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Post by UT on Nov 23, 2020 14:45:37 GMT
Both films have similar conflicts and character motivations. The difference is that Lotso's backstory has more in common with Jesse than the Prospector, so they used that as the antagonist's motivation. I actually think it's a cynical view that fails to mention the different settings which are central to the plot as well as the central theme of passing the torch to a younger generation. While we're on the subject, Toy Story 4 was a completely OK sequel. It's clearly a step down from the other three, but it did a decent job of justifying itself. I saw it as an admission that the ending of Toy Story 3 was too conveniently happy and there's no way Bonnie would appreciate Andy's toys as much. It was nice to see them touch on that and give Woody a more fitting farewell instead of constantly repeating the same awful cycle. If only the rest of the film had some polish to it, the antagonist in particular seems to get away with everything after forcefully stealing Woody's voice box. 2 is arguably better than the original. Jesse's backstory is more emotionally potent than anything in Toy Story 1, the movie does a good job of carrying an A and a B plot, it expands on the established characters giving them more personality which gave them room to have cartoon spin-offs and a sequel.
LT - Those two scenes really do feel like an end of an era for Pixar. While they've made a couple of good movies since, I still don't think they're of the calibre of peak Pixar.
I don't think 2 is better than the original , it's great and a key piece to the trilogy but there is something so special about the original and them building this world and characters in such an efficient and loving way. What they accomplish there in less than 90 minutes is more than alot of movies 120 minutes long fail to accomplish. I enjoyed TS4 for what it was , it was fun to go back to these characters and the new additions were good too. I just didn't have the same exact feel though , like it was it's own thing. And that's fine , the trilogy ends for me at 3 and 4 is the beginning of something different.
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Post by UT on Nov 23, 2020 14:55:54 GMT
And mikec had no faith in PW. I think Groundhog Day being this high was one of my biggest surprises making the list , I mean I think it might have made one of 99 lists before this. I watched it for that list too and it was good , I could see the charm of the movie and why people who grew up with it do hold it in such high regard. I just didn't have much more feeling than it was good and I'm happy I got around to seeing it but I don't think it'll ever be a favorite.
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Post by Big Pete on Nov 23, 2020 15:02:21 GMT
The original is still my favourite of the series as well. Admittedly I've watched it way more than any other film in the series, but I felt as the series went on they lost the dynamics that made the original so enjoyable. I found the characters more relatable because of their flaws, whereas the sequels focused less on that and more on how toys co-exist in the real world.
What makes two so good is how it compliments the original. So many sequels either try to take away from the original or they just retread old ground. Meanwhile you get to learn more about the world they inhabit, Al's Toy Barn, the show Woody was based on etc. I even like how the two plots compliment one another with the Woody stuff being very dramatic, while Al's Toy Barn is just a fun little caper and my favourite setting of the entire series.
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Post by 🤯 on Nov 23, 2020 15:13:29 GMT
I feel like I need to rewatch Groundhog Day again.
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Post by UT on Nov 23, 2020 15:15:30 GMT
The original is still my favourite of the series as well. Admittedly I've watched it way more than any other film in the series, but I felt as the series went on they lost the dynamics that made the original so enjoyable. I found the characters more relatable because of their flaws, whereas the sequels focused less on that and more on how toys co-exist in the real world. What makes two so good is how it compliments the original. So many sequels either try to take away from the original or they just retread old ground. Meanwhile you get to learn more about the world they inhabit, Al's Toy Barn, the show Woody was based on etc. I even like how the two plots compliment one another with the Woody stuff being very dramatic, while Al's Toy Barn is just a fun little caper and my favourite setting of the entire series. Two has its merits and highs for sure , there are things I love about it but I just don’t think it flows as well as the other two. I go back to the least amount. Though I think the caper B Story is great. I don’t want to spoil too much about the OG but I think it’s a near flawless film.
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Post by mikec on Nov 23, 2020 15:46:06 GMT
Woahhhhhhhhhh!
I didn’t expect Groundhog Day, my favorite movie of all time, to make the top 200. Top 50 is terrific. I’ll be back later with a bigger post about all the things I love about Groundhog Day but for now I’m impressed pw!
