I am a huge fan of AEW, having seen every episode of Dynamite and Dark. I enjoy it more than WWE. I do not enjoy it as much as NJPW. But while I deem it worthy of viewing and there's consistently enough good matches to keep me on board, there are many serious downsides and annoying facets of it. I am creating this thread to see if everyone agrees with these issues and to generate discussion about them / see if anyone else has any other problems they think are worse. Almost all of these problems exist within WWE as well, either in the same form or worse.

Hopefully, we can create a powerful message about how a wrestling show ought to be run that can then never be read by anyone important enough for it to ever affect anything. But we'll carry that message with us in our hearts. Maybe we can get rid of all the anger in this thread, and then the main AEW thread will be a place of happiness and joy.

I'll start with the problems that have upset me most personally and work my way down from there:

Kenny Omega

"The Cleaner" has transformed into "The Boring Plank of Wood". His matches are still intense, though he's either burying someone or having ten minutes to work a match so it doesn't really matter. At least his unique and exciting character would keep me loving to see him week after week, but he has had...maybe five promos ever in the history of the company so far? And said almost nothing in the majority of those as the Bucks and Hangman do everything. He just seems totally fine with everything and barely cares, until suddenly freaking out for no reason. Which would be a cool gimmick...except nothing ever comes of it, there's no followup promos, and it just remains "that weird thing Omega did". This is just one superstar, but it upsets me because Omega is the wrestler of the year and the most exciting force that hyped up AEW as a whole. But he has barely delivered anything so far.

Hopefully this will change now with his new single run, but I wouldn't bet on it. He has had ample time to shine in numerous segments / feuds and done nothing with them promo-wise.

At least he had a couple great tag matches, but this problem kind of reflects a deeper problem within the company:

Complete Lack of Storytelling / Chris Jericho

Look, no one wants shitty TV writers like with WWE...or so we thought? Now I'm starting to realize that even that may be better than...nothing. I'm thinking what we really want is for them to just hire good TV writers. I know the focus of AEW is supposed to be more "sports-oriented" or so they claim but they aren't doing that anyway. Instead we just have promos like the weird musical nonsense last week. I was very excited for AEW because Jericho went on an interview and said he chose to join AEW because he was going to carry the company on his back and he had a bunch of good ideas and was excited to put them into practice after Vince ignored his ideas for so long. Well call me disappointed. Jericho has only done anything for his own storylines, or so it seems. Some of it has been pretty great...the Cassidy feud was solid, but that is not carrying a company. That's only caring about yourself and your own segments.

Also, Jericho not getting into shape disappoints me. I would even go so far as to say he did not deserve that big win over Tanahashi with the state he is in.

Bottom line...the only storylines are dumb, short, not followed up on, and usually dropped. The arcade machine is the latest example of stupid. Can we get a real story? The only effort that seems to be going into anything is the next world title match. In this regard, AEW is even worse than WWE because WWE at least has stories for several upper-card matches that they care about going on.

Schitavone

He drastically reduces my enjoyment of almost every match. His stupid fake excited yell that is blatantly disingenuous is enough to kill the mood of pretty much any situation. He doesn't even seem like a real person. He just enters "fake excited mode" whenever there's a big move or pin attempt and sounds like some old man trying to get his grandkids excited about a bird. He literally spoiled two matches in the TNT tournament with one line, accidentally stating the 2nd round match before the 1st round matches happened. He should absolutely be fired just for that one act alone. Absolutely fucking inexcusable. A complete disgrace. I hate him more than I have ever hated any wrestler or personality in any wrestling show ever by far.

Zero Buildup Consistency

AEW seems insanely bad at building up new talent. They'll bring a big guy in, immediately give him a big world title match with zero fuel to build him up beforehand, then forget about them and have nothing happen to them for months. Hager had a big fight with Moxley. He almost won. The buildup should have been before that, but even after would have been acceptable. But then what? Nothing. Joey was in two huge matches against Omega and Moxley. Almost won both of them. Already established as main event material. Then what? Jobber tag team. Brodie dominated Cody in the first example of brilliance that made him seem crazy powerful and awesome. Just kidding. He lost the title back immediately.

No Long-Term Feuds

Every feud has lasted like a month tops. Why does every single battle end with an immediate (usually face-winning) payoff? The challengers just line up for Moxley and he kills them one at a time. Where are the rematches? I think Kingston is the first to get one (although it made no sense because he got destroyed more than anyone in their first match). Where is the heel skullduggery and weaseling to keep cheating someone? No battle has lasted long enough for me to become very emotionally vested at all. Sabian . Havoc won a series of like four tag matches and then just lost to Omega/Hangman and that was it. The booker seems very short-sighted and only thinking about the immediate short-term. They basically wasted the buildup of them winning four matches for one okay fight, then threw them in the trash. And made all the teams they beat look bad too. Uno/Stu were kind of getting some buildup with a big win record and then they just got demolished by Omega/Hangman too. And had no followup either. Momentum gone.

WHY ARE THERE JOBBERS

I have always hated squash matches. I get it, you can build someone up without ruining someone else's thunder that is actually important at the time. But it doesn't work. I think this is fundamentally wrong. I skip all squash matches. They do absolutely nothing for me. Does anyone enjoy these or think it makes anyone look more credible in the slightest? Not to mention the horrible selection for the jobbers. Angelico & Evans are two of the absolute best wrestlers they have and they lose nearly every match. What is the point? SO MUCH TV/YT time is taken up by all of these squash matches. They could use that time to actually build up all of their talent and put on some much more entertaining matches and set up feuds. But they probably never will.

Match Length

For a company that has almost no promos, you would think we could get some decent-length matches. But they're all like 15 minutes tops, usually shorter. I guess they are just following a typical TV format, but it makes no sense considering the talent they have and how rare their PPV shows are. Why not provide some decent match times to showcase some actual wrestling?

Alright, well it is good to get that all out there and vent some. I am probably forgetting some other stuff that has really annoyed me. This is all very sad, especially since they have some amazing talent. Let me know what you guys all think.

Oh, and one for 🤯. Not enough Taz. Taz is fucking awesome. Team Taz is probably the best part of the show. His promos are great. His commentary is great. Fire Tony "Starbucks" Schitavone and put Taz in the booth all the time. Feature Team Taz in a real match every episode. Add more members to Team Taz.

Kenny omega is such a weirdo and i hate him. Someone here uses the word dweeb alot for aew and it describes him perfectly. Kenny is the creepy weirdo that is gonna get arrested for walking past a childrens playground. Cant handle his nerdy bullshit.

