Oct 14, 2023 10:11:07 GMT c said:

People can whine racism too, but with as deeply unpopular as this was, it will lose them supporters not gain them any. 

The prominent indigenous Yes Campaigners have released a statement declaring they won't be commenting on the results, refusing media and consider this a period of mourning and flying flags at half-mast.

In short, they've taken their ball and went home.

That's how you win support... by throwing a tantrum.

---

NZ is holding their election today, and it looks like the left has lost again, with the likelihood the centre-right Nationals have taken the win.

This ends the Ardern era of NZ batshit progressiveness politics. Similarly to Dan, she loved a lockdown and like Albo, she loves a treaty and like all left-wingers in this part of the world, she loved a bit of China.

I'm a bit pissy about the constant accusations of misinformation being the reason No won, it's so condescending to say that people are unable to make up their own minds.

If the Yes group hadn't created a vacuum of information, there would be no possibility of anything filling the gap.

Looks like Aussieland going America this weekend. Nazi's out and about in Melbourne.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12629389/Huge-group-masked-Nazis-allowed-assemble-Melbournes-Flinders-street-station-throw-banned-Hitler-salutes-swarming-train-chilling-question-asked-solo-passenger.html

Also there was a yes celebration event last night o.O Were they really that deluded?

I just saw the misinformation claim. Had to have misinformation, when there was no information. Like two months back I went to find the details of what exact this would allow, and I could not find it. I saw a lot of what they claimed it would accomplish, but no details as to how this would differ really what they have right now.

Also not bad, said I expected 38-42 and right now it is 40.

Did the best in Victoria at 45%.

Oct 14, 2023 11:53:38 GMT c said:

Looks like Aussieland going America this weekend. Nazi's out and about in Melbourne.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12629389/Huge-group-masked-Nazis-allowed-assemble-Melbournes-Flinders-street-station-throw-banned-Hitler-salutes-swarming-train-chilling-question-asked-solo-passenger.html

Tensions have been building all week in the wake of the Israeli-Gaza war, and there's a lot of young men out there right now being real dickheads stoking the flames.

When QANON took hold in Aussieland many likely stayed for the transformation from COVID conspiracy to antisemitism. Should not be a shock to learn people believed in COVID conspiracies now believe in Jewish conspiracies.

Oct 14, 2023 12:07:53 GMT c said:

Also there was a yes celebration event last night o.O Were they really that deluded?

I just saw the misinformation claim. Had to have misinformation, when there was no information. Like two months back I went to find the details of what exact this would allow, and I could not find it. I saw a lot of what they claimed it would accomplish, but no details as to how this would differ really what they have right now.

Also not bad, said I expected 38-42 and right now it is 40.

Did the best in Victoria at 45%.

The 'lack of information' narrative was the misinformation according to the Yes Campaign. But it in itself was misinformation. You follow?

When asked for information, the Yes Campaign was either telling people to chill out and not to worry about the details or calling everyone dumb racists for not being able to find it.

But sure, there was misinformation. That misinformation (some of it bordering on conspiracy theories) filled in the blanks because the Yes Campaign was both so blasé in giving up any detail and so arrogant to believe they didn't need to.

Oct 14, 2023 12:23:43 GMT c said:

When QANON took hold in Aussieland many likely stayed for the transformation from COVID conspiracy to antisemitism. Should not be a shock to learn people believed in COVID conspiracies now believe in Jewish conspiracies.

You're giving them too much credit.

There's massive amounts of Middle Eastern and Eastern European migrants in Australia, and part of them do very little to integrate into mainstream society in addition to holding on to old world beliefs.

They bring their own brand of tribalism and bullshit to our shores that pre-dates any online conspiracy theories.

I was watching fist fights in high school 25 years ago between racial and ethnic groups over things my dumbass Aussie brain couldn't understand.

" Oh great, the Yugoslavs or the Lebs or the Masos or the Serbs or the Croatians or the Palestinians are fighting with the well, pick any of those listed above and every other nationality for that matter. "

From what I seen these were National Socialist Network members based on their dress and markings. Face covering style is distinct. Likely done so they can identify when it is them or a false flag. But like also lets other know. These are white Aussies not outsiders when unmasked and then doxed. Also follow the QANON nazi fight club and camping club style recruiting and prepping for the Storm.

