Dec 7, 2020 1:23:57 GMT Big Pete said:

Dec 6, 2020 19:09:24 GMT Shootist said:

Pro's pro Hennig forgot the layout of the match leaving Lex to lead, hence the schmoz. Yeah, a bad show all around.

Excellent takes Pete, thoughts on Wrestlemania VIII?

The transistional Wrestlemania with two of the greatest Wrestlemania matches of all-time in Piper/Bret and Savage/Flair. Bret, Shawn, Taker, Tatanka and even Owen pick up some impressive wins and the Hogan/Sid match up had a similar build. That match should have been bigger than it was, but there was so much going on behind the scenes the surprise Warrior return was a nice out and continued the theme. It's been years since I've last watched it, so it's due for a revisit but on first watch it was one of my favourite Wrestlemanias.

I think you'll find it holds up quite well on rewatch.

It was one of my early favorites as well when I first saw it, and it held that magic nearly two decades later.

And I say this after watching it on the heels of a first-time viewing of a surprisingly great WrestleMania VII. Previous viewing of WMVIII was on tape and comparing it to WrestleMania IV, X, XI, and 13.

Dec 5, 2020 14:30:13 GMT 🤯 said:

Controversial opinion(?): Crush is underrated.

Oof. Have to disagree on this one. It took me a minute or two just to come up with one Crush thing I liked. I eventually did get a couple...

-His Heart Punch was hugely over with my friends and I in late 1996.
-I think he did the Piledriver sometimes? 
-He was a part of Demolition. Sure, he was the worst part, but at least he was a part of Demolition. I guess that counts?
-I enjoyed his feud with Doink. Of course, that was ALL Doink with Crush as his broomstick. But if I'm being generous...

Dec 5, 2020 14:42:28 GMT 🤯 said:

Also, wish they'd had footage of Lex Luger knocking Bret out at brunch.

Would have been cool. I do remember them hyping that a lot coming out of 'Mania. Any Bret/Narcissist house show matches out there? Bret has put over Lex as a guy he enjoyed working with. Now I'm doubly intrigued. Lemme check....Success! There's a May '93 San Francisco house show match between the two up on Youtube. Maybe I'll give it a watch tomorrow. 

Dec 5, 2020 14:47:17 GMT 🤯 said:

Is IRS perhaps the low key greatest heel ever? There's so much to dislike about him. Even the Baker -men of the world who rooted for heels... I can't imagine anyone (save perhaps my dad) finding anything about IRS appealing enough to root for him.

Matt The IRS Fan! It's in his name! My best friend from about 93-95 loved IRS to a ridiculous extent. Irwin was his favorite wrestler for most of that stretch and I imagine his favorite wrestler of all time. Matt's enthusiasm was infectious. I'll confess he memed IRS into my heart. But this was a good 6 months after he smashed Beefcake's face. That crossed the line of acceptable heeling. But it was mostly forgotten 6 months later.

---

As for the rest, I lean towards agreeing with you. He is definitely one of the more underappreciated heels out there. 1999 Bossman is a good comparison for peak IRS. Not necessarily a main eventer, but just the most loathsome midcard dude. Think about this for a second. IRS went too far for Jimmy Hart. Jimmy Hart! A man who lead a rogues gallery second to none- Honkytonk Man, Earthquake, Dino Bravo, Rougeau Brothers, Hart Foundation, "Dangerous" Danny Davis, Adrian Adonis, Greg Valentine, Jacques Rougeau again- this time as The Mountie, etc. etc. The dastardly deeds perpetrated by these men are the stuff of legends. And Jimmy was often the mastermind calling the shots! But IRS went too far even for this guy. That's the sign of a next level heel. Fwiw I do think IRS was the best heel in the business in 1993. Let's take a look at Irwin's greatest hits...

Smashed Beefcake's surgically repaired face with a briefcase shot
Started a feud with the Undertaker because he didn't pay his death tax
Desecrated the sacred Native American headdress given to Tatanka by the legendary Chief Jay Strongbow because Tatanka didn't pay a gift tax

That's up there with anything 1999 Bossman did. And I have to talk about the Death & Gift Taxes real quick. I had no idea these were real things! I thought they were just wrestling b.s. until I mentioned them to my mom one day. Mind blown when I found out they really existed. 

Oh, and Mike Rotunda was also pretty great as the bully heel Captain of the Varsity Club in late 80s NWA. His feud with Rick Steiner was over like rover.

Hmm....I might have just talked myself into completely agreeing with PI's claim of "IRS being the low key greatest heel ever."

Dec 5, 2020 15:06:26 GMT 🤯 said:

Across five WrestleManias, Ted DiBiase has definitively the WORST physique of any wrestler not intentionally trying to be a flabby sack of shit (pre Chris Hero, that is).

PI's Dibiase bashing hurts my heart....but I often find myself struggling to dispute his claims with fact. But....but....WHAT A CHARACTER!

Dec 6, 2020 19:39:19 GMT 🤯 said:

So so so bad. And the entire event occurring while the sun was still up made it seem more like a way to pass an afternoon vs. the event of the evening to make a night out of. The match pairings and finish bookings were terrible. The crowd, small as it was, really wasn't all that into it. The total lack of celebrity involvement really stood out. The shitty new commentary team was not clicking.

Wrestlemania IX is not a good show. I cannot dispute that. But I did like the unique outdoor atmosphere. Don't remember the crowd being particularly small either. Hmm...it's listed at just under 17,000. I'll also confess to being hyped for this show in real time, with Perfect/Narcissist, Doink/Crush, Taker/Gonzalez, and even Money Inc/MegaManiac being draws for 1993 me. 
=======================
Watched some Global and USWA Texas the other day. OK, so it was mainly just The Patriot and John Tatum. Maybe I'll cover that stuff tomorrow. Or maybe I'll check out Bret/Narcissist and write about that instead. We'll see. Bolded for @ness 's pleasure!