All your other criticisms are way off base,how dare you insult aew, i will respond with an essay in the next couple days

WHY ARE THERE JOBBERS
I love the occasional squash especially when every match feels long in this company. No one feels special if you are having 15-20 minute matches with everyone. I wasn't an Omega fan going into AEW and he has done little to change that. Sonny Kiss who is not that good in the ring at least is interesting. Seeing Omega squash him was the most interesting he seemed in AEW.

Moxley beating Nakazawa in seconds after he had the match that didn't count with Omega was also great. No problem with those since it tells people these are the people we want you to know are the stars.

Now as for all the dark jobbers, I hate it. It is stat padding. No other sport works like that. Unless you are signed with the company your wins and loses shouldn't count. Dark use to be just a few extra matches that didn't make the show which was nice. The current episode of dark is 2 hours and 21 minutes. You take the commercials from Raw and they probably are the same length.

I like Tony in spurts, just when they have him used as interviewing with Britt Baker or Young Bucks, he sort of gets stale. I prefer his commentary over Excalibur who goes PILE-DRIVAH and randomly is wearing a mask for whatever reason. Was it ever explained why he has a mask on? He is from CHIKARA so I know he has a lot of ties but him randomly bringing up some irrelevant feat of a wrestler from like 10 years ago is He tried so hard to explain some of those feats from Omega.

Oh and Alex Marvez sounds like he is being held for ransom every single time he interviews someone. So monotone, sounds so bored of working in AEW, he sounds so lethargic..... he wasn't even a popular NFL reporter. Not sure what his ties to the Khan family are but there is no other explanation. Amazing they tried to trot him as a PLAY BY PLAY caller to begin AEW's lifespan. More Dasha please. Dasha post WWE is full of life, seems to be loads of fun and is a ex wrestler. Very nice to look at too. Heck I would rock with Jenn Decker too over Marvez.

And less JUSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSTTTTTTTTTTTTINNNNN ROBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBerts please. Holy obnoxious moly, he was never this bad back in WWE. Just belching away at names isn't convincing anyone that this is some sort of big match feel. The Buffet family does it for the ARE YOU READY TO RUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMBBBBBBLE line but they don't go this crazy just announcer the names of the wrestlers. If Lil Bran Bran wants to be on TV, use her.

See I advocated on TWO females to get more time, if not featured weekly. You can do it AEW. You can do it!

Oct 28, 2020 4:47:01 GMT nazzer said:

Kenny omega is such a weirdo and i hate him. Someone here uses the word dweeb alot for aew and it describes him perfectly. Kenny is the creepy weirdo that is gonna get arrested for walking past a childrens playground. Cant handle his nerdy bullshit.

All your other criticisms are way off base,how dare you insult aew, i will respond with an essay in the next couple days

That would be me. And when I have some more time later, I will go nuts in this thread.

Firstly, the WWE right now isn't good either. I won't for a second criticise AEW without acknowledging WWE isn't great. WWE hasn't been great for 15 years, every time I try to pin-point a time WWE went bad, I see an image of Kenzo Suzuki and Renee Dupree in a Smackdown ring together. It's not their fault, but it highlighted how far removed from the Smackdown 6 this image was, in just a year or so. NXT on the other hand is good, mostly.  

Now, onto the list of complaints I have in regards to AEW. And very much in agreeance with Lionheart,


Kenny 'mother-fuckin 7 stars' Omega. 

The Best Bout Machine, The Murder Machine, The Cleaner.. Bullet Club's Arthur Herbert Fonzarelli. The man who made NJPW accessible to the world. And who the hell turned up to AEW? Not Kenny Omega, that's for sure. This guy is a dweeb. Words can't describe how they've mis-handled Omega. This man should have been treated and booked in myth and legend, the gaijin who conquered Japan FIRST. FIRST!! And this, AEW, this was his journey to the west. Talk about a marquee name. Talk about a franchise player. This is the sort of talent who only needs to lace up the boots once a month for a PPV - a special attraction, a featured presentation. The money. The Draw. And he should have treated like this from day 1. 

Chris Jericho. Nuff said. 

Remember when Aerosmith made a video game called Revolution X and apparently they represented the youth of America.. in 1994? Yeah, it's like that. It wouldn't be so bad if Jericho wasn't so hellbent on getting himself over. Or as he calls it, reinventing himself. As a voice, a personality, the occasional worker.. when a feud called for it, sure he's a fantastic asset. But as the focus of the show. Absolutely not. He built entire programs via satellite as the Painmaker in NJPW - where's that guy? 

There was an opportunity here, to put over new talent. Who has he put over? Who has he made a star? No one in that Inner Circle is better off today because of Chris Jericho. Moxley didn't need Jericho. MJF doesn't need Jericho. Put MJF in the ring with Moxley again and book MJF in such a way in that match he earns the respect of Moxley, and Mox can make MJF in one night if done correctly.

Allowing a bubbled up Chris Jericho to be Chris 'fucking' Jericho because it's a laugh, is a detriment to the company's credibility, as seen just a few weeks ago. Singing, dancing.. WTF? Is this a joke? As Lionheart said, there's a reason why Vince doesn't listen to your ideas. The same reason why he didn't listen to Damien Sandow's ideas or Cody's ideas. Because they're awful. 

It's like having Aldous Snow show up, when you're expecting a some what reasonable Russell Brand. You want to kill him after 30 minutes.  

Missed opportunities with The Rhodes Family. 

Cody delivered one of the most heart-wrenching promos I've ever seen "when all he wanted was his older brother." Emotion, passion, a tear in the eye of everyone who watched it... and where did it go? This was AEW's DIY moment.. ( Ciampa and Gargano sitting in the ring together at CWC ) this was the foundation for what could have been a story arch to carry the company for the next 12 months. If not more. Two brothers, the sons of Dusty Rhodes, a man who has a tag team tournament named in his honour. Two brothers unable to compete for that honour wanting to prove they are the best tag team in the world.. honouring their dead father.

And then, the turn.. I don't care who turns. Whether Cody turns on Dustin because he's sick of carrying dead weight, or Dustin turns on Cody because he doesn't need to be pitied by his younger, more successful brother. These guys would bleed all over the place tearing each other apart. What a fucking story. Part I : The Brotherhood, Part II : The break up, then part III closes the loop, when the Rhodes face a common threat. 18 months of booking right there. 

Sure, Cody's done his part putting MJF on the map, and done his best carrying that sack of shit yokel from The Wyatt Family. But, what a missed opportunity. 





Jon Moxley and his Monster of the Week booking. 

The 'Monster of the Week' tv trope is essentially that. A big bad presents itself and is defeated in a single episode. Brodie Lee, Lance Archer, Brian Cage, MJF.. the list goes on. Mox defeats an opponent, and the entire story arch is said and done within a matter of weeks. Eddie Kingston might be the only one to get a second title match with Mox. There's no long term development otherwise. Jon Moxley needs a perpetual rival as he struggles to engage an audience short term - it's why he worked so well against Rollins, but struggled through the routine feuds with other WWE superstars. He needs something to build on. 

