I think I've posted about this before but as a new fan back when Brock debuted I was honestly terrified of the guy when he came in and destroyed the Hardys who I loved at the time, hence the username. That Raw segment where Jeff absolutely pinged him in the head with one of the loudest chair shots ever and he basically no sold it scared 12 year old HR to the core.

Like Baker I haven't bothered to seek out many of his matches in the last couple of years. They piqued my interest with the Daniel Bryan feud (and I loved that Survivor Series match) but overall it kinda blows me away that his return feud with Cena was eight years ago now.

I didn't really catch much of the Brock/Kurt feud because I think it was during the time WWE was inconsistently on TV here - and don't think I ever watched their Wrestlemania match with the botched SSP. I do remember the Iron Man match clearly though with that great angle where Brock intentionally lost a fall at the start of the match by using a chair. Kurt was definitely one of my favourites at this point, and had been ever since I started watching during the Invasion. Although everyone shits on Austin turning heel, little mark me was all in on their rivalry and honestly thought their matches were life or death stuff. Kurt winning the WWF title in front of his hometown crowd in Pittsburgh was epic.

I've always loved Angle because he could pivot between super SRS and hilarious so easily. He has so many classic comedy moments but never sacrificed his legitimacy along the way. He did one of the all time great star making efforts with Edge in 2002, before that absolutely money Smackdown Six period. His last few WWE years weren't quite as good although there were some individually great moments like him singing Sexy Boy with Sherri Martel during his feud with HBK, and a really great world title match with Undertaker.

His debut confronting Samoa Joe in TNA was a ridiculously good segment but unfortunately they fumbled the momentum of something that should have really put them over the top. They should have gone on to have a classic rivalry but they killed a lot of Joe's credibility when Kurt ended his streak in their first match and I never really paid attention again. It was pretty wild that people online were genuinely scared that he might die in the ring when he left WWE, and he went on to wrestle for another decade still doing absolutely insane things like the moonsault off the top of the cage.

Wow.

Christian is way too high. SMH. Only reason he should be this close to Kurt and Brock is because he's getting an F-5 or getting his ankle snapped in an Ankle Lock.

Kurt Angle is one of my favorites of all time. So versatile. Perfect wrestler, IMO. Wrestles extremely well and has excellent character and charisma.

And then there's Brock. The baddest MOFO ever.

Also, I had Brock at 11 and Kurt at 13 and that's something I made an error on.

Kurt definitely deserves to be higher then Brock.

#15 Kurt Angle
13 Votes-401 Points
High Vote: #6
Last Time: #12
**MY VOTE: #8**

It felt like Kurt and I were introduced to real-time WWF at the same time as each other. Sure, technically he debuted in late 1999, and sure... technically I didn't get SmackDown! on UPN (or at least realize I did) until earyl-ish 2000, BUT WHATEVAH... close enough!

Similar to Regal, early Kurt was so organic and effective at his heel schtick that he was easy to love to hate at first. You know you're good when you're such a good heel that my dad takes notice of your heat in passing and cites you as a guy he likes or one of his favorites (because PI3 is a shit-stirrer like that). Kurt & RTC Steven Richards were the only two to ever earn that distinction.

Meanwhile, real-time PI4 was maybe two years into amateur wrestling at that point... which I'd mistakenly gotten into in sixth grade thinking that's where I'd learn how to be like Stone Cold. I don't think I was fully over the rude awakening of the reality of what REAL wrestling was by the time Kurt debuted, so I think on some level at the time I still had a bit of a grudge against "amateur wrestling" and thus amateur wrestlers - which Kurt was the poster boy of/for. Plus, Kurt was a fucking dork! And in middle school, nothing was more important than OOZING testosterone and coolness (i.e., Razor Ramon machismo).

It also didn't help that Steve-o the Weasel was Kurt's biggest dick-suck fan. Like to an annoying degree. Like similar to my Brock love. So that was automatically off-putting and a mark against Kurt. But Steve-o the Weasel was also probably the only fellow school chum who LOVED pro wrestling as much as I did. So I tolerated his tastes and rants, presented my view points, and ultimately we'd watch and debrief and debate things about the current product. I think the only thing we ever really saw eye-to-eye on through 2000 was both thinking Benoit was WAY better than Jericho and wishing Benoit was the face and Jericho was the heel. Anyway...

I think Steve-o's love started around when Kurt won the 2000 KOTR crown. Around this time, Team ECK was really hitting it's stride... and I was a closet Kurt fan, loving his stuff when watching at home by myself... but refusing to sell it at school or on the bus. When Kurt had a shot at the world title at SummerSlam, Steve-o's hype and anticipation was ratcheted to eleven. He'd rants non-stop all week every week about how Kurt's credentials as not only a REAL wrestler but an OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALIST meant he could tie Rock and HHH into knots on whim if he wanted to. So Kurt was definitely winning, and then gonna go bang Steph! Steve-o was IRATE when Kurt was robbed by the concussion caused by the botched table spot.

Then Kurt won the title and became the best version of Honky Tonk Man to ever exist. It felt like his reign lasted FOREVER. We were all desperate for ANYONE to take the belt off of Kurt. Assumed it'd be a given that Taker would do it at Survivor Series 2000. But then Eric Angle makes his debut. What a cool and unexpected swerve! And in reality, Taker didn't deserve to win the title anyway wearing those pants. Then the six-man HIAC is booked for Armageddon, and me and Steve-o are both losing our minds. We'd seen clips of the previous HIAC matches, so we knew this meant someone (if not everyone) involved was gonna be going flying off the top of the cage. Steve-o was a nervous wreck because odds were stacked against poor Kurt. I was stoked because odds were 5:1 or whatever the belt would FINALLY come off Kurt (although please god don't put it on Bad Man Rikishi).

A lot of things happened in December 2000. First, my house FINALLY got cable. I still think it was because I was so excited about the six-man HIAC that I finally got my stodgy ol' dad to crack. So we got cable, and I got to order my first-ever PPV. And I got to invite Steve-o over to watch Armageddon... so we could watch live together as Kurt hopefully lost (or defended) his belt. I was LIVID when Kurt retained. But more so because of how insufferably joyous Steve-o was. But honestly, Kurt had earned my respect with his gutsy performance. And by that point, I was invested in the Love TriAngle story too. So I had all the time in the world to continue watching Kurt through his program with HHH for the Rumble, and dug his matches with Austin on the road there.

Kurt had won over my respect enough that I recall sympathizing with Steve-o in the wake of No Way Out, being bummed Kurt got the title yanked off him at the last minute before 'Mania... just to shoehorn in a Rock/Austin rematch. Steve-o got invited over for my second-ever PPV, WrestleMania X-Seven. Inspired by Kurt, Steve-o had joined the wrestling team and was ALL about REAL wrestling. And we were equally intrigued by the Angle/Benoit match at WMX7. We both LOVED the REAL wrestling moves showcased in the first part of the match. It made it feel so different, like something we never really got to see in the WWF. And we were both convinced Angle/Benoit would be the low key best match of the card. An opinion I still hold today, TBH. No gimmicks or funny finihses needed, it stands right up there IMO with TLCII / Vince vs. Shane / Rock vs. Austin II / Taker vs. HHH / and the hardcore triple threat.

ANYWAY... Baker-man storytime over.

Kurt just continued to grow on me, and his rivalry with Benoit in 2001 went a long way to really raise Kurt's stock in my book. Everything they did was awesome. I was fully onboard with Kurt. I wanted him to be the de facto caption of Team: WRECK (which was never a thing, but should've been)... I wanted him to be the first-ever back-to-back KOTR winner. I loved his comedy stuff in the summer as he angled to be HHH's replacement in the Two Man Power Trip. I wanted him to dethrone Austin at SummerSlam so bad when things turned serious. I loved his feel-good hometown win moment. In the wake of 9/11, I thought Kurt made perfect sense to push to the moon as Captain USA super face. But then they made him a mole for the Alliance. Boo! But Kurt is teflon, so he mostly made it work. It's sad he had to start slumming it with no real direction... but he made chicken salad out of chicken shit with matches against Rhyno, Kane, etc. that were way better than they had any right to be.

Since I hated (and still hate) Y2J as the first-ever Undisputed Champion so much, I'll always be a proponent of Kurt being the surprise alternative. Re-establish him with some relevance. He works just as well if not better in a relationship with Steph and as a foil for HHH. Or, if not that, at least have him win the 2002 Royal Rumble in Atlanta as a nod to his Olympic win and to complete the notches in his achievement belt... just to have HHH beat him at No Way Out for the 'Mania main event title shot. Then, instead of fucking Kane, at least give me the "Perfect Kurt/Curt" classic of Angle vs. Hennig at WMX8.

The stuff with Edge was star-making. The brief wig-and-headgear angle was good fun. Then Kurt made Hogan tap, which should've been such a bigger deal than it was made out to be. Then Kurt starts having wrestling clinics with Taker. The Vengeance 2002 triple threat. Top 10 greatest match ever. Then Kurt bullies cruiserweights because he has nothing better to do, and singlehandedly establishes newcomer Rey as a star for WWE fans.

