I do not mind people having faith, but when you blame the devil for things, or claim a divine mandate, then I have issues. And yeah that Hillsong crap was where I learned about how crazy he is.

May 22, 2022 0:50:53 GMT c said:

I do not mind people having faith, but when you blame the devil for things, or claim a divine mandate, then I have issues. And yeah that Hillsong crap was where I learned about how crazy he is.

He's not in Hillsong despite how many times the media repeats it.
He is a Pentecostal, I was raised in a Pentecostal church, it's not much different in doctrine to most Christian denominations.

Morrison is an appalling communicator and in the end didn't really stand for anything.
But the Liberal and Labor vote went down this election, so the prevailing sentiment is a lack of enthusiasm for either option.

In America, Pentecostalism revels in prosperity gospel with the Trinity Broadcasting Network being a multimillion dollar industry. They are the faith healers of the US. And their gospel is VERY different than most other denominations to the point of being heretical to mainstream Protestantism until Evangelicalism themselves realized how much cash could be had and essentially turned prosperity gospel into the mainstream.

May 22, 2022 13:36:59 GMT c said:

In America, Pentecostalism revels in prosperity gospel with the Trinity Broadcasting Network being a multimillion dollar industry. They are the faith healers of the US. And their gospel is VERY different than most other denominations to the point of being heretical to mainstream Protestantism until Evangelicalism themselves realized how much cash could be had and essentially turned prosperity gospel into the mainstream.

Prosperity preaching is heretical and some Pentecostal churches do prosperity preaching (like Hillsong) but many non Pentecostal churches are also sham churches peddling life coaching under the banner of Christianity.

I would shy away from the label of Pentecostal today, but I don't think it automatically implies heresy despite the baggage the term carries

Reading about religion in other countries feels like most of American Christianity has become heretical. We preach Trump as a divine savior akin to Jesus and that prosperity crap is insane. I mean I get Christians collecting tithe in the old days to build the great Cathedrals, but these days it is all about the pastor's private jet and mansion. But this shit is why we have so many schisms. In the US most major denominations are seeing liberal splits, where you come to church and you talk about faith and that is it. No threats of hellfire, tithes are optional donations that go to running the church strictly, absolutely no politics and no judgement from the priests. The way they see it, is if you are gay, trans, etc, God may see it as a strict but is between you and him and not for the priests to judge. Really strange that this is considered radical though, while preaching Trump is essentially a second Messiah is considered normal.

In the US the life coaching is not actually linked to Christianity at all. Rehab still is, which is why people claim AA is a cult since it is run by the same churches that think Trump is a divine figure, but over all life coaching took over New Age stuff.

Now get this deal. Two of my old Coven from my Wicca days are now life coaches. They charge $50 for a tarot charge reading that goes about 30 minutes, then offer to solve people problems as a life / spirit coach. They meet with people twice a week for a half hour on zoom, and chat using basic psychology, cold reading, accountability stuff and a bit of Wicca mindfulness. Each session costs 50 bucks. They basically each have on average 5 clients at a time and are pulling 400 to 500 a week for 10 hours of work. They average about 4 to 5 tarot readings a month as well, so looking at 45 hours a month to make 27k a year. They are stay at home moms pulling in the median income. They could go bigger but they are strictly word of mouth since it is all tax free income. And one of our "priests" went to jail for tax evasion (she was told by Diana she did not need to pay taxes) so no one trying to make it big right now either.

I so wish I did not have the ethics I have around this shit, or so would get in on this.

c, just like 'wellness mummies'

Former pinger-rats selling snake oil figuratively, to get you to buy essential oils literally. #blessed

Looks like labor is going to investigate Murdoch's influence of the media. Can't wait for Tucker to claim we need to liberate your country again.