That rival should be Kenny Omega. The polar opposite of Moxley. A natural athlete who conquered Japan becoming something of legend, while Moxley was struggling post-Shield. This could be Edge v Cena. A gritty, determined, unorthodox Moxley v  the super-elite, the best in the world - Kenny Omega.

The Dork Order - Christ. What a joke. All the stupid factions for that matter. The entire roster is full of jobbers and dweebs. 

Darby Allin - I'm with Jim Cornette. Here's a unique individual, who people seem to like. Albeit, small. But here is your Jeff Hardy. The alternative. And you've got him rolling down a ramp in a body bag with Steve O. Fuck me.  

Brandi Rhodes - AJ Lee said it best, talent isn't sexually transmitted.

Orange Cassidy - I don't get it. I do. But I don't. Talk about making your company look.. odd. Just fucking wrestle. Evolve from the stupid indie bullshit and take that natural charisma and use it. They are now.. finally. 

And just this general ironic, not ironic bullshit that comes along with particularly the Young Bucks. And this notion that if you don't like something AEW has done, you're not smart enough to understand the irony or the humour. Whatever. 


This company is not for me. 

Oct 28, 2020 9:50:53 GMT NATH45 said:

Kenny 'mother-fuckin 7 stars' Omega. 

The Best Bout Machine, The Murder Machine, The Cleaner.. Bullet Club's Arthur Herbert Fonzarelli. The man who made NJPW accessible to the world. And who the hell turned up to AEW? Not Kenny Omega, that's for sure. This guy is a dweeb. Words can't describe how they've mis-handled Omega. This man should have been treated and booked in myth and legend, the gaijin who conquered Japan FIRST. FIRST!! And this, AEW, this was his journey to the west. Talk about a marquee name. Talk about a franchise player. This is the sort of talent who only needs to lace up the boots once a month for a PPV - a special attraction, a featured presentation. The money. The Draw. And he should have treated like this from day 1. 

Love the idea of presenting Omega in this way but, to be frank, I don't think the best-wrestler-in-the-world Kenny Omega from New Japan Pro Wrestling could exist anywhere outside of Japan. His odd charisma and his goofiness works in Japan because it's so different. In America he just comes across as a...dweeb. In ring, he has mastered the art of working the NJPW style, but America is a completely different beast and he's not versatile enough to succeed in such a different environment. He's just a good worker in a sea of good workers. He doesn't stand out. Maybe he can impress in the current singles tourmament, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

Oct 28, 2020 9:50:53 GMT NATH45 said:

There was an opportunity here, to put over new talent. Who has he put over? Who has he made a star? No one in that Inner Circle is better off today because of Chris Jericho. Moxley didn't need Jericho. MJF doesn't need Jericho. Put MJF in the ring with Moxley again and book MJF in such a way in that match he earns the respect of Moxley, and Mox can make MJF in one night if done correctly.

Disagree. In the first few months of AEW he definitely put Sammy Guevara, Santana and Ortiz on the map. Sure, they would have been featured anyway, but as part of the Inner Circle they were special and had direction.

Thanks to Chris Jericho, Sammy Guevara was a prominent upper midcarder and one of AEW's highlights. The Sasha Banks incident ruined that. Santana and Ortiz were great at first, thanks to Jericho, but they ruined when Inner Circle became a bunch of goofballs, even cornier than Kenny Omega. I guess that's on Jericho too.

In recent months Chris Jericho has become too self-indulgent. The success of the throwaway "little bit of the bubbly" catchphrase got to his head, and now he thinks he has to be that Chris Jericho all the time. He used to be great at putting young talent over, now he's dragging them down with him into the muck. MJF is next, although MJF strikes me as another guy who can't control his worst impulses so it may have happened anyway.

Orange Cassidy was a goofball to begin with, so Jericho didn't lower Cassidy in that sense. I think he did elevate him as a credible wrestler who does have a serious side to his character.

Oct 28, 2020 4:07:18 GMT Lionheart said:

Match Length

For a company that has almost no promos, you would think we could get some decent-length matches. But they're all like 15 minutes tops, usually shorter. I guess they are just following a typical TV format, but it makes no sense considering the talent they have and how rare their PPV shows are. Why not provide some decent match times to showcase some actual wrestling?

Strong disagree. 15 minutes is more than enough time to showcase two wrestlers or two tag teams. Not every match on every show should try to be a 25 minute ***** epic. That should be saved for rare occasions. Most NJPW matches don't go above 15 minutes, even those very important G1 Climax block matches.

The problem is, most of the AEW roster try to cram a 25 minute epic into 15 minutes, especially the tag division. They just start the match, do one minute of token chain wrestling, and go right into a spammy finishing sequence. It's by no means an AEW problem, NXT has been doing this for years and I'm sure it's standard practice in the independents as well. That's just how wrestling is these days.

Ricky Starks vs Darby Allin from a recent Dynamite is a perfect example of a great TV match. Under 15 minutes, but it was still a great showcase of two great characters and great wrestlers without going excessive. Great workers are able to make the most of what time they have.

Also I don't know where you get this idea from that AEW has almost no promos.

Oct 28, 2020 4:07:18 GMT Lionheart said:

WHY ARE THERE JOBBERS

I have always hated squash matches. I get it, you can build someone up without ruining someone else's thunder that is actually important at the time. But it doesn't work. I think this is fundamentally wrong. I skip all squash matches. They do absolutely nothing for me. Does anyone enjoy these or think it makes anyone look more credible in the slightest? Not to mention the horrible selection for the jobbers. Angelico & Evans are two of the absolute best wrestlers they have and they lose nearly every match. What is the point? SO MUCH TV/YT time is taken up by all of these squash matches. They could use that time to actually build up all of their talent and put on some much more entertaining matches and set up feuds. But they probably never will.

Jobbers are good when used occasionally. I think the Dark format is good. More benefits than drawbacks. Nobody is forced to watch Dark, and I doubt many do except the diehard fans. Everyone knows Dynamite is where the real things happen. It hurts nobody, and it gives the lower card wrestlers (e.g. QT Marshall, Kip Sabian) experience in the ring on a TV (or YouTube) show since they rarely get to appear on Dynamite.

Regarding Moxley, and short-term feuds in general, I much prefer this approach to the WWE style of booking a feud for months on end, using convoluted and done-to-death booking methods to justify rematch upon rematch upon rematch. Moxley vanquishing a new challenger and immediately moving onto the next one is great on paper, even if the execution has not been ideal. When he beats guys like Brian Cage and Brodie Lee in one match and they go away, it makes the lengthier buildup like MJF had feel even more special.

