That one topic that has the ability to divide a room faster than MAGA cap. So while a 16 year old Swedish girl hilariously loses her shit in the direction of all our leaders. Lets actually talk about it. 

The debate around climate change has always baffled me, on the left, we have this bizarre end of days rhetoric that if we don't do something now our world is doomed. Generations will perish as the world around us will die. A mass level extinction event is on our door-steps and it's literally 2 minutes to midnight on the verge of a man-made global catastrophe and it's only the wealthy, the famous, the social, academic and cultural elite and the political left that can save us. The irony is, the carbon footprint of these rich & famous alarmists would be 10 fold that of an average person. 

On the right, there's a staunch denial in anything of this nature is even possible. Yet from the same people, I hear constant talk of the government needing to help our farmers through, yet again another once in a generation, all devouring drought. That same drought that has seemingly gone on since the turn of the millennial in Australia. Politically, socially, is seems admitting any fault or admission that climate change may have been a result of human industry and enterprise comes with a price tag. So the easiest option is to deny its very existence, even to our own detriment. 

For me, I believe in climate change and I wasn't persuaded by anyone on Time's Most Influential list - I've travelled enough, and seen enough in my own part of the world to make up my own mind. And strangely, I would consider myself centre-right-wing. But, for me, it's not a debate of whether it exists, or whether it's a natural warming or cooling of the earth, or whether it's man made. I don't care. It's happening, one way or the other. And the conversations should be moving away from arguing and name calling, and focusing on renewables, and more efficient and cost effective and cleaner alternatives to fossil fuels. Regardless of agenda, why cant we just do things.. better?

I'm wondering where you guys sit? 

On an individual level, the thread title nails it for me:

The impassioned divisive debates on the topic make me want to engage 0% to learn more, regardless of which side I might come out on.

As it stands now, I believe we're probably headed toward climate doom. Some of the signs are there, I guess.

But living a more eco-friendly life is SOOO inconvenient. So fuck it, I don't bother. Why's it up to ME to save the world anyway?

Look at Greta.

Hasn’t washed her hair in fucking months.

I believe it's happening, but I don't really care about the future. Don't get me wrong I'll recycle shit and won't litter, but ehh. I figure given my diet and exercise routine I have another 30 years max. Probably realistically 20. And since I don't have any kids whatever happens beyond that 30 I could care less about. Yeah it's very Boomer fuck you got mine, but whatta gonna do?

Why bring an additional drain on resources into this world to siphon your beliefs into if you don’t think the planet will be inhabitable for their expected lifespan?

I hate everything that Greta stands for, an over opinionated child being played like a puppet.
The truth of the climate change debacle is that a nation throwing its economy off a cliff is not going to make one drop of difference in the world unless everyone does it.

In my country the two biggest election issues spoken about were climate change... And the cost of energy to a household... Which goes to show how idiotic the general public is.
We could smash our manufacturing and agriculture to the correct levels and totally destroy our economy... What would be the net result? Those products would then be made in the third world using even dirtier forms of electricity.

Truth of the matter is that screaming isn't helping, we need cleaner sources of energy and practical stimulus for things such as car pooling and conserving energy... I'm a cynic and I see there will be no change until it's too late.

I am a conservative and I will accept the science on climate change as I am not intelligent enough to interpret the data myself, but I don't see the man made factor as settled as they make it out to be.
Unfortunately, I still have to take their word for it... But stuff Greta

We’re on the right track here in Canada (sort of) with carbon pricing. It’s worked well to reduce emissions and force companies to explore green energy alternatives. But it’s also basically handed the next election to the Conservative party (some other stuff hasn’t helped either but this is the big one they’ve been campaigning on for like two years) and they’re just going to undo everything we’ve worked towards anyway because they’re fucking pricks.

That’s really the only way countries can do anything to help at the moment because of what iNCY said. Throwing your economy off a cliff won’t help unless everyone does it, which won’t happen. You think China is going to clean up their emissions and tank a bazillion dollar export industry? Come on.

I’ve just accepted that climate change is going to cull the herd and we all deserve it. The human race could greatly benefit from half of us dying off.

I’ve always liked a quote I heard. Forget where I heard it, might have been Bill Burr, but it was something like “you think the Earth gives a fuck about climate change? You think it gives a fuck about us? It was fine before us and it’ll be fine when we’re all gone. It’ll just shrug us off like a bad flu.” Maybe that’s what climate change is and we can’t stop it no matter what we do.

