Holy fucking shit this offense.

It’s 5 yards! Why throw it 4 yards behind the LOS?! That’s now 9 yards.

That fourth down play is the one you run on third down so you can come back and run something more convertible in case you miss. Terrible game management as you were saying UT

Miller probably should have gone and got it to be fair to Foles.

Why would you throw a pass 4 yards behind the line of scrimmage on 3rd down? Just dumb.

Nov 17, 2020 3:54:46 GMT @admin said:

That fourth down play is the one you run on third down so you can come back and run something more convertible in case you miss. Terrible game management as you were saying UT

Miller probably should have gone and got it to be fair to Foles.

Nagy should be fired. Possibly the first ever coach that needs to be fired at 5-5. Seriously aside from maybe Gase he’s got to be the worst in the league.

Nov 17, 2020 3:58:44 GMT UT said:

Nov 17, 2020 3:54:46 GMT @admin said:

That fourth down play is the one you run on third down so you can come back and run something more convertible in case you miss. Terrible game management as you were saying UT

Miller probably should have gone and got it to be fair to Foles.

Nagy should be fired. Possibly the first ever coach that needs to be fired at 5-5. Seriously aside from maybe Gase he’s got to be the worst in the league.

Ryan Pace has got to go too. 

YOOOOOOOOO!

I was up 12.3 going against Graham and Minnesota D. Minnesota D fucked around today and put up 10 by themselves. Jimmy Graham-PA woke up feeling dangerous and got a fucking ZERO!

LETS

FUCKING

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Nov 17, 2020 3:58:44 GMT UT said:

Nov 17, 2020 3:54:46 GMT @admin said:

That fourth down play is the one you run on third down so you can come back and run something more convertible in case you miss. Terrible game management as you were saying UT

Miller probably should have gone and got it to be fair to Foles.

Nagy should be fired. Possibly the first ever coach that needs to be fired at 5-5. Seriously aside from maybe Gase he’s got to be the worst in the league.

Nagy. Gase. Anthony Lynn.

All got to go.

Shit. Throw in Denver’s HC too. His name slips my mind right now.

BUT YO I AM SO FUCKING FIRED UP!

Nov 17, 2020 4:11:49 GMT @admin said:

Nov 17, 2020 3:58:44 GMT UT said:

Nagy should be fired. Possibly the first ever coach that needs to be fired at 5-5. Seriously aside from maybe Gase he’s got to be the worst in the league.

Ryan Pace has got to go too. 

Yes him too. Like so much of this roster just underwhelms. And then being perfectly fine with Montgomery again is weird , it was clear LAST year he can’t make anything happen. Jimmy Graham has been washed for years and ever seen it twice a year. And their tackles are trash.

And that’s not stating the obvious quarterback issues. Like it’s Nick Foles.

Nov 17, 2020 4:16:35 GMT KING KID said:

Nov 17, 2020 3:58:44 GMT UT said:

Nagy should be fired. Possibly the first ever coach that needs to be fired at 5-5. Seriously aside from maybe Gase he’s got to be the worst in the league.

Nagy. Gase. Anthony Lynn.

All got to go.

Shit. Throw in Denver’s HC too. His name slips my mind right now.

BUT YO I AM SO FUCKING FIRED UP!

Fangio isn’t terrible , not great but doesn’t belong in the same class.

KING KID why haven't you posted about Cousins winning his first game on Monday night yet? A career defining moment as we all know weekday wins are infinitely more important and prestigious.

Nov 17, 2020 4:21:37 GMT @admin said:

KING KID why haven't you posted about Cousins winning his first game on Monday night yet? A career defining moment as we all know weekday wins are infinitely more important and prestigious.

I’m sorry. I was too busy celebrating that donut from Jimmy Graham and clinching a playoff berth in my big money league. 😂

I’ll get to Cousins in a second. Wait for it.

Some dude on the NFL Network just had me cracking up about that DeAndre Hopkins Hail Mary TD.

He said, “Deandre Hopkins was surrounded by ‘Bills’ like a pole dancer.” 🤣

YOU LIKE THAT?! @admin UT and especially CM Punk'd

Nov 17, 2020 4:17:24 GMT UT said:

Nov 17, 2020 4:16:35 GMT KING KID said:

Nagy. Gase. Anthony Lynn.

All got to go.

Shit. Throw in Denver’s HC too. His name slips my mind right now.

BUT YO I AM SO FUCKING FIRED UP!

Fangio isn’t terrible , not great but doesn’t belong in the same class.

He’s terrible. Drew Locks terrible. John Elway is terrible at picking QBs too.

Jamal Adams claiming the losing with the Jets gave him severe depression and that they don't want to win. Dude you fucking suck at coverage and consistently put an emphasis on breaking Adrian Wilson's sack number by a safety over winning. You also threw late hits whenever possible. Let it go. bring the dirt up when you play the Jets in a couple of weeks.

