Because we love stats. A major talking point over the last few days has been the actual representation for each state and territory.

The ACT - Australia Capital Territory, had a population of 456,000 people. Less than 7,000 of which identify as Indigenous. The Northern Territory has a population of 250,000 but 75,000 of those are Indigenous.

Despite the overall population (remembering The ACT has an imported political and professional class being the Capital afterall) The Northern Territory has, no surprises... more Indigenous People.

Where do we think the most marginalised, disadvantaged and isolated Indigenous people live in Australia?

Before you answer that...



If you guessed The ACT you'd be wrong.

That image above shows, a woman living on a slab of concrete with her children in the NT - the system, and the Yes Campaigners are failing the people they claim they are meant to be helping. They know of the problems without needing a voice. Alice Springs is literally seeing a mass exodus due to the crime and violence, fueld by drug and alcohol issues and youth crime. It will be a ghost town eventually.

In 3 years domestic violence cases grew by over 2,000 cases in the NT. Communities built out of derelict shanty houses additionally see high rates of drug, alcohol, family and sexual and abuse and violence. It's generational, it's long-term. Leaders know of the problems, yet don't react.

Federal Politians won't touch the place, because they're afraid of being accused of perpetuating a second Stolen Generation if they remove the kids. Lock up the offenders, and they're accused of targeting Indigenous people and become responsible for the high rates of incarnation within these communities. Leaders in the NT were screaming out for Federal support at the beginning of the year, with tears in their eyes in interviews. " It's ok " said the Albanese Government, " vote Yes in The Voice and they'll have their self-determination back "

My point, this would not be tolerated in the major cities. The Government is jumping up and down about Brisbane's crime wave, yet it's happening in NT every day and has been for the best part of a year. And you certainly wouldn't see a family living on a slab of concrete.

So to my point, how many seats on The Voice will NT have? Two. As does everyone else, mostly, including The ACT with this less than 7,000 Indigenous peoples.

If the energy that goes into arguing about " changing the date " and banging on about colonialism and 65,000 of history and reinventing Welcomes to Country and Smoking Ceremonies went into actually spending time in these communities to understand the problems, maybe The Voice might have more support. But you likely won't see anyone from The Yes Campaign in Alice Springs today, they'll be standing outside of a University or private school breathing in burning gum leaves. You'll most likely see No Campaigners in Alice and in other communities, because people like Jacinta Price are from these communities and can see through The Voice.

It's a national shame NATH45, and it is heart breaking.
Also really disingenuous to say the Voice to Parliment can address these issues, the only thing we have proved over the last 50 years is that no amount of money can solve the issue.
The solution has to be radical and if the people in these communities are happy to drink themselves into oblivion, there is no way to intervene without treading on their right to self-governance.

I mean the things we did try, like the payment card for benefits that couldn't be spent on booze were unwound because they were thought to be racist.

I just ranted on the virtue signalling of our Political and academic class.

Part 2 of why nobody supports The Voice, and to your point iNCY.

Accountability.

I could drive down the main street of my home town and point out 15 organisations supporting the local indigenous people. Whether that's education, health, mental health, employment... a few tucks and weaves through some side streets and we've probably counted another 10. Just 4% of the local population identifies as Indigenous.

This isn't too dissimilar to most areas.

But we are told the gap is widening. And it's true. But why aren't these organisations and the communities themselves being held accountable?

It's getting worse and because things aren't working, they need The Voice, because what works for you and I and everyone else in this country doesn't work for indigenous communities.

People don't trust The Voice, because they've been witnessing self governing and social initiatives and lip-service for decades without positive change.

You don't need a voice to get people off the streets, and to curb violence and tackle drug and alcohol issues and family violence, and I bet someone knew of that poor family squatting on a block of concrete before the media published it. The existing voices are being ignored by the same people campaigning for a constitutional voice.

Ironically Nath, that sort of stuff you posted about the Indigenous and the domestic issues is mostly what I know about them. Problems with drugs, sexual abuse and violence that lead to high incarceration rates. Never dug deep as that is literally the otherside of the world, but it is telling when news on that stuff also reaches the other side of the world.

I would not even say it is accountability perse, but people ideally want one system to apply to all. And the way the Voice is set up would give them a unique power as a cultural special interest.  And one that may in time be proven false due to the oddity in the genetic studies.  I still think it is equally likely that they were invaders themselves as they were the first settlers.  The genetic differences and language explosions suggests they can in boats but not from the island chain.  Feels a lot more like the spread of the Spanish language and genetics in the Americas.

I good analogy would be making a Voice in the US, but only of black people due to their history of slavery. It would not just be racists opposing it but hispanics, natives and asians.

