Jun 23, 2018 4:36:30 GMT KING KID said:

Shaqiri and Xhaxa scoring against Serbia and doing the Albanian Eagle with their hands is my favorite part of the World Cup right now. Fucking represent!

I'm definitely with you on this one.   That had to be the single most satisfying goals of both of their careers.

The GOAT argument is difficult in any sport and football is no exception. There's no question that what sets Messi and Ronaldo apart from everyone else other than perhaps Pele is the sheer consistency over the course of a decade. No other players hold a candle to those 3 in that respect.

Of course, the consistency is borne of a change in the level of professionalism across the game compared to the game in the 20th century. And so perhaps you need to allow some slack and account for that difference in mentality, which brings Maradona, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, and others into the conversation.

Very difficult to draw any firm opinions on the subject, but the best player I've personally ever seen is Messi.

Unbelievable. No way that Germany's going home this early now.

And with only 10 men no less.

Jun 23, 2018 4:36:30 GMT KING KID said:

Shaqiri and Xhaxa scoring against Serbia and doing the Albanian Eagle with their hands is my favorite part of the World Cup right now. Fucking represent!

Can you tell the story behind this? These guys play for switzerland right? Why did the Albanian flag get brought out?

They’re of Albanian descent and from Kosovo. Serbia and Albania had that war, or massacre, where Slobodon Milosevic was leading the Serbs and pretty much killing Albanians. It wasn’t that long ago, either. They then split away into their own lands and ended Yugoslavia. In the soccer world, the Serbia/Albania showdowns have been wars between the fans. Look into it. It’s wild.

Jun 24, 2018 14:54:17 GMT KING KID said:

They’re of Albanian descent and from Kosovo. Serbia and Albania had that war, or massacre, where Slobodon Milosevic was leading the Serbs and pretty much killing Albanians. It wasn’t that long ago, either. They then split away into their own lands and ended Yugoslavia. In the soccer world, the Serbia/Albania showdowns have been wars between the fans. Look into it. It’s wild.

And for those who don't know Kid is of Albanian descent himself.    I know he had to have gotten HYPE seeing those goals.       

Definitely super hyped. I’m pulling for Switzerland.

With Columbia eliminating Poland and Senegal/Japan thing; Group H has become super exciting. I’m going to stick with my guns and say Colombia and Japan advance.

Looking deeper, if Argentina wins, they’re looking at France as the most likely first round match. Huge game. The biggest will probably be Brazil versus Germany in a showdown that’s good enough to be the finals of the World Cup.

Death, taxes and LT turning a sports thread into an inane ESPN style GOAT conversation.

Japan vs Senegal was a really enjoyable game, probably the second most entertaining match of the tournament so far. A number of groups are very delicately poised heading into the last fixtures - the very real possibility that some will be decided on goal difference/goals scored, or perhaps even the fair play table!

Jun 25, 2018 3:09:21 GMT @admin said:

Death, taxes and LT turning a sports thread into an inane ESPN style GOAT conversation.

Japan vs Senegal was a really enjoyable game, probably the second most entertaining match of the tournament so far. A number of groups are very delicately poised heading into the last fixtures - the very real possibility that some will be decided on goal difference/goals scored, or perhaps even the fair play table!

Weirdly enough, I read about the “fair play” thing today and was like “what kind of European rule is this?!” Fair play is the most nice rule ever.

We are at that four games a day time now in the World Cup. In Group A, Russia and Uruguay have already clinched to advance. They are now playing for the top seed in Group A. They should both win giving Group A to Russia due to goal differential.

Group B is where it gets a little exciting and nerve wrecking, depending on who you are cheering for. Spain faces the already eliminated Morroco and for Spain, they advance with a win or a tie. A 2 goal loss here and a surprising 2 goal win by Iran or a tie could knock Spain out for consecutive group stage losses. The other game has huge implications between Iran and Ronaldo/Portugal. A win or a tie gets Portugal advancing. A win by Iran and a win by Spain will send Ronaldo and the Portuguese team home, in shock. I’m going to predict a Spain victory and a TIE between Portugal/Iran.