NJPW does it perfectly - there's always long term rivalries simmering in the background that can pick up at any moment, but plenty of short term programs to keep things varied. I like NATH45 's proposal of having Moxley vs Omega be the top singles rivalry, the one that is simmering in the background.

The biggest issue is that they launched during a global pandemic when fans can't come to the show or to other shows so the roster can't get as many reps in and they can't scout talent as effectively as they could have.

It's also slowed the pacing of the promotion down. AEW have been keeping their powder dry for the live crowd so they can put together stellar cards to draw them back in. As a result, they've dragged a lot of feuds along and have been doing the bare minimum creatively.

Outside of that, this is what I consider their biggest issues.

1/Flow - Dynamite can be a drag to sit through, especially when the format is identical from week-to-week. There's a few issues at play here, but ultimately the biggest issue is that the show isn't cohesive and struggles to build anticipation which is a key ingredient of any sport.

2/Moments - One thing I will give the Jericho-MJF segment is that it was memorable. The show can really lack imagination or a big hook to get your invested. It just feels like they put together inoffensive shows.

3/Referees - In order for these matches to work, the referees have to be even more incompetant than NJPW and WWE officials combined. Some of them also legitimately suck at their jobs and show little to no concern for the performers.

4/Commentary - JR is just miserable at the commentary booth. You can tell he's searching for anything to praise on the show but there's little he can really hook onto. Schiavone is just happy to be on television again and accepted by the Pro Wrestling fraternity after being maligned for the dying days of Nitro. I also find his commentary disingenous, especially since he was an outspoken critic of lucha libre. Excalibur seems to be the only person in sync with what's going on, but they need to find him a suitable partner. His best colleague to date is Taz and Taz spends half the time making jokes on Dark.

5/Health and Safety - They need to put the hammer down and tell some of these wrestlers no absolutely not. Too many wrestlers have gotten hurt doing spots that could have easily been avoided. I get accidents happen and in the case of Matt Hardy it was really unfortunate, but stop the damn match.

6/Talent - There just isn't a lot of talent around. It isn't like AEW has the next The Rock or Brock Lesnar on their roster. It's going to take time for AEW to really make an impact on the industry and offer athletes a viable career. Especially now with the pandemic. I think the talent has been given every opportunity to succeed and this is their best effort.

With all that said, I think they've done a lot right and there was always going to be a learning process. I would like to see more growth from the company and more ambition but they're doing OK and I'm curious to follow along.

Although this is the AEW Problems thread and we are dishing a out a truckload of criticism, let's take into account that AEW has only been around as a fully-fledged promotion for a little over a year. The majority of the roster are young wrestlers who are still learning the craft. It will take some time to build their characters, their histories, their rivalries. Maybe in a year or two we can see these blossom into some great storylines. Only time will tell.

Big Pete, lack of talent isn't a fair criticism at all. How is AEW expected to get more star power than it already has? And I don't even think AEW is doing that badly on star power.

If we take a page from your star ratings thread, their biggest star is Chris Jericho. In his prime, he was an 8, maybe a 9, now he's 7 tops. Still, that's pretty good. Besides Jericho you have Kenny Omega, who was a 9 or 10 in Japan but is more like a 6 in AEW. Moxley and Cody are also 6s. Discounting Brock Lesnar who hasn't appeared since April, I'd say WWE's top guys right now are a 7. Reigns, McIntyre, Orton. AEW looks pretty good.

Big Pete, lack of talent isn't a fair criticism at all.

I wasn't blaming them, I just consider it a problem. Don't you agree?

I agree with a lot of those ratings by the by.

WWE hasn't been great for 15 years, every time I try to pin-point a time WWE went bad, I see an image of Kenzo Suzuki and Renee Dupree in a Smackdown ring together.

Unironically this has become one of my favourite eras because it was one of the few times where the WWE machine was forced to make new stars so you got to see them try and fail constantly. It was especially fun on the SD side where they would really try to make the most of what they had in Eddie, JBL, The Undertaker, Angle, Cena etc. while cycling through new acts like Dupree, Suzuki, Mordecai, Luther etc.

2011 may have set a new precedent. I actually like a lot of the roster but you were down to John Cena, Randy Orton, Mark Henry, Alberto Del Rio, Sheamus, Rey Mysterio, The Miz, Christian & R-Truth. Thank god CM Punk hit a home run when he did otherwise the WWE was well and truly in the toilet.

I didn't realise how much they needed Brock in 2012, but his return was so timely.

Oct 28, 2020 13:27:24 GMT Big Pete said:

Big Pete, lack of talent isn't a fair criticism at all.

I wasn't blaming them, I just consider it a problem. Don't you agree?

It's a problem with the wrestling industry as a whole and I don't think there is a solution. Pro-wrestling won't be 80s/90s popular ever again. So I don't think it's so relevant in an AEW specific thread.

Oct 28, 2020 14:23:30 GMT Emperor said:

Oct 28, 2020 13:27:24 GMT Big Pete said:

I wasn't blaming them, I just consider it a problem. Don't you agree?

It's a problem with the wrestling industry as a whole and I don't think there is a solution. Pro-wrestling won't be 80s/90s popular ever again. So I don't think it's so relevant in an AEW specific thread.

I disagree with that, WWE has plenty of talent on the roster the issue is that they're stifled by the machine. The few times the talent has been given some creative freedom, they've knocked it out of the park (eg. Tribal Chief Roman Reigns).

AEW provides these guys more opportunities, but they don't know what to do with it.

My point was that we're never going to see those heights again, which was a response to you mentioning that AEW doesn't have a Rock or Brock level star.

Roman Reigns is fantastic and an incredible talent, but he's still no Rock or Brock. AEW have some guys on Roman's talent level, or with the potential to be on his level in the future. PAC, MJF, Darby, Starks, maybe even Moxley.

Ah I see the confusion, I meant as prospects. Both Rock and Brock, as opposed to say Rock and Austin, were famous for can't miss prospects that everybody knew were going to be stars. AEW doesn't really have that type of prospect coming through whereas the WWE always have top prospects coming through or world class performers coming through.

It means that AEW has to make do with what they have and the inexperience can really shine through on television. Nobody is the finished product on television because they haven't been through the system or worked a house show loop - AEW doesn't do live events. It means the talent is green and they're throwing opportunities out to unlikely guys like Marko Stunt because there really isn't a lot of talent out there.

Oct 28, 2020 5:46:04 GMT X-zero said:

WHY ARE THERE JOBBERS
I love the occasional squash especially when every match feels long in this company. No one feels special if you are having 15-20 minute matches with everyone. I wasn't an Omega fan going into AEW and he has done little to change that. Sonny Kiss who is not that good in the ring at least is interesting. Seeing Omega squash him was the most interesting he seemed in AEW.

