Since the success of Trish Stratus WWE has been focused on developing and training their own homegrown female talents, especially in recent years witht eh creation of the performance center. While this has led to several entertaining characters and a bunch of solid workers and even some very good workers, I think it is clear that at this point they haven't created a truly elite in-ring worker 

They've been close a couple of times recently 

Charlotte can have great moty caliber matches if given someone that is also very talented to work with, but on the other hand, really struggles to carry lesser talents.     

Naomi is really athletic, is really creative with her wrestling style, and can carry lesser wrestlers decently. But has struggled to have a truly standout match for whatever reason. 

Alexa and Carmella are great characters and portray their characters well in their matches, but at the same time struggle having consistently entertaining matches despite in Alexa's case getting the chance to wrestle some great workers. . 

So my question is, is it possible for the WWE to develop a truly great in-ring wrestler from scratch? Or does wrestling on the indies
and getting exposed to a lot of different styles and talent levels give the indy talents WWE signs an insurmountable advantage over the homegrown talents? Also, why do many of even the more talented homegrown talents seem to struggle to carry and elevate lesser talents? 

With a lot of these home-grown talents, they're all playing catch-up. Not only in terms of in-ring experience, but actually watching the product and getting that knowledge. You look at a performer like Sasha Banks and you can tell she's been studying a lot of Junior Heavyweight Japan style matches and it incorporates that into her matches.

The other problem is that we're being exposed to these women very early into their careers. It must be difficult to get over when you develop a bad reputation among fans and management and never get that opportunity to hone your craft.

Personally I would put Charlotte right up there as one of the best WWE female performers of all-time. To reach that status her father had, she'd have to stick at it for another 5 years and get the opportunity to work on top. She's received more opportunities than a lot of other women in the past, but at times it's still treated like a niche.

It doesn't help they put her with women who on paper have no business being in the ring with her. Mella has a ton of personality, but it's difficult to buy her as an ass-kicker.

I basically regard Sasha as homegrown. I know she spent a little bit of time on the indies but she was hardly working amongst the vanguard of the wrestling scene. And we all know the story of how Regal was the only one who thought she was worth hiring when everyone else at WWE thought she was nothing special. BP's point about her being a lifelong fan is fair enough, and she's talked about watching AJW growing up, but she's basically unrecognisable now compared to what she was before developmental.

May 9, 2018 6:24:59 GMT @admin said:

I basically regard Sasha as homegrown. I know she spent a little bit of time on the indies but she was hardly working amongst the vanguard of the wrestling scene. And we all know the story of how Regal was the only one who thought she was worth hiring when everyone else at WWE thought she was nothing special. BP's point about her being a lifelong fan is fair enough, and she's talked about watching AJW growing up, but she's basically unrecognisable now compared to what she was before developmental.

This is true, I can definitely see the argument for Sasha being homegrown, as her indy career was negligible. You can probably make a similar case for someone like Melina, to be honest. 

I also think given longer match times, and more freedom someone like Michelle Mccool could have been seen as an elite in-ring talent. You could even argue that she already is given what she produced during the whole "no punching, no kicking" period.

I also think talents like Alexa and Carmella were hurt by the 4 horsewomen getting all the focus and take over matches in NXT. Neither of them got takeover matches, so they never had the opportunity to take in part in the big showy matches that takeovers usually provide. I also think Alexa's ring work will be looked at more positively once she gets to work as a face. She does have to get better at the whole being scared of taking strikes thing though.  

Depends on what you define an 'elite' talent as. As I would suggest what WWE considers an elite worker as, and what the internet considers an elite worker on the independents as could be two completely different things.

I don't necessarily think working the indies and being exposed to different styles makes someone a better worker, working with great storytellers makes you a better worker regardless of whether it's the indies or NJPW, or WWE. So, growing the balls to hit a tope suicida or learning which part of the thigh to slap for get a better sound doesn't mean much, if you can't tell a story.

But to answer the question, Charlotte is hands down the greatest female in-ring performer the WWE has produced from the ground up.

The matches also don't really work when WWE hinges on the match style where the face has to take the beating most of the time. Two of their most physically dominating women, Charlotte and Nia, are now faces, and both have to be faces in peril for 90% of the time in their matches. That coupled with the fact that they faced ladies who have no business being so dominant in matches, Carmella and Alexa, and we got the shitshow that was the two Backlash title matches.

But when given the correct match layout and the correct opponent, Charlotte is definitely someone who we can consider elite. The thing with Charlotte is that she definitely has a presence. Just the way she carries herself in the ring makes her feel like a step above girls who may be technically more sound in the ring than her. And as such, even if she produces a clunker match now and then, she is still considered top-level and pure WWE production from the ground up.