As if Kurt's stock in my eyes couldn't get any higher, then the SmackDown! Six period really kicked into gear. The renewed rivalry/tag team with Benoit was awesome. And then it lead to perhaps my favorite match of all time... Royal Rumble 2003. Angle and Benoit transcended there. To me, they had officially joined Brock on an untouchable god tier.

Unfortunately, injuries started to catch up to Kurt. And they were serious injuries. It sounded like his neck was hanging on by a string. There were fears he wouldn't make it to WMXIX. It resulted in some weird booking on the road to WMXIX - including another Eric Angle swerve for old times sake. Kurt is a SOLDIER though, toughs it out, makes it to 'Mania... and go figure, it's Brock who almost ends up paralyzed. As touched on before elsewhere, even watching in real time as well as going back afterward, I never really liked the WMXIX match as much as I thought I would... and I think that's because of how high the bar of expectation was, even despite knowing about Kurt's injury. In hindsight, part of me wonders if they should've run Kurt/Brock earlier in 2002 and then let it breathe before coming back to it later in 2003. Give Kurt some rest time to heal injuries. I've also wondered about the storyline and face/heel dynamic. Part of me thinks it would've worked better as Brock remaining monster heel champion straight on through... Kurt/Benoit RR2003 happening at No Way Out or on SmackDown! for the 'Mania title shot instead of the WWE title (after maybe a returning HBK wins the '03 Rumble instead?). Then, the leaking stories about Kurt's health work in our favor. He has shoot underdog sympathy. Plus there's no way he's defeating dominant Brock for the belt at 'Mania if he's injured and due to be out for surgery. Then, at 'Mania, SURPRISE OF ALL SURPRISES! Kurt counters a second F5 attempt with a flash small package to be the first man to pin Brock!!! But then, sadly, because Brock gave him such a beating... Kurt is forced to vacate the belt to go have surgery after 'Mania. Brock beats Cena for the vacant title in the final finals of the tournament at Backlash.

ANYWAY...

Kurt's booking kinda went back to meandering for me post-Brock, and my interest in WWE was honestly probably waning a bit even before being robbed of Benoit/Lesnar II. I wasn't too hot to trot on Kurt coming back and being randomly inserted into the Guerrero family feud. I'm not sure what real-time me wanted for Kurt at WMXX, even prior to Brock dropping the belt to Eddie. Kurt/Eddie at WMXX ended up being so good, maybe that still works... just doesn't need the title involved in my revisionist history?

Kurt would continue to be a pimp in the ring, and continue to have some all-time great comedy moments... but he also seemed to be rapidly breaking down. I was one of the ones afraid he'd die in the ring. And his release in 2006 was surprising but also not. I just wanted Kurt to get healthy and come back. But then he popped up in TNA. And I never watched him there because I didn't want to watch a hero die a tragic death.

This just reminded me of something. In high school during an assembly and they had a dude cosplay as Kurt. Hearing that theme in the auditorium was insane. They also had a Rock and he was pretty awesome too.

Dunno what the point was. Just remember Kurt saying "nobody ever remembers second" which I guess was Rocky? So he rock bottomed him through the table before posing to issssssss cookin.

I assume they were actual guys from the wrestling team living out a fantasy and the Kurt won the real match?

Bizarre as fuck.

Oh fuck, also, re: Kurt—

How could I forget?!

PITTSBURGH, BABAY!!~

Wow I didn't even have to say anything, jTjohncenaGOAT and Baker did it for me, but I'm gonna.

I didn't have Angle on my list. I'm not sure why he didn't resonate with me, because looking back I certainly enjoyed his segments and matches. I think he was more of an acquired taste for me over the years and one now that I certainly appreciate and respect.

Believe it or not there is one wrestler I dislike more than Brock. Goldberg. Both of them represent to me everything that is wrong with WWE/WCW booking. Goldberg with his 2 moves of doom...WIN and Brock with his mercenary ways and sloppy arsenal where I am truly surprised more of his opponents haven't been injured. At least he has more than 2 moves though. I actually didn't mind him at first, but then all the 'poor Brock' drama happened and I was like 'fuck this guy'. Him not defending the title for months, only doing whole matches of German Suplexes, part time status only fuels my dislike. Never mind the fact that I don't think he actually LIKES wrestling. He certainly could give two shits about the fans and often I feel like he feels the same way about his fellow wrestlers. It comes across to me every time I see him. The last time I actually saw something worth watching from him was the Royal Rumble. He actually came across like he gave a shit and put in an effort. It incenses me that other wrestlers get put on the back burner for this guy.

My two cents. Sorry 🤯

I had Kurt Angle low on my list, at No. 35.  I liked Kurt, I could appreciate his in ring skills but I just never really connected with him the same as I did some of the others.  I liked him best when he did his skits with Edge and Christian.  

I am of the belief that if you've got nothing good to say about something or someone, don't say anything.  This brings me to Lesnar.  I despise Lesnar more than anyone else in wrestling, even more than I despise Hogan and Goldberg.  The only reason I don't skip everything Brock related on a show is literally because of Paul Heyman.  Now, that said I am saying something here because I do have something good to say about Brock, (Baker covered my thoughts of the guy pretty eloquently, really) (also, not sorry 🤯).

My one good thing about Lesnar is this year's Royal Rumble.  Initially when I watched it, I was so clouded by my Lesnar hate that I destested it, that first half anyway.  Then I came to realise Brock, and Paul Heyman - cause we all know it whose doing it was - told a hell of a story in that match.  He put Drew over great, the whole thing was a masterclass in storytelling and while Heyman masterminded it, Brock executed it to perfection.  I will give credit where it's due, and it was due there.  Now I have nothing else good to say about Lesnar  :lol:

Curious if there's a correlation between Zoolander hate and Lesnar hate.

Jun 12, 2020 16:35:16 GMT 🤯 said:

Curious if there's a correlation between Zoolander hate and Lesnar hate.

No, because both Rogue and I were Team Zoolander.

Rogue.  I remembered someone else I loathed almost as much as Brock...Chris Masters.  Man did I dislike him.

Jun 12, 2020 16:52:57 GMT iron maiden said:

Jun 12, 2020 16:35:16 GMT 🤯 said:

Curious if there's a correlation between Zoolander hate and Lesnar hate.

No, because both Rogue and I were Team Zoolander.

Rogue.  I remembered someone else I loathed almost as much as Brock...Chris Masters.  Man did I dislike him.

Touché.

Guess we can't all have good taste in all things.

Maiden hates roided meatheads named Gary.

Jun 12, 2020 16:52:57 GMT iron maiden said:

Jun 12, 2020 16:35:16 GMT 🤯 said:

Curious if there's a correlation between Zoolander hate and Lesnar hate.

No, because both Rogue and I were Team Zoolander.

Rogue .  I remembered someone else I loathed almost as much as Brock...Chris Masters.  Man did I dislike him.

I didn't hate Masters as much as you, but I do remember many a rant from you about him  :lol:

I have a few I despise too, currently I can't abide Lashley, never liked the guy and now it's ramped up even more.  What a waste of space.

Jun 12, 2020 3:17:02 GMT 🤯 said:

I have a draft in progress on Kurt on my work computer, so I'll skip to Brock

Who deserves a writeup sober, but maybe I'll high enough to unleash all the beauty

Where to begin?

2002
March 18
Day One
No ish
Instant. Mark. Love.

Like Psyco Sid but scarier, with legit amateur credentials. Something straight outta Streetfighter.

The push helped. And the generosity, of all those squashed so gloriously. But Brock was also clearly just a phenom talent

He had that GOAT selling even from Day One

And he's just gotten better with age
Like bleu cheese I guess?

What else is there to say
That hasn't been said?

Still can't tell if Dr. Emperor loves, or is just genius level satire. I love it either way, and totally agree. Genuinely.

But also take that love, crank it to a thousand, and apply liberally across first run as well.

My #1. Then, now, forever, always. Can do no wrong. Can even murder eat my firstborn and get a pass from me.

Really need to get back to #BROCKTOBER

OK, let's try this while sober...

#1 BROCK LESNAR
100 Votes-10,000 Points
High Vote: #1
Last Time: #1
**MY VOTE: #1**

I wonder if perhaps some Hobbit-style prequel/prologue would be helpful here?

My introduction to wrestling came via video tapes that generally lagged the current product by 1-5 years. Lacking cable and not being allowed to watch TV on weekdays, my only real-time exposure to live wrestling was WWF on Saturdays at the end of the morning cartoon block on FOX. Pretty sure Baker-man has helped me suss out that the show I'm remembering was probably just Superstars, but... who really knows. Syndication is a tricky bitch.

I remember feeling really out of the loop one summer vacation when my brash and spoiled little cousins came running up to greet me with middle fingers, cuss words, and telling me they were gonna open up cans of whoop ass on me because Stone Cold said so. I'm like... are they talking about a wrestler? When did wrestling turn into Jerry Springer? Because at the time, I was probably still wading through my 1995 WWF video tapes. I thought I wanted no part of whatever the current product was if it was anything like what my cousins were representing.