Similar to 🤯 , Why is it up to me? I live in an incredible inefficient post-war house with high ceilings that takes an awful amount of energy to heat and cool, we own 3 big cars - one from the 80's - and fucked if I know the difference between the red, the blue recycling and the green waste bins (council sent me a warning letter last week) 

But it doesn't change my mind, or whether it's happening or not. And to add some more clarity, I don't think it's happening to the extent the far-left is telling us it is. I watched an An Inconvenient Truth 13 years ago, and unfortunately for Al Gore, the world hasn't ended. I remember movies shown in primary school in the early 1990's, that warned us of climate change. Yet the world hasn't ended. It's happening. Yes. But, slowly. 

Greta may be a creation of the climate change movement, but I love the fact she is breaking the internet's right-wing, old, white men. 95% of her detractors can't make a valid argument against climate change or in response, and focus solely on one of 3 things. Her age. Her autism. And now, sharing her IMBD page " SHE'S AN ACTOR! SEE! SEE! " But, do any of those things change or take importance away from her message? (Yes, she's melodramatic and over-the-top) But it shouldn't. Leonardo DiCaprio is an actor heavily involved in environmental activism, it doesn't take any importance or weight away from his message.

For a section of the community so hell bent on protecting free-speech, they seem incredibly out-raged a person would exercise their supposed right to it.

So. Yes, contrived and created in a laboratory in Sweden and a rhetoric delivered with an unapologetic bluntness - It doesn't change the message. 

That, and look into those eyes. That's an angry kid. 

Wait; Greta’s actually a thing?

Lmao.

That’s hilarious.

She’s such a loser.

I’m also learning throughout adulthood that most hardcore liberals are in need of medications. I mean, I was only half joking about her hair being dirty but look at her. She hasn’t seen sun, a shower or a fat dick forever. Give me a break with her wannabe Wonder Woman shit. 

Sept 24, 2019 17:40:55 GMT iNCY said:

I hate everything that Greta stands for, an over opinionated child being played like a puppet.
The truth of the climate change debacle is that a nation throwing its economy off a cliff is not going to make one drop of difference in the world unless everyone does it.

In my country the two biggest election issues spoken about were climate change... And the cost of energy to a household... Which goes to show how idiotic the general public is.
We could smash our manufacturing and agriculture to the correct levels and totally destroy our economy... What would be the net result? Those products would then be made in the third world using even dirtier forms of electricity.

Truth of the matter is that screaming isn't helping, we need cleaner sources of energy and practical stimulus for things such as car pooling and conserving energy... I'm a cynic and I see there will be no change until it's too late.

I am a conservative and I will accept the science on climate change as I am not intelligent enough to interpret the data myself, but I don't see the man made factor as settled as they make it out to be.
Unfortunately, I still have to take their word for it... But stuff Greta

Incy pretty much nails it.  I'll add the climate change data has been HORRIBLY manipulated by politicians and activists.    The hyperbole and rhetoric is a huge reason the issue is not taken more seriously by the general public.  In the US we have cretins like AOC making prophecies of doom that the world won't last another 10 years, followed by ridiculous policy proposals that would do nothing but tank the US economy while having NO effect whatsoever on climate change.    Because as Incy pointed out, climate change is a GLOBAL problem.   To even get a good start you would need to get the US, UK, Russia, China and India ALL to agree to the exact same policy.   And that would ONLY be good for a start.

Sept 24, 2019 21:08:11 GMT RT said:

We’re on the right track here in Canada (sort of) with carbon pricing. It’s worked well to reduce emissions and force companies to explore green energy alternatives. But it’s also basically handed the next election to the Conservative party (some other stuff hasn’t helped either

And this is the crux of it ladies and gentlemen... People don't care about climate change, they like to talk about caring... Until it comes out of their pocket.
Everyone wants action but wants everyone else but them to pay... We are all hypocrites!

If it was a kid spouting extreme views about how we’re all going to burn in the depths of hell people would call them brainwashed and
that the parents were responsible.

Why is it different for Greta?

Sept 24, 2019 22:20:02 GMT NATH45 said:

but I love the fact she is breaking the internet's right-wing, old, white men.

(not a old white man but) Exhibit A:

Sept 25, 2019 1:00:33 GMT KING KID said:

Wait; Greta’s actually a thing?

Lmao.

That’s hilarious.

She’s such a loser.

