I wasn't sure if this deserved it's own thread but the refs of AEW have a terrible tendency to overshadow the wrestlers in the ring, I am not sure how or why this is happening but this has to stop. You don't see NFL refs going crazy mannerisms during a play or when announcing a flag.

I have been angry when Joe West or any of these umpires try and be flamboyant with their strike 3 calls as well admittedly too. This is on a whole other level. Almost every single week though, whether it's Knox or Aubrey. There's having fun and pride of what your doing and then there's just overacting and getting in the middle of everything.

May 21, 2022 0:03:48 GMT Michinokudriver said:

Probably gonna do a terrible job of articulating this, but I think AEW is hitting the point where it needs dedicated bookers/some sort of creative who aren't part of the locker room.

I'm thinking of the backstage stories where talent basically has to pitch their own angles and for the most part wrestlers seem to be in charge of their own careers which is great and awesome and all, but there's also a risk of stagnation. Jericho is happy to reinvent himself every like four years but Adam Cole is still doing his BayBay schtick (didn't he have that pre-NXT?) and for being one of the young developing Pillars Jungle Boy should have grown more than he has IMO.

I dunno if I really like super-Karen Bayley but for better or worse you had an outside opinion telling her when it was time to switch up and try something new. She probably would have been perfectly content being Hugger Bayley forever but hard to say that would have been best for her career. Sometimes you need someone to shake you out of your rut.

You're right. It has grown to the point it can't be, "by the boys, for the boys" sort of creative anymore. This isn't an independent.  

And for all the conversations, we've all day about WWE " lack of " creative - here was an opportunity for someone as talented as Adam Cole to really grow. Yet, he's still doing the exact same thing he was doing in NXT.. what 4 years ago. 

The issue with not growing the lesser established talent into stars - through character development - they will be reliant on guys coming from WWE/NXT/NJPW, or gimmick based shows like Forbidden Door to keep fans invested. 

If Wardlow isn't World Champion in 12 months time, and the biggest name in the company - they've proven my point. 

May 21, 2022 1:56:19 GMT Blindy said:

I wasn't sure if this deserved it's own thread but the refs of AEW have a terrible tendency to overshadow the wrestlers in the ring, I am not sure how or why this is happening but this has to stop. You don't see NFL refs going crazy mannerisms during a play or when announcing a flag.

I have been angry when Joe West or any of these umpires try and be flamboyant with their strike 3 calls as well admittedly too. This is on a whole other level. Almost every single week though, whether it's Knox or Aubrey. There's having fun and pride of what your doing and then there's just overacting and getting in the middle of everything.

I think this is silly and someone trying to find a problem where there isn’t one. I’ve never once noticed the referees when I wasn’t supposed to.

RT , really? She has become a meme a number of times over. 

May 21, 2022 3:57:51 GMT NATH45 said:

May 21, 2022 0:03:48 GMT Michinokudriver said:

Probably gonna do a terrible job of articulating this, but I think AEW is hitting the point where it needs dedicated bookers/some sort of creative who aren't part of the locker room.

I'm thinking of the backstage stories where talent basically has to pitch their own angles and for the most part wrestlers seem to be in charge of their own careers which is great and awesome and all, but there's also a risk of stagnation. Jericho is happy to reinvent himself every like four years but Adam Cole is still doing his BayBay schtick (didn't he have that pre-NXT?) and for being one of the young developing Pillars Jungle Boy should have grown more than he has IMO.

I dunno if I really like super-Karen Bayley but for better or worse you had an outside opinion telling her when it was time to switch up and try something new. She probably would have been perfectly content being Hugger Bayley forever but hard to say that would have been best for her career. Sometimes you need someone to shake you out of your rut.

You're right. It has grown to the point it can't be, "by the boys, for the boys" sort of creative anymore. This isn't an independent.  

And for all the conversations, we've all day about WWE " lack of " creative - here was an opportunity for someone as talented as Adam Cole to really grow. Yet, he's still doing the exact same thing he was doing in NXT.. what 4 years ago. 

The issue with not growing the lesser established talent into stars - through character development - they will be reliant on guys coming from WWE/NXT/NJPW, or gimmick based shows like Forbidden Door to keep fans invested. 

If Wardlow isn't World Champion in 12 months time, and the biggest name in the company - they've proven my point. 

Very good point. I agree completely. If they don’t strike while the iron is hot with Wardlow I’ll be shocked.

