I would take Weinstein in my mouth over coke anyday...

House of Black challenged Copeland for the title in Canada. They will not say who however.

Oh shit with The Beast and Rush now here, we should get them one on one soon.

Toni breaking out the Perfect Plex.

Apr 28, 2024 0:58:24 GMT c said:

Oh shit with The Beast and Rush now here, we should get them one on one soon.

Don't forget Rey Fenix returning, too.

So been posting in the wrong thread...

Oh well, pretty fucked up people were trashing a severely injured man in here!!!  It is unknown if Tony will be cleared to ever travel again.

Also would not hurt to let the people who trash AEW know what actually happens on an AEW show <.<

Thanks, you've done a real service. Those who watch and report back.. like The Marines... the few, the proud.

Salute.

It's a legitimate question..



It's too easy to just suggest there's nothing wrong, or say " tribalism " is to blame. But it's generally accepted that something needs to change.

Before anyone jumps the gun, and suggests it's just more piling on AEW, back in 2018/19 we were routinely having conversations about how to fix WWE. If anyone recalls, it's where my " dweebs " gimmick really got over, after I called almost the entire roster just that. 2019 was an especially bad year for WWE, anyone remember Roman Reigns being fed dog food... because he's the big dog? And really from 2014 onwards until 2022, WWE wasn't great, maybe not even good at times.

One comment on that ITR post suggests AEW is in it's " TNA spiral " and it's too late. Others simply want more depth to storytelling as a means to fix it. Another suggests, AEW benefited and found an audience because WWE at the time was terrible, to add to that suggestion, since WWE has turned it around, AEW has lost it's audience almost by default.

So called " game changers " Ospreay, Banks, Edge and Okada have had the opposite effect as reflected in ratings, proving it takes more than a fresh debut to maintain interest in the product.

A legitimate question requires an legitimate answer, how do you fix AEW?

What did the tweet say NATH45?

Firstly, I'd hand ROH off to somebody else. Between Fullham, the Jags and AEW Tony has far too much on his plate and ROH is really just AEW Dark by another name. I'd hand it off to somebody else with the idea of making it an alternative brand, to develop personalities and help create some buzz so when somebody is injured or we need a call-up you have somebody fresh.

That's my long term view because Pro Wrestling is a constantly evolving medium and you need to constantly think ahead 2-3 years.

Right now, I'd focus on Swerve and his presentation. How do we tell his story in an authentic way that helps make him larger than life and separates him from others. Let's flesh that out and just use the Christian feud as the backdrop, instead of making the Christian feud the forefront.

This current process of just signing new talents and putting belts on people you want to feature isn't enough to generate buzz. Invest in the characters and the personalities - think Timeless Toni Storm and the Acclaimed and how you could do that with the rest of the roster.

This is the third time AEW ran Winnipeg and got people saying OMG AEW cannot draw and is in a death spiral after. Seems the best start is to not run Winnipeg again.

Tony Khan reportedly changed the script for AEW Double or Nothing leaving "most people" with no idea what they were doing until an hour or so before the show; "it legitimately is more like 2019 WWE than it is 2019 AEW."

"Tony switched the script on yesterday's PPV multiple times during the afternoon. Most people, not just the wrestlers, have no idea what they're doing until the day of the show, and sometimes not until an hour or so before the show. People are flown to towns and given nothing to do, others are begged the day before the show to please get to the town so they can do something last-minute. He knows what he wants to do for PPVs (although this often changes), but as far as week-to-week TV, everything is booked show-to-show.

"For most people he's [Tony Khan] incredibly difficult to get hold of. In some ways, it legitimately is more like 2019 WWE than it is 2019 AEW, where he was much easier to get hold of, he had very complex long-term storytelling, many people had a good idea of what they were doing and where things were going, and often most of the following week's entire Dynamite card was booked and announced before the previous week's Dynamite had even ended (remember when Excalibur would run down two dozen matches in 30 seconds for the following week?). It's night and day the changes, and people who work for the company, in all roles from the wrestlers to the office, talk about it ALL THE TIME."

(Source: Bryan Alvarez | F4WOnline Board)

It's easy being removed from the actual company to suggest ways to improve it. And I know, there's a narrative I don't watch... but, I do. I just don't find it very exciting. 

This post is going to be all over the place... 