Deep dive into them.

www.theage.com.au/national/inside-racism-hq-how-home-grown-neo-nazis-are-plotting-a-white-revolution-20210812-p58i3x.html

Oct 14, 2023 12:38:25 GMT NATH45 said:

Oct 14, 2023 12:07:53 GMT c said:

Also there was a yes celebration event last night o.O Were they really that deluded?

I just saw the misinformation claim. Had to have misinformation, when there was no information. Like two months back I went to find the details of what exact this would allow, and I could not find it. I saw a lot of what they claimed it would accomplish, but no details as to how this would differ really what they have right now.

Also not bad, said I expected 38-42 and right now it is 40.

Did the best in Victoria at 45%.

The 'lack of information' narrative was the misinformation according to the Yes Campaign. But it in itself was misinformation. You follow?

When asked for information, the Yes Campaign was either telling people to chill out and not to worry about the details or calling everyone dumb racists for not being able to find it.

But sure, there was misinformation. That misinformation (some of it bordering on conspiracy theories) filled in the blanks because the Yes Campaign was both so blasé in giving up any detail and so arrogant to believe they didn't need to.

Everything I saw was post voice vote groups would be set up to flesh out the details.  Like that is not good enough.  You had years to flesh this out and not doing it was just lazy as fuck.  People wanted to know the bounds of the power of various groups and Yes had no answers.  There was a lot of misinformation where people claimed they would give sweeping power to the Voice, but really the problem was the opposite, there was no information at all on the powers in depth so people were able to fill in the blanks with misinformation.

They can scream racism, but if they wanted this to pass, they should have done better work.  It failing is on them, not the people of Australia.  It was literally their job to convince the people to accept this, and they failed.

A big component of the No Campaign was, and why it was so effective is they allowed two indigenous people to lead it. Opposition Leader Peter Dutton really took a step back and let, particularly Jacinta Price take the lead.

Price is a proud indigenous woman from the NT and outside of being incredibly articulate and professional throughout the campaign, she is genuine. As is her tag team partner, Warren Mundine.

In contrast the Yes Campaign was lead by the bumbling PM Anthony Albanese, who couldn't, wouldn't and felt he shouldn't answer any questions in detail. Noel Pearson was the same, and went around in circles when questioned. Speaking of incoherent, Linda Burney couldn't make an argument that wasn't from a script. Thomas Mayo is a loud and proud communist who couldn't keep his mouth shut and said too much. That and, Yes Campaigners and high profile supporters calling everyone racist, lazy, and indecent. Dickheads, dinosaurs, etc.

Ironically and as it's being discussed today on new media.. areas with high indigenous populations voted No. Including overwhelming, The NT. Areas populated by the elite, the affluent and primarily Anglo voted Yes. So, the majority of Australians are either dumb racists or the left-wing political, social and celebrity class are completely out of touch with average Australians.

The way that Labor is pummelling the Misinformation narrative makes me super nervous they're planning to go for their government control of facts bill, which honestly I find pretty scary... I can't think of any time in history where a ministry of truth has been a positive development.

SA (where not a single electoral voted Yes) is moving forward with a Voice. Talk of Treaty being passed in Victoria.... because fuck democracy said a Labor minister or two.

Misinformation Bill being pushed. Because by-gawd there's no way the elite could be out of touch with average Australians. Screams of Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Lydia Thorpe declaring " we're at war " she's right, the 15 personalities that occupy her head are at war with each other.

Professional Cricketers are being offered counselling.

The left are free falling today. Everyone is racist and evil and we all should be ashamed of ourselves.

Oct 15, 2023 3:43:22 GMT NATH45 said:

SA (where not a single electoral voted Yes) is moving forward with a Voice. Talk of Treaty being passed in Victoria.... because fuck democracy said a Labor minister or two.