The prototypical millennial and the reason America is in deep trouble. Me first, social media driven guy who when the going gets tough, wants out.

Nov 17, 2020 1:15:24 GMT RagnarokMike said:

Nov 16, 2020 22:12:38 GMT @admin said:

Ben would struggle to crack the top 10 quarterbacks this season. Stop being silly.

I didn't get time to post about it because the Bills/Cards game was going crazy, but he was uncharacteristically poor. Normally even on his poorer statistical days it's usually because he was let down by other parts of the team (the defence giving up too many points, the offensive line allowing too much pressure) but yesterday it was all on him. Gregg on ATN described it well when he said you almost had to wonder whether he was all there mentally because of all the strange decisions and poor throws he was making - it was not at all what we've come to expect from Wilson.

Stop being silly, he says ironically. Only about 7 TD's out of first place with only one game marring his turnover picture (4 INT's, hasn't lost a fumble). And that's with the run game being shit for the last few games. Like I said, he gets the consistency he had this week, which may have a lot to do with the OC, as they always open up when they let him field general, if they can all get on the same page, hard to stop (especially if the run game gets going). Could easily lead the league in TD's by the final week if that happens, and if they somehow manage to go unbeaten, shouldn't even need that.. Without him, offense was bottom 6 in scoring, with him, they're currently top 7 (5th in PPG), with plenty to go climb higher.

He's easily surpasses 10 no question, objectively goofy in the head to suggest otherwise, and is hitting/has arguably hit the top 5. 

And again, didn't say to give it to him yet, just he's entering the conversation, marginally outside of those top few.

Just to come back to this now I've got a bit more time - using passing touchdowns as some sort of holy grail is very reductive. Even then given the changing nature of the QB position you need to factor in rushing scores which relegates him behind Allen and Murray into seventh place. Going into the more analytic rankings he's 12th in DYAR, 11th in DVOA, 10th in effective yards, and 20th in QBR.

Lots of objective people don't have him in their top 10 quarterbacks - largely because he's playing a lot more "complimentary ball" this season. That's working out well for the Steelers has a whole, but it's not MVP material. Ben's last among all regular starters for air yards per completion/attempt (Darnold, Garoppolo and Haskins are lower but they obviously have a small sample size).

Chris Wesseling on NFL.com has him 12th, a USA Today writer has him 12th, Pro Football Network has him 16th, Fansided has him 12th (even after moving him up 6 spots following the Bengals game) - objective enough for you?

Oh to acknowledge mikec conquering the Rona - let's just be honest with ourselves that there is no MVP "conversation" because Patrick Mahomes is far and away the best quarterback in the league.

Nov 17, 2020 23:33:36 GMT @admin said:

Oh to acknowledge mikec conquering the Rona - let's just be honest with ourselves that there is no MVP "conversation" because Patrick Mahomes is far and away the best quarterback in the league.

While I appreciate this, honestly I haven’t even been that impressed with Pat most the season. Just spoiled by consistency at this point.

Nov 18, 2020 0:51:43 GMT mikec said:

Nov 17, 2020 23:33:36 GMT @admin said:

Oh to acknowledge mikec conquering the Rona - let's just be honest with ourselves that there is no MVP "conversation" because Patrick Mahomes is far and away the best quarterback in the league.

While I appreciate this, honestly I haven’t even been that impressed with Pat most the season. Just spoiled by consistency at this point.

It's wild how high he's set the bar:

Nov 17, 2020 22:40:25 GMT @admin said:

Nov 17, 2020 1:15:24 GMT RagnarokMike said:

Stop being silly, he says ironically. Only about 7 TD's out of first place with only one game marring his turnover picture (4 INT's, hasn't lost a fumble). And that's with the run game being shit for the last few games. Like I said, he gets the consistency he had this week, which may have a lot to do with the OC, as they always open up when they let him field general, if they can all get on the same page, hard to stop (especially if the run game gets going). Could easily lead the league in TD's by the final week if that happens, and if they somehow manage to go unbeaten, shouldn't even need that.. Without him, offense was bottom 6 in scoring, with him, they're currently top 7 (5th in PPG), with plenty to go climb higher.

He's easily surpasses 10 no question, objectively goofy in the head to suggest otherwise, and is hitting/has arguably hit the top 5. 

And again, didn't say to give it to him yet, just he's entering the conversation, marginally outside of those top few.

Just to come back to this now I've got a bit more time - using passing touchdowns as some sort of holy grail is very reductive. Even then given the changing nature of the QB position you need to factor in rushing scores which relegates him behind Allen and Murray into seventh place. Going into the more analytic rankings he's 12th in DYAR, 11th in DVOA, 10th in effective yards, and 20th in QBR.

