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Post by UT on Nov 21, 2020 23:40:17 GMT
It’s pushed. I’m actually with The Kid. Also Salt N Pepa. It’s PUSH IT , PUSH IT REAL GOOD! Not SHOVE IT , SHOVE IT REAL GOOD.
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Legend
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Post by 🤯 on Nov 21, 2020 23:48:24 GMT
It’s pushed. I’m actually with The Kid. Also Salt N Pepa. It’s PUSH IT , PUSH IT REAL GOOD! Not SHOVE IT , SHOVE IT REAL GOOD. Entirely different messages! SnP are singing about a pleasurable sexual experience. Of course PUSH is better in that context. In the context of homosexual power rape, SHOVE is both more violent and more alliterative with SHIT. Eh!?
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Post by The Kid on Nov 21, 2020 23:53:38 GMT
Might be time for the next movie. 😂
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Post by 🤯 on Nov 22, 2020 0:54:35 GMT
I don’t understand why people get hung up on that saving the girl piece. It’s a movie , things happen like that all the time and it was a nice surprise the first time. If you’re going to take apart every movie by pieces like that then you’ll have a very miserable movie life. Hey! You have a very miserable movie life, pal! You tell him, jTjohncenaGOAT. Shove his shit in!
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Post by bodyslam on Nov 22, 2020 1:16:18 GMT
Training Day makes me think of a wrestling chant. OVERRATED! (clap, clap, clap-clap-clap) OVERRATED! (clap, clap, clap-clap-clap) I really hope Denzel has something else higher on the list.
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Post by Lionheart on Nov 22, 2020 6:43:13 GMT
In all honesty about the girl coincidence moment, I hold it in the same regard as the “Martha” moment from Batman v Superman. What a silly coincidence to move the movie plot along. There was some writer’s notes from the guys who made the original Pixar films going around for a while: they are basically rules for making movies. One of them said “coincidences to can your hero into trouble but it can’t get them out.” And that’s really what happened here. It’s poor storytelling. I highly object to this statement. That is ridiculous as a general statement to apply to all cases. There are always exceptions to any rule in art, first of all. But I feel like that quote is being taken out of context. Do you have a link for that? It’s blatantly logically inconsistent the way you worded it. Why would coincidences be more likely to get you into trouble than out? Just because some people think it feels cheap one way only? They are holding double standards in that case, which is silly. It was EASILY within the realm of possibility, so anyone who didn’t like it for that reason is just being nitpicky.
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Post by Strobe on Nov 22, 2020 9:56:41 GMT
It’s blatantly logically inconsistent the way you worded it. Why would coincidences be more likely to get you into trouble than out? As a general rule, it isn't necessarily a bad one. Any number of coincidences could happen that could put you in any number of troubles. Once you are in any one of those specific troubles, you need a specific coincidence to get you out. The exact quote is “coincidences to get your character into trouble is good. Coincidences to get them out of trouble is cheating.” And I stand by that having the same meaning. The hero needs to be the winner. Not the situation. But in this case, it was his being a hero and saving the girl that did get him out of trouble. Sure, it was coincidence that it was a relation of the man that was going to kill him, but still. It isn't especially great writing, but it does not feel like the many awful coincidences you can find in other movies. Hawke is out of his depth, in a world he doesn't really know, has been abandoned to be killed and his heroic quality, his being a good guy earlier, JUST saves him and he gets out by the skin of his teeth. The more I think about it, the more it works for me.
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Post by sandylea on Nov 22, 2020 14:07:01 GMT
I really hope some of the movies on my list start showing up again. The last movie that was on my list was Django Unchained, either the other movies I’ve seen and enjoyed but didn’t make my list or I haven’t seen/didn’t like.
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Post by UT on Nov 22, 2020 14:17:56 GMT
Se7en is tremendous , I actually threw it on again yesterday because I knew it was coming up and found myself totally engrossed in it again. There are so many things in this movie you can appreciate and find , or just be struck by a different way when you rewatch it. A few things that stood out to me this time , that I may have already known but really pulled my attention. Brad Pitt's performance is great , I think the default response is that he is relatively young at this time and got better but he's SO fucking good in this movie as the young brash sledgehammer of a cop. The way they set up his character for the ending is perfect. That car ride at the end with John Doe talking is just eery as hell and perfect. His back and forth with Mills almost gives me chills knowing what is coming. Spacey for all his faults as a human being was the perfect person to play that role too. I never noticed the correlations as much before with Somerset and Doe , they are subtle and certainly don't hit you over the head but their view on the world isn't drastically different. They're approach to it obviously is but their pessimistic views of the human race really works and their interactions with each other have depth because of that. Also John C. McGinley as California always has me marking out. Overall I probably jipped the movie a few spots on my rankings , but I'm curious to where Emperor stands on it now? Have you watched the whole movie yet? Are you really going to tell me that Table 19 earned the right to finish but Se7en didn't? Shameful.