Misinformation Bill being pushed. Because by-gawd there's no way the elite could be out of touch with average Australians. Screams of Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Lydia Thorpe declaring " we're at war " she's right, the 15 personalities that occupy her head are at war with each other.

Professional Cricketers are being offered counselling.

The left are free falling today. Everyone is racist and evil and we all should be ashamed of ourselves.

Mostly the sentiment I have seen from those that lost is that their views were perfect and just and then only reason Australia didn't fall at their feet in rapturous worship is due to the evil lies of Peter Dutton and the right wing media... That nobody watches....

The smartest thing to do is turn off ABC, SBS and Triple J for the next month and you probably won't hear a thing about The Voice. Most people will and have moved on.

The fallout continues. There's now pressure to as news.com.au put it - explain the Voice referendum “wipe-out” and the $400 million poured “down the drain” on the vote during a cost-of-living crisis.

Oct 15, 2023 8:27:57 GMT NATH45 said:

The smartest thing to do is turn off ABC, SBS and Triple J for the next month and you probably won't hear a thing about The Voice. Most people will and have moved on.

As I say that, these guys are in a free-fall.

A presenter on ABC's Insiders suggesting a rise in the Black Sovereignty movement as a result and noted that 'kindness' from Aboriginal People hasn't worked, and that maybe they try 'black anger' to get a better result. The entire conversation opens the door to more division.

Usually bipartial (insert eye rolling emoji here) youth radio station Triple J played Treaty by Yothu Yindi for 4 hours on repeat, with the host... Nooky (who is usually just awful anyway at his normal duties) citing "the most overt, unconcealed manifestation of racism I have ever experienced in my whole life"

Ironically while conservatives are calling for unity and moving forward together as one people, it's the left engaging in death threats, violent threats, slandering and physically attacking their opponents.

We voted against policy, or lack there of, not people.

There was a ton of misinformation about the Voice vote. Some of it made it here. Things like it will split the nation, creates taxes, create a third chamber, allow the voice to treaty making power, secret documents existed that fleshed out the 8 proposals, the UN would somehow get votes in parliament, and even the AEC would be using the same tech that stole the 2020 election were all over social media and some pushed publically by no people. Misinformation people have lists of dozens of claims that did get widespread coverage.

Like there was very little that a yes vote would do the day after the election, but people assumed that it would grant immediate powers rather than start a process to create the Voice to the parliament and ultimately determine what that means post election. Which was my issue, it was fucking weird how open ended everything was an seemed overly complicated to basically create what amounts to a US style lobby without bribery powers.

I do find it telling that no group is saying, well, we will just become the Indigenous Voice to the Parliament and advise parliament on Indigenous issues anyway.

Info from one of the teams investigation.

www.sbs.com.au/news/article/extremely-politicised-and-very-worrying-how-misinformation-about-the-voice-spread/w9sl4pzba

Another team I follow on twitter found deep links between australian QANON posts, anti-vax, and no misinformation, with the more centroids for all three groups being the same hubs.

These are also the people screaming the misinformation bill will be the government trying to silence it's critics. Always interesting it is conservative groups that freak out when you try to push bills to make spreading misinformation illegal. Kind like just admitting they only can keep support if they lie to people.

EDIT:

Ah someone from the second group talked to the guardian.

www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/12/anti-lockdown-alliances-find-new-focus-in-backing-voice-no-campaign

Oct 16, 2023 3:57:57 GMT c said:

I do find it telling that no group is saying, well, we will just become the Indigenous Voice to the Parliament and advise parliament on Indigenous issues anyway.

They can, and a few states are moving forward with a version of it. The difference between it being in the constitution and not, is the next government can essentially rip it up. Being in the constitution means a referendum is needed to get rid of it.

But, there are voices to parliament. That's the main argument of the No Campaign. It's just there's been very little accountability. Australian tax payers have thrown tens of billions at indigenous services a year, yet the gap widens. Because there's no accountability.

A great example was the Indigenous Minister talking about all the issues in Indigenous Australian's lives. Ok, we're all on board, you have the support, you have the cash... go for it. Fix it. How does it being in the constitution fix a lack of action and accountability by the very people tasked with the job to fix it?