Lots of objective people don't have him in their top 10 quarterbacks - largely because he's playing a lot more "complimentary ball" this season. That's working out well for the Steelers has a whole, but it's not MVP material. Ben's last among all regular starters for air yards per completion/attempt (Darnold, Garoppolo and Haskins are lower but they obviously have a small sample size).

Chris Wesseling on NFL.com has him 12th, a USA Today writer has him 12th, Pro Football Network has him 16th, Fansided has him 12th (even after moving him up 6 spots following the Bengals game) - objective enough for you?

So it's reductive to hold points and turnovers, literally the most important things to a team, but not for the more meaningless stats like "air yards per completion," okay. The fact he's they've got a top 10 offense with a bottom 10 running game speaks volumes, and he's 9th in actual passer rating. So offense is top 10 thanks to him, he's top 10 in scoring, top 10 in passer rating (doing quite well even against the #1 defense in the league), he's done well at not turning the ball over compared to other 10 top performers (not the very top, which I've never argued for). Takes top 10 as easily as he's getting into the hall of fame, and those 4 other opinions don't make it any less silly to say he'd struggle to do a thing he's easily done. He's still only marginally behind the top performers, and is only a potential few games out, let alone the end of the season from possibly topping if the offense finds consistency like I said he'd need at only entering the conversation.

YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO UT DID YOUR BOY LOSE A BET OR SOMETHING?!






LMAO!

THIS IS AN NFL QUARTERBACK, GENTLEMEN. I AM ASHAMED OF MYSELF AND MY LACK OF ARM STRENGTH.

:rofl:






Yo Blindy. The Jets are going to win their first game this week. This dude lost his SWAG.

Nov 18, 2020 19:15:51 GMT KING KID said:

:rofl:






Yo Blindy. The Jets are going to win their first game this week. This dude lost his SWAG.

It’s going to be crazy when the Jets get lit up by a 12 year old.

Nov 18, 2020 6:32:58 GMT RagnarokMike said:

Nov 17, 2020 22:40:25 GMT @admin said:

Just to come back to this now I've got a bit more time - using passing touchdowns as some sort of holy grail is very reductive. Even then given the changing nature of the QB position you need to factor in rushing scores which relegates him behind Allen and Murray into seventh place. Going into the more analytic rankings he's 12th in DYAR, 11th in DVOA, 10th in effective yards, and 20th in QBR.

Lots of objective people don't have him in their top 10 quarterbacks - largely because he's playing a lot more "complimentary ball" this season. That's working out well for the Steelers has a whole, but it's not MVP material. Ben's last among all regular starters for air yards per completion/attempt (Darnold, Garoppolo and Haskins are lower but they obviously have a small sample size).

Chris Wesseling on NFL.com has him 12th, a USA Today writer has him 12th, Pro Football Network has him 16th, Fansided has him 12th (even after moving him up 6 spots following the Bengals game) - objective enough for you?

So it's reductive to hold points and turnovers, literally the most important things to a team, but not for the more meaningless stats like "air yards per completion," okay. The fact he's they've got a top 10 offense with a bottom 10 running game speaks volumes, and he's 9th in actual passer rating. So offense is top 10 thanks to him, he's top 10 in scoring, top 10 in passer rating (doing quite well even against the #1 defense in the league), he's done well at not turning the ball over compared to other 10 top performers (not the very top, which I've never argued for). Takes top 10 as easily as he's getting into the hall of fame, and those 4 other opinions don't make it any less silly to say he'd struggle to do a thing he's easily done. He's still only marginally behind the top performers, and is only a potential few games out, let alone the end of the season from possibly topping if the offense finds consistency like I said he'd need at only entering the conversation.

Pittsburgh is not a Top 10 offense.

16th in offensive DVOA and 15th in passing offense DVOA.

Armstead and Kinlaw are on the Cvoid list plus added three more players on the IR which more injuries from the Saints game including Hasty good thing Niners are on bye week 😒

@admin so you ever listen to the Sharp podcast on the Ringer? He went off on the Bears offense today and put out some interesting and absurd stats that shows why the play calling is so atrocious.

Nov 18, 2020 6:32:58 GMT RagnarokMike said:

Nov 17, 2020 22:40:25 GMT @admin said:

Just to come back to this now I've got a bit more time - using passing touchdowns as some sort of holy grail is very reductive. Even then given the changing nature of the QB position you need to factor in rushing scores which relegates him behind Allen and Murray into seventh place. Going into the more analytic rankings he's 12th in DYAR, 11th in DVOA, 10th in effective yards, and 20th in QBR.

