Punk was face but turned heel during his run. It's tight rope to book things really. A heel who always cheats sucks, but if they're an ass kicker they get cheered.

Can a longterm babyface reign work or do they need the chase conflict to flourish? And you can't do that being the champion. Maybe that's the ultimate case of not needing the belt. Heels NEED the belt more so that's why they get it.

Batista was a face for his entire first reign as well (almost a year; relinquished due to injury). He stayed over the entire time in a big way.

Honestly, I think WWE has leaned too hard into long title reigns. Everyone gets this multi-month reign, and they seem afraid to pull the trigger until one of the big two (WM and SummerSlam).

Jul 31, 2024 2:19:48 GMT KJ said:

Batista was a face for his entire first reign as well (almost a year; relinquished due to injury). He stayed over the entire time in a big way.

Honestly, I think WWE has leaned too hard into long title reigns. Everyone gets this multi-month reign, and they seem afraid to pull the trigger until one of the big two (WM and SummerSlam).

There are benefits to those quick transition champions or even those champions that only get a month or two. It's finding the right mix for that. Palate cleanser

Jul 31, 2024 18:47:28 GMT @homme said:

Jul 31, 2024 2:19:48 GMT KJ said:

Batista was a face for his entire first reign as well (almost a year; relinquished due to injury). He stayed over the entire time in a big way.

Honestly, I think WWE has leaned too hard into long title reigns. Everyone gets this multi-month reign, and they seem afraid to pull the trigger until one of the big two (WM and SummerSlam).

There are benefits to those quick transition champions or even those champions that only get a month or two. It's finding the right mix for that. Palate cleanser

Absolutely.

Rhea getting injured and Liv winning the title was a huge jolt for everyone involved (and the division at large).

I always think of Tommy Rich's surprise win over Harley Race in 1981. It was such a shock win, granted only for 4 days, but he was called former World Champion for the rest of his mid-card career. He was so popular, but also that was back in the days of the NWA power struggle.

The chase is the tried-and-true old school way to make as much money as they can. In the territory days, they had the traveling champion, at least in the NWA territories. So, there could be multiple chases with or without the champion in town all the time. It was used a lot with Race and with Flair early on. I'm sure even before, but I wasn't around yet.

Faces chase the heel champion, often having to overcome the champions cohorts. Heels, attack the face champion, often posing as a massive threat or sometimes putting the champ on the "DL." Heels are never the "underdog," that's the face's role.

I'm not saying anything new here, most of us know the drill being longtime fans. The main thing is finding the right players for the roles. Flair chased Harley, then Dusty chased Flair and Sting chased Flair...everyone chased Flair. Nobody really chased Hogan and I don't think Hogan chased anyone, because it was Hogan.

I think it comes down to who is holding the title. Does that wrestler "need" the title? Hogan and Flair needed the title to be important in whatever federation they were in. Where someone like The Undertaker and Dusty never did. It was cool when they were involved, but they could have meaningful feuds regardless of titles or not.

I'm just kind of babbling here and I'm probably off topic now. LOL

Edit: Also, there's the fine line of hotshotting the booking if a title reign is too short. In the end, you're never going to make everyone happy. Write the storyline and believe in the players to get it over. There's so many factors that go into it.

I wouldn't qualify Cena as a heel. Some of his main rivals, like Orton and Edge, were cut from the Scott Hall cloth as "cool heels", and Cena, being fairly cheesy by comparison, got booed by a lot of adults; obviously, his behavior was nonetheless babyface.

I think an alternative universe where Muhammad Hassan gets to stick around might make for a very different Cena. The xenophobia angle would have resulted in a much more straightforward face/heel dynamic, and we probably wouldn't be posing this question right now.

Cena never had the right rival for him, really. I think that's just dumb Vince McMahon booking more than anything. Christian could have also been a good dance partner, since he was always willing to play the "chickenshit" heel (sometimes to ridiculous extents, too), which I think is usually the missing component. Everybody wants to be cool ...