May 22, 2022 18:02:27 GMT c said:

Reading about religion in other countries feels like most of American Christianity has become heretical. We preach Trump as a divine savior akin to Jesus and that prosperity crap is insane. I mean I get Christians collecting tithe in the old days to build the great Cathedrals, but these days it is all about the pastor's private jet and mansion. But this shit is why we have so many schisms. In the US most major denominations are seeing liberal splits, where you come to church and you talk about faith and that is it. No threats of hellfire, tithes are optional donations that go to running the church strictly, absolutely no politics and no judgement from the priests. The way they see it, is if you are gay, trans, etc, God may see it as a strict but is between you and him and not for the priests to judge. Really strange that this is considered radical though, while preaching Trump is essentially a second Messiah is considered normal.

In the US the life coaching is not actually linked to Christianity at all. Rehab still is, which is why people claim AA is a cult since it is run by the same churches that think Trump is a divine figure, but over all life coaching took over New Age stuff.

Now get this deal. Two of my old Coven from my Wicca days are now life coaches. They charge $50 for a tarot charge reading that goes about 30 minutes, then offer to solve people problems as a life / spirit coach. They meet with people twice a week for a half hour on zoom, and chat using basic psychology, cold reading, accountability stuff and a bit of Wicca mindfulness. Each session costs 50 bucks. They basically each have on average 5 clients at a time and are pulling 400 to 500 a week for 10 hours of work. They average about 4 to 5 tarot readings a month as well, so looking at 45 hours a month to make 27k a year. They are stay at home moms pulling in the median income. They could go bigger but they are strictly word of mouth since it is all tax free income. And one of our "priests" went to jail for tax evasion (she was told by Diana she did not need to pay taxes) so no one trying to make it big right now either.

I so wish I did not have the ethics I have around this shit, or so would get in on this.

The life coaching bit deserves it's own thread, but some of the so-called Christian preachers don't actual preach any Christianiaty at all, Joel Olsteen is about the worst for this.
On a lot of issues I am ready to admit when things aren't in my wheel house, Christianity kind of is.
I think you are conflating all churches with mega churches, I know in lots of countries the majority of Christians are simple believers attending their local church to practice their faith.
Yes, there are some loopy pentecostal and evangelical churches, but they're not the norm.
The Rock concert mega-churches are growing, but by no measure do they account for the majority of Christians.

In the US rural churches are even worse than the megachurches. And in this style of Christianity is the dominant style here. I mean look at the fight between US Catholics and the Vatican, the current self-destruction of the Southern Baptist Convention, the Methodist church split, and the schism in the Evangelical church forming now for examples of how America has its own take on the dominations.

And what we really are seeing when you scale out far enough is the birth of a new branch of Christianity with a truly American Church with its own sets of core beliefs that is getting ready to break free and unify into their own thing with the divinity of America being one of the core tenets.

May 23, 2022 5:23:30 GMT c said:

In the US rural churches are even worse than the megachurches. And in this style of Christianity is the dominant style here. I mean look at the fight between US Catholics and the Vatican, the current self-destruction of the Southern Baptist Convention, the Methodist church split, and the schism in the Evangelical church forming now for examples of how America has its own take on the dominations.

And what we really are seeing when you scale out far enough is the birth of a new branch of Christianity with a truly American Church with its own sets of core beliefs that is getting ready to break free and unify into their own thing with the divinity of America being one of the core tenets.

No, the cases you refer to are the minority, crazy evangelical churches are only a small part of "Christianity".

The coalition is having a fucking laugh if they really think the answer to their problems is to push further to the right. They were voted out because of inaction on climate, women's issues and integrity, and unanimously rejected in Victoria and WA because of their decision to alienate and attack popular state premiers.

There was a clear path to success by the Teal independents and Greens who appealed to a sense of community in their electorates. That tactic clearly works regardless of political leaning, shown by Dai Le beating Kristina Keneally. I think we've over simplified things by saying "people aren't engaged in politics", when in reality people aren't engaged because they don't feel represented or acknowledged by those who were supposed to be representing them.

With the US style media moving over there they will def move further to the right. That is the goal of Murdoch and crew. They are propagandists that want a hard right society there so as America goes more liberal they can recreate their vision of America in Australia.  For some unknown reason our right believes Australia is a libertarian utopia if only a few laws will change (like gun control).

