I must say, I did not expect the responses that came after I told that tale yesterday. Truth be told, the fact that almost everyone in that group acted like they did significantly impacted my world view and contributed to my outlook that most people are usually selfish / apathetic. I know people only said a few words expressing sympathy yesterday and it was not difficult for them to do so, but even that has gone some way to repairing my negative outlook. I certainly wasn't looking for that nor did I even want it, but it was so unexpected that it has had that effect nevertheless. So thanks for the words.

Sept 23, 2019 17:16:32 GMT Emperor said:

My above reaction to the TGO saga being revived was impulsive and short-sighted.

Upon reflection, this is an opportunity for Lionheart to get personal closure for what happened all those years ago, which is a great thing. TGO was such a long-standing and well-respected member of our community that any bad words against him would naturally be met with skepticism. Fortunately, he got found out in the end, and justice was done, albeit without irreparable damage to our community.

I'm sorry you went through that Lionheart , and while I was somewhat aware of your perspective at the time, I wasn't privy to those group chats (nor did I want to be), so I didn't know the extreme extent of the situation.

This post is quite interesting since I haven't thought about it in some time. I do recall now that, at the time, I was somewhat confused by your lack of reaction to the situation but at the same time I understood that you were just thoroughly weirded out by the whole thing and wanted nothing to do with it which is fair enough. In any case, you helped simply by not being an asshole. Somewhat of a counterbalance to keep me from complete and utter despair, even if you did not directly comment on the situation.

Sept 23, 2019 20:18:12 GMT KING KID said:

But that’s crazy about TGO/Lionheart. I never liked that guy. He posted pictures of himself way too much. Especially at a time where it wasn’t the thing to do. I hate what he did but don’t know why people fell for his shit.

Also, Lionheart - who were these people who didn’t believe you and told you to go fuck yourself? I’m curious. Was it Champ?

Actually, not at all. Champ is the only one who immediately believed me and took a stance against TGO from the get-go, which rather surprised me. He seemed really upset about the situation and kept saying things like "I can't believe I let that POS hug me in a bathroom". Like most, he was a bit focused on the fact that one of his best friends was a jerk and mostly ignored the fact that people were cursing me out, but that is understandable considering it was shaking the foundation of their entire world as most of this group really loved TGO.

I believe Champ later forgave him and started supporting him again in a complete reversal, but that was much later after the chats were no more or I was no longer a part of them. But that he had reversed his stance so late in the game probably made it hit him even harder when the charges were found.

Sept 23, 2019 20:37:17 GMT UT said:

Yeah I’m actually curious to that as well.

Quite the shit response to a potentially serious situation.

This is somewhat of a delicate situation which is why I did not list names, but I suppose I can just be delicate about it. One of the two initial people I told was Nolan. He is no longer alive as he committed suicide, potentially as a direct result of these events, which makes me feel terrible whenever I think about it. Whatever he did while alive, I have forgiven him completely. I will not mention him further.

The other person was Feds. I've always enjoyed chatting with Feds and I am grateful to him for introducing me to the band Fun who have since been one of my favorite bands. That being said, he never seemed to like me much probably because one of the first things I ever said to him was that I was confused about why anyone likes sports...simply because I did not understand and was genuinely curious, but I can certainly see why that would rub people the wrong way. I am somewhat of a master at doing that. It didn't help that he messaged me while having a panic attack and then told me to stop talking to him when I tried to calm him down because it was annoying him more but I kept talking to him for hours because I kept trying to help. He was pretty permanently pissed at me after that and I should have just let him be.

Anyway, it is no surprise that he was none too pleased at me speaking bad of TGO given all that and immediately reacted with disbelief and anger. He later came around and was the biggest voice against TGO but he is not the type to apologize, certainly not to someone he dislikes.

The other members of the group included TGO's girlfriend Gizzle, who hated me the most after and constantly cursed at me, which was a bummer because it was her I was trying to help by telling people about it in the first place. Then there was Gizzle's best friend Bethany who wanted to support Gizzle and thus treated me the same in turn at first. When Feds came around, she followed suit after and started trying to convince Gizzle that TGO was bad news, but there was like a week before that happened.

There were a half dozen or so others periodically in the chats like Falcone, but I hardly remember any of their contributions to the chats. Benson was there sometimes and usually on my side in random matters, but on this he basically told me it made sense people were upset and I shouldn't be surprised. BigRed was apparently vaguely told what happened and messaged me privately asking to explain it all. I did so and he was very patient and listened to the story, but at the end he basically told me very politely that he didn't believe me and that he wasn't going to talk to me anymore.