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Post by Emperor on Nov 23, 2020 16:56:09 GMT
1. Good Will Hunting 3. Training Day 4. Oldboy 6. Gladiator 8. Matchstick Men 11. Unforgiven 12. Mr. Smith Goes To Washington 14. Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid 15. Silver Linings Playbook 18. Throne of Blood 25. The Sting 27. Spirited Away 29. Logan 31. Parasite 32. Elf 37. Inside Out 38. The Apartment 39. The Green Mile 40. Beauty and the Beast 43. Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince 44. In Bruges 51. The Shining 53. The Prestige 55. Groundhog Day 60. Catch Me If You Can 61. Django Unchained 62. The Conjuring 69. Paranormal Activity 70. No Country For Old Men 72. Tombstone 84. Wayne's World 86. John Wick 87. Toy Story 3 88. Saw 96. Memento
Groundhog Day is incredible. An original way to tell a story, very funny, very charming, also dishes out the life lessons in a delightful way.
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Post by UT on Nov 23, 2020 17:07:09 GMT
I'm oddly not a Psycho fan , I am a fan of everything it inspired though and owe it a debt of gratitude for its influence on my favorite movies and genres.
It's everywhere you look in Halloween. In Nightmare on Elm Street. In Scream. Even partly in Friday the 13th , only a little more on the nose with the last one. Modern horror looks incredibly different if not for Psycho so I'll never trash it , I will just say it doesn't hold my attention like other horror movies or even the few other Hitchcock's Ive seen.
Not shocking to see it make the list rather high , it's up there with the most iconic films of all time with I think PW's most iconic scene of all time in the shower.
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Post by 🤯 on Nov 23, 2020 17:20:11 GMT
Never would've bothered with Psycho until seeing the movie Hitchcock. The making of Psycho was the primary plot driver of that movie, and I had no idea how interesting the making of was. So as a natural follow-on Wife & I watch Psycho to see what all the fuss was about. Glad we watched in that order, as I'm sure it gave us an even greater appreciation for Psycho. Even as a standalone movie though, totally solid in its own right. But knowing the historical context as well as its subsequent influence... Just puts it a notch above. That all said, super surprised to see PW rank Psycho so high. Was convinced most of PW held a similar opinion as UT on Hitchcock's seminal piece.
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Post by thereallt on Nov 23, 2020 17:33:12 GMT
I like Groundhog Day but 36 is WAAAAYY too high for it. For me it's not even HOF for Bill Murray. (Ghostbusters, Stripes. Kingpin, and Caddyshack)
Psycho is another ranked too highly. I get it's importance but IMO Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Halloween took what Psycho was trying to do and did it far better.
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Post by UT on Nov 23, 2020 17:48:28 GMT
I like Groundhog Day but 36 is WAAAAYY too high for it. For me it's not even HOF for Bill Murray. (Ghostbusters, Stripes. Kingpin, and Caddyshack) Psycho is another ranked too highly. I get it's importance but IMO Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Halloween took what Psycho was trying to do and did it far better. Oh Groundhog Day is definitely on there.
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Post by Shootist on Nov 23, 2020 17:57:11 GMT
8. The Shining (1980) 9. Rear Window (1954) 11. Apocalypse Now: Redux (2001) 12. 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) 15. Groundhog Day (1993) 17. Planes, Trains and Automobiles (1987) 19. The Breakfast Club (1985) 21. Clerks (1994) 24. Raiders Of The Lost Ark (1981) 25. A Nightmare On Elm Street (1984) 26. Rocky (1976) 29. Rocky IV (1985) 33. Raging Bull (1980) 34. Taxi Driver (1976) 35. Happy Gilmore (1996) 38. Fargo (1996) 39. Se7en (1995) 40. Back To The Future Part II (1989) 42. Terminator (1984) 45. Die Hard: With A Vengeance (1995) 46. Braveheart (1995) 47. Boogie Nights (1997) 48. The Silence Of The Lambs (1991) 54. Speed (1994) 56. Full Metal Jacket (1987) 59. Psycho (1960) 66. American Psycho (2000) 67. Falling Down (1993) 75. Kill Bill Vol.1 (2003) 78. Avengers: Endgame (2019) 79. Logan (2017) 81. Batman Begins (2005) 83. Scarface (1983) 86. Halloween (1978) 87. Apollo 13 (1995) 94. One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest (1975) 99. E.T.: The Extra Terrestrial (1982) 100. Vertigo (1958)
Groundhog Day was my second highest rated comedy and is a no brainer for Bill Murray's Mount Rushmore. I get more out of it after each viewing still after nearly 30 years since it's release. I'm a sucker for anything to do with manipulating time and having a story with so much depth is just icing on the cake. Murray is the perfect anchor to this film as he can play the self-centered dick in his sleep and did a great job of going the other way as he learned his lessons at the end.