If I were to " fix it " I would first go against TK's rule of " not releasing talent " and release 2/3 of the roster and go on to completely shut down ROH. It's unnecessary and only exists to serve a bloated roster. I'd set my roster at approx. 40-45 individuals, max. And simply would stop hiring people just because they're good hands or buddies with someone. 

I would be first setting up an internal tiered system. And in no particular order establishing who my top 10 or so " acts " are. This can include tag teams and stables. And ensuring no matter what, these acts have purposeful storylines... yes, story.... lines, S T O R Y L I N ES. And just as importantly.... no weird breaks, or unintended sabbaticals or simply going MIA for months because " creative has nothing for you " when one arch ends, another begins. 

The Top 10 or so Acts : 

Adam Cole
The Acclaimed
Bullet Club Gold / Bang, Bang Gang
The House of Black
Blackpool Combat Club
Christian ( -minus a released Killswitch ) 
FTR
Kazuchika Okada
MJF
Death Triangle
Swerve
Samoa Joe
Will Ospreay


Marquee Names ( once in a blue moon programs ) : 

Edge
Bryan Danielson

There's also about 40 women employed by AEW, I need maybe 10 - and everyone one of them is gunning for either title. 

- Brit Baker
- Mercedes Moné
- Anna Jay
- Deonna Purrazzo
- Julia Hart
- Skye Blue
- Toni Storm w/Mariah May
- Kris Statlander
- Jamie Hayter
- Willow

The remaining 10 or so workers are bit players. But it doesn't necessarily mean they're sitting in catering, they're working the top guys, working TV, doing the jobs, filling the card, getting reps etc. These are guys like Cassidy, Trent, Hook, Perry, Sammy, Roddy, Garcia, etc. But it doesn't mean I'm not going to keep 20 or so guys on call, and use them on a casual basis if needed.. I am. But I'm certainly not paying them a salary to sit around and eat Subway. 

Dynamite and Collision and your Raws and Smackdowns, and Rampage is Heat. Nothing really changes there. 

Ok, it's time for some tough conversations. Engagement. Or better, social media engagement as a reflection of what the greater IWC is thinking. Not all " engagement " is good engagement. Everyone almost universally hates The Young Bucks and it's a fair call to suggest Jericho thinks the world is laughing with him as he taunts his detractors, but if social media is any indication, most fans, or potential fans can't stand him. The Bucks and Jericho are to move backstage and are to be rarely seen on TV. I'm putting these great minds to work backstage. I don't care what they've doing back there, they're just not on TV. 

Direction and purpose centred on Titles. Scarcity. The FTW Title = Cut. The Continental Title and The International and TV Championship = merged to become the secondary belt, simply The AEW International Championship. The Trios Titles = Cut. 

All that's left for the Men : 

- The AEW World Championship. 
- The AEW International Championship. 
- The AEW World Tag Team Championships. 

3 out of the current " 4 pillars " have failed. The New 4 Pillars are Swerve, Jay White, Will Ospreay and Okada. These 4 serve as your AEW Champion and contenders for the time being. Everything they do is about the title. And it's done with urgency. Swerve is your People's Champion. Will, an anti-hero. Jay White, the asshole heel. And Okada serving as an Undertaker type.. the most established of the group, the icon. It's an Attitude Era play. 

MJF moves into a move specialised role working more personal storyline driven angles, along with the likes of Mox, Christian, Danielson, Edge, PAC, Adam Cole, Black, Joe, Page.

The Tag Ranks are rounded out by FTR, The Acclaimed, Bullet Club, House of Black, Lucha Bros, etc. 

The creative teams can fill in the blanks, but it's about reducing the roster and increasing the focus on a core group of talents and maintaining consistency.

Instead of tightening up the booking it just seems like Tony really hates the concept of "less is more".

How come everyone who criticizes WWE and their booking goes on to repeat their same old mistakes but even worse? WCPW/Defiant comes to mind, and look where they are.

A good start would be making reduction their ethos for a little bit. You don't need this many shows, this many titles, this many workers.

I feel at times AEW doesn't just want to position themselves as just AEW, maybe they see themselves as the centre of a universe, almost like the number 1 territory in the old system.

And maybe that's ok, it's clearly where they excel in putting together these supercards.

And maybe perhaps that what they do, leave the so called Forbidden Door swinging and see who walks through it.

Jul 2, 2024 9:06:45 GMT NATH45 said:

I feel at times AEW doesn't just want to position themselves as just AEW, maybe they see themselves as the centre of a universe, almost like the number 1 territory in the old system.

