Watching for motorcycles.
Ok, so let me get this right.
You chose to enter vehicular traffic with no numbers, air bags, seatbelts or cage.
Zero crash test rating from any angle.
And you expect me to be on the lookout for you?
You are the one who put yourself in harms way and took no precautions. It's not on me.

Jun 24, 2024 16:53:43 GMT theend said:

Watching for motorcycles.
Ok, so let me get this right.
You chose to enter vehicular traffic with no numbers, air bags, seatbelts or cage.
Zero crash test rating from any angle.
And you expect me to be on the lookout for you?
You are the one who put yourself in harms way and took no precautions. It's not on me.

If anything, for your own safety. A few hundred kgs at warp speed will put a dent in almost anything, including your windscreen and really fuck up your day.

What I don't get is the laws for cars v motorcycles, here anyway. I'm not sure what it's like in The States. A car in Australia is usually required to be restricted to, I think it was 96db... I could be wrong. Yet, some motorcycles straight out of the crate sound like someone strapped a tin can on for the exhaust and was convinced people two towns over needed to hear it.

Dude I'm gonna say it, regular ass bikes don't belong where cars are.

Jun 24, 2024 20:04:16 GMT @ness said:

Dude I'm gonna say it, regular ass bikes don't belong where cars are.

Agreed. Move bitch, get out the way.

Must be a big motorcycle union lobbying to skirt all the safety laws. Like how liquor in the US basically has no label. Nutritional value, nah, ingredients, nah, warning? Nah

Jun 24, 2024 20:58:45 GMT theend said:

Must be a big motorcycle union lobbying to skirt all the safety laws. Like how liquor in the US basically has no label. Nutritional value, nah, ingredients, nah, warning? Nah

Our countries are so different to the point, my government is debating putting " cigarette style " warning labels on.... social media.

Jun 24, 2024 20:34:43 GMT NATH45 said:

Jun 24, 2024 20:04:16 GMT @ness said:

Dude I'm gonna say it, regular ass bikes don't belong where cars are.

Agreed. Move bitch, get out the way.

Our city government used 100million in tax dollars to increase bike lanes in a city where everything is spread out, our Public transportation sucks (and is dangerous ) and there's winter 6-9 months of the year.

Cycling infrastructure is fantastic, governments everywhere should be pumping as much money as they can into it. There's been gradual progress here lately but things could still be so much better to protect cyclists and make it a more feasible and attractive mode of transport. Cycling is good for everyone, it's better for the environment, it's better for congestion, reduces the need for roadworks, and makes people healthier.

Unfortunately, we have a very aggressive driving culture in Australia, and the media are constantly fuelling the drivers vs cyclists war. A prevalent example is the use of passive voice when reporting crashes. "A cyclist was hit by a car." No, the car didn't run the cyclist over, the driver did.

There's also often a blatant disregard for one's own safety as well from many cyclists.

You should ride as close to the road's edge as possible, preferably in a single line. But often you'll see groups of cyclists breaking no more than 15-20km/h side by side or in packs taking up entire lanes or the majority of it, with traffic travelling at 80 or 100kms trying to avoid hitting them. On top of ignoring lights, signs and weaving in and out of traffic. In low key, quiet residential streets, that's fine to live a little dangerously. But on major roads and highways, that's incredibly dangerous, particularly when people have difficulty see motorcycles, let alone seeing a push bike.

It's a two way street.

The problem with Oz is, our cities were designed for cars, hence the urban spawl and visa versa. Europe is magical for bikes, but you can't expect people here to ride as a primary means of transport when there's often a decent distance between work and home and several major roads. Even the " bush " or regional cities and towns are built more like small cities with the majority of residential zones situated away from the CBD.

That, and those +35 degree days aren't exactly pleasant on a bike either.

Jun 25, 2024 1:45:29 GMT NATH45 said:

The problem with Oz is, our cities were designed for cars, hence the urban spawl and visa versa. Europe is magical for bikes, but you can't expect people here to ride as a primary means of transport when there's often a decent distance between work and home and several major roads. Even the " bush " or regional cities and towns are built more like small cities with the majority of residential zones situated away from the CBD.