Moxley beating Nakazawa in seconds after he had the match that didn't count with Omega was also great. No problem with those since it tells people these are the people we want you to know are the stars.

Now as for all the dark jobbers, I hate it. It is stat padding. No other sport works like that. Unless you are signed with the company your wins and loses shouldn't count. Dark use to be just a few extra matches that didn't make the show which was nice. The current episode of dark is 2 hours and 21 minutes. You take the commercials from Raw and they probably are the same length.

You can make people feel special in far more effective ways. Just by having them win more matches or giving them more screen time or storylines. And that can happen during the same time being given to these squash matches. Why not do an even better job of accomplishing the same thing with that time?

Moxley beating Nakazawa is a special case and I think that was great as well. But wouldn't it have been even better if Nakazawa wasn't a jobber to begin with but an actually credible contender and still lost that fast to Moxley that one time?

Same with Sonny and Omega. That would have been a lot fucking cooler if Sonny was a legit competitor and got destroyed like that. I don't have problems with an occasional squash match when the situation calls for it in the rare case. I just hate the exclusive jobber position solely for the purpose of feeding people to worthless squash matches week after week. You're only as good as the opponent you beat.

I specifically find most of the squash matches AEW is throwing out don't make anyone feel special at all - because I already know every single "real" wrestler can and will easily defeat these fools. I also noted that dark used to be pretty nice with the extra match or two - now it has gotten longer but changed format to be almost entirely squash matches. The jobbers on Dynamite are bad, but Dark is much worse now.

Oct 28, 2020 6:19:22 GMT Blindy said:

I like Tony in spurts, just when they have him used as interviewing with Britt Baker or Young Bucks, he sort of gets stale. I prefer his commentary over Excalibur who goes PILE-DRIVAH and randomly is wearing a mask for whatever reason. Was it ever explained why he has a mask on? He is from CHIKARA so I know he has a lot of ties but him randomly bringing up some irrelevant feat of a wrestler from like 10 years ago is He tried so hard to explain some of those feats from Omega.

I actually do think Tony is pretty good at interviews. That is what he should be doing. The man doesn't belong anywhere near a commentary booth. When you have a commentator spoiling your match results on live television, you get that guy out of the booth. End of story. Though even without that, it is plain as day he has no actual excitement for the matches and brings nothing to the table. Half the time he literally just repeats what one of the other commentators just said but with a slightly different intonation for no reason when it doesn't even make sense.

I am not a fan of Excalibur either and am very confused as for why he was the one chosen for this job as well, but he is MILES above Tony and at least is genuinely excited. The mask is dumb and he's a total know-it-all which can be annoying, but there's no comparison at all between him and Tony. Excalibur is at least a real commentator.

Oct 28, 2020 6:19:22 GMT Blindy said:

Dasha post WWE is full of life, seems to be loads of fun and is a ex wrestler.

And less JUSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSTTTTTTTTTTTTINNNNN ROBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBerts please. Holy obnoxious moly, he was never this bad back in WWE. Just belching away at names isn't convincing anyone that this is some sort of big match feel.

Hard disagree on Dasha. She would also be a better commentator than Tony. But I dislike her announcing because she announces every wrestler in the same pitch/voice every single time...regardless of their aesthetic. "MISTEEEEER BRODIE LEEE!" with sunshine and rainbows does not work. That's not how his name needs to be said. Justin Roberts can get annoying with his exaggeration, yes, but at least he realizes the need to fit the character and presents a fitting announcement for everyone.

Oct 28, 2020 20:20:00 GMT Lionheart said:

You can make people feel special in far more effective ways. Just by having them win more matches or giving them more screen time or storylines. And that can happen during the same time being given to these squash matches. Why not do an even better job of accomplishing the same thing with that time?

That's what they are doing. There are plenty of people winning matches and plenty of storylines on Dynamite. But that's not the point of AEW Dark.

Oct 28, 2020 20:20:00 GMT Lionheart said:

Moxley beating Nakazawa is a special case and I think that was great as well. But wouldn't it have been even better if Nakazawa wasn't a jobber to begin with but an actually credible contender and still lost that fast to Moxley that one time?

Same with Sonny and Omega. That would have been a lot fucking cooler if Sonny was a legit competitor and got destroyed like that. I don't have problems with an occasional squash match when the situation calls for it in the rare case. I just hate the exclusive jobber position solely for the purpose of feeding people to worthless squash matches week after week. You're only as good as the opponent you beat.

If Nakazawa was a credible contender and Moxley beats him in two seconds, Nakazawa wouldn't be a credible contender. Pretty sure Sonny Kiss isn't a complete jabroni either. He got in the tournament after all. I know he was a substitute for Joey Janela, but they wouldn't put a jobber in his place. Kenny beats him in two seconds, Kiss looks like a jobber.

Your suggestion happened in WWE not too long ago. Kofi Kingston, WWE Champion for several months. Brock Lesnar, challenger. Bell rings. Kofi charges and goes for a jumping attack. Lesnar catches him. F5. Match over. There's your squash match with a credible opponent. Was it a good idea? Of course not. You've just made your former WWE Champion look like a joke. Even though Lesnar is booked like a god in general, many people have put up far better fights than Kofi did.

Emperor here's the thing about Kenny Omega not translating well with American audiences.

This is a company founded on the success of NJPW's BTE era, off the success of Bullet Club. AEW fans are NJPW fans. They know Omega.

Wrestling isn't real, the promoter controls the narrative. If you want Kenny Omega to be the best in the world, he's the best in the world. And you then book him as such.

Take Undertaker during the 2000s - he wasn't the best in the world, he wasn't the best worker on his brand but he was feared and respected because the booking maintained that mystic.

Or even better, there's a working example in WWE right now. They signed a unique worker from Japan. A huge star in NJPW. With some unique charisma. In NXT, Shinsuke Nakamura was a star. They harnessed his unique characteristics. On the main roster, he's a comedy tag team wrestler. Booking is the key regardless of quirks.

NATH45 that's fine, and I agree with you in principle, but I'm talking specifically about Kenny Omega in the ring.

You can book Kenny Omega in AEW exactly as you booked him in NJPW, he still wouldn't be as good. Kenny Omega worked in Japan because he's fantastic at working the Japanese style against Japanese opponents. You can't just copy and paste that to America, not unless you take the entire NJPW roster to AEW with you.

Granted, Omega did have that fantastic rivalry with PAC in AEW. But I don't think you can book Omega as the Okada-like champion in AEW and expect him to put on classic after classic with a mainly American roster in an American style. I could be wrong, but I don't think it would work. Aside from PAC, I can't think of a single great Omega singles match in AEW.