May 25, 2022 0:21:43 GMT c said:

With the US style media moving over there they will def move further to the right. That is the goal of Murdoch and crew. They are propagandists that want a hard right society there so as America goes more liberal they can recreate their vision of America in Australia.  For some unknown reason our right believes Australia is a libertarian utopia if only a few laws will change (like gun control).

It won't work here. The News Corp tabloids were running nonstop front page attacks on Albanese all campaign, and Clive Palmer spent $100 million on advertising to get less votes than a micro legalise pot party. 

May 25, 2022 0:49:18 GMT @admin said:

May 25, 2022 0:21:43 GMT c said:

With the US style media moving over there they will def move further to the right. That is the goal of Murdoch and crew. They are propagandists that want a hard right society there so as America goes more liberal they can recreate their vision of America in Australia.  For some unknown reason our right believes Australia is a libertarian utopia if only a few laws will change (like gun control).

It won't work here. The News Corp tabloids were running nonstop front page attacks on Albanese all campaign, and Clive Palmer spent $100 million on advertising to get less votes than a micro legalise pot party. 

The role of money in this election can't be ignored though.
The Teals learnt that targeting 6 seats with 100 million dollars is better than targeting them all with the same budget.

I also don't think the media here is going to lurch to the right.
With the exception of Sky, nearly all the broadcast news and websites are wholly left leaning.
This is one of the reasons for the results.

I may even strangle the next person I hear say "We need meaningful action on climate change" without articulating what they mean by those empty words.
With the end result, I much prefer the Labor party governing in its own right, rather than a bastardised coalition of insane lefty cross benchers.
Next challenge for the new government is what the Senate looks like, they absolutely don't want to be held hostage to a Greens agenda.

May 25, 2022 1:40:47 GMT iNCY said:

May 25, 2022 0:49:18 GMT @admin said:

It won't work here. The News Corp tabloids were running nonstop front page attacks on Albanese all campaign, and Clive Palmer spent $100 million on advertising to get less votes than a micro legalise pot party. 

The role of money in this election can't be ignored though.
The Teals learnt that targeting 6 seats with 100 million dollars is better than targeting them all with the same budget.

Oh absolutely, that is exactly what I was talking about connecting with voters. I think we got an overwhelming indication that Australians are sick of platitudes and being taken for granted, and there's no such thing as "safe seats" anymore. The teals used their money to put boots on the ground and convince people face to face that they could/would actually be represented by their MP. The Libs that lost their seats were far too arrogant and chose to fight petty battles over the opponent's signs instead of engaging on issues that actually matter to people in 2022.

May 25, 2022 1:55:08 GMT @admin said:

May 25, 2022 1:40:47 GMT iNCY said:

The role of money in this election can't be ignored though.
The Teals learnt that targeting 6 seats with 100 million dollars is better than targeting them all with the same budget.

Oh absolutely, that is exactly what I was talking about connecting with voters. I think we got an overwhelming indication that Australians are sick of platitudes and being taken for granted, and there's no such thing as "safe seats" anymore. The teals used their money to put boots on the ground and convince people face to face that they could/would actually be represented by their MP. The Libs that lost their seats were far too arrogant and chose to fight petty battles over the opponent's signs instead of engaging on issues that actually matter to people in 2022.

I get your sentiment, but it is hard to agree.
What did the Teal independents actually offer but platitudes?

As a society we act as if a Facebook status is making real change and people vote for a Teal independent and feel like they're doing their bit for climate change.
I would hazard a guess that the area of Kooyong has the highest concentration of luxury diesel SUV's in the state.

The problem is the lack of conviction.
The Liberals tried to say that they had a net zero target without articulating it, so they removed a key difference between them and Labor.
Regardless of the position you take on any issue, you need to articulate it to your community.

I believe in a Net Zero target... when there is a way to achieve it in Australia, there currently isn't one.
Most people have no idea that carbon pricing is about making electricity prohibitively expensive.
You ratchet someone's power bill up by 50% overnight and watch the next election go up in smoke.