I’m really not impressed with their booking lately. Pretty much every title feels stagnant heading into Double or Nothing.

-Punk beating Page feels like a foregone conclusion and the build has been awful.
-Thunder Rosa has been the worst Women’s champ so far and it isn’t her fault at all. I’m so disappointed she’s an afterthought.
-Jade Cargill has done ok but does anyone actually think Anna Jay will beat her?
-I actually forgot that Jungle Express were still the tag champs.
-The TNT title needs to be vacated and a tournament needs to happen. They need to get Sammy and ATT as far away from that belt as possible.

Make DoN a complete reboot and start new feuds. Everything is awful right now. Let Punk win and do Summer of Punk v3.0, give Rosa something to do, let Statlander win The Owen and feud with Cargill, put the tag titles on Lee/Swerve because they deserve it and are actually entertaining, and just scrap everything with the TNT title and put Andrade, PAC, Malakai, Dante Martin, Daniel Garcia, Wheeler Yuta, Angelico & JOKER (because they love those…make it Miro) in a tournament for the TNT title.

The last two episodes of Dynamite have been fucking awful and it’s no wonder they’re sitting at 800k views these days. Figure it out fuck.

May 21, 2022 4:27:34 GMT NATH45 said:

RT , really? She has become a meme a number of times over. 

Those are posted by simps that are in love with her. I ignore those and couldn’t care less.

RT, yeah, no - they are mocking her over-dramatic facial expressions and inserting herself into frame taking away from the actual workers. A good ref, is an unseen ref.

The reason they go crazy is it is one way to put over big moves. Bryce is a master of this. I like Aubrey and her tough girl gimmick. And that is not her getting herself over, but other people pitching it. Refs do not care if they are over or not.

And AEW holds the pattern.  One week on, one week off.  It is like clockwork.  At least this week I got Maki!!!


AEW's main problem is there are just too many people, and no one really gets a chance to shine.  So we get rushed stories on TV that have a 50/50 percent chance to get abandoned.  Like people just disappear for months on end without a story, and it seems maybe three groups gets stories, and the rest is just mashed together from the thousand belts Tony has floating around.  

That infamous photo of Aubrey was from one of their first few shows. I don't think it's really reflective of her and I'm willing to accept it was a choice she experimented with and she realised she hammed it up too much. Otherwise a lot of the other examples is just her doing her job. The officials have to 'perform' as well to enhance the action and you see it all the time in the WWE if you look for it. Little Naitch is one of the best at it. Admittedly Audrey can be very awkward in her movements and since she's female the male gaze is always going to be drawn to her more than male referees.

Really feels like most attacks on her are straight sexism. She is a perfectly acceptable ref. No Bryce, but few mortals are.

May 21, 2022 7:47:31 GMT c said:

Really feels like most attacks on her are straight sexism. She is a perfectly acceptable ref. No Bryce, but few mortals are.

It’s 100% sexism. I don’t really like any of the goofy AEW refs but they should all get it equally. They don’t and that speaks volumes.

May 21, 2022 7:51:40 GMT Todd said:

May 21, 2022 7:47:31 GMT c said:

Really feels like most attacks on her are straight sexism. She is a perfectly acceptable ref. No Bryce, but few mortals are.

It’s 100% sexism. I don’t really like any of the goofy AEW refs but they should all get it equally. They don’t and that speaks volumes.

It's not sexism. There's a number of female WWE refs, including famously Jessica Carr who is given a tonne of credit for her work.

The critism is, or was that Aubrey Edwards was at times, busy getting herself over instead of enhancing the match.

There was even a meme floating around with Edwards placed in famous wrestling matches, albeit blocking the view or centre stage.

It's fair.

To counterbalance it, Rick Knox is constantly criticised for his performances as well. Bryce doesn't get called out, but if you don't enjoy the goofy brand of humour AEW falls into he can rub those fans the wrong way as well. There's an element of sexism, but Aubrey is also featured a lot more heavily as a backstage personality as well so of course she's going to come under more scrutiny.

Fair enough, I’ll retract it to 50% sexism. Full disclosure - I don’t like Aubrey. She does impose herself on the presentation too much for my liking, and she’s lost what made her good at the beginning, which was enforcing the rules better (this might be Tony Khan’s fault though), but my point is that they all suck. I don’t see the others getting the same degree of criticism. Aubrey, people really getting after her on social media and I agree with c, I don’t think it would happen to a male ref.