But then I got an N64, and WWF Warzone, then WWF Attitude, and eventually the THQ/AKI games. And probably just as much if not more so than video tapes, my mind was opened to and blown by a whole new wide world of colorful characters. I know had a new mission: to seek out as much real time current product by any means necessary. If I was over a friend's house and that friend had cable (regardless of whether that friend was into wrestling or not)... sneakily/casually flip over to RAW. Staying at Shoney's for the weekends dad dragged us to the racetrack? Hey, at least the motel had cable TV! RAW!!!

Stone Cold, who I'd previously written off without knowing him from Adam (because of my annoying cousins), was now all I wanted in wrestling and all I aspired to be. I ended up with a WMXIV highlights tape, and would saunter around the basement with that Stone Cold stagger for hours in excitement after rewatching him win the title. It was wanting to be Stone Cold that got me into real wrestling. I saw some flyer for the county wrestling team, thought that that's how you learn how to become Stone Cold, and so I convinced my parents to let me go out for it. Wasn't at all what I was expecting, but fuck it, it was still fun, so I stuck with it.

Then, around 2000, the stars all started to align. Still no cable until December 2000. Still no TV allowed during weekdays. But some balls were set in motion. PI3 was getting sick of the phone bills from dial-up internet, as well as the phone line being occupied whenever someone was on the internet, and we ALL hated when the internet connection would get cut by someone unknowingly picking up the phone. So the idea of broadband internet was probably the most compelling reason in PI3's mind. No cable wasn't the worst issue though, as SmackDown! was now airing on terrestrial channel UPN. And while maybe I wasn't allowed to watch during the week, I was totally allowed to tape the week's episode and get caught up first thing Saturday morning over cereal.

Eventually PI3 cracked and allowed me and my sister one show per week so long as we were getting homework and chores done. Of course, I picked SmackDown. But my idiot little sister picked Friends, which aired on the same night and time. So we'd have to trade off, with the other taping their show on the off week and catching up whenever they could. But, when I started wrestling for my school as well as the county team, practices became more regular and longer... so it ended up that I couldn't catch SmackDown "live" anyway. By the time I'd get home from practices, get showered up, eat leftover dinner, get homework/chores done, etc. it'd be like 10pm. So I feel into the habit of watching my SmackDown! tapes on Friday afternoons.

All was well... could've been better, but wasn't too shabby. In it's first full year, SmackDown! hadn't totally devolved into a RAW repeat yet. Sure, the better/cooler/more exciting stuff was still happening on RAW. And I'd get Tuesday morning recaps from Steve-o and other buddies at school, while also trying to avoid SmackDown! spoilers like the plague. I think I started venturing into the IWC around this time, but also leaned more heavily on wrestling mags and PWI Alamanacs and shit. I think I recall a couple of AIM chat rooms around wrestling that were impossible to keep up with. No idea how ANYONE could understand or follow chatrooms and that endless rapid stream of text. Honestly, probably found PW for the first time before I can even remember anymore.

Then... the hype for the six-man HIAC at Armageddon was the tipping point. That and whatever my sister and mom were ball-busting PI3 over. In conjunction with the perks of broadband internet, PI3 cracked and hooked us up to Comcast. From that point on, I was consuming RAW live as my show of the week and taping SmackDown to watch on the weekends as my clever work-around. Late 2000 through WMX7 was an epic time to become a full-on all-in real time fan. Rock was hot as hell and already headed for Hollywood... HHH was established and a cool heel ready for a face turn... Taker was back with a bad ass biker twist, Kane was on fire... Austin was returning, and there were fresh new faces in Benoit/Jericho/Kurt that showed all sorts of promise as the next batch of main event guys. The midcard was stacked with hot acts like Rikishi and Too Cool, the TLC trio and APA, Eddie & Chyna, RTC, and personal guilty pleasures like T&A. Such a great time to be alive!

And everything crescendoed with the craziest series of events come WrestleMania X-7... ECW folded, WWF bought WCW, and Austin turned heel to join forces with Vince McMahon to end the greatest wrestling show in history. It was clear in real time that it was the end of something, but it was unclear what might lay ahead. And unfortunately, despite scattered bright spots, what lay ahead was a lackluster InVasion that dragged on and convinced me beyond a shadow of doubt that WWF and probably all of pro wrestling was dead and/or at least dying a slow death. Rolling over into 2002, I was convinced it was just a matter of a few years before WWF would be out of business. WMX8 seemed like such a massive downgrade from a year prior, even despite Rock/Hogan.

But then...

The night after WMX8...

HE debuted.

=====

TO BE CONTINUED!

Rogue said it, the best thing about Brock is Heyman.

Loving all these 🤯 storytimes. I was definitely the Steve-o of eastern Baltimore County. Will cover my own Steve-odom tonight. Then drop two more names before I go to sleep. I've come to realize my negative posts draw way more 'likes' than my positive ones.

Jun 12, 2020 21:19:13 GMT Baker said:

Loving all these 🤯 storytimes. I was definitely the Steve-o of eastern Baltimore County. Will cover my own Steve-odom tonight. Then drop two more names before I go to sleep. I've come to realize my negative posts draw way more 'likes' than my positive ones.

Baker-man draws dimes, but...

Bitter Baker draws quarters!

Jun 12, 2020 21:25:57 GMT 🤯 said:

Jun 12, 2020 21:19:13 GMT Baker said:

Baker -man draws dimes, but...

Bitter Baker draws quarters!

B...but I only want dimes. For I love dimes the way Little Cornelius loves farthings or that jerk Lucy loves her nickels. Sweet, sweet dimes. Oh, how I love thee.

6. Kurt Angle (#15)- I was the high vote for Kurt.

Despite being a fan of the Olympics, I did not recall seeing, or even hearing about Kurt's Olympic glory until he signed with WWF. Fairly certain I missed out on it due to being on "the homemade Horsemen shirt" vacation in North Carolina. Nor did I learn about Kurt's one and done ECW appearance until he had been in WWF for a few years. I followed him in Memphis developmental fed PPW before his WWF run. I actually did not have high hopes for Kurt in those days. I just had this idea he was going to be another "Boring" Brad Rheingans. So he wasn't exactly a Day One guy. More like a Day Three guy once I realized where WWF was going with his (brilliant) gimmick. 

It's been said a million times, but I'll say it once more- Kurt was a natural. He quickly picked up on both the in ring aspect and the sports entertainment aspect of professional wrestling. I didn't put 2 and 2 together until well after the fact, but I think another big reason I loved Kurt so much was because he reminded me of the late, great Owen Hart. Like Owen, Kurt could be comedic or vicious, and he did it all with a twinkle in his eye. He also had Owen's in ring smoothness. Plus a  GOAT level moonsault (it's either Kurt or Scorpio). Kurt also had tremendous stamina. Other wrestlers, including Austin- a stamina guy himself, have commented on Kurt never tiring in the ring.

Aside from RVD, Flair, Daniels, and HHH maybe slipping in for a week or two here and there, Kurt was my favorite wrestler from February 2000-October 2002. In other words, from Foley's retirement until Matt Hardy Version 1.0 started picking up steam. That's the longest 'favorite' stretch any wrestler ever had with my fickle self. Kurt was also a Top 3 fave every single year from 2000-2006, which is another Baker best. Face or heel, comedic HTM-style guy or badass wrestling machine....Kurt Angle could do no wrong in my eyes.

Like 🤯's buddy Steve-o, I was preaching the Gospel of the Three I's. I regret this now. So many of my friends were good proper wrestling fans who initially disliked Kurt the way they were supposed to. But then my dumbass would brainwash them with lengthy diatribes beginning thusly "Actually, this is why Kurt Angle does NOT suck....." I was too persuasive. Every Kurt hater save one almost immediately saw things from my perspective after I explained why Kurt Angle was actually great. So, yeah, blame me for killing the business. I deserve it.

Anyway, early Kurt ruled even more than later Kurt. The Three I's. The glorious "virginity" segment at Penn St. Becoming the first Eurocontinental Champion (D'Lo Brown doesn't count!). Being the perfect victim for Taz. His whole "holier than thou" attitude was a hoot. Getting screwed out of both titles without ever being pinned or submitted. Then whining about it in classic Kurt fashion. He was cutting some of the best promos in the business on a roster chock full of great promo guys as a rookie. Just a glorious sports entertainer. I marked out when he won KOTR, which was coincidentally was the first PPV I ever watched with the members of my new clique. 

I was bummed out when Angle failed to capture the WWF Championship at Summerslam but that only made me happier when he finally won the belt two months later at No Mercy. Kurt had reached the top of the mountain as a rookie and I was totally cool with it. What a guy! Too bad the HHH feud fizzled out though. If Steph had went with Kurt that would only have added to his already immense heat.

PI mentioned Kurt being a great Honkytonk Man style champ and I concur. The Eric Angle shenanigans at Survivor Series were more sports entertainment gold. I'm the high vote on that match because it's so clever. Then he survived the 6 Way HIAC in classic Kurt fashion. Then he won a disappointing match against HHH at the Rumble before dropping the belt to Rocky. Boo!