We are having a similar elective support conversation about gun violence, and the subset of it that is male suicides due to the lack of social services for males since most are female only. Then of the male ones many are minority only. So far not many are straight out calling bullshit, but it will not be long before formal reviews are done and points out the reason that many white males kill themselves is not because they are too proud to seek resources, but that they do not exist for them and they are instead forced to rely on the church to provide social services and mental and substance abusing counseling. The churches however push Trumpism in rural america and think social services are communism and counseling is woke. But until we fix these items, the gun violence stats will remain skyhigh just because of the hidden white male rural suicide epidemic.

As for the racist cards, our cards in the US can solely be spent on unprepared food. Like rest stop hotdogs are not included, nor is medicine. Can only use them online in very select stores to get bulk food items. They are heavily locked down, and people are fine with it. Sure cash is better, but free money is free money and no one gonna bitch about it. We fight for expansion, but even people on the programs that get cards do not support booze and shit being allowed.

Albo has been given a payrise, I assume to combat cost of living pressures. He picks up another $23,000 a year.

His Deputy has also, get this.. racked up a $3.6m bill by booking himself military planes to fly him from Geelong to Melbourne to avoid the 1 hr drive. He gets a $16,000 pay rise.

Albo has topped that with $5m in flights, and yet despite all this talk about The Voice, he looks to have not visited Alice Springs since the beginning of the year.

Yeah, this is just me venting about the sufferability of this guy. I'm sure he's at a University in Sydney this week sniffing gum leaves.

Daniel Andrews has announced his resignation as the Victorian premier, after nearly nine years in office.
The announcement was made at a press conference outside parliament on Tuesday and comes after prolonged media speculation about his future.
Joined by his wife, Cath, at the press conference, Andrews said he would officially leave office at 5pm Wednesday.
“When it is time, it is time,” he said.
“Recently, in talking to my kids and Cath, thoughts of what life will be like after this job has started to creep in.
“I have always known that the moment that happens it is time to go and to give this privilege, this amazing responsibility to someone else.”

www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/sep/26/daniel-dan-andrews-resigns-quits-retires-victoria-premier-update-announcement

Longest Covid-19 lockdowns in the world, building a police state, hundreds of billions of dollars of debt leaving a grim economic landscape, a cancelled Commonwealth Games and a middle finger to everyone, destroying the timber industry, destruction of small business, demonizing and holding contempt for his populous and punishing his citizens out of spite... did I miss anything?

I would have preferred he died in a firey car crash, I despise the man he is truly evil and I am beyond glad that he is gone.

I can't think anyone else that would elict that sort of sentiment from me.

Sept 26, 2023 13:17:50 GMT iNCY said:

I would have preferred he died in a firey car crash, I despise the man he is truly evil and I am beyond glad that he is gone.

I can't think anyone else that would elict that sort of sentiment from me.

I can think of someone...

SPOILER: Click to show

Sept 26, 2023 16:59:42 GMT Emperor said:

Sept 26, 2023 13:17:50 GMT iNCY said:

I would have preferred he died in a firey car crash, I despise the man he is truly evil and I am beyond glad that he is gone.

I can't think anyone else that would elict that sort of sentiment from me.

I can think of someone...

SPOILER: Click to show

Yeah... But with Triple H I don't actually want to dance on his ashes... 

In other Australian news I don't understand how Victoria banning natural gas makes any sense at all when we have an overloaded electricity grid and burning coal for electricity is dirtier than natural gas. 
It's another case of jumping off a building because it's morally virtuous to do so... And hoping you grow wings before you hit the bottom. 

First... owning a short-term stay. That's a taxin'. 

Now, own an empty house or vacant block. That's a taxin' too. 

That is bullshit. There's plenty of people (considering the COL and housing crisis) purchasing blocks with the original or eventual intent of building when they can afford it. Not every house build is a house and land package. 

8,000 houses in my LGA were impacted by floods a year ago, many of which are still empty due to long waits on recovery/rebuild or lack of funds or insurance refusing to pay out. They'll be taxed. 

Victoria is broke and Labor’s only plan for economic growth is to fuck the middle class. Sure it's only 1% of the value, but that's still an additional $2,500 on a quarter million dollar block of land. 

It's depressing NATH45 I think it is more about budget repair than sustainable housing.
They want to force the sale of these blocks to take their cut on the stamp duty, but with this they can make money either way.

It is a sign that you can remove Dan, but Vic Labor is still a hard left party.