My predictions for today:

Russia- 1-0.
Uruguay- 2-0.
Spain- 4-1.
Portugal/Iran- 1-1.

That’ll give us Russia vs Portugal and Uruguay vs Spain. Awesome match ups. I do have this funny feeling that Iran stuns the world and wins and gives the home team, Russia, an easy first round match up.

Jun 25, 2018 13:13:09 GMT KING KID said:

We are at that four games a day time now in the World Cup. In Group A, Russia and Uruguay have already clinched to advance. They are now playing for the top seed in Group A. They should both win giving Group A to Russia due to goal differential.

Group B is where it gets a little exciting and nerve wrecking, depending on who you are cheering for. Spain faces the already eliminated Morroco and for Spain, they advance with a win or a tie. A 2 goal loss here and a surprising 2 goal win by Iran or a tie could knock Spain out for consecutive group stage losses. The other game has huge implications between Iran and Ronaldo/Portugal. A win or a tie gets Portugal advancing. A win by Iran and a win by Spain will send Ronaldo and the Portuguese team home, in shock. I’m going to predict a Spain victory and a TIE between Portugal/Iran.

My predictions for today:

Russia- 1-0.
Uruguay- 2-0.
Spain- 4-1.
Portugal/Iran- 1-1.

That’ll give us Russia vs Portugal and Uruguay vs Spain. Awesome match ups. I do have this funny feeling that Iran stuns the world and wins and gives the home team, Russia, an easy first round match up.

I just realized Russia is facing Uruguay. Since Uruguay is up 1-0, I will predict a 2-1 win for them! And Egypt and Saudi Arabia play to a 1-1 tie.

Bit of a VARce last night unfortunately. Portugal the real losers, that ridiculous penalty to Iran sees them having to face Uruguay rather than Russia in the second round, and also puts them in what looks like the tougher half of the draw.

To be fair, it had nothing to do with VAR and everything to do with the clown using it. I couldn't believe how long it took him to make a decision on the simplest of things, shambolic referee and he should be long away from refereeing any kind of match again.

France vs Denmark had to be one of the most dull games I've seen in a long time.

Jun 26, 2018 16:40:24 GMT pinkman said:

To be fair, it had nothing to do with VAR and everything to do with the clown using it. I couldn't believe how long it took him to make a decision on the simplest of things, shambolic referee and he should be long away from refereeing any kind of match again.

France vs Denmark had to be one of the most dull games I've seen in a long time.

When it's between two teams that are already locked into the KO stage, they tend to be boring.

Argentina survived, just barely.

That was awesomeness at its finest. I was just waiting for Messi to be the one to do it, but the job got done. Argentina advances and soccer fans can rejoice for the continuation of greatness.

As HR pointed out earlier, a soccer team's success is much less defined by the greatness of one player than in most American sports. Teamwork is the most important. How then can one recognise that a player like Messi is so much better than everyone else? Does he score the most goals? That's probably not the best metric. I don't even know if he's a striker, but it's typically only the strikers that achieve any kind of recognition.

Messi is an attacking midfielder, same kind of position, Pele, Maradona, and I believe Cruyff played.

Great drama. What a volley that was by Rojo, unbelievable technique from any player to finish like that, let alone a defender on his weaker foot. Argentina still really just papering over the cracks, slightly better with Banega in midfield rather than Biglia, but still largely terrible again throughout the majority of the match.

Jun 26, 2018 16:40:24 GMT pinkman said:

To be fair, it had nothing to do with VAR and everything to do with the clown using it. I couldn't believe how long it took him to make a decision on the simplest of things, shambolic referee and he should be long away from refereeing any kind of match again.
        

There is still a pretty clear issue with the consistency of reviews regarding similar fouls - we've seen things like grappling/holding in the box given as penalties a few times with the assistance of VAR (which is a good thing as defenders have been getting away with it for way too long) but other times where it's been blatant on replay but hasn't been referred to the referee for one reason or another.