Europe didn't just "magically" become cyclist friendly though, it took proactive government investment. Following WW2 the Netherlands actually removed cycle paths to make space for more cars, and it wasn't until they had a spike in children being killed on roads that they shifted to prioritising cycling from the 70s onwards. 

Yes Australian cities are more outwardly sprawling than in Europe (which is another issue we should address but that's another argument entirely!) but Melbourne for example has other attributes that make it ideal for commute cycling, like generally being very flat. We could very easily make cycling to train stations in the suburbs more appealing/realistic than it is currently. 

Jun 25, 2024 6:53:41 GMT @admin said:

Cycling infrastructure is fantastic, governments everywhere should be pumping as much money as they can into it. There's been gradual progress here lately but things could still be so much better to protect cyclists and make it a more feasible and attractive mode of transport. Cycling is good for everyone, it's better for the environment, it's better for congestion, reduces the need for roadworks, and makes people healthier.

Unfortunately, we have a very aggressive driving culture in Australia, and the media are constantly fuelling the drivers vs cyclists war. A prevalent example is the use of passive voice when reporting crashes. "A cyclist was hit by a car." No, the car didn't run the cyclist over, the driver did.

I agree, Britain also has a toxic anti-cyclist culture. My parents are among the cyclist-haters, they way they talk about them is quite dehumanising. I understand it's a symptom of road rage, same as a car in front of them driving 2mph below the speed limit ("they shouldn't be on the road!!!!"), but it doesn't feel encouraging as someone who's considered cycling in the past. Driver's attitudes towards cyclists makes it quite a terrifying thought.

We have invested a lot into cycle lanes in major cities, which is good, but I do have to side with the drivers here that they don't seem to be used all that much. Not that it's a bad idea. Just a lot more work is needed, cultural more than anything, but it's hard to imagine how these barriers are overcome.

I hate all the cyclist infrastructure because cyclists don't pay for it.
Let cyclists pay registration fees and then they can have a right to be on the road.

So many people who support bike lanes etc. they're not people whose jobs involve days of driving from place to place.

I have no great problem with cyclists existing, I just don't support sacrificing more of our congested roads to bike lanes that aren't used at all.

I also feel sorry for businesses who now have nowhere for people to park outside their shop or cafe because it's now a 24/7 bike lane where before it was only a clearway in peak times when the shop wasn't open.

Jun 25, 2024 5:29:04 GMT @admin said:

Jun 25, 2024 1:45:29 GMT NATH45 said:

The problem with Oz is, our cities were designed for cars, hence the urban spawl and visa versa. Europe is magical for bikes, but you can't expect people here to ride as a primary means of transport when there's often a decent distance between work and home and several major roads. Even the " bush " or regional cities and towns are built more like small cities with the majority of residential zones situated away from the CBD.

Europe didn't just "magically" become cyclist friendly though, it took proactive government investment. Following WW2 the Netherlands actually removed cycle paths to make space for more cars, and it wasn't until they had a spike in children being killed on roads that they shifted to prioritising cycling from the 70s onwards. 

Yes Australian cities are more outwardly sprawling than in Europe (which is another issue we should address but that's another argument entirely!) but Melbourne for example has other attributes that make it ideal for commute cycling, like generally being very flat. We could very easily make cycling to train stations in the suburbs more appealing/realistic than it is currently. 

I never disputed that, but you're right. Also factor in the urban planning across the centuries didn't envision anything beyond the range of the horse and cart, and hence why it's much easier to adapt the more modern cities that sits upon them today into being more bike friendly with pre-existing shorter, narrower streets with a more centralised populations, making walking and riding much easier.

I don't know if a lot of European cities are a great comparison. Amsterdam has a metro population of 1.18m vs Melbourne's 5.3m and The Netherlands itself is a fraction of the size of Victoria. Imagine the population of Adelaide living in an area smaller than Bendigo - the perfect environment for bikes and being on foot given shopping, education and services would be all relatively close. Which isn't always the case here.

Jun 25, 2024 7:46:57 GMT iNCY said:

I hate all the cyclist infrastructure because cyclists don't pay for it.
Let cyclists pay registration fees and then they can have a right to be on the road.