I’m also learning throughout adulthood that most hardcore liberals are in need of medications. I mean, I was only half joking about her hair being dirty but look at her. She hasn’t seen sun, a shower or a fat dick forever. Give me a break with her wannabe Wonder Woman shit. 

dude

SHE IS SIXTEEN

like, i know that teenagers have hormones and all, and are not exactly prudes but

SHE IS SIXTEEN and you're all "lol she just needs a good dicking, looks like she hasn't had one in a while"

Sept 25, 2019 1:11:41 GMT thereallt said:

Incy pretty much nails it.  I'll add the climate change data has been HORRIBLY manipulated by politicians and activists.    The hyperbole and rhetoric is a huge reason the issue is not taken more seriously by the general public.  In the US we have cretins like AOC making prophecies of doom that the world won't last another 10 years, followed by ridiculous policy proposals that would do nothing but tank the US economy while having NO effect whatsoever on climate change.    Because as Incy pointed out, climate change is a GLOBAL problem.   To even get a good start you would need to get the US, UK, Russia, China and India ALL to agree to the exact same policy.   And that would ONLY be good for a start.

That's not quite it. It's more like talking about someone with cancer who is refusing to acknowledge he has cancer and therefore won't get treatment. At some point the cancer will spread to the point where it's now inoperable and you're gonna die. The 10 year mark isn't the day the cancer patient will die, it's the point at which it will have spread to enough organs that you can't successfully do anything about it. Whether this is true or not I couldn't say, but that's the argument.

I'm of mixed opinions on the GND. On the first hand you're absolutely right, the way it was proposed it seems pretty much impossible to meet and a GND or Bust policy would probably wreck the economy. But on the other hand shoot for the moon and even if you miss you'll land among the stars -- even if, say, half or even a third of new major high-rises have living roofs, it'll still drop air conditioning usage significantly (compared to 0%), states build multiple high-speed rail transit connecting suburbs to cities which get a decent chunk of daily commute cars off the road and that's definitely better than nothing.

Also, it seems to be an inevitable fact that the globe is moving more towards sustainable energy. As much shit as we might want to give China on that front (and there is a lot of shit to throw) even they see sustainable energy as the future. We can either be the leader; the vanguard and the brains and the ones who set the standards or we can follow someone else's lead. Putting a man on the moon by the end of the 1960s was, I'm sure, similarly impossible but we managed to do it and, along the way, innovated our way into a ridiculous number of technologies.

Even if you want to be a stick in the mud and deny all the evidence about whether climate change is a current problem, the most bizarre thing to me is how anyone can not be in favour of environmentally friendly government policy? Why would anyone not want to live on a healthier planet? Everyone still breathes air.

So far the prevailing argument in this thread seems to be that there's no point anyone doing anything because it won't make a difference unless everyone does something - that's the reason why we are in the situation we're in, and pretty much what Greta was saying - people who have the ability to make changes can't be stuffed because that would take a bit of effort and it's easier to bury ones head in the sand and do nothing.

ps. did that guy really try and cast the Nazis as left wing?

Sept 25, 2019 6:08:12 GMT @admin said:

Even if you want to be a stick in the mud and deny all the evidence about whether climate change is a current problem, the most bizarre thing to me is how anyone can not be in favour of environmentally friendly government policy? Why would anyone not want to live on a healthier planet? Everyone still breathes air.

So far the prevailing argument in this thread seems to be that there's no point anyone doing anything because it won't make a difference unless everyone does something - that's the reason why we are in the situation we're in, and pretty much what Greta was saying - people who have the ability to make changes can't be stuffed because that would take a bit of effort and it's easier to bury ones head in the sand and do nothing.

ps. did that guy really try and cast the Nazis as left wing?

Have you seen the way Antifa act?   They could easily pass for Brownshirts.

Has anyone in this thread actively set out and done something that would combat climate change?

This is how.

Thanks Canada. <3

Sept 25, 2019 6:08:12 GMT @admin said:

Even if you want to be a stick in the mud and deny all the evidence about whether climate change is a current problem, the most bizarre thing to me is how anyone can not be in favour of environmentally friendly government policy? Why would anyone not want to live on a healthier planet? Everyone still breathes air.

So far the prevailing argument in this thread seems to be that there's no point anyone doing anything because it won't make a difference unless everyone does something - that's the reason why we are in the situation we're in, and pretty much what Greta was saying - people who have the ability to make changes can't be stuffed because that would take a bit of effort and it's easier to bury ones head in the sand and do nothing.

ps. did that guy really try and cast the Nazis as left wing?

I don't think most people take issue with the notion of a cleaner environment, it has to be a good thing. If it was to take the destruction of our economies to achieve it... Then let's have that discussion,but if destroy your economy and the same products are manufactured in a different economy then it is for nothing.

All forms of carbon pricing and ets schemes work by bankrupting heavy emitting industries, so as long as we are all clear about what that looks like and understand what it is going to do to the sheer cost of electric cars etc.