AUF WEIDIESIEN!!!

A stunning result, as the defending champs from Germany are OUT!

Truly shocking. German football has just hit an all-time low. No pun intended.

South Korea 2-0 Germany

Sweden 3-0 Mexico

The Swedes win the group, with Mexico 2nd.

Argentina played 18 games in qualifying - 10 with Messi, 8 without.

In those 10 with Messi, they got 2.1 points per game. Without Messi, they got 0.875 points per game. Even accounting for the fact that Messi played in a higher percentage of home games (6/10) than those he didn't (3/8), I'd say this shows two things - Messi performs for Argentina and Argentina have not looked good without him.

This does not mean that Messi himself is blameless for the first two matches, he was very poor in both and looked seriously lacking in desire and fitness. But when other teams double and triple team you and then the coach makes bizarre selections, so the rest of the poorly functioning team can't exploit the extra space you give them, it is a problem.

Winning major titles can only tell so much about being the best in such a team sport. If Higuain had not missed glorious chances in each of Argentina's three recent finals, then Messi could be sitting here with a World Cup and two Copa Americas. Higuain missed a tremendous chance again last night but got bailed out by Rojo. Messi had a pretty good chance in the World Cup final himself to be fair, but it must be frustrating to have such a top striker repeatedly choke in the big moments when he is in that team to be the main scorer and Messi the main creative force. For contrast, Ronaldo won his Euros but he got injured in the final and wasn't even on the pitch when Eder of all people managed to score the winner for them, after France had missed great chances. In KO football, luck will always be a factor (there are few winners of any KO tournament - club or country - where you can't point to a moment where a team got fortunate, even the very best ones). To illuminate even further on the Eder goal, Koscielny was erroneously booked for a handball that actually hit Eder's hand. One minute later, Koscielny (now afraid of a second yellow and getting sent off) let Eder turn him too easily and that was the goal.

The whole Messi/Ronaldo thing has become very interesting. About 5 years ago, it wasn't really seen as too much of a debate by many, but it is almost as if the last 4 years have been written by Ronaldo himself in some ways. Messi lost the World Cup final and he won the Euros, while his Real team have won 4 out of 5 Champions Leagues (unprecedented in the modern era). Messi has continued to be relentless week-to-week in La Liga, dragging a Barcelona that keeps making abysmal decisions to many league and domestic cup titles. But he has started to struggle a bit more in the big European knockout fixtures though, putting in some limp displays, whereas Ronaldo has flourished. The difference in their goals scored in CL KO games since 2012 is crazily in Ronaldo's favour - no one would've predicted the difference after the 2011 Champions League final at Wembley.

Part of this has been the way that Real and Barcelona have handled their squads - with Barcelona making more poor decisions, often letting players that would've suited them perfectly make their way to Real, such as Modric and Isco. Real have always been fixated on European success, so it makes sense that they can sometimes underwhelm domestically but perform on the big stages. It also cannot be overstated that this Real team have been the most fortunate that I think I have ever seen. Like I said before, during a cup run at the highest level there will nearly always be at least a moment or two of luck. I guess statistically, given enough time, some team was bound to get plenty of fortune a few years in a row and this Real team is that one. Penalties not being given against them, non-penalties being given to them, offside goals being given, deflections, the opposite team missing endless amounts of sitters, the opposite team making horrendous errors under no pressure they'd make against no one else. When all that is going the way of a tremendously talented side, which is also designed to get the best out of one of the greatest footballers ever, it is no wonder they have achieved what they did. I say this as someone who has been a follower of Real ever since Raúl became my favourite player in the late 90s.

I haven't talked any football here since we moved over I don't think, so that went a bit long and off on a tangent.

--------------------------------

It has been an exciting World Cup, in that no team has actually looked especially great. Quality of overall play has been poor but has led to fantastic drama. The number of penalties (even accounting for VAR - which referees still manage to botch) and own goals has been absurd - tonight we even got a missed pen becoming an own goal to put an exclamation point on it.