Would definitely consider Charlotte an elite talent. Not being able to carry shouldn't hurt her legacy. The iron sharpen iron thing she says means good wrestlers bring out her best. So the opposite that bad wrestlers will bring out her worst is also true. And if we are counting Sasha then her too.

Also don't think Alexa should be grouped with Carmella. The only thing they have in common is they are better talkers then fighters. But Alexa is still better then Carmella in every area. And Alexa doesn't pull good inring people down.

May 10, 2018 4:35:56 GMT X-zero said:

Would definitely consider Charlotte an elite talent. Not being able to carry shouldn't hurt her legacy. The iron sharpen iron thing she says means good wrestlers bring out her best. So the opposite that bad wrestlers will bring out her worst is also true. And if we are counting Sasha then her too.

Also don't think Alexa should be grouped with Carmella. The only thing they have in common is they are better talkers then fighters. But Alexa is still better then Carmella in every area. And Alexa doesn't pull good inring people down.

Wouldn't not being able to carry take her out of the 'elite' category?

Not to say that she's a scrub at all, but there should be something differentiating elite (top of the industry) from simply very good and I'd think the old being able to carry a broomstick to an all-time classic would be an excellent bar.

What's Charlotte's best example of getting the best out of a weak opponent?

May 10, 2018 23:25:00 GMT @admin said:

What's Charlotte's best example of getting the best out of a weak opponent?

Maybe Alexa at Survivor Series?  She had a singles match with Lana that wasn't horrible too. 

May 9, 2018 6:55:35 GMT dex said:

May 9, 2018 6:24:59 GMT @admin said:

I basically regard Sasha as homegrown. I know she spent a little bit of time on the indies but she was hardly working amongst the vanguard of the wrestling scene. And we all know the story of how Regal was the only one who thought she was worth hiring when everyone else at WWE thought she was nothing special. BP's point about her being a lifelong fan is fair enough, and she's talked about watching AJW growing up, but she's basically unrecognisable now compared to what she was before developmental.

This is true, I can definitely see the argument for Sasha being homegrown, as her indy career was negligible. You can probably make a similar case for someone like Melina, to be honest. 

I also think given longer match times, and more freedom someone like Michelle Mccool could have been seen as an elite in-ring talent. You could even argue that she already is given what she produced during the whole "no punching, no kicking" period.

I also think talents like Alexa and Carmella were hurt by the 4 horsewomen getting all the focus and take over matches in NXT. Neither of them got takeover matches, so they never had the opportunity to take in part in the big showy matches that takeovers usually provide. I also think Alexa's ring work will be looked at more positively once she gets to work as a face. She does have to get better at the whole being scared of taking strikes thing though.  

Along those same lines of Melina and Sasha is AJ Lee. WWE plucked her really early into her wrestling career and her work in FCW was the first time she didn't look green in the ring.

I agree with your comments about Michelle McCool. She really does deserve a lot more credit for the match quality she achieved during her era. Even if you were to look for the best TV matches during the 2009-2011 era, the overwhelming majority of them would belong to Michelle. She even managed to master a style of tag team matches with Layla that made the usual 'throwaway divas tag team match' actually become a solid match.

One of the reasons there isn't a big list of women to fit this "elite, homegrown" category is because WWE was in much different place when they were developing a higher number of homegrown talent. They didn't want them to be elite and actively worked to prevent it.

To LS, point about WWE preventing their female talents from being elite in the past. I also think that during the heyday of the playboy era, signing women with athletic ability was not a priority.

Women like Maria and Ashley are big examples of the slow and uncoordinated model types they were signing. Even Candice Michelle's who clearly put a lot of effort into trying to get better was never really athletic to be truly believable as the wrestler they pushed her as. He matches during her big push have not aged super well.

Thinking sort of along those same lines, I don't know that the WWE system can produce many elite home-grown talent at all.

I'm recalling specifically a comment Randy Orton once made; in his earlier years he was more of a high flyer but was told to knock it off because he didn't need those moves to get over.

Do only what you need to get over.
Do as little as possible to get the job done.

And, to be sure, there are reasons for this mentality (longevity/wear and tear on the body when you wrestle five nights a week) but it also ultimately limits you. You can't have that extra gear to tap into for a Big-Time Match unless you practice it, and you're discouraged from doing that kind of stuff at house shows. So where are you going to get your epic performances from if you can't get the time in to work on it?