So many people who support bike lanes etc. they're not people whose jobs involve days of driving from place to place.

I have no great problem with cyclists existing, I just don't support sacrificing more of our congested roads to bike lanes that aren't used at all.

I also feel sorry for businesses who now have nowhere for people to park outside their shop or cafe because it's now a 24/7 bike lane where before it was only a clearway in peak times when the shop wasn't open.

This is the sort of myopic gatekeeping that stops progress. Even in isolation without factoring in all of the other benefits, cycling infrastructure is far cheaper than roads and requires less maintenance. For example, the proposed B1 veloway connecting Flinders Street and Southern Cross was priced at 25 million, whereas an average suburban road project where they duplicate lanes and add traffic lights is in the region of 200-300 million.

More people cycling means less congestion on the roads for those who have to drive, rather than just those people who do because they have no other alternative.

There's a plethora of evidence that suggests that removing parking in favour of cycling and pedestrians is beneficial to retail, not harmful. It's just talkback radio that leads to an assuption that the most visible, space-hogging access mode is the most important, but this simply is not true. 

Jun 24, 2024 16:53:43 GMT theend said:

Watching for motorcycles.
Ok, so let me get this right.
You chose to enter vehicular traffic with no numbers, air bags, seatbelts or cage.
Zero crash test rating from any angle.
And you expect me to be on the lookout for you?
You are the one who put yourself in harms way and took no precautions. It's not on me.

Motorcycle rider (commuter) here.

Where do you live / are you talking about lane splitting, which has been legal in CA forever and has only recently expanded to, I think, Colorado and Arizona?

'Cuz yeah, you're right, I do it but I don't expect anyone to be responsible for my well-being but me; I assume I'm invisible and act accordingly.

which is why I duck between lanes at stop lights; no offense but if you get rear-ended at speed by an inattentive driver you're having a bad day whereas if I get rear-ended at speed by an inattentive driver I'm having a *really* bad day so better you with your cage than me with nary but a helmet and abrasion protection

Jun 25, 2024 7:46:57 GMT iNCY said:

I hate all the cyclist infrastructure because cyclists don't pay for it.
Let cyclists pay registration fees and then they can have a right to be on the road.

So many people who support bike lanes etc. they're not people whose jobs involve days of driving from place to place.

I have no great problem with cyclists existing, I just don't support sacrificing more of our congested roads to bike lanes that aren't used at all.

I also feel sorry for businesses who now have nowhere for people to park outside their shop or cafe because it's now a 24/7 bike lane where before it was only a clearway in peak times when the shop wasn't open.

Cyclist checking in (hey, I can be multiple things!) and this comes up fairly often where I live, bike lane is proposed, merchants say it'll be the death of them, bike lane gets put in anyway, business doesn't skip a beat.

The street becomes a bit more like malls of the olden days, where it's infinitely more walkable, a pleasant place to be rather than a high-traffic street, and instead of driving to a restaurant then leaving immediately after you drive, park a couple of blocks away, have dinner and while walking back to your car now you've noticed that little gelato place for dessert and your kid is captivated by that magic shop next door.

Remove the licencing on mopeds under 125cc and stop the fear mongering around electric bikes and scooters and Victoria particularly would be a better place.

Jun 25, 2024 23:56:42 GMT @admin said:

Jun 25, 2024 7:46:57 GMT iNCY said:

I hate all the cyclist infrastructure because cyclists don't pay for it.
Let cyclists pay registration fees and then they can have a right to be on the road.

So many people who support bike lanes etc. they're not people whose jobs involve days of driving from place to place.

I have no great problem with cyclists existing, I just don't support sacrificing more of our congested roads to bike lanes that aren't used at all.

I also feel sorry for businesses who now have nowhere for people to park outside their shop or cafe because it's now a 24/7 bike lane where before it was only a clearway in peak times when the shop wasn't open.