Oct 4, 2023 3:11:45 GMT iNCY said:

It's depressing NATH45 I think it is more about budget repair than sustainable housing.
They want to force the sale of these blocks to take their cut on the stamp duty, but with this they can make money either way.

It is a sign that you can remove Dan, but Vic Labor is still a hard left party.

Farmers are obviously concerned, as blocks of land (sure, it's limited to residential for now) sit for months unused, additional housing on farms, particularly orchards can sit empty during the off-seasons. 

Delays during Victoria's Covid lockdowns have put bottlenecks on building, and additional costs to import timber (as Labor killed off the local timber industry also) can mean, potentially properties sit unfinished for months due to work needing to be complete, or budgets have been pushed to their limits. 

So again - Labor's message to the masses : if you own an investment property and need to up the rent to cover the mortgage, you're a prick. If you own an AirBnB, you're a cunt. If you own any land, you're evil and we'll tax you accordingly. And oh yeah, please build more houses for those poor people. 

The Left of Politics :

" El Nino Mate, it's going to be the hottest start to Spring ever. There's no rain here. Here there's no rain, alright... "

Also :



Here we go again. 12 months on from the last major floods and there's not been a thing done to ensure this doesn't happen again. Nothing proactive, reactive or forward thinking and nothing learned... just thoughts and prayers and alot of stunning and brave photo ops for politicians.

For months farmers and locals have been talking up the possibility of these floods happening again and continuing to happen unless there's major changes with regards to our water management...

Maybe we need a referendum for the political class to listen to their constituents.

Oct 5, 2023 9:05:12 GMT NATH45 said:

The Left of Politics :

" El Nino Mate, it's going to be the hottest start to Spring ever. There's no rain here. Here there's no rain, alright... "

Also :



Here we go again. 12 months on from the last major floods and there's not been a thing done to ensure this doesn't happen again. Nothing proactive, reactive or forward thinking and nothing learned... just thoughts and prayers and alot of stunning and brave photo ops for politicians.

For months farmers and locals have been talking up the possibility of these floods happening again and continuing to happen unless there's major changes with regards to our water management...

Maybe we need a referendum for the political class to listen to their constituents.

Know what I really hate? Politicians doing press conferences in hard hats, especially when it's about a bloody flood

Oct 5, 2023 20:35:56 GMT iNCY said:

Oct 5, 2023 9:05:12 GMT NATH45 said:

The Left of Politics :

" El Nino Mate, it's going to be the hottest start to Spring ever. There's no rain here. Here there's no rain, alright... "

Also :



Here we go again. 12 months on from the last major floods and there's not been a thing done to ensure this doesn't happen again. Nothing proactive, reactive or forward thinking and nothing learned... just thoughts and prayers and alot of stunning and brave photo ops for politicians.

For months farmers and locals have been talking up the possibility of these floods happening again and continuing to happen unless there's major changes with regards to our water management...

Maybe we need a referendum for the political class to listen to their constituents.

Know what I really hate? Politicians doing press conferences in hard hats, especially when it's about a bloody flood

A fresh Akubra hat does it for me. It shows they're men of the people.

Looks like NSW is gonna finally ban conversion therapy by the end of the year. Your Australian Christian Lobby wants the right to torture kids, but their influence not enough to keep it legal.

Got confirmed after ACL bragged to the SMH about killing the ban.

www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-06/nsw-gay-conversion-ban-bill-pushed-forward/102940554

Once the ban is in place, conversion therapy is generally considered child abuse or torture afterwards legally.  Other three states were it is legal also plan to ban it in the future.

Oct 6, 2023 4:06:45 GMT c said:

Looks like NSW is gonna finally ban conversion therapy by the end of the year. Your Australian Christian Lobby wants the right to torture kids, but their influence not enough to keep it legal.

Got confirmed after ACL bragged to the SMH about killing the ban.

www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-06/nsw-gay-conversion-ban-bill-pushed-forward/102940554

Once the ban is in place, conversion therapy is generally considered child abuse or torture afterwards legally.  Other three states were it is legal also plan to ban it in the future.

The laws in Victoria are really broken, I don't support gay conversion therapy against the will of someone.
Here though to provide any advice except gender affirming to someone who is confused is against the law.

Mother Nature to Gippsland:

" sorry about the bushfires, here's some water, that'll put out those fires. "

Mother Nature to Gippsland:

" sorry about the flooding, here's an earthquake to shake that water away... "

Not sure what happened today but saw a wild rant from a liberals activists I follow in Australia about the Voice vote. Trashed it as nothing more than white liberals cleansing themselves of white guilt while they continue to do the same shit whether it passes or fails. She is Sri Lankan and actively support indigenous rights, so not the typical face of opposition.  Kind of need people like her voting yes if this is to pass.  The fact it is not I think is very, very telling.