The problem HR with your demographic is that they're all about idealism with no ideas about what the solution looks like. What is the solution? A workable solution? And how does a nation do it in isolation?

A big part of the problem is that there is no proper dialogue of what it would look like in our economies to meet the Paris climate targets. We are not going to hit the targets... Most nations aren't because nobody is going to accept a tiny house with one electric car no meat and a crippling increase in the price of everything.

Sept 25, 2019 7:32:17 GMT System said:

Has anyone in this thread actively set out and done something that would combat climate change?

I recently built a large shed. I had two options with the rain water. Either trench up the yard and connect it to the storm-water drain and the water runs down the drain and is gone forever. Or install a rain-water tank and collect the water for private use.

For less than $1000, I had a 2550lt / 673g tank delivered and installed and connected to the shed. While it's not exactly saving the planet, I can catch water during the winter and water the garden in the summer. I'm saving on water consumption, and it's literally a free resource that fell from the sky. 

A simply policy could be made, that any shed built over a certain size requires a tank. This being your only option, unless your property is short on space. And even then, new homes could have a tank running off one corner of the house. 

A simply measure. I know, it won't change the world. But I if collected 2500lt, and additional so did 100 other new homes / sheds, we would collect 250,000lt. 




PS. It was also the cheaper and easier option. 

Sept 25, 2019 6:08:12 GMT @admin said:

Even if you want to be a stick in the mud and deny all the evidence about whether climate change is a current problem, the most bizarre thing to me is how anyone can not be in favour of environmentally friendly government policy? Why would anyone not want to live on a healthier planet? Everyone still breathes air.

This is my general response to the “we shouldn’t do anything because the temperatures are cyclical”. The worst case scenario of movement towards cleaner energy is that there’s cleaner energy and we all die from naturally occurring global warming instead.

But instead, like all other things at least here in America, it’s like pro sports where the red shirts say yay carbon emissions and why hasn’t that 16 year old had sex yet and the blue shirts say boo carbon emissions and anyone who wears red shirts is a moron and nothing happens. There’s nothing in the middle, it’s either not happening at all or definitely happening and we’re all gonna die.

Sept 25, 2019 7:32:17 GMT System said:

Has anyone in this thread actively set out and done something that would combat climate change?

We tried to have solar panels installed on our roof but it was going to cost $25,000. Hopefully in the near future the price of that will come down and we can revisit it. And once our truck is paid off we’re buying a Tesla.

Other than that, we live as environmentally conscious as we can, and we vote for members of parliament that have good environmental policies.

There’s not a whole lot the average person can do other than that. The “well what have YOU done?” argument is kind of stupid too considering the average person doesn’t contribute to global warming like the factory down the stream pumping millions of tons of carbon into the atmosphere with no repercussions. If I could walk into the building and shut the factory down I would, but that’s a felony, so...

I don't think I'm going to offer anything new here, some people have said what I wanted to say, but I want to share my perspective anyway.

Sept 25, 2019 5:19:25 GMT Michinokudriver said:

That's not quite it. It's more like talking about someone with cancer who is refusing to acknowledge he has cancer and therefore won't get treatment. At some point the cancer will spread to the point where it's now inoperable and you're gonna die. The 10 year mark isn't the day the cancer patient will die, it's the point at which it will have spread to enough organs that you can't successfully do anything about it. Whether this is true or not I couldn't say, but that's the argument.

Great analogy. Nobody is saying the world is going to end tomorrow, or in one year, or even in 10 years, if we don't do anything. At the current rate the earth's average temperature is increasing, the earth will be much less habitable in some relatively small amount of years. Two or three generations time, maybe. If we don't take action to significantly reduce the rate of our greenhouse gas emissions, our children's children's children could be enduring a very bleak climate.

While the average citizen can do their part to reduce carbon emissions, plastic waste, and so on, the real change needs to come from corporations, etc. We all know this. Activists like Greta, who has a huge amount of courage and my eternal respect even if she may not deliver her message in a way that pleases everybody (will it ever please everybody?), use short, powerful, hyperbolic messages to try and change this. Because, let's face it, that's the most efficient way to get through to the most people. It's exactly how Trump and many others throughout history have attracted the votes of the masses, even when they bend the truth or outright lie. Not saying Greta is bending the truth, and she's certainly not outright lying, she's just trying to get the message across in the most effective way, and she's done that to such an extent that she's become world famous. Good for her.