I really think that Kenny Omega only has himself to blame. You guys seem to think that he was booked poorly when in reality, he's one of the Executive VPs of the company and probably was given the freedom to do whatever he wanted with his time and ability. And this is what we got.

It seems like Omega busted his ass for years in NJPW to reach the top, then said "alright I did that, now to chill out," because I can't think of any other reason why he would be doing this. It's almost like he made himself available for a couple big feuds to fill time/put people over on PPVs, used his status with Adam Page to make the tag titles a big deal, and took the rest of the year off. Now he's ready to go for the title as a singles competitor because he feels like it.

...

I mostly agree with everything in this thread, but I'm surprised at the hate on Chris Jericho. I think you guys are missing the point. Everything you've said about his character is exactly why you're supposed to hate him in kayfabe. He is a heel, after all. And he's put people over in every feud he's done.

He was always going to be the first champion because of his star power and the need to get the company off the ground. Now that he's done that, I would be surprised to see him come out on top in any feud. He's playing the washed up rockstar role perfectly, but is still charismatic enough to keep the crowd entertained, and he's using his status to elevate The Inner Circle members and the people he's feuding with. The Inner Circle feuded with The Elite and came out looking like a million bucks, Jericho put over Orange Cassidy in their crazy matches, and now he's going to make a legitimate star out of MJF.

Oct 28, 2020 12:40:54 GMT Emperor said:

Strong disagree. 15 minutes is more than enough time to showcase two wrestlers or two tag teams. Not every match on every show should try to be a 25 minute ***** epic. That should be saved for rare occasions. Most NJPW matches don't go above 15 minutes, even those very important G1 Climax block matches.

The problem is, most of the AEW roster try to cram a 25 minute epic into 15 minutes, especially the tag division. They just start the match, do one minute of token chain wrestling, and go right into a spammy finishing sequence. It's by no means an AEW problem, NXT has been doing this for years and I'm sure it's standard practice in the independents as well. That's just how wrestling is these days.

Ricky Starks vs Darby Allin from a recent Dynamite is a perfect example of a great TV match. Under 15 minutes, but it was still a great showcase of two great characters and great wrestlers without going excessive. Great workers are able to make the most of what time they have.

I think you are right about this and that is a great example with the Starks/Darby match. But regardless, it is still a problem that can be fixed either by not cramming the matches or the matches being longer. Either way, I'm happy. I would lean towards the longer matches solution just because that is more potential for them to be even better.

Oct 28, 2020 12:40:54 GMT Emperor said:

Also I don't know where you get this idea from that AEW has almost no promos.

Aside from Jericho, MJF, and Moxely / Moxley opponents, what promos do they have? Hardy Party? Does that even count? It's not a real storyline or feud with anyone. Maybe I am mixing up the words promo and storyline. There's a lot of short backstage two sentence comment things, but what about the traditional "wrestler A comes out and talks and wrestler B interrupts and it builds up the feud"? That doesn't happen except with Moxley and Jericho. WWE does this too, where they only have time for these things with the "upper card" storylines. But like I said earlier, that's better than just two guys in the whole company.

Oct 28, 2020 12:40:54 GMT Emperor said:

Jobbers are good when used occasionally. I think the Dark format is good. More benefits than drawbacks. Nobody is forced to watch Dark, and I doubt many do except the diehard fans. Everyone knows Dynamite is where the real things happen. It hurts nobody, and it gives the lower card wrestlers (e.g. QT Marshall, Kip Sabian) experience in the ring on a TV (or YouTube) show since they rarely get to appear on Dynamite.

Regarding Moxley, and short-term feuds in general, I much prefer this approach to the WWE style of booking a feud for months on end, using convoluted and done-to-death booking methods to justify rematch upon rematch upon rematch. Moxley vanquishing a new challenger and immediately moving onto the next one is great on paper, even if the execution has not been ideal. When he beats guys like Brian Cage and Brodie Lee in one match and they go away, it makes the lengthier buildup like MJF had feel even more special.

NJPW does it perfectly - there's always long term rivalries simmering in the background that can pick up at any moment, but plenty of short term programs to keep things varied. I like NATH45 's proposal of having Moxley vs Omega be the top singles rivalry, the one that is simmering in the background.

Oct 28, 2020 20:37:01 GMT Emperor said:

Oct 28, 2020 20:20:00 GMT Lionheart said:

You can make people feel special in far more effective ways. Just by having them win more matches or giving them more screen time or storylines. And that can happen during the same time being given to these squash matches. Why not do an even better job of accomplishing the same thing with that time?

That's what they are doing. There are plenty of people winning matches and plenty of storylines on Dynamite. But that's not the point of AEW Dark.

Of course Dark has more benefits than drawbacks. I didn't say it was completely worthless or would be better not existing, but that's a pretty damn low bar to set. Why do you even care if it's "not the point" if it doesn't entertain you in the slightest? Obviously we would both rather have something entertaining or something that helps improve the company overall further. You don't even watch Dark, so obviously it could be better and be made into something that you actually want to watch. The main point of the show is to be watched by fans so I don't know why you would take a stance against this.

It seems like you are just taking a "that's just how it's done" mentality as if it's okay because it's standard, despite there being much better options. You could give QT Marshall and Kip Sabian more ring-experience in real matches that aren't pointless squash matches.

I view it like a movie. You only have so much screentime to show to fans, so you damn well better make sure every minute counts in the most meaningful way possible. It seems like they just don't care. Easy filler bullshit to throw in a bunch of squash matches. That may just be how it is, but of course I'm upset by it when they could be actually contributing to the company in that time. I expect the people providing entertainment to actually care about the content they are providing being as entertaining as possible. I expected better of AEW, not just the same old nonsense.

Oct 28, 2020 20:37:01 GMT Emperor said:

If Nakazawa was a credible contender and Moxley beats him in two seconds, Nakazawa wouldn't be a credible contender. Pretty sure Sonny Kiss isn't a complete jabroni either. He got in the tournament after all. I know he was a substitute for Joey Janela, but they wouldn't put a jobber in his place. Kenny beats him in two seconds, Kiss looks like a jobber.

Your suggestion happened in WWE not too long ago. Kofi Kingston, WWE Champion for several months. Brock Lesnar, challenger. Bell rings. Kofi charges and goes for a jumping attack. Lesnar catches him. F5. Match over. There's your squash match with a credible opponent. Was it a good idea? Of course not. You've just made your former WWE Champion look like a joke. Even though Lesnar is booked like a god in general, many people have put up far better fights than Kofi did.

If you think that a contender that was actually established and well-known to be a credible threat and a dangerous foe would suddenly not be credible just because he lost one match quickly, I don't think you are fully thinking it through at all. That is just a facetious argument. Especially if they immediately booked him as still being credible after. Like NATH45 said, booking plays a huge part in everything.