Also when I looked into this today people were saying it could swap to "yes" within a week, which feels like some are really sucking on that copium. Looked like it was pretty locked onto 40-60 for a while now.  Standard of error does not even get things to a majority yes.

Stat model I seen, and believe says final total 38-42 tops for yes.  Follows a trend line that has been stable since May of support dropping 3 percent every month.

Poll and math for those interested below.

simonjackman.github.io/poll_averaging_voice_2023/poll_averaging.html

For the referendum to be successful a 'double majority' must vote 'yes' to the proposed changes.

A double majority is:

- a national majority of voters in the states and territories
- a majority of voters in at least 4 out of 6 states.

Right now the general consensus is it will fail. Most polls are indicating it will fail.

[The following views aren't necessarily my own]

The general feeling is, it hasn't been explained in enough detail and generally there's far too much misinformation out there, or just simply a lack there of.

Ignoring the conspiracy theorists, the biggest concern for most people is the idea of treaty - why does this scare people you ask? Because there's a lot of campaigners and supporters talking very loudly about a concept called " paying the rent " which is essentially, ideas like either a (larger) percentage of GDP going towards The Voice - an ungoverned body with essentially a blank cheque, or a percentage of one's (non-indigenous people's) income as a home owner doing so ie; another tax.

Why does this upset people, because there already exists a broken network of indigenous services spearheaded by many of these same people already wasting billions of dollars a year will little to no positive impact - the gap between Indigenous Australia and the rest of Australia seems to widen every year despite the billions invested and the services on top of services available.

To loop back to misinformation on this subject - Albo will tell you, this isn't about treaty. Yet his campaigners keep talking about it. And with The Voice being part 1 of 3 (The second being treaty, and the third being essentially a rewriting of Australian history) it's difficult not to believe there's more to it. Supporters keep talking about, sovereignty campaigners keep talking about it... and rather than get his team in line and on the same page, he just ignores the inconsistencies and tells us, there's nothing to see here, and don't worry about the details because he hasn't. Or wears T-Shirts with Treaty written all over.

The current climate is frustrating for a lot of people - being told constantly they're guests in their own country, despite generations of their family born here, then being " welcomed to country " (an idea borrowed from NZ in the 1970s), continual pandering to indigenous peoples.. public acknowledgement of indigenous "leaders" past, present and emerging (most of which have achieved nothing as a leader other than surviving to adulthood), being told the flag their parents and grandparents fought under is a symbol of racism and pretty much everything is racist.

Outside of those concerns, it will divide the country.

You think Covid, or the response to it divided the country? This will really divide the country.

If it gets through, a big part of the country is alienated. Most of the bush is alienated more so. And it will likely lead to any bigotry under the surface bubbling up considering the left wing political class backing The Voice already hates the blue collar working class and the bush. They're not listening to everyday Australians on cost of living pressures, or listening to the bush with regards to fires and floods and drought management, but they'll lock it in stone to focus hyperactively on just 3% of the population. Again despite the countless services available to both indigenous and non-indigenous Australians.

The alternative is, it fails, which makes Australia a racist country and everyone who voted NO a dinosaur or a dickhead as a recent washed up celebrity described No Voters. More class warfare from the left.

If it fails, the current trend continues - if you're indigenous, you're marginalised. You're at a disadvantage. You're a victim of 200 years of colonialism and systematic racism. And if you don't succeed, or life is tough, or you don't want to accept any personal accountability, it's because of the above reasons. That's what you'll be told. And this notion is incredibly damaging to particularly young people. A victim mentality instead of supporting and telling them they can achieve anything.

I'm not picking a winner. I think the bush will largely vote NO, and likely WA is hard NO due to indigenous efforts earlier in the year to extort money and control land developments. My concern is, a lot of people in the cities will vote YES - because of political allegiance more so than the issue itself.

Yeah when I was reading about it, I could not really figure EXACTLY what was being voted on. Like what is the role of the voice itself, and it's powers. As if it is just advisory, then this all is super overcomplicating things. If they have real powers, it was hard to find what exact powers they would be given. Really felt like a vote now and will figure it out later.

I suspect after it fails that a lot of your liberals just move on. They will whine for a bit, but they have no skin in the game, so they will drop their allies once the issue is no longer trendy.

The majority of Australians will move on if it fails. Cost of living pressures are real and the general feeling is we are in for a world of pain over the next few years. Most people are just focused on getting by or trying to get ahead.