I wasn't really into the first Benoit feud until it wound down with that awesome cage match on Raw. Up to that point I thought of Angle as a sports entertainer first, and wrestler a distant second. But the Cage Match was followed by the brutal Shane McMahon match and now Angle, the Olympic Gold Medalist, was finally a "great wrestler" in my mind. 2000 Kurt is still my favorite though simply because he never topped that run as in terms of sports entertainment.

Again I revert back to PI, who nailed it when he mentioned Kurt winning the title in his hometown as a babyface 12 days after 9/11 being a perfect scenario. WWF could never have scripted something so perfect. But then he dropped the title back to Austin two weeks later and turned heel again. OK, that was weird, and probably bad, but the wider internet was fine with it simply because it meant Austin & Angle were now back in their "proper" roles. More stuff ensued. Of course it was good. Because this is Kurt Angle we're talking about.

But things didn't really get great again until the Edge feud in the spring of 2002. LOVED Angle making Hogan tap. Jeez. Starting to think Kurt was responsible for like 75% of my markout moments from about 2000 to JBL. Then Kurt really caught fire during the Smackdown Six era. I thought he was the best wrestler in the company world. Loved all the frenemy stuff with Benoit. They were a great pairing. Ditto for Angle/Rey. Angle/Benoit at Royal Rumble 2003 is a Top 10 match of all time in my book. Angle/Taker was yet another great pairing. So was Angle/Edge. OK, Kurt Angle had great chemistry with pretty much everybody. Because he's Kurt freaking Angle. 

You know what else was cool? When Angle would miss chair shots and the chair would ricochet off the ropes into his face. Never failed to crack me up. He sold it so great. He also took the best Stunner imo. 

And now for the one Angle convert who got away....My friend Lisa was the "hot girl" in our clique. OK, more like hottest. She was the one all the guys wanted. And I do mean ALL the guys. She was a few years younger than me and had been a wrestling fan as a young girl, even going to a few shows back in the day. Judging by her stories, her fandom peaked in 1995. Hooray! Bret had been her favorite. She also liked Hunter Hearst Helmsley because of his "gorgeous hair." She disliked Triple H because "Eww! What happened to his hair! He should let me fix it for him one day." Also, her cool Mom loved Mick Foley's book.

Anyway, Lisa went off wrestling for the most part in roughly 1996. But she'd occasionally watch it with the rest of us circa 2000-2002 if she had nothing better to do. One time she came over with her boyfriend of the month, Justin. Justin was a cool dude. Very nice. Very chill. We wanted to dislike Lisa's boyfriends for obvious reasons (2/5 of the main male members of my clique did date her. I was not one of the lucky ones. Rejected!) But the truth is most of the boyfriends were unhateable. The rest of us were watching either Raw or a PPV. I don't recall what show it was, but I do remember two related things that happened....

1. Lisa reacting to RVD- "Ooh! I love gymnastics!" My friends and I just looked each other in disbelief. "How could somebody be so ignorant!" But that quickly morphed into brutal acceptance. We ran the entire gamut of emotions within seconds. Soon coming to the bitter conclusion- "omg. she's right." Those 4 words probably should have killed RVD for us. And I imagine they would have if he wasn't the coolest dude in wrestling.

2. Justin complaining about how "messed up" it was that they turned Olympic Hero Kurt Angle into a comedic bad guy. There was no getting through to the lad. WWF's usage of Angle as a comedic heel seriously offended him.

Justin tragically passed away in a car accident about a year later. I went to his viewing with Lisa and The Gang. Haven't seen or heard from Lisa since 2006. What a shame.

Where was I? Ah. 2003. The Brock feud. Meh. I loved the Summerslam match. Yet another Angle induced markout moment. Injuries were starting to take their toll however, and Kurt spent a lot of time on the shelf. But not before making Cena at No Mercy 2003! Which I was in attendance for.

Kurt now became a litmus test. A weird anti-Angle contingent had sprung up on the internet. I had zero time for these people. Anybody who thought Angle wasn't the greatest thing since sliced bread was metaphorically dead to me. Any other opinions they had were irrelevant to me. They failed the first test!

Loved the Eddie match at Wrestlemania. Another brilliant finish. Loved the random Angle/Rey matches Smackdown would trot out every 6 months or so. LOVED the Angle/JBL alliance and wish they had done more with it. They should have been a tag team- The Wrestling God Machines- and held all the belts for 5 15 years as the ultimate Two Man Power Trip. It also still bugs me that Angle never got a 6 month+ Best In The World style title reign. Angle did his "Kurt Angle challenge" where he wrecked jobbers indie guys and that....ok? I guess? Meh. I wanted to see Kurt in "real" matches. BUT I could live with it if it meant Kurt was conserving his body for the big matches.

The PW Torch website used to do this neat yearly thing where you'd draft 10 wrestlers to start your own promotion. Angle was my #1 pick for like 5 straight years.

Loved the Michaels feud. Loved the Marty match. Loved the HBK/Angle Wrestlemania epic. Watching it in a raucous sports bar split 50/50 right down the middle only added to its greatness. I still regret not seeing the awesome Angle/Taker No Way Out 2006 match live. I ran into a member of the old Lisa Clique a few days before NWO at a bar. We made tentative plans to go. But nothing ever came of it. Oh, Angle winning the Smackdown World Championship in a Battle Royal was another HUGE markout moment. Angle had gone a long time....far too long....without winning the Big One. There was also a really cool Angle/Flair match on Raw in....2005, I think. 

A few months later tragedy struck. Angle left WWE. Not gonna lie. This was another one of the biggest tragedies in my life as a wrestling fan. I was devastated. I had heard the rumors about Angle's health and drug issues for a long time. But I guess I just didn't want to believe them. I always had Angle down as a WWE lifer. JBL had also just retired. So my 2 favorite wrestlers of the 2000s were now gone. This is where King Booker stepped up to save wrestling (for 3 more years anyway). 

I obviously followed my Olympic hero to TNA. This was the most interest I had in the company since the halcyon days of 2003. Loved his debut segment against Joe. The build for their first match was as big as it ever got for TNA. Even bigger than Jarrett/Raven! Angle/Joe I still holds their all time buyrate record. I think Angle being the first man to beat Joe was the right call. He was the biggest free agent acquisition in company history. Plus Joe got his win back the next month. I'm a high vote on the first two Joe/Angle matches.

But as was usually the case with TNA, I soon lost interest. Yes, I lost interest in Kurt freaking Angle. Shame on me. I've heard he did good things there. But I'm actually....

Over Angle. *gasp* His go-go-go style of wrestling doesn't really appeal to me anymore. Hate to say it, but Angle/Benoit, and especially Angle/Michaels are directly responsible for a lot of the annoying tropes which plague modern wrestling. That's not to say I've necessarily turned on those particular matches. They were the first of their kind. But the legions of imitators have definitely dulled their impact. I guess this does make Kurt Angle a historically significant pioneer. So, yay? But this is why I "only" had him at #6 rather than even higher.

Once again I must refer to my oft-mentioned Best WWE Matches of the 2000s list. Angle finished in the Top 5 both in number of matches and points generated. Iirc he was leading in one, the other, or both when he left the company in mid 2006. 

It's true. It's true. <-----A catchphrase I still use from time to time to this very day.

Forgot to mention I also loved @admin 's post about being afraid of Brock Lesnar. I always get a kick out of reading stories about fans being afraid of certain wrestlers when they were young. Kamala & Demolition were the two big ones for me.

Also loved @ness's bizarre story about "Angle" vs. "Rock" at his school. 

*Next batch of two will be up in an hour or so.

Kurt is honestly someone I considered doing my own "Brocktober" for. Perhaps closer to the thread Jeff tried to get going chronicling his greatest PPV matches. So I was tinkering with starting from his debut and going to 2006 and just highlighting all his best stuff.

And you have no idea how much of a HOLY SHIT moment it was to hear Kurt's theme in school like that. I think this was late 2000 or early 2001, so wrestling was still kinda popular in school. A year later it probably would've flopped harder than a magikarp outta water though.

And that moonsault he does... missed more times than the Flair dive, but damn it was a sight to see.

#13 AJ Styles
13 Votes-420 Points
High Vote: #2
Last Time: #25



#14 John Cena
12 Votes-404 Points
One #1 Vote
Last Time: #30

AJ, another guy that always seemed to have great music.

And gonna guess Cena's #1 is jTjohncenaGOAT.

Fun Fact: Deep into the voting process we had the same wrestlers in the Top 14 as last time, though the order was different. Then these two usurpers crashed the party to bump out Angle (BOO!) and Brock (Yay!).

AJ jumping up 12 spots wasn’t a huge surprise given that he’s now in the biggest, most accessible promotion in the world, but Cena’s rise was a bit of shocker. Have things become so bad that all those Cena haters of yesteryear are now longing for the days of “lol Cena wins?”

Jun 13, 2020 4:40:15 GMT Baker said:

Have things become so bad that all those Cena haters of yesteryear are now longing for the days of “lol Cena wins?”