Nobody ever explains that currently the amount of carbon emissions in China and India is increasing yearly by more that Australia's total emissions.
If we to make electricity expensive, we destroy our manufacturing industry and the products get made in China instead... Except the electricity is produced by burning dirty coal.
People pretend that solar and wind are there, they aren't.
There is still no cost effective large scale storage systems... PLUS...
We want everyone to buy an electric car and what?... Charge it overnight when there is no sun?
The logic behind the climate change brigade is infantile... I have no love for coal and I don't want climate change... But please, present some real strategy.

I say nuclear power is the only baseload alternative.
But building new power stations is prohibitively expensive and all the total load of crap analysis of solar being cheaper completely ignores the capital cost of building the system, the life of the system, and storage limitations.
The only way solar works is at a micro level and we need every home in Australia to have solar panels ready to be supplemented with batteries when the technology makes sense.

Go Australia, vote Labor in based on the spurious motto of meaningful action on climate change....
Then the very next week throw a massive tanty about energy prices.
Makes sense.

This is why ScoMo was useless, nobody every explains anything to the Australian public.

Nov 18, 2020 23:50:04 GMT @admin said:

Scott Morrison has pulled the wool over so many eyes with his dorky dad routine - he has and always will be actively damaging our country and our future.

I was so on the money here. It was always very frustrating that people fell for his bumbling routine en masse, when you could tell that it was just a tactic to hide the fact that he is/was a zealot.

Aug 16, 2022 2:29:29 GMT @admin said:

Nov 18, 2020 23:50:04 GMT @admin said:

Scott Morrison has pulled the wool over so many eyes with his dorky dad routine - he has and always will be actively damaging our country and our future.

I was so on the money here. It was always very frustrating that people fell for his bumbling routine en masse, when you could tell that it was just a tactic to hide the fact that he is/was a zealot.

I completely disagree.
Don't gete wrong, a completely useless politician

His issue was not that he was a zealot, but that he had no convictions at all. Everything swung on the opinion polls

So far Albo is much more of the same.
Going on holidays less than a 100 days in.
People fawning over what he's accomplished, but he hasn't done anything except pass a couple of bills he has zero idea how to deliver.
I'm also calling it that this indigenous voice referendum will be a shambles.
"Vote yes and we will figure it out later"

It makes absolute sense having indigenous voices on indigenous policy.

But this, like so much will be hijacked and exploited by the wrong people and we'll be tearing down our colonial past past before we know it. Maybe that's hyperbolic. But, when one of the more profilic voices on indigenous affairs, Jacinta Price is calling it virtue-signalling and believing it won't make any practical difference to Aboriginal Australians, you need to worry.

I hate saying this, I live in a community with a higher than average indigenous population and thus, a First Nations perspective is interwoven into particularly every local policy-maker's decision making, and the services and access to support is extensive for indigenous people, and yet nothing changes in the actual community. Education and attendance is low, employment is a struggle and the lower socio-economic neighbourhoods are bleeding with domestic and family violence and drug and alcohol related issues. And this has been the case for as long as I can remember.

But looks phenomenonal on paper.

Aug 16, 2022 9:01:45 GMT NATH45 said:

It makes absolute sense having indigenous voices on indigenous policy.

But this, like so much will be hijacked and exploited by the wrong people and we'll be tearing down our colonial past past before we know it. Maybe that's hyperbolic. But, when one of the more profilic voices on indigenous affairs, Jacinta Price is calling it virtue-signalling and believing it won't make any practical difference to Aboriginal Australians, you need to worry.

I hate saying this, I live in a community with a higher than average indigenous population and thus, a First Nations perspective is interwoven into particularly every local policy-maker's decision making, and the services and access to support is extensive for indigenous people, and yet nothing changes in the actual community. Education and attendance is low, employment is a struggle and the lower socio-economic neighbourhoods are bleeding with domestic and family violence and drug and alcohol related issues. And this has been the case for as long as I can remember.

But looks phenomenonal on paper.