For the record I've never noticed Aubrey more than any other ref, in AEW or elsewhere. Refs often sell moves and sell counts because...that's what they do, and that's fine. Those videos prove nothing - of course I'm going to notice her when the video is yelling at me "look at Aubreys's facial expressions!" complete with a zoom in on said facial expressions.

May 21, 2022 8:54:01 GMT Big Pete said:

To counterbalance it, Rick Knox is constantly criticised for his performances as well. Bryce doesn't get called out, but if you don't enjoy the goofy brand of humour AEW falls into he can rub those fans the wrong way as well. There's an element of sexism, but Aubrey is also featured a lot more heavily as a backstage personal. ity as well so of course she's going to come under more scrutiny.

I mentioned Knox in my post too, but he's considered a Young Bucks stooge and has been criticized for not being more authoritative in the matches, even by JR on commentary unlike with Edwards who has never really gotten any flack. She's AEW #1 ref and gets some of the big matches(Or did) so she's going to be considered the standard in the company. I know she had a weird take 1-2 years ago that Cornette called her out on when it comes to tags in a tag team match.

May 21, 2022 9:43:15 GMT Emperor said:

For the record I've never noticed Aubrey more than any other ref, in AEW or elsewhere. Refs often sell moves and sell counts because...that's what they do, and that's fine. Those videos prove nothing - of course I'm going to notice her when the video is yelling at me "look at Aubreys's facial expressions!" complete with a zoom in on said facial expressions.

I noticed her facials whenever I watch her reffed matches and I find them hilarious but I am not sure the wrestlers in the ring want that. Her positioning in those clips is what stood out to me, you had Dax even try and say with his body language to "Get out of the way!" as he's trying to break up a 3 count. 

In all fairness, and I will take her side. If I was standing 5 ft away from some of those wrestlecrap matches in those videos, I'd have the same look on my face.

I think Aubrey is a solid ref when it comes down to it (one of the few with sense during the Hardy/Guevara incident) but she does have a habit of getting herself into the shot. You can see her watch the cameras and position herself into the shot.

That she does. She rarely goes invisible like a good ref should.

As soon as fans learn your name they stop being capable of blending into the background. Bryce, Knox, Little Naich, Hebner... all guilty of this and yet considered the greats so...

May 21, 2022 18:55:15 GMT @ness said:

As soon as fans learn your name they stop being capable of blending into the background. Bryce, Knox, Little Naich, Hebner... all guilty of this and yet considered the greats so...

Red Shoes as well.

And yet Aubrey gets all the hate. I wonder why? What’s the difference here? Hmmmm

Sexist?

Thunder Rosa won the title over 2 months ago... 64 days, and she's had less than 20 minutes of television time since.

www.ringsidenews.com/2022/05/19/alarming-statistic-about-thunder-rosas-aew-womens-title-reign/

May 21, 2022 18:55:15 GMT @ness said:

As soon as fans learn your name they stop being capable of blending into the background. Bryce, Knox, Little Naich, Hebner... all guilty of this and yet considered the greats so...

Oh I dunno Jess does quite the job of being assertive but in the background and she’s one of the most known refs now.

I think Aubrey does this on purpose now to stick it to the trolls/critics.

May 22, 2022 8:12:08 GMT NATH45 said:

Sexist?

Thunder Rosa won the title over 2 months ago... 64 days, and she's had less than 20 minutes of television time since.

www.ringsidenews.com/2022/05/19/alarming-statistic-about-thunder-rosas-aew-womens-title-reign/

Nobody is more furious about this than me. She’s one of my favourite active wrestlers and the second she won the title she disappeared. I’m so upset that this is her title reign so far.

May 23, 2022 20:20:52 GMT Blindy said:

I think Aubrey does this on purpose now to stick it to the trolls/critics.

That guy has an unhealthy obsession with Aubrey Edwards and is a Jim Cornette fanboy. Whatever your point is doesn’t hold weight when you post “proof” from a biased source that cherry-picks single moments from hours and hours of footage.

Someone needs to tell William Regal "Alright, you've got TWO minutes. After TWO minutes, we're cutting off your mic and moving on with the segment and you don't get to talk again."

One of the main problems for me is one of the common ones - they've got too many wrestlers (and a lot of them just aren't much good).