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Post by Emperor on Nov 22, 2020 14:34:55 GMT
I can confirm that I haven't watched the whole movie.
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Post by UT on Nov 22, 2020 14:36:24 GMT
Well after hearing that you gave Table 19 the benefit of the doubt and finished it , I demand you to watch the entire movie of Se7en.
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Post by 🤯 on Nov 22, 2020 14:43:28 GMT
Well after hearing that you gave Table 19 the benefit of the doubt and finished it , I demand you to watch the entire movie of Se7en. I can confirm, Dr. Emperor — Se7en is definitely infinitely more worth watching than Table 19. Seeing so many heavy hitter PW favorites dropping has me wondering what the points gaps are in the worst way. Feels like they must be tit hair slim at this stage.
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Post by UT on Nov 22, 2020 14:54:41 GMT
Well after hearing that you gave Table 19 the benefit of the doubt and finished it , I demand you to watch the entire movie of Se7en. I can confirm, Dr. Emperor — Se7en is definitely infinitely more worth watching than Table 19. Seeing so many heavy hitter PW favorites dropping has me wondering what the points gaps are in the worst way. Feels like they must be tit hair slim at this stage. The Top 50 in points: 50: Halloween (357) 49: Rocky (361) 48: It's a Wonderful Life (363) 47: LOTR: The Two Towers (366) 46: The Silence of the Lambs (376) 45: The Social Network (381) 44: Beauty and the Beast (388) 43: Taxi Driver (394) 42: No Country for Old Men (396) 41: Superbad (399) 40: Saving Private Ryan (401) 39: Training Day (402) 38: Seven (406) 37: TBA: (410) Some are really close , others have a few points difference. No ties in the Top 50 at all which was the craziest part to me. I'll try and remember to post the points with the movies going forward. I did plan on it and then forgot.
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Post by UT on Nov 22, 2020 14:57:38 GMT
Also I forgot who had asked but someone wanted the all the movies to receive a vote at the end and after my daughter went on my computer the other day , my original master list is gone. Thankfully I sent a PM to myself on PW with the Top 200 listed so the list is safe.
And I'll try to recover the master list.
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Post by The Kid on Nov 22, 2020 15:22:18 GMT
se7en is great.
It’s not Training Day great though.
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Post by Lionheart on Nov 22, 2020 16:12:17 GMT
I highly object to this statement. That is ridiculous as a general statement to apply to all cases. There are always exceptions to any rule in art, first of all. But I feel like that quote is being taken out of context. Do you have a link for that? It’s blatantly logically inconsistent the way you worded it. Why would coincidences be more likely to get you into trouble than out? Just because some people think it feels cheap one way only? They are holding double standards in that case, which is silly. It was EASILY within the realm of possibility, so anyone who didn’t like it for that reason is just being nitpicky. I hate that I put that in quotes when I was actually paraphrasing what it said. I’ll see if I can track down the original quote. What they’re saying is, it’s ok for a coincidence to get you in trouble but if you want your hero to be the actual hero, they need to be the one who solves the problem, not a coincidence. The exact quote is “coincidences to get your character into trouble is good. Coincidences to get them out of trouble is cheating.” And I stand by that having the same meaning. The hero needs to be the winner. Not the situation. That’s kind of the whole point of Training Day though. Jake is the hero of the story but he is by no means “a hero”. He gets manipulated the whole film like a weak ass and his principles, combined with a shitton of luck, drag him to a victory. He is an everyman and the scene specifically highlights this. We are supposed to feel that he is helpless. That the more powerful Alonzo could feasibly have won at any time (even intellectually, as his arguments are persuasive and typically better than Jake’s....able to re-persuade him numerous times). It wasn’t until this scene that Alonzo truly crosses a definitive line and we know for sure he is even the villain. Of course Jake needs some luck to escape the situation after being fooled so many times.