Anyway, this was all a very long time ago and I have long since put it behind me. In hindsight, it is sort of expected that a group I was the most recent member of would rally against me initially and think I had faked the logs and such at first. They were all affected very emotionally and had little room left to be concerned about me. I'm just glad the truth was realized eventually.

I know hindsight and all that, but the more info about this thing that gets revealed the more weird and bizarre it gets. I've never been in a restroom where a guy even wanted to piss next to another dude and we have forum members hugging each other? Shame we'll never be able to truly go full on Voldemort and never mention it again.

Appreciate your response Lionheart. Interesting to say the least and happy it all eventually came out and actions were taken.

The same group that went off at amanda & the PW mods for not helping with non-PW matters Lionheart?

Not surprised with how they acted.

I don’t know who any of those people are and feel like I’m better off for it.

So, I was told by Champ the story of him turning up to the Mania gathering without his girlfriend and with a young, very obvious toyboy. I found the whole thing kind of creepy. I mostly stayed out of the drama until the information was released. End of the day, we can all agree I'm not the kind of guy you take into an argument like that. I'm less likely to debate the topic and more likely to call everyone a raging thundercunt and shitpost.

It did hurt because TGO was always nice to me and actually did a lot to make me feel like I belonged on PW when most just wrote me off as a troll. I honestly just expected the worst to be that he was a serial cheater who was tearing friendships apart. When all the other stories came out from posters who he harassed, that just shattered things.

Hell, it even happened again in my life recently. I guy I actually knew in person was lying about his age to sleep with underage girls in Southport. The mental thing was, he was attending my sponsored Nintendo events in Liverpool where kids where present. Even worse, he'd lied about his age to his friends. We thought he was about 25 and it turned out he was older than us.

End of the day, it's always going to suck when someone we at one point considered a friend winds up being a piece of shit. All we can do is hold onto the friends that stand by you. And I'm glad to say I have some good friends from here.

Except Blindy. Fuck that guy.

That's Sam Darnold/Blindy to you Falcone

In all seriousness, part of me wishes I was more involved in the chats but I was legit burnt out on the Sports Empire MSN chats to not really be invested in knowing the other groups from PW. I talked to CIA, Champ and I think 1-2(I want to say Benson?) others in private convos but never really got involved in the other stuff, I would see i am invited and not partake or just leave altogether. Had good convos with both guys so I do miss them but I spent like 5-6 of my teenage/early college years on MSN, was just burnt out and stuck with PW permanently before getting burnt out and leaving for a year. I'd chat Tenn. Titans or football with CIA easily for hours though, and with Champ mainly PW stuff or wrestling stuff with a hint of Yankee talk. 

I do think I invited Lionheart for shits and giggles in our SE chats(I was 16-17 years old?) but I would invite whoever and whenever to our chats. Travis Bird, ORaider27, Shark Boy, y2Jman. Whoever just for the lawls. Immature teenager for the win ya know? Don't know if Lionheart was recieved well(It might have been someone else, there were a ridiculous amount of Jericho avatars that I don't recall who the heck was who) and if so, I do apologize to Lionheart but those chats were very cruel and for someone not use to those chats, they are very brutal. Trolling, downright crazy attacking. I usually took it on the chin in the chats but I grew thick skin on the internet from them. pduh was a man for tolerating the spelling mistake jokes. 

Never had TGO or a few others as friends in MSN so I could never chat with them. One of those things that I just didn't care to do or want. Think we talked about Alabama football once or so on PW but never interacted with TGO on the boards otherwise. Remembering his PW Mania singing competition though was sorta cringey with him signing Adele(I think?). 

Sept 24, 2019 18:08:30 GMT Blindy said:

That's Sam Darnold/Blindy to you Falcone

In all seriousness, part of me wishes I was more involved in the chats but I was legit burnt out on the Sports Empire MSN chats to not really be invested in knowing the other groups from PW. I talked to CIA, Champ and I think 1-2(I want to say Benson?) others in private convos but never really got involved in the other stuff, I would see i am invited and not partake or just leave altogether. Had good convos with both guys so I do miss them but I spent like 5-6 of my teenage/early college years on MSN, was just burnt out and stuck with PW permanently before getting burnt out and leaving for a year. I'd chat Tenn. Titans or football with CIA easily for hours though, and with Champ mainly PW stuff or wrestling stuff with a hint of Yankee talk. 