And maybe that's ok, it's clearly where they excel in putting together these supercards.

And maybe perhaps that what they do, leave the so called Forbidden Door swinging and see who walks through it.

I'm no expert on their product but here's my vibe radar reading over 5 years that no one asked for:

The vision: A vintage-meets-modern alternative with classic Nitro/JCP/NWA vibes + a garnishing of strong style

The execution: Super indie pick me with a slightly better 1999 WCW product but half the drawing power + "notice me, Meltzer-son"

Tbf though I had fun watching Dynamite last night, it's just booked sometimes like a 14 yr. old who wants a short-term multitude of clicks on his new fan fic project (...couldn't be me)

Dave and Bryan expressing some clear concern over AEW contract status. They didn’t say it was in jeopardy, but they were sorrowful noting how down AEW has been overall.

Hence why TK had been loading up TV as of late.

Jul 12, 2024 23:58:31 GMT KJ said:

Dave and Bryan expressing some clear concern over AEW contract status. They didn’t say it was in jeopardy, but they were sorrowful noting how down AEW has been overall.

That actually makes me feel better. They get everything else wrong.

AEW about to sign for 5 years $1 billion.

Jul 13, 2024 2:48:14 GMT RT said:

Jul 12, 2024 23:58:31 GMT KJ said:

Dave and Bryan expressing some clear concern over AEW contract status. They didn’t say it was in jeopardy, but they were sorrowful noting how down AEW has been overall.

That actually makes me feel better. They get everything else wrong.

AEW about to sign for 5 years $1 billion.

That would be fantastic.

Tony will get a good deal, either from Max or someone else. It is weekly strike proof entertainment in the top five for two shows. There are very, very few sources of this for networks. People thinking AEW will not get a deal are crazy given NWA has a deal via CW.

Jul 13, 2024 5:26:34 GMT c said:

Tony will get a good deal, either from Max or someone else. It is weekly strike proof entertainment in the top five for two shows. There are very, very few sources of this for networks. People thinking AEW will not get a deal are crazy given NWA has a deal via CW.

I do t think anyone thinks he won’t get a deal.

The debate is if he is about to get a huge deal or not.

Jul 13, 2024 13:41:37 GMT jTjohncenaGOAT said:

Jul 13, 2024 5:26:34 GMT c said:

Tony will get a good deal, either from Max or someone else. It is weekly strike proof entertainment in the top five for two shows. There are very, very few sources of this for networks. People thinking AEW will not get a deal are crazy given NWA has a deal via CW.

I do t think anyone thinks he won’t get a deal.

The debate is if he is about to get a huge deal or not.

And that’s primarily because TK himself has set the bar extremely high for what the next deal will look like.

My gut is that they’ll be ok. Maybe they won’t get the monster deal they were after and Tony has to trim some fat, which wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world, but I think they’ll be ok. This ratings collapse couldn’t have come at a worse time though, and you know with Tony, we can’t read anything into the positive noise coming out from Tony or wrestling media when we know Tony is all bluster when it comes to anything coming out of AEW.

As for why they’re struggling, I’ve said this so many times I’m boring myself with it at this point, but it’s stars and stories. Mostly stars. That’s why WWE outlasts everyone, it’s the only promotion that has continuously done it for years. WCW is a perfect example of this. They had a hugely successful run in the 90s but who did they make into a star? Bill Goldberg, that’s it. Everyone else was poached from the competition or was already established from JCP. AEW are in the same position.

Tony has to figure this shit out. AEW had two easy, natural peaks. One when they started in protest at the continued bastardisation of WWE, and a second one when CM Punk returned in earnest. There isn’t another one of those freebies around the corner. He has to manufacture interest by creating star power and putting them in interesting scenarios. I’m not sure he can. Reversing a downward trend in wrestling is incredibly tough. You only have to look at how many years the WWE product was in a recession of popularity to understand that.

O'Shea Jackson Jr sums it up almost perfectly. Who? Ice Cube Jr..




I think they'll do just fine booking to their niche for now, but I wonder what happens when there's no one left to sign, and frankly when there's no one worth a damn to walk through that Forbidden Door.

AEW needs something, but to avoid it becoming a another thread where we all argue, I won't bring up the less than 700,000 Dynamite is doing these days... oops. But I think it's arrogant that anyone can simply accept the lead show is just going to be below a 700k product and that's ok.