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Post by Lionheart on Nov 22, 2020 16:26:23 GMT
It’s blatantly logically inconsistent the way you worded it. Why would coincidences be more likely to get you into trouble than out? As a general rule, it isn't necessarily a bad one. Any number of coincidences could happen that could put you in any number of troubles. Once you are in any one of those specific troubles, you need a specific coincidence to get you out. I can see where you are coming from and that sounds almost like it might be true, but I feel it is a misnomer to justify such a rule with that reasoning. In the realm of possibilities, there are virtually unlimited situations that could arise to both put and remove someone from trouble. There is far more than a single way that Jake could have been saved. Of course there is a smaller subset of things that would remove someone from a specific kind of trouble, but that doesn’t mean it is impossible at all - or necessarily less likely than many negative coincidences that we see happen to people in movies. It is far too generalizing. The extremity of the quote is what I take issue with though mainly. To properly reword what I said, “why would coincidence be capable of putting someone in trouble but not removing someone from trouble”. Both are clearly possible. And of course it’s not wrong to do the latter.
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Post by 🤯 on Nov 22, 2020 16:40:35 GMT
It's a total coincidence that Chris survives the fire base being overrun at the end of Platoon.
Is that the kind of coincidence we're talking about here?
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Post by Baker on Nov 22, 2020 23:15:02 GMT
82. Seven- Just go read UT's post....again.
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Post by UT on Nov 22, 2020 23:18:39 GMT
82. Seven- Just go read UT's post....again. Stop coasting off my mediocrity.
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Post by Baker on Nov 22, 2020 23:22:56 GMT
82. Seven- Just go read UT 's post....again. Stop coasting off my mediocrity. Never! Your totally not mediocrity saves me time and offers more in depth analysis than my lame "I liked when that character did that thing" hot takes.
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Post by Shootist on Nov 23, 2020 2:28:16 GMT
8. The Shining (1980) 9. Rear Window (1954) 11. Apocalypse Now: Redux (2001) 12. 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) 17. Planes, Trains and Automobiles (1987) 19. The Breakfast Club (1985) 21. Clerks (1994) 24. Raiders Of The Lost Ark (1981) 25. A Nightmare On Elm Street (1984) 26. Rocky (1976) 29. Rocky IV (1985) 33. Raging Bull (1980) 34. Taxi Driver (1976) 35. Happy Gilmore (1996) 38. Fargo (1996) 39. Se7en (1995) 40. Back To The Future Part II (1989) 42. Terminator (1984) 45. Die Hard: With A Vengeance (1995) 46. Braveheart (1995) 47. Boogie Nights (1997) 48. The Silence Of The Lambs (1991) 54. Speed (1994) 56. Full Metal Jacket (1987) 66. American Psycho (2000) 67. Falling Down (1993) 75. Kill Bill Vol.1 (2003) 78. Avengers: Endgame (2019) 79. Logan (2017) 81. Batman Begins (2005) 83. Scarface (1983) 86. Halloween (1978) 87. Apollo 13 (1995) 94. One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest (1975) 99. E.T.: The Extra Terrestrial (1982) 100. Vertigo (1958)
Just off the consensus again, Se7en just works on so many levels. It had me hook, line and sinker on first watch and it left me utterly devastated for Brad Pitt's character at the end. Further rewatches keep you intrigued and looking for the little things as you know the end result but seeing how we get there keeps you engaged. Just the mark of great writing and directing. This is a contender for all the major players Mount Rushmore and besides John C. McGinely another mark out moment for an appearance was R. Lee Ermey as the chief.
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Post by thereallt on Nov 23, 2020 2:57:37 GMT
6.Saving Private Ryan 7.The Terminator 9.Bladerunner 11.City of God 13.Unforgiven 14.The Dirty Dozen 15.Raging Bull 16.Raiders of the Lost Ark 19.Schindler's List 20.The Princess Bride. 22.Blazing Saddles 23.Trading Places 26.Die Hard With a Vengeance 27.Logan 34.Training Day 43.Man on Fire 44.Return of the Jedi 45.Halloween 49.Taxi Driver 52.Tombstone 53.John Wick 54.Braveheart 55.Gladiator 57.The Avengers 69.Chinatown 72.Seven 73.Boogie Nights 74.Thor:Ragnarok 82.Casablance 84. Scarface 85.Heat 87.Full Metal Jacket 90.True Lies 98.The Sandlot 99.The Wizard of Oz 100.Big Trouble in Little China
One of the all-time murder mystery/neo-noir films. Seven just works on so many levels. A definite Mt. Rushmore for Fincher and quite possibly for Pitt and Freeman as well.