From what I seen the Voice would not have had the powers to tax, propose or allocate any funding outside of an advisor role. It was merely advisory, so would be up to Parlament to have decided to listen to them or ignore them. And in countries that have set up stuff like this, they are rapidly ignored since they have no voting power.

US has have people representing territories for instance in the House of Rep. After the Puerto Rico disaster a few years back people had a problem with even the Puerto Rican rep addressing the House.

As for no accountability, what I understand is everything is Australian National Audit Office handles all of that and releases the information publicly for funding voted on by Parliament. Then Parliament for new funding is the check as everything is durational. So no accountability is not really true.

Accountability is an issue.

It was one of the talking points Jacinta Price noted when the No Vote got up. It has been a talking point since day one of this debate. 

Jacinta Price is on my TV right now calling for an audit into indigenous spending. Why.... take a guess = " Lack of outcomes " and that's a direct quote from a future Prime Minster. 

Accountability of the government departments, indigenous services and the magnitude of initiatives in delivering what they've set out to deliver and in a sufficient time frame. 

We talk about this sort of stuff in the General Labour Crap thread all the time - wasteful meetings, silly agendas, middle(mis-)management, consultations, pandering and lack of productivity. 

Locally, they've been talking about these same issues for 30 years and yet the gap widens. Things are worse now than 30 year ago in some communities, yet there's more money and more people on the payroll, and everything we do includes a Welcome to Country or Ceremony - yet accountability isn't an issue? Come on... Conservatives aren't hurting indigenous people, the 6 out 10 Australian's that voted No aren't hurting indigenous people. It's the lack of action, real action, accountability in those sectors to ensure they're actually fixing or aiding in fixing real issues and the unchecked spending that is hurting indigenous people. 

That is a political line. All the inform that they are claiming that an audit is needed for get, likely is already on the Australian National Audit Office website. You can do a fidelity of implementation evaluation, but all that will tell you is how closely the money was spent on what it was supposed to be spent on, and usually in these instances, it is very well barring illegal activities. Ditto for carrying out services paid for by a government entity. They usually have a high degree of fidelity unless illegal actions were carried out, and then covered up.

The issue of lack of outcomes, is also political. That just means the programs they were able to get support for did not work as effectively as they should. Which should be the expected position since no program can ever get through a political body in the state that it would work best in as politicians demand changes without the expertise to understand the harms.

The costs of the study being asked for is in the hundreds of millions most likely. Looking at 30 years of data, from diverse groups, in a mix of fidelity and retro evaluation will need a large team of people with a variety of expensive expertises likely working for several years.

And the result of said evaluation is pretty predictable. It is near impossible to solve widening inequality by only propping up the subpopulations most effected by it. Depending on the model they use for feature selection some items will be mislabeled as effective, some mislabeled as not effective, but mostly will be commonsense shit like funding healthcare, education and housing leads to the best outcomes per dollar. But any decent evaluation will not that the core cause of the problem cannot be fixed with social problems that do not address the core economics problems that lead to inequality. And the people screaming for these audits know this, and will ignore the results.

So you all will spend close to 100 million on this massive review for no actionable reason but to distract you from thinking something meaningful is being done. But they know full well you are not going to read a report that is thousands of pages long.

c, it's a bit of a mess when you spend $30 billion per year on 985,000 people and not only don't see any improvements, but you cannot see the money reaching the communities in any visible way.

The glory of Australian politics, makes me feel patriotic

Nov 13, 2023 11:20:04 GMT iNCY said:

The glory of Australian politics, makes me feel patriotic

If he does it again does he get a booting?

If " Handsome Boy " Albo and his visit to China to talk Pandas and Tasmanian Devils didn't get you excited, you've got a cold dead heart..

Considering the PM is kinda talking about this I guess it goes here despite being a non-issue.

Woolworths (Australian supermarket chain) have decided not to stock Australia Day items. Not for any moral reasons, just because it doesn’t make financial sense.
It’s all made in China and cheap tacky garbage.

This leads to every boomer I know posting about how outraged they are and are planning to boycott Woolworths. Not because of the prices or anything of that nature
but because they can’t buy said garbage.