No

Heh, I had AJ Styles at #13 on my list. Nailed it.

Jun 12, 2020 19:06:10 GMT 🤯 said:

Jun 12, 2020 3:17:02 GMT 🤯 said:

I have a draft in progress on Kurt on my work computer, so I'll skip to Brock

Who deserves a writeup sober, but maybe I'll high enough to unleash all the beauty

Where to begin?

2002
March 18
Day One
No ish
Instant. Mark. Love.

Like Psyco Sid but scarier, with legit amateur credentials. Something straight outta Streetfighter.

The push helped. And the generosity, of all those squashed so gloriously. But Brock was also clearly just a phenom talent

He had that GOAT selling even from Day One

And he's just gotten better with age
Like bleu cheese I guess?

What else is there to say
That hasn't been said?

Still can't tell if Dr. Emperor loves, or is just genius level satire. I love it either way, and totally agree. Genuinely.

But also take that love, crank it to a thousand, and apply liberally across first run as well.

My #1. Then, now, forever, always. Can do no wrong. Can even murder eat my firstborn and get a pass from me.

Really need to get back to #BROCKTOBER

OK, let's try this while sober...

#1 BROCK LESNAR
100 Votes-10,000 Points
High Vote: #1
Last Time: #1
**MY VOTE: #1**

I wonder if perhaps some Hobbit-style prequel/prologue would be helpful here?

My introduction to wrestling came via video tapes that generally lagged the current product by 1-5 years. Lacking cable and not being allowed to watch TV on weekdays, my only real-time exposure to live wrestling was WWF on Saturdays at the end of the morning cartoon block on FOX. Pretty sure Baker-man has helped me suss out that the show I'm remembering was probably just Superstars, but... who really knows. Syndication is a tricky bitch.

I remember feeling really out of the loop one summer vacation when my brash and spoiled little cousins came running up to greet me with middle fingers, cuss words, and telling me they were gonna open up cans of whoop ass on me because Stone Cold said so. I'm like... are they talking about a wrestler? When did wrestling turn into Jerry Springer? Because at the time, I was probably still wading through my 1995 WWF video tapes. I thought I wanted no part of whatever the current product was if it was anything like what my cousins were representing.

But then I got an N64, and WWF Warzone, then WWF Attitude, and eventually the THQ/AKI games. And probably just as much if not more so than video tapes, my mind was opened to and blown by a whole new wide world of colorful characters. I know had a new mission: to seek out as much real time current product by any means necessary. If I was over a friend's house and that friend had cable (regardless of whether that friend was into wrestling or not)... sneakily/casually flip over to RAW. Staying at Shoney's for the weekends dad dragged us to the racetrack? Hey, at least the motel had cable TV! RAW!!!

Stone Cold, who I'd previously written off without knowing him from Adam (because of my annoying cousins), was now all I wanted in wrestling and all I aspired to be. I ended up with a WMXIV highlights tape, and would saunter around the basement with that Stone Cold stagger for hours in excitement after rewatching him win the title. It was wanting to be Stone Cold that got me into real wrestling. I saw some flyer for the county wrestling team, thought that that's how you learn how to become Stone Cold, and so I convinced my parents to let me go out for it. Wasn't at all what I was expecting, but fuck it, it was still fun, so I stuck with it.

Then, around 2000, the stars all started to align. Still no cable until December 2000. Still no TV allowed during weekdays. But some balls were set in motion. PI3 was getting sick of the phone bills from dial-up internet, as well as the phone line being occupied whenever someone was on the internet, and we ALL hated when the internet connection would get cut by someone unknowingly picking up the phone. So the idea of broadband internet was probably the most compelling reason in PI3's mind. No cable wasn't the worst issue though, as SmackDown! was now airing on terrestrial channel UPN. And while maybe I wasn't allowed to watch during the week, I was totally allowed to tape the week's episode and get caught up first thing Saturday morning over cereal.

Eventually PI3 cracked and allowed me and my sister one show per week so long as we were getting homework and chores done. Of course, I picked SmackDown. But my idiot little sister picked Friends, which aired on the same night and time. So we'd have to trade off, with the other taping their show on the off week and catching up whenever they could. But, when I started wrestling for my school as well as the county team, practices became more regular and longer... so it ended up that I couldn't catch SmackDown "live" anyway. By the time I'd get home from practices, get showered up, eat leftover dinner, get homework/chores done, etc. it'd be like 10pm. So I feel into the habit of watching my SmackDown! tapes on Friday afternoons.

All was well... could've been better, but wasn't too shabby. In it's first full year, SmackDown! hadn't totally devolved into a RAW repeat yet. Sure, the better/cooler/more exciting stuff was still happening on RAW. And I'd get Tuesday morning recaps from Steve-o and other buddies at school, while also trying to avoid SmackDown! spoilers like the plague. I think I started venturing into the IWC around this time, but also leaned more heavily on wrestling mags and PWI Alamanacs and shit. I think I recall a couple of AIM chat rooms around wrestling that were impossible to keep up with. No idea how ANYONE could understand or follow chatrooms and that endless rapid stream of text. Honestly, probably found PW for the first time before I can even remember anymore.

Then... the hype for the six-man HIAC at Armageddon was the tipping point. That and whatever my sister and mom were ball-busting PI3 over. In conjunction with the perks of broadband internet, PI3 cracked and hooked us up to Comcast. From that point on, I was consuming RAW live as my show of the week and taping SmackDown to watch on the weekends as my clever work-around. Late 2000 through WMX7 was an epic time to become a full-on all-in real time fan. Rock was hot as hell and already headed for Hollywood... HHH was established and a cool heel ready for a face turn... Taker was back with a bad ass biker twist, Kane was on fire... Austin was returning, and there were fresh new faces in Benoit/Jericho/Kurt that showed all sorts of promise as the next batch of main event guys. The midcard was stacked with hot acts like Rikishi and Too Cool, the TLC trio and APA, Eddie & Chyna, RTC, and personal guilty pleasures like T&A. Such a great time to be alive!

And everything crescendoed with the craziest series of events come WrestleMania X-7... ECW folded, WWF bought WCW, and Austin turned heel to join forces with Vince McMahon to end the greatest wrestling show in history. It was clear in real time that it was the end of something, but it was unclear what might lay ahead. And unfortunately, despite scattered bright spots, what lay ahead was a lackluster InVasion that dragged on and convinced me beyond a shadow of doubt that WWF and probably all of pro wrestling was dead and/or at least dying a slow death. Rolling over into 2002, I was convinced it was just a matter of a few years before WWF would be out of business. WMX8 seemed like such a massive downgrade from a year prior, even despite Rock/Hogan.

But then...

The night after WMX8...

HE debuted.

=====

TO BE CONTINUED!

It was a weird time. WMX8 was in the books, and a better show than expected despite the wet church fart main event after Rock/Hogan. I think I was still convinced the WWF was dead and dying, just a matter of how long life support could sustain things. The looming brand split sounded more like a bad idea than a good idea. It was like if they didn't pull the trigger on that idea when it would've made sense in 2001 with the acquisition of WCW & ECW, how was it gonna make sense now? Especially with the bad taste of the Invasion and botched nWo debut still fresh in our mouths?

Woe was this Debbie Downer... Until this literal vanilla gorilla popped up outta nowhere on a nothing segment of RAW and absolutely WRECKED Spike Dudley, Al Snow, and maybe Maven? Spike's sell job in particular was amazing. Spike doesn't get the credit he deserves for being pro wrestling's greatest rag doll. Anyway... It was honestly more the MOVEZ!!~ that instantly hooked me on Brock than Brock himself. That repeating no-release powerbomb was a dream come true. A move I'd always assign to my CAW avatars. So in a way, seeing Brock in that moment was like seeing the perfect personification of one of my CAWs.

Heyman barking in Brock's corner was a secondary observation, but equally crucial. No one had managers at the time. So this made Brock seem special. And Paul had been Mia for long enough that I was even missing him. Last memory was his epic "pro wrestling is a dirty word" promo on Vince. 2001 made me love Paul, so I was happy to see him back and in a unique role for the time period and paired with a clearly cool new talent.

Because of the botched Hardy Boyz breakup angle in late 2001 and early 2002, I was actually kinda out on both Hardyz around this time period. So I had no issues personally with them being initial jobber fodder for Brock. I liked the approach too. Initially it was skeezo Heyman lusting after Lita that drew Matt's ire, as he stood up for his outta-his-league GF. But then Lesnar murdered Matt, so Jeff had to slot in now to stand up for his big bro and his big bro's grrrl. And Jeff is perhaps the one guy who can rival Spike as pro wrestling's most epic rag doll.

The TKO finish to Brock's PPV debut against Jeff felt so different and fresh. The match itself was interesting. Brock was clearly green and still figuring certain things out, so it felt reckless and dangerous and even real at certain points on some levels. Over the next few months it actually became a fun journey watching Brock experiment and evolve to settle on certain aspects of his in-ring game. Like how he eventually stopped using the repeat powerbombs as a finish and settled on the F5.