I get some of the lukewarm responses to Psycho as later films were more shocking and moved at a faster clip. As a standalone it still hold's it's own and that ending keeps it's shock value. I couldn't imagine what audiences in 1960 thought. Hitchcock at the helm also provided an interesting film from a technical aspect with his editing choices and how he matched certain scenes with that incredible score.
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Post by Big Pete on Nov 23, 2020 18:20:36 GMT
Murray's HOF is interesting. Ghostbusters would certainly be a lock, but do you consider his earlier roles like Caddyshack and Tootsie even though he was a side character? Both served as his introduction to the masses on a cinematic level after his success on Saturday Night Live so they both have cases. Wedged in between there is Stripes, his first lead role and one of his most successful movies at the box office. It certainly out-rated Groundhog Day at the box office but with critics and audiences alike it's generally considered the lesser comedy. Groundhog Day stands out as his best received comedy and it's premise stands out more than Scrooged, Stripes and What About Bob.
Kingpin was an underrated movie, but I'm not sure if it's Hall of Fame worthy. It's just a matter of whether you can find room for two dramatic roles. Lost In Translation is celebrated as one of the best dramas of the 2000s with it's take on isolation and dealing with life in a foreign country. It's a movie that relies heavily on Murray's performance and Bill knocks it out of the park. It would have been something of a surprise if Bill hadn't shown some gravitas in Wes Anderson's quirky coming of age movie Rushmore where Bill plays this lost soul looking for some sense of purpose and direction in his middle age. It's just a matter of whether you consider Rushmore his most memorable role with his collaberations with Wes, or if you go with The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou where he's more central to the plot. I feel Rushmore made the bigger impact and is the movie most fans recognise Wes for (that or Grand Budapest Hotel).
Without really looking into it my take would be - Ghostbusters, Groundhog Day, Rushmore and Lost In Translation.
Space Jam would be an honorable mention.
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Post by Emperor on Nov 23, 2020 18:34:26 GMT
Personally I've never heard of Rushmore until reading that post. Wes Anderson to me is first and foremost Grand Budapest Hotel, a movie I had heard of long before I watched it.
Psycho is a film I desperately need to rewatch. Didn't think of much of it the first time I watched, but that was a very long time ago. Probably my first Hitchcock movie, and a lot of time has passed since then.
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Post by Big Pete on Nov 23, 2020 18:40:40 GMT
Psycho was my #27.
While it lost it's shock value a long time ago, the movie still works as a psychological thriller and has plenty of twists and turns through out. The first act almost seems like an entirely different Hitchcock movie altogether, but Alfred does such a wonderful job of creating tension that you're curious to see how it's going to all unravel. Something is going to go terribly wrong, it was just that Norman Bates was the last person we thought was going to be responsible. The acting is fantastic, especially between Janet Leigh and Anthony Perkins. Just the way their relationship changes through out and how the power dynamic between the two constantly shifts. It's really well supported by the shot composition, the lighting and cinematography.
While it's not as shocking, that whole shower scene is still wonderfully shot. The whole scene seems nightmarish with the fast cuts and the lighting on the murderer. Even watching the murderer flee the scene for a second is unsettling and really compels the viewer to see who it is, even though the answer is obvious.