It's no joke if you look across the ditch in NZ.
Without going to a referendum etc the goverment is surrendering power to the Maori people: www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/128969659/white-anxiety-and-the-quest-for-powersharing-in-aotearoa
They now have the rights to all freshwater in New Zealand and are looking for greater power sharing arrangements.

This all sounds fine on the surface, but democracy is meant to work that every vote has the same power.
If you pass veto power to any group you undermine the entre democratic process.
It is also the case that the parties that want to grant more power to these groups are also the political persuasion of the groups in question, so it is not happening with pure motives on all sides.

This is the danger of the indigenous voice in Australia, if it was a ceremonial position to provide advice to the government fine... But how to know it won't become a third chamber of parliment holding the nation to ransom.
Write the legislation and then let's vote on it, but not before.

When I lived in the Northern Territory, they had a big problem with indigenous people being charged with public intoxication.

It wasn’t advised to walk at night as you were almost guaranteed to get bashed and or robbed, there’d constantly be domestics in the middle of the street even in broad daylight, remember my dad had to intervene once because a man was bashing his wife with a stick. So it’s not like it was people just stumbling about.

So they got a bus that would go around and pick up indigenous intoxicated people and give them a bed for the night (& breakfast) before the cops come around. No charges were made therefore the public intoxication problem had been solved because no one was getting charged.

goal achieved!
- government logic 101

I really love the idea that the history of Australia starts with colonization, and indigenous people threaten the traditional way of life. Get the same shit in America. The traditional way of life in both countries is that of the invaders not the people who actually lived there and there is nothing traditional about it.

Aug 16, 2022 10:05:34 GMT System said:

When I lived in the Northern Territory, they had a big problem with indigenous people being charged with public intoxication.

It wasn’t advised to walk at night as you were almost guaranteed to get bashed and or robbed, there’d constantly be domestics in the middle of the street even in broad daylight, remember my dad had to intervene once because a man was bashing his wife with a stick. So it’s not like it was people just stumbling about.

So they got a bus that would go around and pick up indigenous intoxicated people and give them a bed for the night (& breakfast) before the cops come around. No charges were made therefore the public intoxication problem had been solved because no one was getting charged.

goal achieved!
- government logic 101

Victoria decriminalised public intoxication - because it was apparently racist and used to target indigenous people. Public intoxication will now be treated as a medical condition, rather than a crime. It will come into effect in November.

But what does it solve? Nothing.

But use some common sense - if an intoxicated individual is outside a pub at 1am after some celebratory drinks, sure - send them home, no need to arrest them. We've all been in that position and were likely no threat.

If they're drunk at 1pm and hurling abuse at strangers in the park - ok, now they're actually impacting and potentially becoming a threat to themselves and others. This is a police matter to resolve the issue, not a " medical condition " regardless of race, religion or any other divide we can conjure up to justify antisocial behaviour.

And to System point, it potentially leads to actual criminal activity ie; violence, drink-driving, property damage, etc.

I'd guess it won't be long until someone is pulled over, or heaven forbid has an accident and argues against a DUI or vehicular manslaughter by stating their intoxication is a " medical condition " to avoid criminal charges.

Careful guys, hiking off the approved path in Victoria may result in a $924 fine in Daniel Andrews' Victoria.

www.news.com.au/technology/environment/dan-slammed-for-nanny-state-rules-in-victorian-parks/news-story/670a563f39a08241603d043f55933405

Sept 19, 2022 20:47:31 GMT NATH45 said:

Careful guys, hiking off the approved path in Victoria may result in a $924 fine in Daniel Andrews' Victoria.

www.news.com.au/technology/environment/dan-slammed-for-nanny-state-rules-in-victorian-parks/news-story/670a563f39a08241603d043f55933405

Generally speaking anyone who uses the term nanny state is a wanker - but this is VERY rich considering the government was prepared to allow the Arthurs Seat quarry prior to the widespread community outrage.

May 23, 2022 11:04:33 GMT iNCY said:

May 23, 2022 5:23:30 GMT c said:

In the US rural churches are even worse than the megachurches. And in this style of Christianity is the dominant style here. I mean look at the fight between US Catholics and the Vatican, the current self-destruction of the Southern Baptist Convention, the Methodist church split, and the schism in the Evangelical church forming now for examples of how America has its own take on the dominations.