As Brock continued popping up and wreaking havoc on jobbers and midcard guys, I was already all-in fantasizing about his eventual world title win. At the time, I was still a silly old believer in working your way up through the ranks though. So I thought Brock should win the Hardcore Title first (since he debuted by murdering and burying that division). He had already no-sold a chair shot to the head by this point, I think... So my idea was he didn't need weapons and wasn't affected by them. His hands were his weapons. And they were legit lethal.

The idea would be after holding the Hardcore Championship hostage for so long, and with Heyman as his manager, Brock would start targeting IC Champ RVD. Premise being Heyman hating RVD for turning his back on him and ECW after all Heyman and ECW had done for RVD. Feud would've seen Brock murder Team Xtreme, Bubba Dudley, Spike Dudley, Tommy Dreamer, and any other relevant ECW alumni en route to his clash with RVD. Everything would've dovetailed in with Brock beating RVD in the finals to become 2002 KOTR. Then, the rematch at Vengeance sees Brock win the IC belt.

Instead of pushing him to the world title at SummerSlam, I was still envisioning a slow burn but via an absurd push wherein Brock the Belt Collector was acquiring all the other hardware. As Hardcore and IC Champ, he'd squash whoever to pick up the European belt on a RAW. Then, he'd singlehandedly beat Hogan & Edge (thanks to some Un-American interference perhaps) to win the tag belts. He'd be forced to pick a partner or else vacate the tag belts... So Heyman picks some jobber ad the sacrificial lamb to be slaughtered for inevitably costing Brock the tag belts in a defense where Brock doesn't care enough to show up.

I think in this world I was just envisioning Rock/Hogan II for the title as the SummerSlam main event.

Anyway... Fast forward to Brock winning the 2003 Royal Rumble to go on to FINALLY win his first world title the PROPER way in the main event of WrestleMania XIX.

So glad it didn't happen the way I envisioned. Reality was so much better. The rapid rise was so jarring but fit Brock's physical dominance in the ring so well. Despite all my various fan fic ideas for alternative ascents, I was all-in with the SummerSlam title win. WWF might've been dead, but there was renewed hope after all for WWE with Brock at the helm as world champion.

Next installment will be about Brock turning SmackDown! into the A Show for the only time in its entire history.

See ya next time on...

BROCK... IS... WRESTLING!!!

One of my favorite runs.

I had AJ Styles at Number 6 and John Cena at 15 on my list.

I'm not going to go too much into Cena, but I'm a big fan of the guy.  I think he's a good person who does more than any of us know and he worked his absolute ass off.  Sure he's not the greatest in the ring but he is capable and also capable of great matches when he's given something or someone great to work with.  Give Cena something to work with, and it can be magic. 

AJ Styles.  I'm very, very late to the Styles party.  I'm not that familiar with his Japan or TNA work (mostly because I couldn't abide watching TNA and didn't really have access to the Japan stuff) but I do remember watching a couple of TNA matches because I was curious about who everyone was going on about, and I was impressed with what I saw.  Safe to say I'm completely aboard the AJ train now.  I think he's one of the best to ever step in the ring, he is exactly my kind of wrestler - charismatic, technically great and so much fun to watch.  I do believe AJ is one of the best wrestlers working today and he still has a lot left in him, selfishly I'm glad he decided to come to WWE, mostly because I've been given the privilege of watching him work for the last couple of years, and I wish I'd been able to sooner.

I had Cena at 51 on my list. He was 50 until Baker noticed I had doubled up on a number so he was bumped. :lol:

Jun 13, 2020 16:21:16 GMT 🤯 said:

Jun 12, 2020 19:06:10 GMT 🤯 said:

OK, let's try this while sober...

#1 BROCK LESNAR
100 Votes-10,000 Points
High Vote: #1
Last Time: #1
**MY VOTE: #1**

I wonder if perhaps some Hobbit-style prequel/prologue would be helpful here?

My introduction to wrestling came via video tapes that generally lagged the current product by 1-5 years. Lacking cable and not being allowed to watch TV on weekdays, my only real-time exposure to live wrestling was WWF on Saturdays at the end of the morning cartoon block on FOX. Pretty sure Baker-man has helped me suss out that the show I'm remembering was probably just Superstars, but... who really knows. Syndication is a tricky bitch.

I remember feeling really out of the loop one summer vacation when my brash and spoiled little cousins came running up to greet me with middle fingers, cuss words, and telling me they were gonna open up cans of whoop ass on me because Stone Cold said so. I'm like... are they talking about a wrestler? When did wrestling turn into Jerry Springer? Because at the time, I was probably still wading through my 1995 WWF video tapes. I thought I wanted no part of whatever the current product was if it was anything like what my cousins were representing.

But then I got an N64, and WWF Warzone, then WWF Attitude, and eventually the THQ/AKI games. And probably just as much if not more so than video tapes, my mind was opened to and blown by a whole new wide world of colorful characters. I know had a new mission: to seek out as much real time current product by any means necessary. If I was over a friend's house and that friend had cable (regardless of whether that friend was into wrestling or not)... sneakily/casually flip over to RAW. Staying at Shoney's for the weekends dad dragged us to the racetrack? Hey, at least the motel had cable TV! RAW!!!

Stone Cold, who I'd previously written off without knowing him from Adam (because of my annoying cousins), was now all I wanted in wrestling and all I aspired to be. I ended up with a WMXIV highlights tape, and would saunter around the basement with that Stone Cold stagger for hours in excitement after rewatching him win the title. It was wanting to be Stone Cold that got me into real wrestling. I saw some flyer for the county wrestling team, thought that that's how you learn how to become Stone Cold, and so I convinced my parents to let me go out for it. Wasn't at all what I was expecting, but fuck it, it was still fun, so I stuck with it.

Then, around 2000, the stars all started to align. Still no cable until December 2000. Still no TV allowed during weekdays. But some balls were set in motion. PI3 was getting sick of the phone bills from dial-up internet, as well as the phone line being occupied whenever someone was on the internet, and we ALL hated when the internet connection would get cut by someone unknowingly picking up the phone. So the idea of broadband internet was probably the most compelling reason in PI3's mind. No cable wasn't the worst issue though, as SmackDown! was now airing on terrestrial channel UPN. And while maybe I wasn't allowed to watch during the week, I was totally allowed to tape the week's episode and get caught up first thing Saturday morning over cereal.

Eventually PI3 cracked and allowed me and my sister one show per week so long as we were getting homework and chores done. Of course, I picked SmackDown. But my idiot little sister picked Friends, which aired on the same night and time. So we'd have to trade off, with the other taping their show on the off week and catching up whenever they could. But, when I started wrestling for my school as well as the county team, practices became more regular and longer... so it ended up that I couldn't catch SmackDown "live" anyway. By the time I'd get home from practices, get showered up, eat leftover dinner, get homework/chores done, etc. it'd be like 10pm. So I feel into the habit of watching my SmackDown! tapes on Friday afternoons.

All was well... could've been better, but wasn't too shabby. In it's first full year, SmackDown! hadn't totally devolved into a RAW repeat yet. Sure, the better/cooler/more exciting stuff was still happening on RAW. And I'd get Tuesday morning recaps from Steve-o and other buddies at school, while also trying to avoid SmackDown! spoilers like the plague. I think I started venturing into the IWC around this time, but also leaned more heavily on wrestling mags and PWI Alamanacs and shit. I think I recall a couple of AIM chat rooms around wrestling that were impossible to keep up with. No idea how ANYONE could understand or follow chatrooms and that endless rapid stream of text. Honestly, probably found PW for the first time before I can even remember anymore.

Then... the hype for the six-man HIAC at Armageddon was the tipping point. That and whatever my sister and mom were ball-busting PI3 over. In conjunction with the perks of broadband internet, PI3 cracked and hooked us up to Comcast. From that point on, I was consuming RAW live as my show of the week and taping SmackDown to watch on the weekends as my clever work-around. Late 2000 through WMX7 was an epic time to become a full-on all-in real time fan. Rock was hot as hell and already headed for Hollywood... HHH was established and a cool heel ready for a face turn... Taker was back with a bad ass biker twist, Kane was on fire... Austin was returning, and there were fresh new faces in Benoit/Jericho/Kurt that showed all sorts of promise as the next batch of main event guys. The midcard was stacked with hot acts like Rikishi and Too Cool, the TLC trio and APA, Eddie & Chyna, RTC, and personal guilty pleasures like T&A. Such a great time to be alive!

And everything crescendoed with the craziest series of events come WrestleMania X-7... ECW folded, WWF bought WCW, and Austin turned heel to join forces with Vince McMahon to end the greatest wrestling show in history. It was clear in real time that it was the end of something, but it was unclear what might lay ahead. And unfortunately, despite scattered bright spots, what lay ahead was a lackluster InVasion that dragged on and convinced me beyond a shadow of doubt that WWF and probably all of pro wrestling was dead and/or at least dying a slow death. Rolling over into 2002, I was convinced it was just a matter of a few years before WWF would be out of business. WMX8 seemed like such a massive downgrade from a year prior, even despite Rock/Hogan.