Not all of it holds up. The detective murder is both fantastic and cheesy all in the same scene. Once again, the movie goes quiet as we slowly follow the detective up the stairs. Then the camera stays in place and the mother power walks into the scene and stabs the detective in a genuinely spooky scene. However, the fall down the stairs is just so cheesy looking. Hitchcock was always trying new techniques and sometimes you'd get poor shots like that. At least he had the good sense to have the mother confirm the kill to at least end the scene on a more serious note.
The ending also feels tacked on. Usually Hitchcock movies would just end and in the case of Vertigo it's perfect because the shot of Stewart standing on top of the bell tower is so powerful. It's so much better than the alternative ending where he's back at his lady's friend apartment listening to a news report of how they tracked down the murderer overseas etc. Here you get that tacked on ending with the detective explaining Norman's split personality. It was probably necessary for the time since criminal activity like this wasn't too well known but it's another area where the movie has just aged. In saying that, again they nail the actual perfect shot of the movie with Bates' crazed expression in the camera and the mother's narration.
Supposedly Psycho 2 was actually a pretty worthwhile follow up. It borrows a lot from Friday the 13th with all the gore but it does a pretty decent job of following up from Bates and looking into rehabilitation and the barriers that lead to re-offending.
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Post by 🤯 on Nov 23, 2020 18:45:57 GMT
I like Groundhog Day but 36 is WAAAAYY too high for it. For me it's not even HOF for Bill Murray. (Ghostbusters, Stripes. Kingpin, and Caddyshack) Psycho is another ranked too highly. I get it's importance but IMO Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Halloween took what Psycho was trying to do and did it far better. Oh Groundhog Day is definitely on there. Yeah... Snubbing Groundhog Day is just personal bias run amok. Definitely Ghostbusters, Groundhog Day, Lost in Translation, and... I dunno.
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Post by Big Pete on Nov 23, 2020 18:48:44 GMT
It's preserved in the National Film Registery for it's cultural significance. I'm surprised you haven't heard of it, it's one of the most well known independant movies and was a launching off point for Anderson.
I will point out that the Royal Tenenbaums has a good reputation as well, although I'm not sure if it's as strong as it once was. It received something of a boost when Arrested Development started gaining notoriety on DVD as something of an inspiration.
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Post by iron maiden on Nov 23, 2020 19:49:06 GMT
I'm 0-9 since Beauty and the Beast. Your guys' picks depress the hell out of me. When I think of favorite movies (for the most part) I think lighthearted, funny, re-watchable. Closest one for me out of the last 8 or 9 would be Groundhog's Day. Toy Story 1 probably would have made it somewhere too.
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Post by Emperor on Nov 23, 2020 20:20:59 GMT
We're all too serious for that iron maiden. My own value system makes it difficult for a run-of-the-mill comedy or action blockbuster to even approach my top 100. My absolute favourite movies are ones that are able to affect me on a deep emotional level. More often than not these are serious films, typically dramas. Most comedies don't fit that mold. Same with your typical blockbuster action film. They tend to be superficial in nature, so while they can be immensely entertaining, they don't have a deep impact on me because they're not supposed to. Those types of films will never be my top favourites. There are exceptions of course. The Apartment and Groundhog Day being two examples. These are first and foremost comedy films, but they go beyond just making me laugh and smile. They have something deep to say, a compelling narrative, and they have a level of warmth and humanity that goes way above your typical "hurr hurr" comedy like The Hangover or Dumb and Dumber (sorry Ness). I don't mean to disparage the likes of The Hangover and Dumb and Dumber - both of those films are great comedies- but for my personal ranking system they don't place very highly.
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Post by Lionheart on Nov 23, 2020 21:00:17 GMT
I am surprised you didn’t call out Step Brothers.
Anyway, this is the same argument I have historically made that people got pissed about like I was attacking comedies and saying they did not belong. Your post is a bit more succinct and friendly though.
I would like it ten times if I could.