Sonny Kiss not being a "complete jabroni" is just a think veil placed over the top of him and some others to make you think they are credible and not complete jabronis, but anyone actually watching the show can tell it's complete nonsense with the reality of how they are treated. They will still lose to any real wrestler that comes around without a doubt. Sure they tried, but that just goes to show how poor they are at building up legitimate credibility because their booking is terrible.

Kofi being a former champion and losing quickly is a bit of an extreme example. Just because that was a bad idea in that case doesn't mean no credible wrestler can ever lose a match without it being dumb. Plus I don't see anything wrong with Kofi losing immediately if he got plenty of promo time after, with him reflecting on the loss and how frustrated he is that he slipped up with a mistake right out of the gate and it cost him big. He could then have a series of impressive matches where he builds himself back up to challenge him again. That probably didn't happen though because WWE booking also sucks and they probably just made him look like shit for no reason without any followup.

Oct 28, 2020 20:43:32 GMT Emperor said:

NATH45 that's fine, and I agree with you in principle, but I'm talking specifically about Kenny Omega in the ring.

You can book Kenny Omega in AEW exactly as you booked him in NJPW, he still wouldn't be as good. Kenny Omega worked in Japan because he's fantastic at working the Japanese style against Japanese opponents. You can't just copy and paste that to America, not unless you take the entire NJPW roster to AEW with you.

Granted, Omega did have that fantastic rivalry with PAC in AEW. But I don't think you can book Omega as the Okada-like champion in AEW and expect him to put on classic after classic with a mainly American roster in an American style. I could be wrong, but I don't think it would work. Aside from PAC, I can't think of a single great Omega singles match in AEW.

I absolutely disagree. The NJPW style is indeed its own thing of course, but I don't buy that it's completely incompatible with the AEW roster. You don't need everyone to wrestle the same style. The mix of styles is actually something that can make matches a lot more exciting. The Pac rivalry is a good example of this. The problem isn't Omega being in AEW. It's him just not having many singles matches yet. It's booking. Of course you can't think of other great Omega singles matches when he has had almost no other singles matches except for, what I'm complaining about as a problem in the rest of this post, dumb squash matches that no one cares about. It seems like you really have the same complaint as me. He could be having these amazing singles matches on AEW dark and be coming off like the champion he was in NJPW.

And, in fact, Dark started off like that. His match with Joey on early Dark was epic and exactly what it sounds like you want to see more of.

Oct 28, 2020 22:01:32 GMT RT said:

I really think that Kenny Omega only has himself to blame. You guys seem to think that he was booked poorly when in reality, he's one of the Executive VPs of the company and probably was given the freedom to do whatever he wanted with his time and ability. And this is what we got.

It seems like Omega busted his ass for years in NJPW to reach the top, then said "alright I did that, now to chill out," because I can't think of any other reason why he would be doing this. It's almost like he made himself available for a couple big feuds to fill time/put people over on PPVs, used his status with Adam Page to make the tag titles a big deal, and took the rest of the year off. Now he's ready to go for the title as a singles competitor because he feels like it.

...

I mostly agree with everything in this thread, but I'm surprised at the hate on Chris Jericho. I think you guys are missing the point. Everything you've said about his character is exactly why you're supposed to hate him in kayfabe. He is a heel, after all. And he's put people over in every feud he's done.

He was always going to be the first champion because of his star power and the need to get the company off the ground. Now that he's done that, I would be surprised to see him come out on top in any feud. He's playing the washed up rockstar role perfectly, but is still charismatic enough to keep the crowd entertained, and he's using his status to elevate The Inner Circle members and the people he's feuding with. The Inner Circle feuded with The Elite and came out looking like a million bucks, Jericho put over Orange Cassidy in their crazy matches, and now he's going to make a legitimate star out of MJF.

I absolutely agree about what you are saying with Omega. Those were my thoughts as well, though I didn't want to actually make the assumption fully and state it. Kind of seems like he just phoned out when he got to AEW because he was tired and wanted to take it easy.

But I think the exact same thing is true of Jericho.

As a character and for himself / those immediately around him on the show he has done fantastic. And I have loved all of it. Jericho is Jericho and kicking ass with hilarious segments while still being magnanimous in putting over a bunch of other guys like the great guy he is. The problem is I just expected more of him. More than I would expect of anyone else. I know he's very intelligent and doing all these great things, so when he said he was going to carry the company on his back...I believed him and thought he was going to do more than that and help shape the whole company. It doesn't seem like he has done that at all. I don't know what goes on behind-the-scenes, but most of what is happening in AEW is certainly lacking the Jericho magic. I'm also disappointed that he's out of shape and not giving it his all in that regard.

Don't get me wrong. He has done his part for the industry and I don't think he owes anything to anyone to have to do more. I just thought he was going to.

Toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much Cody.

Oct 28, 2020 22:01:32 GMT RT said:

I really think that Kenny Omega only has himself to blame. You guys seem to think that he was booked poorly when in reality, he's one of the Executive VPs of the company and probably was given the freedom to do whatever he wanted with his time and ability. And this is what we got.

I thought Kenny Omega only booked the Women's Division? Even if he does book himself, whether he booked himself poorly or was booked poorly by someone else, it's the same thing.

Oct 28, 2020 23:31:27 GMT Emperor said:

Oct 28, 2020 22:01:32 GMT RT said:

I really think that Kenny Omega only has himself to blame. You guys seem to think that he was booked poorly when in reality, he's one of the Executive VPs of the company and probably was given the freedom to do whatever he wanted with his time and ability. And this is what we got.

I thought Kenny Omega only booked the Women's Division? Even if he does book himself, whether he booked himself poorly or was booked poorly by someone else, it's the same thing.

If Kenny books the women’s division...there’s even more reason to be upset with him.

I doubt he has absolutely no say in what he does and couldn’t influence or otherwise insist to book himself better though.

Who does do the booking? Cody?

Oct 28, 2020 22:52:57 GMT Lionheart said:

Aside from Jericho, MJF, and Moxely / Moxley opponents, what promos do they have? Hardy Party? Does that even count? It's not a real storyline or feud with anyone. Maybe I am mixing up the words promo and storyline. There's a lot of short backstage two sentence comment things, but what about the traditional "wrestler A comes out and talks and wrestler B interrupts and it builds up the feud"? That doesn't happen except with Moxley and Jericho. WWE does this too, where they only have time for these things with the "upper card" storylines. But like I said earlier, that's better than just two guys in the whole company.

When I say promo I mean any segment where wrestlers are talking, whether it's a 2 minute backstage promo or a 15 minute segment in the ring. AEW has a lot more of the former, and I think that's a good thing. I am of the belief that promos should, as a rule, not exceed five minutes.