But then...

The night after WMX8...

HE debuted.

=====

TO BE CONTINUED!

It was a weird time. WMX8 was in the books, and a better show than expected despite the wet church fart main event after Rock/Hogan. I think I was still convinced the WWF was dead and dying, just a matter of how long life support could sustain things. The looming brand split sounded more like a bad idea than a good idea. It was like if they didn't pull the trigger on that idea when it would've made sense in 2001 with the acquisition of WCW & ECW, how was it gonna make sense now? Especially with the bad taste of the Invasion and botched nWo debut still fresh in our mouths?

Woe was this Debbie Downer... Until this literal vanilla gorilla popped up outta nowhere on a nothing segment of RAW and absolutely WRECKED Spike Dudley, Al Snow, and maybe Maven? Spike's sell job in particular was amazing. Spike doesn't get the credit he deserves for being pro wrestling's greatest rag doll. Anyway... It was honestly more the MOVEZ!!~ that instantly hooked me on Brock than Brock himself. That repeating no-release powerbomb was a dream come true. A move I'd always assign to my CAW avatars. So in a way, seeing Brock in that moment was like seeing the perfect personification of one of my CAWs.

Heyman barking in Brock's corner was a secondary observation, but equally crucial. No one had managers at the time. So this made Brock seem special. And Paul had been Mia for long enough that I was even missing him. Last memory was his epic "pro wrestling is a dirty word" promo on Vince. 2001 made me love Paul, so I was happy to see him back and in a unique role for the time period and paired with a clearly cool new talent.

Because of the botched Hardy Boyz breakup angle in late 2001 and early 2002, I was actually kinda out on both Hardyz around this time period. So I had no issues personally with them being initial jobber fodder for Brock. I liked the approach too. Initially it was skeezo Heyman lusting after Lita that drew Matt's ire, as he stood up for his outta-his-league GF. But then Lesnar murdered Matt, so Jeff had to slot in now to stand up for his big bro and his big bro's grrrl. And Jeff is perhaps the one guy who can rival Spike as pro wrestling's most epic rag doll.

The TKO finish to Brock's PPV debut against Jeff felt so different and fresh. The match itself was interesting. Brock was clearly green and still figuring certain things out, so it felt reckless and dangerous and even real at certain points on some levels. Over the next few months it actually became a fun journey watching Brock experiment and evolve to settle on certain aspects of his in-ring game. Like how he eventually stopped using the repeat powerbombs as a finish and settled on the F5.

As Brock continued popping up and wreaking havoc on jobbers and midcard guys, I was already all-in fantasizing about his eventual world title win. At the time, I was still a silly old believer in working your way up through the ranks though. So I thought Brock should win the Hardcore Title first (since he debuted by murdering and burying that division). He had already no-sold a chair shot to the head by this point, I think... So my idea was he didn't need weapons and wasn't affected by them. His hands were his weapons. And they were legit lethal.

The idea would be after holding the Hardcore Championship hostage for so long, and with Heyman as his manager, Brock would start targeting IC Champ RVD. Premise being Heyman hating RVD for turning his back on him and ECW after all Heyman and ECW had done for RVD. Feud would've seen Brock murder Team Xtreme, Bubba Dudley, Spike Dudley, Tommy Dreamer, and any other relevant ECW alumni en route to his clash with RVD. Everything would've dovetailed in with Brock beating RVD in the finals to become 2002 KOTR. Then, the rematch at Vengeance sees Brock win the IC belt.

Instead of pushing him to the world title at SummerSlam, I was still envisioning a slow burn but via an absurd push wherein Brock the Belt Collector was acquiring all the other hardware. As Hardcore and IC Champ, he'd squash whoever to pick up the European belt on a RAW. Then, he'd singlehandedly beat Hogan & Edge (thanks to some Un-American interference perhaps) to win the tag belts. He'd be forced to pick a partner or else vacate the tag belts... So Heyman picks some jobber ad the sacrificial lamb to be slaughtered for inevitably costing Brock the tag belts in a defense where Brock doesn't care enough to show up.

I think in this world I was just envisioning Rock/Hogan II for the title as the SummerSlam main event.

Anyway... Fast forward to Brock winning the 2003 Royal Rumble to go on to FINALLY win his first world title the PROPER way in the main event of WrestleMania XIX.

So glad it didn't happen the way I envisioned. Reality was so much better. The rapid rise was so jarring but fit Brock's physical dominance in the ring so well. Despite all my various fan fic ideas for alternative ascents, I was all-in with the SummerSlam title win. WWF might've been dead, but there was renewed hope after all for WWE with Brock at the helm as world champion.

Next installment will be about Brock turning SmackDown! into the A Show for the only time in its entire history.

See ya next time on...

BROCK... IS... WRESTLING!!!

It became very clear very quickly through the summer of 2002. Brock was MY man in pro wrestling. Other wrestlers were helping to make the choice pretty easy too. Rock's Hollywood career was calling louder and louder, so he was gone more often than not. Austin finally took his ball and went home after months of bad to bland-at-best booking. The nostalgia of Hogan was cool, but he literally couldn't move in the ring... so the excitement was mostly limited to before the bell rang whenever he was around. Y2J had been jobbed out. Benoit was out injured. Eddie had been suspended/MIA so long that he was a total afterthought. Booker was still severely tainted by playing second fiddle throughout the botched InVasion. RVD had faired a bit better than Booker, but was still clearly victim to a glass ceiling. The nWo fizzled out like a wet fart. HHH had fizzled out just as hard after his MSG return pop. HBK returned with the worst haircut of all-time, and his in-ring return was still doubtful. Kurt and Taker were solid constants, but both seemed to be kinda slumming it too...

Some interesting things were shaking out on the undercard thanks to the draft/brand split and consequent growing pains, but nothing was as interesting or consistent as Brock and his push. So, honestly, WWE put blinders on in a way that made it easy to focus. And it clicked. It worked. Brock gave me someone/something to aspire to be in my REAL wrestling career.

I'd just logged my first full year of high school wrestling by the time Brock debuted. My freshman year was a bumpy-ish transition. There was a huge step-up in the challenge going from middle school and county wrestling to high school wrestling. There were even huge jumps between the freshman, JV, and varsity tiers. The rude awakening was jarring and hard to adjust to. So Brock provided that inspiration at a critical juncture.

Our team had to go to a camp together at the Naval Academy the summer after my freshman year to continue training in the off-season. It was miserable. Pretty sure the only way I got through it was cosplaying as Brock. He was big, pale, blonde, and good at both REAL and PRO wrestling. And while I wasn't big (or as big as I want to be... a lifelong problem) or pro wrestling, I was at least pale and blonde and real wrestling! So, as Meat Loaf would say... Three outta five ain't bad!

And then Brock becoming exclusive to SmackDown! as well as the birth of the SD!6 as the GOAT supporting cast were the perfect things to usher me through the start of my sophomore season. If I had a hard practice or a disappointing outing a wrestling meet, I would just watch Brock's latest feat of strength or him conquering some opponent... and my motivation would be re-inspired. If nothing else, it would at least be a joyous distraction.

Something else to remember about 2002 was how much WWE was hot-potatoing the world title belt around. It was sooo annoying to me in real time! Y2J starts the year as champ for 3 months... hands it to HHH for a month, who hands it to Hogan for a month, who hands it to Taker for a month... Taker has what feels like a LONG run when he holds the belt for TWO months before handing it to a returning Rock, who hands it to Brock a month later... so I was hoping/praying that my man Brock would restore some "legitimacy" to the world title by holding it for the remainder of the year (and hopefully forever) but I'd been so far conditioned to brace for otherwise.

When his first feud as champ is against former champ Taker, I got nervous. Brock chased off Austin without ever wrestling him, so that doesn't count. Then he beat Flair on a RAW, but Flair was an old fogey who spent just as much time in a non-wrestling role as a wrestling role. So that didn't really count. Brock had his impressive feats of strength against Mark Henry and Rikishi, but those guys were ultimately jobbers... so they didn't really count. He beat RVD for the 2002 KOTR crown, but RVD was clearly trending downward... so that wasn't much of an accolade. While his murdering of Hulkamania was huge symbolically, Hogan was on a J.O.B. World Tour... so even that didn't really mean much. And Rock was a temporary title holder if we ever saw one. So even beating Rock didn't count THAT much. So it was like Brock's buildup to his title win and his title reign were built on a shaky foundation. And given the title history so far in 2002, track record didn't indicate I should brace for a long reign.

So when his first title defense against Taker went to a no contest, I was happy but nervous. WWE isn't ready to end the Brock experiment just yet, but there's no way they're jobbing Taker out to him. Not this soon. I was convinced. My school buds were convinced. Then the HIAC rematch was booked. And we were ALL convinced. My anti-Brock buds were ecstatic. Eager to see Brock finally get served inside Taker's hellacious playground. And then the unthinkable happened. Brock retained. In one of the greatest HIAC matches of all-time. One that didn't require crazy dives or falls off the cage. It was fucking AWESOME. I wanted to rub that victory into my anti-Brock buds' faces so bad the following Monday. But something weird happened. They were suddenly fans of Brock. He'd earned their respect with his gutsy performance. And I guess WWE picked up on this overall wave... as they started to turn Brock face. NOOOO!!!