I do think I invited Lionheart for shits and giggles in our SE chats(I was 16-17 years old?) but I would invite whoever and whenever to our chats. Travis Bird, ORaider27, Shark Boy, y2Jman. Whoever just for the lawls. Immature teenager for the win ya know? Don't know if Lionheart was recieved well(It might have been someone else, there were a ridiculous amount of Jericho avatars that I don't recall who the heck was who) and if so, I do apologize to Lionheart but those chats were very cruel and for someone not use to those chats, they are very brutal. Trolling, downright crazy attacking. I usually took it on the chin in the chats but I grew thick skin on the internet from them. pduh was a man for tolerating the spelling mistake jokes. 

Never had TGO or a few others as friends in MSN so I could never chat with them. One of those things that I just didn't care to do or want. Think we talked about Alabama football once or so on PW but never interacted with TGO on the boards otherwise. Remembering his PW Mania singing competition though was sorta cringey with him signing Adele(I think?). 

Time for you to confess…

You are Travis Bird 😒😂

Sept 24, 2019 18:28:11 GMT pduh said:

Sept 24, 2019 18:08:30 GMT Blindy said:

That's Sam Darnold/Blindy to you Falcone

In all seriousness, part of me wishes I was more involved in the chats but I was legit burnt out on the Sports Empire MSN chats to not really be invested in knowing the other groups from PW. I talked to CIA, Champ and I think 1-2(I want to say Benson?) others in private convos but never really got involved in the other stuff, I would see i am invited and not partake or just leave altogether. Had good convos with both guys so I do miss them but I spent like 5-6 of my teenage/early college years on MSN, was just burnt out and stuck with PW permanently before getting burnt out and leaving for a year. I'd chat Tenn. Titans or football with CIA easily for hours though, and with Champ mainly PW stuff or wrestling stuff with a hint of Yankee talk. 

I do think I invited Lionheart for shits and giggles in our SE chats(I was 16-17 years old?) but I would invite whoever and whenever to our chats. Travis Bird, ORaider27, Shark Boy, y2Jman. Whoever just for the lawls. Immature teenager for the win ya know? Don't know if Lionheart was recieved well(It might have been someone else, there were a ridiculous amount of Jericho avatars that I don't recall who the heck was who) and if so, I do apologize to Lionheart but those chats were very cruel and for someone not use to those chats, they are very brutal. Trolling, downright crazy attacking. I usually took it on the chin in the chats but I grew thick skin on the internet from them. pduh was a man for tolerating the spelling mistake jokes. 

Never had TGO or a few others as friends in MSN so I could never chat with them. One of those things that I just didn't care to do or want. Think we talked about Alabama football once or so on PW but never interacted with TGO on the boards otherwise. Remembering his PW Mania singing competition though was sorta cringey with him signing Adele(I think?). 

Time for you to confess…

You are Travis Bird 😒😂

For the PW Altermania or whatever we did late in the forum's lifespan I was but for real there was a legit crazy utah jazz fanatic that posted on the site. Saw his myspace(Had him as a friend) and everything. ROFL I wish I can find the videos but there are legit Travis Bird videos on Youtube. The Artie/Travis Bird feud was amazing man. 

I am going to start the "I WASN'T PRETTY ENOUGH FOR TGO" Support group.

Sept 24, 2019 18:30:17 GMT Blindy said:

Sept 24, 2019 18:28:11 GMT pduh said:

Time for you to confess…

You are Travis Bird 😒😂

For the PW Altermania or whatever we did late in the forum's lifespan I was but for real there was a legit crazy utah jazz fanatic that posted on the site. Saw his myspace(Had him as a friend) and everything. ROFL I wish I can find the videos but there are legit Travis Bird videos on Youtube. The Artie/Travis Bird feud was amazing man. 

That Travis Bird/Artie feud was a classic 😂

I consider myself a vet of PW and I have no idea who some are that LH mentioned.

Also despicable that the mods didn’t help when told.

Sept 24, 2019 20:31:29 GMT KING KID said:

I consider myself a vet of PW and I have no idea who some are that LH mentioned.

Also despicable that the mods didn’t help when told.

I knew a few of them through those chats, I also recalling hearing about the tragic news of Nolan(Think it was mentioned on PW in a thread in OT?) but I didn't know him or many from that group too well. I remember the fallout of those guys vs the mods when that all happened. That was hella messy. 

I think I got along with most of the aforementioned people which says a lot given how brash I was. Few I didn't get along with that I won't mention by name.

Now, I am just lax and could care less about this site or the drama Perk of getting older. You either love me or you don't and that's cool, different strokes for different folks. But yeah So This Thread Happened.....

Sept 24, 2019 20:31:29 GMT KING KID said:

I consider myself a vet of PW and I have no idea who some are that LH mentioned.