And what we really are seeing when you scale out far enough is the birth of a new branch of Christianity with a truly American Church with its own sets of core beliefs that is getting ready to break free and unify into their own thing with the divinity of America being one of the core tenets.

No, the cases you refer to are the minority, crazy evangelical churches are only a small part of "Christianity".

Not here. At least less and less. As someone who lives in a rural area. Now I try not paint all the believers in the area with the same brush as the churches they attend. In my experience even people who go to wackadoodle churches aren’t always tuned into actually what their church is teaching.


I know what you are saying here incy and I want to believe it too. Because I know many many fine peoples who are Christian. The problem for me is it doesn’t seem to matter. Because the fine upstanding ones all seem to vote the way the wackadoodles want.


I guess what it comes down to until we see more behavior like from the citizens of Martha’s Vineyard and less like the behavior of the Christian governors of Florida and Texas. This is what nonbelievers are gonna think. And that’s not fair. But I’m not worried about Christianity it’ll be fine.

Btw the above applies to my experience in the US I tend to take your word for what goes on in that regard in your country.

Sept 20, 2022 19:30:09 GMT All34LOL said:

May 23, 2022 11:04:33 GMT iNCY said:

No, the cases you refer to are the minority, crazy evangelical churches are only a small part of "Christianity".

Not here. At least less and less. As someone who lives in a rural area. Now I try not paint all the believers in the area with the same brush as the churches they attend. In my experience even people who go to wackadoodle churches aren’t always tuned into actually what their church is teaching.


I know what you are saying here incy and I want to believe it too. Because I know many many fine peoples who are Christian. The problem for me is it doesn’t seem to matter. Because the fine upstanding ones all seem to vote the way the wackadoodles want.


I guess what it comes down to until we see more behavior like from the citizens of Martha’s Vineyard and less like the behavior of the Christian governors of Florida and Texas. This is what nonbelievers are gonna think. And that’s not fair. But I’m not worried about Christianity it’ll be fine.

Btw the above applies to my experience in the US I tend to take your word for what goes on in that regard in your country.

The residents of Martha's Vineyard had all the immigrants deported, I don't think anyone threw open their spare bedroom... Just saying.

Sept 28, 2022 3:06:55 GMT iNCY said:

Sept 20, 2022 19:30:09 GMT All34LOL said:

Not here. At least less and less. As someone who lives in a rural area. Now I try not paint all the believers in the area with the same brush as the churches they attend. In my experience even people who go to wackadoodle churches aren’t always tuned into actually what their church is teaching.


I know what you are saying here incy and I want to believe it too. Because I know many many fine peoples who are Christian. The problem for me is it doesn’t seem to matter. Because the fine upstanding ones all seem to vote the way the wackadoodles want.


I guess what it comes down to until we see more behavior like from the citizens of Martha’s Vineyard and less like the behavior of the Christian governors of Florida and Texas. This is what nonbelievers are gonna think. And that’s not fair. But I’m not worried about Christianity it’ll be fine.

Btw the above applies to my experience in the US I tend to take your word for what goes on in that regard in your country.

The residents of Martha's Vineyard had all the immigrants deported, I don't think anyone threw open their spare bedroom... Just saying.

Maybe check some non conservative biased sources for your fake news. They deportation story was debunked like 6 days ago.

Sept 28, 2022 3:20:19 GMT All34LOL said:

Sept 28, 2022 3:06:55 GMT iNCY said:

The residents of Martha's Vineyard had all the immigrants deported, I don't think anyone threw open their spare bedroom... Just saying.

Maybe check some non conservative biased sources for your fake news. They deportation story was debunked like 6 days ago.

They deported them out of Martha's Vineyard, not out of the country...


www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/sep/21/instagram-posts/claim-marthas-vineyard-deported-migrants-wrong/

Martha's Vineyard claims to be a refuge city, but packed them all off.
I don't see anything altruistic in their actions.