I was still 1000% on board the Brock train with him turning face, but this was the start of WWE ruining good organic things by forcing the face turn. It started off OK enough. I was totally accepting of the re-branded Big Show as Brock's next challenger, and Brock's initial face transition was gradual enough. He was just an unintimidated bad ass willing to go toe-to-toe with the big nasty bastard. Honestly, Brock's face run wouldn't get really meh until post-Surivor Series. But fucking Survivor Series... c'mon, man!

Between SummerSlam 2002 and Royal Rumble 2003, I didn't order any PPVs myself. But try-hard John G ordered every PPV. He was a rich kid who was mostly aloof on all things cool and fun, but definitely wanted to fit in with us "common kids" -- so he thought his in was being the PPV orderer and reporter. I don't know why it never dawned on him to invite us over if he was ordering the PPVs, but whatever. I remember the reports that Monday morning about how Brock wasn't champion anymore. How Big Show beat him. But the consolation prize was at least Brock hit the F5 on Big Show. But fuck that consolation prize. I was in disbelief. I thought John G was trying to get one over on gullible me. Fuck that news. Fuck that noise. No way this could be true.

But then, sure enough, it was. What the fuck!? Back to hot-potatoing the world title in 2002. And as much as I dug the re-branded Big Show... HIM as world champion!? WHAT!? HUH!? I understand why WWE had to split Heyman away from Brock if they wanted to go with Brock as a face, but Heyman screwing Brock (at Survivor Series especially) felt so contrived. Around this time, Brock had a shoot rib injury too, which I think kept him off the December PPV card where we got out last hot potato of the world title for the year with Big Show dropping the belt to Kurt Angle. While I was happy that this assured we'd be getting the Brock/Kurt dream match for the belt in the main event of WMXIX, I was in real time (and still in hindsight) so displeased with the random path there.

I'm convinced Brock is enough of a monster he could've worked, or at least been booked smartly, through the broken rib challenge. He should've kept the title belt around his waist from SummerSlam 2002 through WMXIX. No one will ever be able to convince me otherwise. If you want to turn Brock face, the Heyman sabotage means more on a WrestleMania stage. I dunno, man... Here's roughly what I envision whenever working through revisionist history ideas:

If I'm forced to turn Brock face:

SummerSlam 2002:
Brock beats Rock for the belt; becomes exclusive to SmackDown!; Taker chases Brock to the Blue Brand to challenge him for the title.

Unforgiven 2002:
Brock and Taker fight to a wild no contest; unfinished business leads to escalating tensions; Steph books a rematch inside HIAC to settle things.

No Mercy 2002:
Brock beats Taker to retain in perhaps the GOAT HIAC; Brock earns so much street cred, he starts winning over more fans. On the following SmackDown!, Taker comes out to cut a promo. He teases retirement, but ultimately he wants to call Brock out to shake his hand in sign of respect. Instead, re-branded Big Show comes out and chokeslams Taker off the stage. Cue Brock, who comes out to stand up on behalf of his greatest adversary to date. Sets up Brock/Show for Survivor Series.

Survivor Series 2002:
Show beats Brock via DQ when a returning-from-injury Taker attacks Show... paying back the favor by chokeslamming Show off something high, perhaps. Brock continues gradually evolving as a face, talking over Heyman and challenging Show to a rematch to settle things -- despite Heyman urging otherwise. Brock also takes a shot at Taker, saying if Taker is all about respect then what was he doing interfering? Heyman tries to convince Brock to chill and not poke the bear, but Brock ain't listening. It all leads to a triple threat at Armageddon 2002: Brock defending against Taker and Show.

Armageddon 2002:
Triple threat to help protect Brock's broken rib. Evidence from 2003 suggests this would be a much more entertaining match than you'd otherwise assume. Show steals the title by pinning Taker to win Brock's belt. Fuck me, I struggle to keep the belt on Brock in a face turn scenario. Anyway... Heyman turns here, spurred by Brock refusing to heed all his managerial advice leading into this show.

Royal Rumble 2003:
Brock beats Show 1-on-1 to win his title back. To cement his status as a face, he plants Show with an F5 and follows with a successful SSP to win. Minds blown! A bitter Show vents his frustration by interfering the Rumble later and screwing Taker, perhaps after some backstage interaction. Kurt is the Rumble runner-up, last eliminated by winner HBK.

No Way Out 2003:
We get Benoit/Angle RR2003 a month delayed as the final of a tournament to determine Brock's challenger at WrestleMania XIX. We get a Brock/Show rubber match, with Taker interfering as payback for Show screwing him outta the Rumble.

WrestleMania XIX:
Taker beats Show on the undercard to settle their months-long issue, and Brock/Kurt I is hopefully some greater classic than the real match. Brock/Kurt here is a face vs. face affair... or rather, a closer representation of "real wrestling" where it's just two athletes going at it, doing their best to prove who's the better man. A very experimental style for WWE. Maybe Kurt winning here with a flash small package prompts Brock to turn back heel, with a post-match attack that gives Kurt an excuse to go MIA for neck surgery.

If I'm able to keep Brock heel:

SummerSlam 2002:
Brock beats Rock for the belt; becomes exclusive to SmackDown!; Taker chases Brock to the Blue Brand to challenge him for the title.

Unforgiven 2002:
Brock and Taker fight to a wild no contest; unfinished business leads to escalating tensions; Steph books a rematch inside HIAC to settle things.

No Mercy 2002:
Brock beats Taker to retain in perhaps the GOAT HIAC; Brock earns so much street cred, he starts winning over more fans. On the following SmackDown!, Taker comes out to cut a promo. He teases retirement, but ultimately he wants to call Brock out to shake his hand in sign of respect. Brock comes out, Taker extends his hand, Brock just stares at it for a long moment like a confused vanilla gorilla... eventually Brock reaches out, takes Taker's hand, starts slowly shaking it, while fans cheer. BUT THEN... Brock yanks an unsuspecting Taker in, and F5s him. Big beaming smirk on Brock's troll face. Heyman jumps up and down, giddy. Heyman cuts a promo on how Brock respects NO MAN, blah blah blah. Hopefully restoring Brock's heel heat.

Insert Edge as the next plucky face title challenger. Edge seemed to have the character, personality, mic chops, charisma, momentum, etc. to be a perfect foil for Brock at this time -- at least in so far as keeping Brock heel. Instead of the the handicap match that Rebellion got, just run a straight-up 1-on-1 pitting Edge against Brock at Survivor Series.

Survivor Series 2002:
Edge puts up the gutsiest performance of his life, only to come up short against unstoppable Brock. Edge is MADE in the same way Austin was made by Bret.

Maybe in this timeline, Brock doesn't suffer a broken rib because he isn't working Big Show. But let's just assume Brock is injured, so we have to be careful with him heading into Armageddon. Rey needed time off in real life because of an injured knee. So maybe we slot Rey in for one last main event pay day, with Rey standing up for his tag team partner BFF Edge, to take on (i.e., get MURDERED by) Brock in a quick one at Armageddon.

Armageddon 2002:
Merciless Brock MURDERS Rey to retain. Brock's rib isn't impacted at all by tossing around Rey's 100-lb. frame. Rey takes some time off to get his knee scoped. Brock now seems like a bully, as his opponents' physical statures have been trending downward. Insert re-branded Big Show, potentially as a bad ass face, daring Brock to take on someone his own size... or bigger?

Royal Rumble 2003:
Brock retains against Big Show in their first encounter happening here, but with Brock as heel and Show as face and no Heyman sabotage. Let's mix the Rumble up a bit. Let's say HBK is WHC holder on RAW's side, defending against Y2J here... and HHH, with Evolution assistance, last eliminates Taker to win the 2003 Rumble.

No Way Out 2003:
We still get Benoit/Angle RR2003 a month delayed as the final of a tournament to determine Brock's challenger at WrestleMania XIX. Instead of Rock/Hogan II, we go with Brock/Hogan II for the title. A returning Rock is special guest referee given the magnitude of the match, and his ties to both competitors. Rock reveals his heel disposition by fucking Hogan to potentially set up Rock/Hogan II as an option for WMXIX.

WrestleMania XIX:
Shoot stories slip regarding Kurt's health status and bad neck. So, despite his Olympic gold medal, he's headed into the Brock match as the sympathetic underdog. I'm still thinking flash small package counter to a second or third F5 to win the title, with a Brock snap post-match to kill off Angle. Angle goes off for surgery, Brock beats Cena at Backlash to reclaim the vacant title, and Angle eventually returns as the undefeated champion (and only man to pin Brock so far) with a rightful claim to a title shot.

Anyway... IT IS WHAT IT IS.

Next time on BROCK... IS... WRESTLING we'll dive into 2003, what was awesome about it, what could've been better, etc. LATER!