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Post by UT on Nov 23, 2020 3:16:36 GMT
Toy Story 3 has came up a ton , and deservingly so. The capper to arguably the most perfect trilogy of all time. It's weird to grow with a franchise like that and feel everything along the way. I think it's the ultimate movie for both kids and adults to enjoy and even on different levels.
As has been said before , the scene where they are preparing for their demise as a group and even more so the scene at the end is about as emotional as a grown man can get watching an animated movie. It's almost unfair to do that to your audience but they make it work.
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Post by 🤯 on Nov 23, 2020 4:12:18 GMT
Buzz really gets his shit shoved in in Toy Story 3.
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Post by Big Pete on Nov 23, 2020 5:41:20 GMT
Toy Story 3 really does hinge on the furnace scene. The entire movie is this build up of Woody refusing to accept the cards he's been dealt and coming up with solutions time and time again. Then we get this scene where they're all out of options and they're about to accept this awful fate. Now being a Pixar movie, the toys were never going to die, but they needed to come up with the appropriate save. They absolutely nailed the 'kick-out' of the movie. It wasn't obvious, it wasn't contrived in the logic of the movie it was just perfect. They also correctly identified (much like 🤯 did) the secret sauce to a good movie 'kick-out' (or fake out) is a well timed call back. That was a deep cut from Toy Story, going all the way back to the original but it just made the moment so satisfying. Here's to The Little Green Men, the MVPs of Toy Story 3.
What's everyones thoughts on it being a retread of Toy Story 2?
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Post by thereallt on Nov 23, 2020 9:50:59 GMT
6.Saving Private Ryan 7.The Terminator 9.Bladerunner 11.City of God 13.Unforgiven 14.The Dirty Dozen 15.Raging Bull 16.Raiders of the Lost Ark 19.Schindler's List 20.The Princess Bride. 22.Blazing Saddles 23.Trading Places 26.Die Hard With a Vengeance 27.Logan 34.Training Day 40.Toy Story 43.Man on Fire 44.Return of the Jedi 45.Halloween 49.Taxi Driver 52.Tombstone 53.John Wick 54.Braveheart 55.Gladiator 57.The Avengers 69.Chinatown 72.Seven 73.Boogie Nights 74.Thor:Ragnarok 82.Casablance 84. Scarface 85.Heat 87.Full Metal Jacket 90.True Lies 98.The Sandlot 99.The Wizard of Oz 100.Big Trouble in Little China
Toy Story 3 is not only the perfect capstone to the Toy Story trilogy, it is also the single greatest film Pixar has ever done. Pixar could have easily phoned it in and still raked in tons of cash by making a formulaic sequel. Instead they bet the entire farm and risked everything to make something truly great and they knocked it out of the park.
Ladies and gentleman, the two greatest scenes in Pixar history for your viewing pleasure.
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Post by Big Pete on Nov 23, 2020 9:52:38 GMT
Both films have similar conflicts and character motivations. The difference is that Lotso's backstory has more in common with Jesse than the Prospector, so they used that as the antagonist's motivation. I actually think it's a cynical view that fails to mention the different settings which are central to the plot as well as the central theme of passing the torch to a younger generation. While we're on the subject, Toy Story 4 was a completely OK sequel. It's clearly a step down from the other three, but it did a decent job of justifying itself. I saw it as an admission that the ending of Toy Story 3 was too conveniently happy and there's no way Bonnie would appreciate Andy's toys as much. It was nice to see them touch on that and give Woody a more fitting farewell instead of constantly repeating the same awful cycle. If only the rest of the film had some polish to it, the antagonist in particular seems to get away with everything after forcefully stealing Woody's voice box. 2 is arguably better than the original. Jesse's backstory is more emotionally potent than anything in Toy Story 1, the movie does a good job of carrying an A and a B plot, it expands on the established characters giving them more personality which gave them room to have cartoon spin-offs and a sequel.
LT - Those two scenes really do feel like an end of an era for Pixar. While they've made a couple of good movies since, I still don't think they're of the calibre of peak Pixar.
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Post by Ness on Nov 23, 2020 14:09:29 GMT
Imagine if that's how they ended the series...
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Post by The Kid on Nov 23, 2020 14:41:01 GMT
I had Seven at 70 and TS3 at 71. Weird how that turned out with them going back to back.
But here’s the thing. I rewatched TS3 like a week ago with the kid SNF not only do I still stand with my original opinion that it’s the greatest Toy Story movie but I should also be ashamed of myself for ranking it so damn low.
Ir made me tear up AGAIN! I think TS3 is where it should be in the Rankings and could’ve even be higher if I gave it the respect it deserves.
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