This is the sort of myopic gatekeeping that stops progress. Even in isolation without factoring in all of the other benefits, cycling infrastructure is far cheaper than roads and requires less maintenance. For example, the proposed B1 veloway connecting Flinders Street and Southern Cross was priced at 25 million, whereas an average suburban road project where they duplicate lanes and add traffic lights is in the region of 200-300 million.

More people cycling means less congestion on the roads for those who have to drive, rather than just those people who do because they have no other alternative.

There's a plethora of evidence that suggests that removing parking in favour of cycling and pedestrians is beneficial to retail, not harmful. It's just talkback radio that leads to an assuption that the most visible, space-hogging access mode is the most important, but this simply is not true. 

Hi mate, I am not anti-cyclist but please don't use the incompetence of the Victorian government with their insane cost overruns and obscene sweetheart deals with the unions to suggest that in comparison 25 million dollars to cripple a road is a benefit.
This state is broke and bereft of any sort of talent or insight at any level of government.

I would support all manner of green spaces and bike lane rollouts, but did you read your quoted example?
They turned diagonal parking into parallel parking plus a bike lane, I don't think that has been the case with a single roll-out in Melbourne.
Our cities weren't designed intelligently, but what we have done historically is have retail parking during the day that converts to a clear way for vehicle traffic in the peak times.
This of course isn't spectacular, but it is a mixed use scenario.
Now we take that infrastructure that was used at almost 100% of it's capacity most of the time and turn it into an asset devoted to one purpose that is utilised... What do we think? Maybe 15% of the time. (based on time, weather etc.)
It is not a ideological POV I am advocating but a best use scenario.

What we should have in Melbourne is a mixed use plan, sometimes parking, sometimes bike lanes, sometimes outdoor dining, if we can be flexible with the spaces we can get the best return.

Myopic thinking is very much a case of holding one objective above others and what bothers me about Melbourne City Council is their focus is increasingly ideological rather than practical.
We have councils declaring climate emergencies and stating their views on Palestinian statehood, they are welcome to their views, I will always support free speech, but it is not within their jurisdiction or job description.

For the record I am always about intelligent spending on infrastructure, I think every freeway we build should have space in the centre for light rail to be added. 
We are terribly governed at all levels and have been for a long time.

Jun 26, 2024 0:12:15 GMT Michinokudriver said:

Jun 24, 2024 16:53:43 GMT theend said:

Watching for motorcycles.
Ok, so let me get this right.
You chose to enter vehicular traffic with no numbers, air bags, seatbelts or cage.
Zero crash test rating from any angle.
And you expect me to be on the lookout for you?
You are the one who put yourself in harms way and took no precautions. It's not on me.

Motorcycle rider (commuter) here.

Where do you live / are you talking about lane splitting, which has been legal in CA forever and has only recently expanded to, I think, Colorado and Arizona?

'Cuz yeah, you're right, I do it but I don't expect anyone to be responsible for my well-being but me; I assume I'm invisible and act accordingly.

which is why I duck between lanes at stop lights; no offense but if you get rear-ended at speed by an inattentive driver you're having a bad day whereas if I get rear-ended at speed by an inattentive driver I'm having a *really* bad day so better you with your cage than me with nary but a helmet and abrasion protection

I am in WI and totally unaware of lane splitting

How sunglass Hut stays in business. Seems seasonal. Seems to only hit a small section of the market. Will have a mall location and a kiosk in Macy's in the same mall. I feel like most people don't want to pay over $20 for sunglasses. I have like a $80 pair that I have had for a decade.

Jun 29, 2024 13:21:56 GMT theend said:

How sunglass Hut stays in business. Seems seasonal. Seems to only hit a small section of the market. Will have a mall location and a kiosk in Macy's in the same mall. I feel like most people don't want to pay over $20 for sunglasses. I have like a $80 pair that I have had for a decade.

Money laundering. It's a front like a mattress store or Long John Silvers.

Jun 29, 2024 13:21:56 GMT theend said:

How sunglass Hut stays in business. Seems seasonal. Seems to only hit a small section of the market. Will have a mall location and a kiosk in Macy's in the same mall. I feel like most people don't want to pay over $20 for sunglasses. I have like a $80 pair that I have had for a decade.