I'm fortunate enough to work for a fairly big global company that is very environmentally conscious. Within our company there are always initiatives to encourage employees/teams to propose waste reduction ideas, and the company will fund the best ideas and reward the idea-makers. It's great, and this kind of enterprise-wide change could make a huge different if even half of the world's biggest companies made similar investments. Unfortunately most people/groups in power tend to think very short-term and very selfishly (take a look at Brazilian's president actively encouraging the burning of the Amazon rainforest for profit), and it's extremely difficult to change that mindset. In a way, it's human nature. Unfortunately it's not compatible with the planet's nature.

Michinokudriver- Once she gets good dick, she’ll forget about climate change. Bet on it.

Sept 25, 2019 21:16:45 GMT KING KID said:

Michinokudriver - Once she gets good dick, she’ll forget about climate change. Bet on it.

Kid, the American hero we all need and deserve. Take one for the team brother.

Sept 25, 2019 21:16:45 GMT KING KID said:

Michinokudriver- Once she gets good dick, she’ll forget about climate change. Bet on it.

Take this to the TGO thread where it belongs, you weirdo.

-_-

In 2 years, when she is legally allowed to get dick, she will forget about climate change.*

Better?

Sept 25, 2019 21:44:40 GMT KING KID said:

-_-

In 2 years, when she is legally allowed to get dick, she will forget about climate change.*

Better?

Thank you.

Part of me thinks yes, we have fucked up the earth. And the other part of me says 'climate change' is inevitable. Throughout the millions of years that the Earth has existed there have been countless ice ages and heat eras. Are we speeding it up, my Magic 8 Ball says the chances are good. That being said, everyone has to get on board with emission reductions. Canada has been steadily under the microscope for years, but we have some of the most strict environmental laws and lowest emissions. My mom and I are avid recyclers, we compost, we've looked at ways to cut down our plastic and packaging use but we are one household. We both still drive cars to work because of transit system sucks ass and if I rode a bike I'd have to start at midnight to get to work on time. Never mind the 6-9 months of the year we have winter so it's moot.

RT said it though, the Earth will survive long after us. This might actually be her way of saying 'get the fuck off, there's too many of you' and I agree when he said, everything would benefit from a good culling. It would of course be tragic and likely affect all of us, but we are becoming Atlantis and we will be our own undoing.  Arrogant humans.   

Sept 25, 2019 9:25:51 GMT iNCY said:

Sept 25, 2019 6:08:12 GMT @admin said:

Even if you want to be a stick in the mud and deny all the evidence about whether climate change is a current problem, the most bizarre thing to me is how anyone can not be in favour of environmentally friendly government policy? Why would anyone not want to live on a healthier planet? Everyone still breathes air.

So far the prevailing argument in this thread seems to be that there's no point anyone doing anything because it won't make a difference unless everyone does something - that's the reason why we are in the situation we're in, and pretty much what Greta was saying - people who have the ability to make changes can't be stuffed because that would take a bit of effort and it's easier to bury ones head in the sand and do nothing.

ps. did that guy really try and cast the Nazis as left wing?

I don't think most people take issue with the notion of a cleaner environment, it has to be a good thing. If it was to take the destruction of our economies to achieve it... Then let's have that discussion,but if destroy your economy and the same products are manufactured in a different economy then it is for nothing.

All forms of carbon pricing and ets schemes work by bankrupting heavy emitting industries, so as long as we are all clear about what that looks like and understand what it is going to do to the sheer cost of electric cars etc.

The problem HR with your demographic is that they're all about idealism with no ideas about what the solution looks like. What is the solution? A workable solution? And how does a nation do it in isolation?

A big part of the problem is that there is no proper dialogue of what it would look like in our economies to meet the Paris climate targets. We are not going to hit the targets... Most nations aren't because nobody is going to accept a tiny house with one electric car no meat and a crippling increase in the price of everything.

I don't follow carbon pricing talk that closely but it barely took me more than a quick google search to find all sorts of studies that talk about reducing carbon emissions having a positive impact on the economy because of reduced agricultural productivity, increase in natural disasters, etc.  

I pay quite a lot of attention to public transport discourse so I'll go into a bit more detail on something that I do know a bit more about. Using our state government as an example - a relatively progressive government at that - current transport projects sit at about 17 billion on road related projects, compared to about 7 billion for public transport. When there is so much evidence out there that extending/widening/building new highways makes next to no difference in reducing traffic congestion, it is absolutely ludicrous that we are spending so much money on things that will result in no discernible improvements. Basically all money should be invested in public transport not only for environmental factors, but for all the other associated urban and social advantages.

Sept 25, 2019 21:16:45 GMT KING KID said:

Michinokudriver - Once she gets good dick, she’ll forget about climate change. Bet on it.

So you're saying I just need a good dicking too and then I won't worry about climate change?

How long til you can get out here?