I think if it fails, the leaders of the Yes Campaign, the left and supporters will use it as excuse to blame everyone else for the issues plaguing indigenous communities under the notion " we had the opportunity to fix this... " but we chose not to.

The alternative is to focus on the actual marginalised as opposed to everyone under the indigenous banner. Not everyone with indigenous roots is marginalised, or poor or struggling or needs support. And there's certainly a lot of people in Australia marginalised, struggling and battling regardless of race. But we already do that.

This is why a lot of people fear this isn't exactly about the marginalised and more about The Voice opening the door to conversations about land rights, treaty and additional entrenching of tokenism.

The left in Australia once upon a time where of the people. Built by the working man to support the working man, born from the union movement. The left today are metropolitan based pseudo-academic progressives who actively hate the blue collar working class and the centre-right voting bush and while they want to be seen tackling issues in the indigenous communities, they'll routinely give the finger to regional areas (that hold high indigenous populations) these towns (small cities) have to fight to improve education, employment, training, transport and health services. Among other things. By improving these for the greater community and aiding the wider marginalised communities, the by-product is, it improves indigenous communities. But fuck those rednecks, dickheads and dinosaurs because there's no clout in or symbolism in doing that.

These are some apparent *current numbers:

- 3,278 Aboriginal corporations
- 243 Native title bodies
- 48 Land councils
- 35 Regional councils
- 122+ Aboriginal agencies
- 3 Advisory bodies
- 145 Health Organisations
- 11 Indigenous Federal MPs
- 12 Culturally important Indigenous days
- $33 BILLION taxpayer dollars annually for 984,000 people (3.8% of the population)

And none of this is working.

*The figures are based on the 2017 Indigenous Expenditure Report produced by theProductivity Commission.

I don't particularly care, but it's crazy all the people coming out of the woodwork to claim aboriginal heritage and lecture everyone, I don't know where the line should be, but I'm pretty sure if you are 1/32th indigenous and raised in suburbia as an Anglo, you should probably sit down and let someone else speak.

Oct 7, 2023 22:40:06 GMT iNCY said:

I don't particularly care, but it's crazy all the people coming out of the woodwork to claim aboriginal heritage and lecture everyone, I don't know where the line should be, but I'm pretty sure if you are 1/32th indigenous and raised in suburbia as an Anglo, you should probably sit down and let someone else speak.

When I did some cultural training (on the eve of hiring some indigenous people) the definition was loose - it was those who identified with the culture.

Remembering we live in a world that celebrates if you identify as a toaster.

In high school, the rule was 1/16th and it was enough to qualify as indigenous. Despite being 15/16th European.

It was something Alex Antic raised a while ago also. Where is the line?

The people he was quizzing refused to answer the question citing it was racist to even ask the question. But it is a fair question... what is the definition? And will people need to prove their ancestory to say, for example to utilise a particular service?

Or the concern, let's pretend reparations were to be paid to every person identifying as indigenous... what measure is in place to ensure it's not a cash grab by anyone with a drop of indigenous blood mixed with their 95% of Anglo heritage?

Reminds of me of everyone in the US being Irish on St Paddy's day. Or black people tracing heritage back to Africa despite it still being believed all humans first evolved in that area, and the belief that somehow all black people in the US came directly from Africa, which so is absurd.

We got a lot here too that claim native heritage when it suits them at like 1/64th or some shit.

It all reminds of people claiming like their 11th cousin 13th removed was english royalty.

Shocking no one Voice Vote failed.

Oct 14, 2023 9:11:08 GMT c said:

Shocking The Voice Vote failed.

No surprises.

People are sick and tired of hearing about it and being lectured to.

I could list 10 reasons right now why this failed and why Australians feel there are bigger issues to worry about in this country.

Cue the left-wing celebrity class calling over half the country " lazy dinosaur dickhead mongrels " for the next few months until it's +40 degrees and they'll be back to ranting about climate change again.

I am not shocked at all, demos showed most did not support it, and despite being as liberal as I am, it was hard to determine exactly what was being vote on. A lot of it seemed like vote now and if it passes we will finish the assignment of actually writing the bill you were voting on. With the little effort that went into this, it deserved to fail.  Like I would want to support this, but did they not win me. I did not seem to find anyway this actually addressed the core actual problems it claimed to.

People may scream outrage, but the polls I posted earlier showed it would fail three months ago, and as the margins closed polls were overestimating support.

People can whine racism too, but with as deeply unpopular as this was, it will lose them supporters not gain them any.  Frankly they should have demanded this all be fleshed out, and a path to success was laid out from the get go, as no way this comes up for a second vote any time soon if they do iron out the details.