Sunglasses Hat is owned by Luxottica (along with basically everything else in eyewear).

I’m guessing they have some, ahem, creative accounting that is adding net value to their portfolio.

Jun 24, 2024 16:53:43 GMT theend said:

Watching for motorcycles.
Ok, so let me get this right.
You chose to enter vehicular traffic with no numbers, air bags, seatbelts or cage.
Zero crash test rating from any angle.
And you expect me to be on the lookout for you?
You are the one who put yourself in harms way and took no precautions. It's not on me.

Reads like you've never had to deal with a loved one who was involved in a motorcycle accident. I'm very happy for you if that's the case.

Just don't be a dick and provide space if possible. Their safety (and yours) far outweighs the inconvenience.

Jul 3, 2024 8:44:08 GMT rad said:

Jun 24, 2024 16:53:43 GMT theend said:

Watching for motorcycles.
Ok, so let me get this right.
You chose to enter vehicular traffic with no numbers, air bags, seatbelts or cage.
Zero crash test rating from any angle.
And you expect me to be on the lookout for you?
You are the one who put yourself in harms way and took no precautions. It's not on me.

Reads like you've never had to deal with a loved one who was involved in a motorcycle accident. I'm very happy for you if that's the case.

Just don't be a dick and provide space if possible. Their safety (and yours) far outweighs the inconvenience.

Not enough for them to take it upon themselves to take a safer option

I don't get people who talk on speaker phone in public.

Jul 16, 2024 16:34:53 GMT Emperor said:

I don't get people who talk on speaker phone in public.

I find this is the default setting for my parents. Always on speaker.

Jul 6, 2024 22:18:00 GMT theend said:

Jul 3, 2024 8:44:08 GMT rad said:

Reads like you've never had to deal with a loved one who was involved in a motorcycle accident. I'm very happy for you if that's the case.

Just don't be a dick and provide space if possible. Their safety (and yours) far outweighs the inconvenience.

Not enough for them to take it upon themselves to take a safer option

So I deserved to go 10+ years without being able to conversate with my best friend because of his and someone else's negligence (who just like you, refused to provide space), simply because of the mode of transportation?

You're driving a goddamn tank at incredible speeds, it's not the time to wax poetic over who or what belongs on a fucking highway. You're gonna cause an accident and kill someone because you were too inconvenienced by their mere presence. Cool for you, hope that works out and no one has to pay for it (including you).

Jul 16, 2024 16:38:41 GMT @ness said:

Jul 16, 2024 16:34:53 GMT Emperor said:

I don't get people who talk on speaker phone in public.

I find this is the default setting for my parents. Always on speaker.

Just seems there is a complete lack of common courtesy everywhere you go.

Welp, I am definitely not driving a tank at incredible speeds or deliberately causing accidents. You definitely don't know the vehicle I'm driving. But, if you are fearing tanks at incredible speeds I would definitely not recommend open air with 400 lbs of steel between your knees. Want to feel safe? Get on the road in something safe.

No, I obviously don't think you deserve a bad experience. That's insane.

Jul 3, 2024 8:44:08 GMT rad said:

Jun 24, 2024 16:53:43 GMT theend said:

Watching for motorcycles.
Ok, so let me get this right.
You chose to enter vehicular traffic with no numbers, air bags, seatbelts or cage.
Zero crash test rating from any angle.
And you expect me to be on the lookout for you?
You are the one who put yourself in harms way and took no precautions. It's not on me.

Reads like you've never had to deal with a loved one who was involved in a motorcycle accident. I'm very happy for you if that's the case.

Just don't be a dick and provide space if possible. Their safety (and yours) far outweighs the inconvenience.

Everyone should be careful and courteous on the road but motorcycle riders shit me.
If you want to be treated like a car, then behave like one. Yes, we should eat h out for you, but if you are weaving in and out of traffic, it's hard to believe it's all the fault of the driver when you get hit.

I have this argument all the time with my brother in law, it's not only a motorbike thing, some people drive their cars like idiots, meaning too fast and to aggressive, they have lots of accidents that are "never their fault" technically they are correct, but part of driving or riding is leaving space and time for the stupidity of others.