Also despicable that the mods didn’t help when told.

Same here.

I remember nEwAgEgAnSta (or something like that), Brokenlamp, and Rusty Brooks, and c when he was going by Magcheato and C to the C (I think?)... That's about as far back as my memory goes.

Wasn’t BigRed a mod? I thought Champ was too. They were also weirdly obsessed with each other. So they were the mods when all this went down? I don’t remember.

Can we just blame Foos?

I don’t post often on the old board and if I do I only post one or two forums same here can’t well I guess I’m a pw vet

Yeah man.

What pduh said.

Sept 24, 2019 21:43:46 GMT KING KID said:

Wasn’t BigRed a mod? I thought Champ was too. They were also weirdly obsessed with each other. So they were the mods when all this went down? I don’t remember.

Can we just blame Foos ?

Champ was never a mod. BigRed was, I believe until the fallout from all of this with him flipping out on amanda and effectively leaving the forum - although someone else will probably remember this clearer than I do.

Okay; so just to clear up two things.

1- Amanda knew about all this and ignored it?

2- Amanda was a real female? Wow.

Sept 25, 2019 2:43:00 GMT KING KID said:

Okay; so just to clear up two things.

1- Amanda knew about all this and ignored it?

2- Amanda was a real female? Wow.

I don’t see how something happening outside of PW is the mods/admins concern? It’s a pro wrestling website not law enforcement. I just remember people blowing up at her in the thread after the fact because she told them that MSN drama wasn’t her concern at one point.

All signs point to yes :lol: I sent her a gift for the PW gift exchange (handbag & CM Punk DVD) and it caused dramas with her boyfriend from what I understand, I meant well 😬. She said something about being on radio & her voice being on some well known commercials in a thread once also.

Foos was really kind and sent me a postcard though.

Sept 25, 2019 2:43:00 GMT KING KID said:

Okay; so just to clear up two things.

1- Amanda knew about all this and ignored it?

2- Amanda was a real female? Wow.

The mod room was told about TGO he was demodded and banned immediately.
BigRed wanted to make a big tell all thread about it and the mod room voted overwhelmingly no, because: a) it was an active police inquiry b) what TGO did on MSN had nothing to do with PW and we didn't want the forum we loved dragged into it all...

Then BigRed made the thread anyway.. And was demodded and walked in protest. It was ugly all round. Red was an eFriend of mine but he was so self righteous in his indignation at the time he ignored all the people he modded with.

I've sent many things to many people. Generosity is my jam, man.

No one sent me things 😢

Sept 25, 2019 3:44:03 GMT pduh said:

No one sent me things 😢

I’d be interested in a PW Gift exchange again if there was enough interest, pretty sure it was Mistress idea.

+ there’s enough Australian posters that people won’t have to pay an arm & leg to ship here 😂

Much appreciated Foos.

Sept 24, 2019 3:42:16 GMT KING KID said:

There. I changed the name.

Now everyone can suck MY dick!

Sept 25, 2019 3:24:32 GMT iNCY said:

Sept 25, 2019 2:43:00 GMT KING KID said:

Okay; so just to clear up two things.

1- Amanda knew about all this and ignored it?

2- Amanda was a real female? Wow.

The mod room was told about TGO he was demodded and banned immediately.
BigRed wanted to make a big tell all thread about it and the mod room voted overwhelmingly no, because: a) it was an active police inquiry b) what TGO did on MSN had nothing to do with PW and we didn't want the forum we loved dragged into it all...

Then BigRed made the thread anyway.. And was demodded and walked in protest. It was ugly all round. Red was an eFriend of mine but he was so self righteous in his indignation at the time he ignored all the people he modded with.

Pretty much this. At the time TGO had been arrested, maybe twice(?) and there was a large debate about do we make a thread and let everyone talk through it, do we make a closed-thread announcement so no one wonders what happened to TGO but no discussion, do we quietly ban him and go on as though nothing had happened because now it's a legal matter and an official public announcement might drag PW and its archives and laggy servers into the courtroom?

And, I mean, we're volunteer moderators on an Internet forum about people pretending to fight in their underwear and sometimes using VCR remotes to pause each other mid-combat. Mod discussions are usually about whether that "I got a JBL tattoo on my buttcheek" thread should be left as a joke thread for everyone to shitpost in or deleted as spam. But one of our top posters, dedicated Mod/probably high up in line for Supermod, actually met other posters at Manias TGO was a pedo who was preying on kids in our community? We (collectively) didn't know what the hell to do; we weren't prepared for anything like it. This is not the kind of thing you think can actually happen to your little corner of the Internet til it does.