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Post by Ness on Nov 23, 2020 21:13:42 GMT
I am surprised you didn’t call out Step Brothers. He's coming around. Plus once 🤯 disappears he's gonna be my new best friend and will learn to love it.
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Post by Lionheart on Nov 23, 2020 21:33:31 GMT
Here's one of those silly comedies doing Emperor's #1 movie better though:
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Post by mikec on Nov 23, 2020 22:04:57 GMT
I like Groundhog Day but 36 is WAAAAYY too high for it. For me it's not even HOF for Bill Murray. (Ghostbusters, Stripes. Kingpin, and Caddyshack) Psycho is another ranked too highly. I get it's importance but IMO Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Halloween took what Psycho was trying to do and did it far better. There’s no real argument for Kingpin over Groundhog Day. It’s a worse movie with less of a performance.
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Post by Emperor on Nov 23, 2020 22:32:45 GMT
I am surprised you didn’t call out Step Brothers. I wasn't calling out terrible comedies, I was calling out good comedies. Funny, but not deep. Here's one of those silly comedies doing Emperor's #1 movie better though. I've seen Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back but have no recollection of that scene. I like it. I imagine when I watched that, I hadn't seen Good Will Hunting. Don't think any Kevin Smith movies made my list, but I really like several of them. Probably all in the 100-250 range.
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Post by UT on Nov 23, 2020 22:46:42 GMT
I am surprised you didn’t call out Step Brothers. Anyway, this is the same argument I have historically made that people got pissed about like I was attacking comedies and saying they did not belong. Your post is a bit more succinct and friendly though. I would like it ten times if I could. Emperor said why they didn’t make his list , you bitched about it making the list if I remember correctly. Comedies have a place in cinema , even the dumb ones and I still think it’s much harder to made a universally beloved comedy because it’s subjective medium.
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Post by Lionheart on Nov 23, 2020 22:51:27 GMT
I think you are on to something. I am like the ultra bitchy version of Emperor.
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Post by Emperor on Nov 23, 2020 23:49:05 GMT
Comedies have a place in cinema , even the dumb ones and I still think it’s much harder to made a universally beloved comedy because it’s subjective medium. Yeah the subjectivity of comedy is a huge factor as well. I like Dumb and Dumber despite it having very similar humour to Step Brothers. My theory is it's because I first saw Dumb and Dumber when I was a kid and it amused me (and still does, to a lesser extent). Meanwhile I first saw Step Brothers around my 27th birthday. In an alternate universe where I watched Step Brothers as a kid and Dumb and Dumber as an adult, I would be hatin' all over Ness's favourite movie instead of his second favourite movie.
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Post by thereallt on Nov 24, 2020 2:58:35 GMT
I like Groundhog Day but 36 is WAAAAYY too high for it. For me it's not even HOF for Bill Murray. (Ghostbusters, Stripes. Kingpin, and Caddyshack) Psycho is another ranked too highly. I get it's importance but IMO Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Halloween took what Psycho was trying to do and did it far better. Oh Groundhog Day is definitely on there. That's why I said "for me" Bill Murray's Mt Rushmore is actually pretty flexible, the only absolute lock is Ghostbusters.
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Post by thereallt on Nov 24, 2020 3:00:26 GMT
I like Groundhog Day but 36 is WAAAAYY too high for it. For me it's not even HOF for Bill Murray. (Ghostbusters, Stripes. Kingpin, and Caddyshack) Psycho is another ranked too highly. I get it's importance but IMO Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Halloween took what Psycho was trying to do and did it far better. There’s no real argument for Kingpin over Groundhog Day. It’s a worse movie with less of a performance. Kingpin is WAY funnier than Groundhog Day. And Ernie McKracken is about as epic a performance as there is. Especially because Bill Murray ad-libbed much of it.
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Post by Baker on Nov 24, 2020 3:11:07 GMT
21. Groundhog Day- Pleased with myself for placing it so high. Groundhog Day is an amusing movie with a heart. Rewatchable. Quotable. Bill Murray is a hoot as Bill Murray Phil Connors. Got Sonny & Cher over with me. And Ned Ryerson is an absolute legend. Maybe I'll write more later.
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