If Japan or Senegal top their group, then the bottom quarter of the draw would be looking especially weak. England or Belgium may even be happier to lose tomorrow. Either could end up with Japan/Senegal followed by Sweden/Switzerland to get to the SF and from there, with 2 matches to go, anything can happen. Of course Colombia could still win that group and would not fear either England or Belgium.

That top quarter is the battle of the underwhelming sides - Uruguay/Portugal takes on France/Argentina. I could see any combination happening and any of the four making the SF. Everyone knows Deschamps can't get France playing well (and even then they should've won the last Euros), Portugal always seem to be a chore to watch but somehow scrape the result, Argentina look about as disjointed as is possible and for Uruguay, Suarez is on the wane. It really does feel like we are at a bit of low spot for international football at the moment. Nobody looks good.

In regards to Argentina, Sampaoli is insisting on playing Mascherano in midfield when his legs have gone. He has played CB at club level for the last 8 years basically and would help calm Otamendi (who can seem great in the right system or atrocious in the wrong one or with the wrong personnel around him - sort of like David Luiz) back there. Could move Rojo to LB for solidity. I get that they don't really have another DM (except Biglia who isn't good enough), but surely Banega and Lo Celso could be worth a go together in central midfield, dictating play. I can't see it working out worse than what we've seen so far. Or play a three with those two and Masch to protect him a bit. And that boy Pavon should start out wide - raw but can make things happen. Dybala needs to see some game time as well, even though he typically plays in the same areas as Messi.

Croatia are looking quite good again, but they completely froze against Portugal in the Euros when things were starting to look good for them. They do have Dejan Lovren as well, who can fuck up at any moment. Could be a very interesting QF with Spain if both get through.

You always kinda felt like Germany would scrape through because they're Germany - but they were truly rubbish today and deserved to lose. No sense of urgency, no creativity, no plan B. I've always been (irrationally) annoyed by Neuer so having him make a complete fool of himself was the icing on the cake.

This defending champions curse is getting genuinely amazing now - four of the previous five holders have been knocked out in the group stage.

More dramatics today. Japan is in, and Senegal is out, as a result of the second tiebreaker, the Fair Play rule. Japan had two fewer yellow cards than Senegal, and that got them in.

Jun 28, 2018 15:56:56 GMT CM Punk'd said:

More dramatics today. Japan is in, and Senegal is out, as a result of the second tiebreaker, the Fair Play rule. Japan had two fewer yellow cards than Senegal, and that got them in.

I hope England defeats Belgium. I really don’t want England vs Columbia in the first round. I like both teams and would rather England get a “cruiser” in Japan. The further England, Argentina, Portugal, Brazil and Switzerland go, the more I can enjoy this.

Well, it will be England against Columbia. Definitely a toss-up game.

I must say I don't care much for the fair play rule.   Fifa refs already have too much influence over the game IMO and this just makes it worse.

Jun 28, 2018 21:16:25 GMT thereallt said:

I must say I don't care much for the fair play rule.   Fifa refs already have too much influence over the game IMO and this just makes it worse.

But you should reward those that play more fairly than others.

This is the first time it's ever been used so suggesting any sort of bias/shenanigans is quite ridiculous. It makes much more sense to make the decision based on something that happened on the pitch rather than any alternative like a coin flip which is completely arbitrary.

Obviously it's a difficult way for Senegal to be eliminated, but they shouldn't have lost to Colombia if they wanted to go through.

Anyone else thinking Uruguay could be the winners of the tournament? The way they've qualified from their group, won each game without letting a goal in and just going about it nice and quietly without many people talking about them is very good.

Definitely a dangerous side

Being the only team to not concede is a nice little stat, but it obviously comes with the caveat of having by far the weakest group. Godin is a brilliant defender though. They're also right up there with Brazil so far amongst the sides adhering to the "don't peak too early" mantra.

Uruguay vs Portugal looks like the most intriguing of the R16 on paper to me.