There are very very few wrestlers who can consistently cut good long promos. After all, they are wrestlers, not actors. Nobody in AEW can do that. Jon Moxley can't, and he doesn't. He cuts 2 minute promos backstage and they are all fantastic. Ditto with PAC. MJF had his long presidential candidate shpiel in his build to his match with Moxley. While I like the concept, the segments were far too long-winded for my liking. The in-ring segment between MJF and Jericho a couple of weeks ago was even worse. Endless rambling, taking forever to get to the point.

I like my wrestling to be closer to sports than sports-entertainment, so the "traditional" promo you talk about does not appeal to me. I want to watch wrestling, not a talk show.

Oct 28, 2020 22:52:57 GMT Lionheart said:

Of course Dark has more benefits than drawbacks. I didn't say it was completely worthless or would be better not existing, but that's a pretty damn low bar to set. Why do you even care if it's "not the point" if it doesn't entertain you in the slightest? Obviously we would both rather have something entertaining or something that helps improve the company overall further. You don't even watch Dark, so obviously it could be better and be made into something that you actually want to watch. The main point of the show is to be watched by fans so I don't know why you would take a stance against this.

It seems like you are just taking a "that's just how it's done" mentality as if it's okay because it's standard, despite there being much better options. You could give QT Marshall and Kip Sabian more ring-experience in real matches that aren't pointless squash matches.

It sounds like you're proposing that Dark should act as a second Dynamite. That's great in principle, but I think it's counterproductive in terms of attracting fans. If you have four hours of mandatory content instead of two hours, casual fans will stop paying attention because there's far too much to keep up with and it's not worth the effort. I'm willing to tune into Dynamite most weeks because it's only two hours. Turn that up to four hours across two shows and I'm out.

AEW Dark has its place as a semi-developmental show. No storyline development or significant matches, so you lose nothing by not watching, but it is freely available for those diehard fans who want to watch it. The goal isn't to put on amazing wrestling or have storylines.

That said, I disagree with the 100% squash matches format, I'd have it more like a WWE Main Event (does that still exist?) where you have maybe one or two squashes and then lower card guys wrestling in more competitive 5-10 minute matches.

Oct 28, 2020 22:52:57 GMT Lionheart said:

If you think that a contender that was actually established and well-known to be a credible threat and a dangerous foe would suddenly not be credible just because he lost one match quickly, I don't think you are fully thinking it through at all. That is just a facetious argument. Especially if they immediately booked him as still being credible after. Like NATH45 said, booking plays a huge part in everything.

Sure, it depends on booking, but the booking has to be really good to be able to pull that off and it's not something you can trot out every week. As you say yourself, AEW has hardly proven to be a promotion with great booking, so let's keep it simple for now and keep some real jobbers for our squash matches instead of hurting wrestlers they are trying to build up.

Oct 28, 2020 22:52:57 GMT Lionheart said:

The problem isn't Omega being in AEW. It's him just not having many singles matches yet. It's booking. Of course you can't think of other great Omega singles matches when he has had almost no other singles matches except for, what I'm complaining about as a problem in the rest of this post, dumb squash matches that no one cares about. It seems like you really have the same complaint as me. He could be having these amazing singles matches on AEW dark and be coming off like the champion he was in NJPW.

His style has clearly changed in AEW, and his run in the tag team division has made me lose faith that Omega is capable of being "The Best Bout Machine" in AEW. I'm more than happy to be proven wrong in this latest singles run.

Oct 28, 2020 23:31:27 GMT Emperor said:

Oct 28, 2020 22:01:32 GMT RT said:

I really think that Kenny Omega only has himself to blame. You guys seem to think that he was booked poorly when in reality, he's one of the Executive VPs of the company and probably was given the freedom to do whatever he wanted with his time and ability. And this is what we got.

I thought Kenny Omega only booked the Women's Division? Even if he does book himself, whether he booked himself poorly or was booked poorly by someone else, it's the same thing.

Right, I agree. The way I was reading the thread though seemed to be putting the blame on AEW's booking, when it seems more plausible that Omega is to blame because he either books himself, or is fine with the shitty booking they've given him since he came back to North America.

And honestly, it hasn't been all bad. His feud with PAC was good, he had a good little feud and match with Moxley, using the tag titles to both elevate the belts and give him and Page a reason to break up and eventually feud was fine...but it hasn't been nearly enough. I'm optimistic for his future though. I think this tournament is a good start and I have to assume the next several months will be kind to him. I hope, anyway.

Oct 28, 2020 23:38:07 GMT Lionheart said:

Oct 28, 2020 23:31:27 GMT Emperor said:

I thought Kenny Omega only booked the Women's Division? Even if he does book himself, whether he booked himself poorly or was booked poorly by someone else, it's the same thing.

If Kenny books the women’s division...there’s even more reason to be upset with him.

My god, if this is true, then yes. The entire women's division is a mess. Something that needs to be highlighted in this thread.

Also, thank you bodyslam for pointing out what I forgot to in my last post. I was going to and completely forgot.

Cody using every opportunity to either whine about the WWE, perform self-fellatio, or put himself over is horrible. I don't understand why the crowd loves him so much. He should be getting booed left and right, and if I didn't know any better I would think that he was the most failed heel attempt in modern history.

But that doesn't seem to be the case. He's probably the most genuine and transparent character they have on their roster, but it's all so lame. From the night he used a sledgehammer on a throne of maltese crosses to the night he crowned himself the TNT Champion...THEN DID IT A SECOND TIME...by beating Brodie Lee, who they've been trying to get over as a monster...fuck me. Terrible.

I also do think much of the criticism comes down to the pandemic, and it creates two problems:

 - Wanting to save the big moments for when crowds come back. AEW should just get over this; crowds aren't coming back in real numbers for at minimum half a year, if ever. It depends on the creation of a vaccine (which is still a big IF), effectiveness of said vaccine, distribution of said vaccine (you won't have enough for everyone in the world at first), and whether people trust being in large crowds again. Oddly, WWE has been ahead of AEW as far as coping; they've moved to the cinematic matches and the HIAC Roman/Jey match depended on a large amount of in-ring chatter which is tricky to do with real crowd noise, plus the people in the cheap seats can't hear.

 - The roster and either not being able to travel/medically compromised and should not be wrestling. Where's PAC? Where's Emi Sakura or Riho? WWE, for better or worse (worse) can highly suggest their independent contractors show up to work.

Other than that, sorta get the Kenny criticism but also I assume the plan for the first year to 18 months was to put Omega/Bucks/Rhodes on the back burner. If they'd all won the titles in the beginning we'd be rolling our eyes at them for creating a promotion just to make themselves champs and beat everyone.