Eventually the buck will need to stop, and a question will be ask by an executive, why are we spending money on a show that doesn't rate?

Maybe it doesn't happen any time soon, maybe the sweet heart deal that's happening is enough to keep the networks interested and everyone happy, but surely someone eventually applies the pressure on TK and demands to see an improvement.

And that improvement will be done when they take a little bit of influence from The WWE and lock in some deeper storytelling and move beyond these short term projects and reliance on gimmicky gimmicks, instead of long term character development. Jericho is a fine example, 13 different gimmicks in 5 years and everyone of them short term in the thinking. Including this current ridiculous one.

Vignettes we needs them.

Jul 13, 2024 15:51:45 GMT Todd said:

My gut is that they’ll be ok. Maybe they won’t get the monster deal they were after and Tony has to trim some fat, which wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world, but I think they’ll be ok. This ratings collapse couldn’t have come at a worse time though, and you know with Tony, we can’t read anything into the positive noise coming out from Tony or wrestling media when we know Tony is all bluster when it comes to anything coming out of AEW.

As for why they’re struggling, I’ve said this so many times I’m boring myself with it at this point, but it’s stars and stories. Mostly stars. That’s why WWE outlasts everyone, it’s the only promotion that has continuously done it for years. WCW is a perfect example of this. They had a hugely successful run in the 90s but who did they make into a star? Bill Goldberg, that’s it. Everyone else was poached from the competition or was already established from JCP. AEW are in the same position.

Tony has to figure this shit out. AEW had two easy, natural peaks. One when they started in protest at the continued bastardisation of WWE, and a second one when CM Punk returned in earnest. There isn’t another one of those freebies around the corner. He has to manufacture interest by creating star power and putting them in interesting scenarios. I’m not sure he can. Reversing a downward trend in wrestling is incredibly tough. You only have to look at how many years the WWE product was in a recession of popularity to understand that.

I would give wCw credit for DDP too.

Add Booker and Giant to that list. And maybe you could even suggest, Sting. But are we talking pre or post nWo WCW? I think there was much more happening for WCW in terms of building new stars pre-nWo. The later half of the 1990s, as highly discussed everywhere obviously didn't see a great deal until it was too late.

It's really a lesson in how quickly things can go south, WCW peaked and crashed over a 4 year period.

And there's a lot of similarities between how WCW ran and how AEW operates today, but that's a different thread.

But I'd argue in AEW's defence, there's MJF and Swerve who TK can point to and take credit for. And there's plenty of guys who have reached a notable level of success in AEW. Not everyone is going to Steve Austin or Hulk Hogan, you need your Eddie's and Benoit type guys. But in saying that, there's been countless guys come in from WWE who were stars or becoming stars, and we were told they weren't being used to their full potential over there, who have been non-events in AEW. Cesaro isn't any better off. He's probably getting paid more and working a fantastic schedule, but he ain't the superstar we were told he'd become in AEW. But, that's also another thread.

But what has it led to? Is Wednesday Night must see? Probably not.

Rambles over and out.

So Juice Robinson isn't allowed to sub for Jay White. Yet, when Adam Cole was injured, Joe was allowed to be Max's partner. Why strip BBG of the title when you can have Juice sub for Jay White in the first place? enforcing the Freebird rule?

Stuff like Ospreay v Danielson/MJF pulls me in. This is where they can excel as a #2 imo, giving more breadth of time to great matches and in-ring storytelling; I've always thought NJPW but more Americanized would be the right thread for them to needle. They certainly have the roster to do it.

The Blood & Guts match was everything I hate and think holds them back. Always doing the most which renders intended high spots to their biggest lowlights. Unprotected chair shots, funfetti barbwire, Playskool scissors, breaking match flow twice so we can see a heel saving another heel from a face trying to light him on fire-- Just stop.

I don't even hate deathmatch/hardcore wrestling, there are just better ways to do it that make more sense than whatever that train wreck was that I just watched.

The top end of the roster has some of the absolute best in the world. The bottom end of the roster has some of the absolute worst wrestlers in the world.

If the boy wonder fired half his roster and consolidated the rest into one brand/show, AEW would be amazing.

I'm genuinely looking forward to ALL IN, as they'll put together an all-star show, but there's absolutely no reason why they can't produce a lite version weekly for Dynamite/Collision given the availability of the talent.

Also, a smaller roster might mean they work more than once a month and stop getting hurt.