Every year it’s a month of complaining followed by a small bogan celebration, just drink your beers like you do every other occasion and shut the fuck up. It’s on a Friday this year with most people knocking off early Fridays anyway so not much to get in a fuss about.

Jan 23, 2024 2:22:25 GMT System said:

Considering the PM is kinda talking about this I guess it goes here despite being a non-issue.

Woolworths (Australian supermarket chain) have decided not to stock Australia Day items. Not for any moral reasons, just because it doesn’t make financial sense.
It’s all made in China and cheap tacky garbage.

This leads to every boomer I know posting about how outraged they are and are planning to boycott Woolworths. Not because of the prices or anything of that nature
but because they can’t buy said garbage.

Every year it’s a month of complaining followed by a small bogan celebration, just drink your beers like you do every other occasion and shut the fuck up. It’s on a Friday this year with most people knocking off early Fridays anyway so not much to get in a fuss about.

I do agree that this is the new "War on Christmas" outrage and is tiring.
Woolworths are hard to take seriously though as they are stocking promotions for Chinese New Year, would think there is a bigger market for Australia Day than that.

It is annoying the whole corporate boycott of Australia Day, I don't like it.
I am on the record that I am happy to change the date, I would also change the flag on the basis that we only have ONE flag, seeing everyone pose in front of three of them is a nonsense.

Ok, you want the inside scoop. I'm a former Woolworths cult member, so here it is. A few years back Woolworths launched their reconciliation plans (also becoming a massive contributor to The Yes Campaign in the process) and this is part of it, acknowledgement of first nations people and the impact colonialism has had. They put it a little more articulate than that.

This actually started about 2 years ago, Woolies copped a bit of grassroots flack for smothering their shops in Aussie flags, and essentially ripped it down over night at the first sign of a triggered social media influencer and started the pandering pretty quickly after that.

Welcome to Country is performed in every meeting, often more than once if the session has a new speaker or break. And there is often referral to the indigenous names for places " I'm coming to you from... XYZ land. " The irony is, most of the leadership is White, or Indian or Italian. It's met with eye rolls at all levels listening to a WASP type bang on about their interests in the local cultural diversity.

It's literally this:



The products are pieces of shit no doubt, but they've got a high GP, and the hypocrisy is - Woolworths celebrate Chinese New Year, Ramadan, Jewish Passover, etc... an " event every month " as they used to say.

Woolworths is a woke company. More so, Woolworths corporate is. They did some fantastic work around equality and diversity especially around the LBGTQ community - but took it a step too far by sending people around to stores to sell the Yes to Gay Marriage Bill, to the point of asking people how they were voting. Then identifying potential no voters and sitting them down and demanding to know why. WTF? Imagine being Muslim, Christian or holding traditional beliefs and being sat down and being accosted by a smug 24 year old HR stooge. Or the gender and POC quotas.. it took a very senior person in the company to step in a tell a lot of state, group and zone managers and their associated entourages who implemented such quotas for leadership to cut the shit and that's not how equality works. It's the best person for the job. But it wasn't always.

www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/woolies-boss-refuses-to-answer-whether-supermarket-is-antiaustralia-day/news-story/31e6cf25590e78439fc0c3816449d109

The Woolies boss Brad Banducci, on Today. Having seen that man usually very sure of himself, that's a man with little confidence right there.

The hole is getting deeper.

As for the landfill. It never goes into landfill at the store end. It gets reduced to clear usually the day after and sells through at a loss by week's end.

Brad is South African. As is the Director of Stores. Two Manager directors, British. The Chief Marketing Officer, South African. The Chief People Officer, South African. The Vic State Manager is British, as was the previous one. And half the zone level operation managers are from the UK also. 3 out of 4 of my previous zone managers were British. And the new one reportedly is also British.

So you can understand the lack of care for Australia Day. And considering these people are hardly average Australians in terms of income, to suggest they live in a Northern Beaches echo bubble wouldn't be far off the mark.

Be a supermarket, not a political organisation.








But of course, all of this is to distract us from a senate inquiry.