Lots of objective people don't have him in their top 10 quarterbacks - largely because he's playing a lot more "complimentary ball" this season. That's working out well for the Steelers has a whole, but it's not MVP material. Ben's last among all regular starters for air yards per completion/attempt (Darnold, Garoppolo and Haskins are lower but they obviously have a small sample size).

Chris Wesseling on NFL.com has him 12th, a USA Today writer has him 12th, Pro Football Network has him 16th, Fansided has him 12th (even after moving him up 6 spots following the Bengals game) - objective enough for you?

So it's reductive to hold points and turnovers, literally the most important things to a team, but not for the more meaningless stats like "air yards per completion," okay. The fact he's they've got a top 10 offense with a bottom 10 running game speaks volumes, and he's 9th in actual passer rating. So offense is top 10 thanks to him, he's top 10 in scoring, top 10 in passer rating (doing quite well even against the #1 defense in the league), he's done well at not turning the ball over compared to other 10 top performers (not the very top, which I've never argued for). Takes top 10 as easily as he's getting into the hall of fame, and those 4 other opinions don't make it any less silly to say he'd struggle to do a thing he's easily done. He's still only marginally behind the top performers, and is only a potential few games out, let alone the end of the season from possibly topping if the offense finds consistency like I said he'd need at only entering the conversation.

What I am saying is that you can't just go "oh he's thrown a lot of touchdowns, he's in the MVP conversation" with any legitimacy when there's so much other evidence that shows he hasn't been one of the best quarterbacks this season. Air yards aren't meaningless because it demonstrates that Ben's not responsible for a overwhelming percentage of the offence, and that he's playing a facilitating role. The Steelers scheme is set up to throw short to Johnson & Claypool and them to get YAC, and it's clearly working well for them as a team. It's similar to what we've seen the 49ers do with the aforementioned Jimmy Garoppolo, who was tied for fifth in touchdown passes last season on a team that won a lot of games, but no one would have remotely considered him one of the better quarterbacks. Some of the statistics related to this style of passing don't even show Ben in the best light, he's currently 11th for on target percentage, where for comparison Jimmy G was 4th in 2019. 

Nov 18, 2020 22:23:31 GMT UT said:

@admin so you ever listen to the Sharp podcast on the Ringer? He went off on the Bears offense today and put out some interesting and absurd stats that shows why the play calling is so atrocious.

No but thanks for the recommendation! Sharp comes up with a lot of interesting stuff - but I have to rotate him on and off my Twitter timeline because he (similar to some of the PFF guys) can get pretty grating because they're so steadfast and snarky in their thoughts about what is right and wrong.

Possibly how some people see me on here, but we'll ignore that. :suspic:

Nov 18, 2020 22:59:20 GMT @admin said:

Nov 18, 2020 22:23:31 GMT UT said:

@admin so you ever listen to the Sharp podcast on the Ringer? He went off on the Bears offense today and put out some interesting and absurd stats that shows why the play calling is so atrocious.

No but thanks for the recommendation! Sharp comes up with a lot of interesting stuff - but I have to rotate him on and off my Twitter timeline because he (similar to some of the PFF guys) can get pretty grating because they're so steadfast and snarky in their thoughts about what is right and wrong.

Possibly how some people see me on here, but we'll ignore that. :suspic:

Oh he can definitely be grating on there too but he’s 100% on the Bears and their play calling.

Their idiocy of their play action game to throw behind the LOS and how it goes completely against the point of play action is great.

Except I didn't go "oh he's thrown a lot of touchdowns, he's in the MVP conversation," I went "He's got top 10 passer rating, is a top 10 scorer, top 10 at not turning the ball over, is ever climbing higher the top 10 performers. and doing it all with a shit run game. While not yet up for MVP, with ground to cover, he's certainly getting to the point where he's entering the conversation." And claiming that demonstrates Ben not being responsible for the overwhelming percentage of the offense shows how meaningless the stat is, as you can't watch the games and come to that conclusion. Especially with games like the Ravens and Cowboys, when the gamelplan wasn't working and the OC was struggling with adjustments, they basically told Ben "You do it." and he did; he was going out, 5 wide, reading the defenses, telling people where to line up and what route to run, and carving through them (basically elongated 2 minute drills, something only a small handful are as consistent as Ben on). Also ignoring the things he does that allows them the space after the catch, not limited to but including one of the hardest damn pump fakes in the league constantly putting defenders out of position, or buying time so they can improvise; or just the small ass windows he's putting some of them in, if the receiver escapes, all the better. The offense lives and dies at Ben. We know he can do the bombs too, but he's not constantly forcing it like in times past where AB A) could make it work, and B) got huffy if he didn't. If you put him rock bottom at #10, you've got about 3 QB's who are going to under perform ahead of him, and a couple others that are turning the ball over more. Maybe he fucks it up and doesn't get past starting to enter, still several weeks to climb in rating and scoring while trying to keep his turnovers low.