There are a lot of good/great wrestlers there, but a lot of dead weight too. As well as the WWE castoffs no one really cares about (Hager, Spears, Nese), there are a load of other people (Luther, The Bunny, Peter Avalon) who are just clogging up the roster. I'm not an asshole - I'm not saying people should lose their jobs. But I really wonder why the hell some of them were signed in the first place (outside of being friends with more popular people)

There have always been too many stables. How is The Pinnacle different to The Inner Circle? What's the difference between Best Friends and Dark Order? It feels like everyone has to be in some kind of gang, even if the members have nothing at all in common (the HFO was one of the weirdest collections of people ever)

On top of that, way too many people have got a manager/coach/mentor/assistant/agent/whatever. It feels like an episode of Pokemon with trainers sending wrestlers out to battle each other.

Then there are a few things which are a positive to a lot of people, but really just turn me off. I know these are probably more specific dislikes to me and I understand why people DO like them, but still...

The whole "Forbidden Door" thing (the concept, not the PPV) just does nothing for me. I don't watch Japanese wrestling. I don't know anything about AAA. I watch a bit of Impact once every few months, then immediately realise why it's been a few months.

I honestly haven't got the time (or desire) to keep up with a load more different wrestling companies. No disrespect to anyone who watches them all - it's cool. I know it probably makes me not a "real wrestling fan", but I don't care.

So when a match on an AEW show is for the AAA tag titles, I couldn't care less. I'm not interested in the ROH women's champion when the actual AEW women's champ is virtually invisible. I'm sure it's a dream match for a lot of people when some random NJPW wrestler shows up, but I haven't got a clue who they are (and AEW just expects I should automatically know and be excited).

Sometimes it feels like I'm reading a huge comic book crossover event like Civil War on Infinite Earths or something. AEW has a massive roster, so stop giving TV time to people who don't even work there!

The referees are all irritating too, but I think it's funny how all the wrestlers completely ignore them and just do whatever the hell they want!

May 24, 2022 10:47:04 GMT @aaron said:

One of the main problems for me is one of the common ones - they've got too many wrestlers (and a lot of them just aren't much good).

There are a lot of good/great wrestlers there, but a lot of dead weight too. As well as the WWE castoffs no one really cares about (Hager, Spears, Nese), there are a load of other people (Luther, The Bunny, Peter Avalon) who are just clogging up the roster. I'm not an asshole - I'm not saying people should lose their jobs. But I really wonder why the hell some of them were signed in the first place (outside of being friends with more popular people)

There have always been too many stables. How is The Pinnacle different to The Inner Circle? What's the difference between Best Friends and Dark Order? It feels like everyone has to be in some kind of gang, even if the members have nothing at all in common (the HFO was one of the weirdest collections of people ever)

On top of that, way too many people have got a manager/coach/mentor/assistant/agent/whatever. It feels like an episode of Pokemon with trainers sending wrestlers out to battle each other.

Then there are a few things which are a positive to a lot of people, but really just turn me off. I know these are probably more specific dislikes to me and I understand why people DO like them, but still...

The whole "Forbidden Door" thing (the concept, not the PPV) just does nothing for me. I don't watch Japanese wrestling. I don't know anything about AAA. I watch a bit of Impact once every few months, then immediately realise why it's been a few months.

I honestly haven't got the time (or desire) to keep up with a load more different wrestling companies. No disrespect to anyone who watches them all - it's cool. I know it probably makes me not a "real wrestling fan", but I don't care.

So when a match on an AEW show is for the AAA tag titles, I couldn't care less. I'm not interested in the ROH women's champion when the actual AEW women's champ is virtually invisible. I'm sure it's a dream match for a lot of people when some random NJPW wrestler shows up, but I haven't got a clue who they are (and AEW just expects I should automatically know and be excited).

Sometimes it feels like I'm reading a huge comic book crossover event like Civil War on Infinite Earths or something. AEW has a massive roster, so stop giving TV time to people who don't even work there!

The referees are all irritating too, but I think it's funny how all the wrestlers completely ignore them and just do whatever the hell they want!

Your first two issues are cause and effect problems. The problem is too many wrestlers and the solution is big stables to get as many people on tv as possible that is why there a ton of people in most segments plus interruptions. Tony is too nice of a guy probably doesn't want to let people go. He needs a person that will do that for him who isn't friends with everyone. Hey Tony you have all the legendary bird pokemon do you really need that Pidgey you got when you got started. Yes, it was with me in the early days when I didn't have much.

A lot of the show built around you watch all wrestling to a fault a lot of the times. Hey is that the Butcher and the Blade. Who?