It's been so long that I don't remember for sure but I don't think we as a mod team had even come to anything approaching a final decision yet, but BigRed made that decision for us. I'm not that surprised; he's a very principled guy who sticks to what he thinks is right and what he thought was right was full disclosure even if he had to blindside us to do it. I'm not mad about it now and I wasn't mad about it then -- IIRC of the mod team he was the closest to TGO and probably felt more personally involved/allowed more ownership of the situation than the rest of us who were not quite as emotionally affected -- but I do seem to remember him not really sticking around for much of the fallout after throwing the pipebomb. (Again, it's been so long I might be misremembering.)

Crazy. I’m sure nobody meant any harm with their actions or inactions so it’s cool. Sucks for the ones who were affected and I’m sure it changed/ruined their lives after that. Shit, PW is a family so when TGO did his closest friends dirty, it must have hurt terribly.

I know when Brad and Kem died, it truly hurt my heart. So I get it having an emotional impact from a tiny message board.

But lesson was learned; I should have been moderator. I accept everyone’s apologies.

Sept 25, 2019 6:51:46 GMT Michinokudriver said:

Sept 24, 2019 3:42:16 GMT KING KID said:

There. I changed the name.

Now everyone can suck MY dick!

Sept 25, 2019 3:24:32 GMT iNCY said:

The mod room was told about TGO he was demodded and banned immediately.
BigRed wanted to make a big tell all thread about it and the mod room voted overwhelmingly no, because: a) it was an active police inquiry b) what TGO did on MSN had nothing to do with PW and we didn't want the forum we loved dragged into it all...

Then BigRed made the thread anyway.. And was demodded and walked in protest. It was ugly all round. Red was an eFriend of mine but he was so self righteous in his indignation at the time he ignored all the people he modded with.

Pretty much this. At the time TGO had been arrested, maybe twice(?) and there was a large debate about do we make a thread and let everyone talk through it, do we make a closed-thread announcement so no one wonders what happened to TGO but no discussion, do we quietly ban him and go on as though nothing had happened because now it's a legal matter and an official public announcement might drag PW and its archives and laggy servers into the courtroom?

And, I mean, we're volunteer moderators on an Internet forum about people pretending to fight in their underwear and sometimes using VCR remotes to pause each other mid-combat. Mod discussions are usually about whether that "I got a JBL tattoo on my buttcheek" thread should be left as a joke thread for everyone to shitpost in or deleted as spam. But one of our top posters, dedicated Mod/probably high up in line for Supermod, actually met other posters at Manias TGO was a pedo who was preying on kids in our community? We (collectively) didn't know what the hell to do; we weren't prepared for anything like it. This is not the kind of thing you think can actually happen to your little corner of the Internet til it does.

It's been so long that I don't remember for sure but I don't think we as a mod team had even come to anything approaching a final decision yet, but BigRed made that decision for us. I'm not that surprised; he's a very principled guy who sticks to what he thinks is right and what he thought was right was full disclosure even if he had to blindside us to do it. I'm not mad about it now and I wasn't mad about it then -- IIRC of the mod team he was the closest to TGO and probably felt more personally involved/allowed more ownership of the situation than the rest of us who were not quite as emotionally affected -- but I do seem to remember him not really sticking around for much of the fallout after throwing the pipebomb. (Again, it's been so long I might be misremembering.)

incy and Michi said it.  I don't think any of you will ever know what all went on in the mod room during this.  It was ugly.  It ruined friendships.  People left, stepped down, etc.  Things truly were never the same after.   

I am so sorry for everything you went through with all this Lionheart .  I know what it's like to be the victim and not have anyone believe you and it should NEVER be that way.  Like Michi said, we weren't prepared to deal with something like this and did the best we could.  Most of you were just kids to me and I felt like we failed to protect you.  Like it was something we should have seen and I'm sorry about it all.  I truly hope everyone affected has been able to get the closure needed and been able to move forward.

I know we don't have the same amount of posters as we used to but I am so glad HR made this place for our new community and if any of the others come back, well they will be welcomed with open arms.  (not the shit disturbers...fuck them)

iron maiden , some of the shit disturbers never left  :wave:

Sept 25, 2019 23:19:08 GMT iNCY said:

iron maiden , some of the shit disturbers never left 

Yes, well you're our lovable shit disturber so we'll keep you.   

Realistically, if PW was a platform he was using to engage with underage kids, isn’t not wanting to get involved, and then acting on that, a pretty shitty position to take? I can understand why, but realistically ... throwing your hands up is pretty fucking awful.