Baker-man, don't get me wrong on DiBiase... He does have his redeeming qualities.

First, it's a all time great gimmick slash character executed to perfection. He's like an American Hans Gruber come to life in the pro wresting world. He's never ever suffered on the stick.

Second, his in-ring prowess has definitely presented itself more and more over the Manias. I think it's just maybe that I was expecting so much more from DiBiase at WM4, especially against Savage in the finals? And for sure against Jake. But his Virgil match totally had me see the light. And he was still good in the Mega Maniacs deal.

Did they ever explain how the Million Dollar Man made his millions? Especially if it wasn't in wrestling? I can actually get on board with the idea of the richest man not caring to have or even bother to pay for the best physique. Physiques are hard to come by, even paying for them, so much easier to become softbodied from indulging in the finest things in life instead of train and then just pay a bodyguard to do your heavy lifting... Or just outright bribe officials.

I'm only Bret/Owen-deep into WMX and early feedback...

It holds up as an all-time great match/story, but I'll stand by my controversial opinion that not only did it not need to be the opener... It SHOULDN'T have been the opener. Yokozuna has THE WORST management in the history of WWF Champions. As reigning champ being compelled to defend his title twice, he's rightfully entitled to some accommodation. It would've also been a good idea shoot-wise, as it would've given Yoko more time to legit rest between matches. I mean, if Yoko got gassed from a total of 10 minutes across two back-to-back matches the year before when he was lighter and in better cardiovascular shape... Asking him to go twice that long a year later and a hundred pounds heavier doesn't seem wise.

They should've kicked WMX with a "first"; i.e., first time ever starting things off with a world title match. Either Yoko retains definitively so that we don't kick things off with a wet fart non-finish, OR fuck it let Lex win and reign for 2 hours. Kicking WMX off with a world title switch would be hella historic.

Anyway...

Watching Owen/Bret got me thinking of my Top WrestleMania Matches so far:

1. Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart @ WMX
2. The Ultimate Warrior vs. Randy Savage @ WM7
3. The Ultimate Warrior vs. Hulk Hogan @ WM6
4. Randy Savage vs. Ric Flair @ WM8
5. Bret Hart vs. Roddy Piper @ WM8
6. Hulk Hogan vs. Sgt. Slaughter @ WM7
7. Mr. Perfect vs. Big Boss Man @ WM7
8. Jake Roberts vs. Rick Martel @ WM7
9. Billy Jack Haynes vs. Hercules @ WM3
10. The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude @ WM5

I feel like I should be watching Sabu matches instead based on Kilgore's excellent reviews.

But instead, plowing ahead with the WrestleMania WatchThru...

Such a crazy plummet of aura from WM8 through WM11 based on venue and who they got to sing America the Beautiful.

Anyway, WMX is pretty much a two-match show as I remembered, but the rest of the matches actually weren't as bad as I thought.

Onto WM11 now... Didn't realize or forgot the Allied Powers had such a cool entrance theme. Even the Blu Twins have a solid entrance theme.

Did the WWF have a new producer or director or whatever for WMXI? The production quality is TERRIBLE!!! Miscue with the music bed for America the Beautiful, miscue and then no lighting for JR interviewing Uncle Zeb, no audio when they throw to Torturro in the locker room, etc. Woof...

EDIT: Adding to the list... No audio/bad levels when they throw backstage to Kid & Razor, then soft production truck banter as they come back. Then the second super awkward pyro moment in as many matches.

The highest highlight of WM11 so far is 1-2-3 "Karate" Kid's dope geisha robe. Looks so silky soft!

Random confession: as a kid, I was always so confused as to why Razor Ramon had arcade tickets all over his ring gear.

Sid is the fucking man. He should've been used better at WM11.

Also, IRS has aged so much he looks like the lost brother link between Milton and Lumbergh from Office Space.

Also also, love that Nikolai Volkoff as a member of the Million Dollar Corporation has the ¢ logo on his ring gear.

Charles Wright botching his s second WrestleMania run-in.

Shitty production continues...

But watching Taker's character and gaga evolve is awesome.

Sid is more over with 1995 Connecticut than either Diesel or HBK. The fans want him to wreck shit so bad.

Updating!

Dec 6, 2020 19:39:19 GMT 🤯 said:

Updating!

Nov 27, 2020 2:34:57 GMT 🤯 said:

Updating!

1. WrestleMania 3
2. WrestleMania 8
3. WrestleMania 7
4. WrestleMania 6
5. WrestleMania 5
6. WrestleMania 4
7. WrestleMania 1
8. WrestleMania 2

WrestleMania VIII with just a clean finish to Hogan/Sid and no other tweaks eeks really close to WrestleMania III level perfection IMO.

That botched DQ finish though really leaves a sour taste, and I find myself struggling with whether I overrate the show in spite of it or underrate the show because of it.

It's definitely buoyed by an incredibly strong undercard as we start the transition to the New Generation.

Unlike WMIII though, I can totally get behind the rebooked versions of WMVIII. But I'm surprised how much I loved Sid as the Hogan opponent here. It's a damn shame Sid wasn't sticking around. Can you imagine him killing off Hogan with three powerbombs here?! Then killing off Warrior at SummerSlam, then Savage at Survivor Series to become world champ? Then maybe Flair turns face to face Sid at the Rumble, only to be killed off too.

Sid has now torn through every major star of the late 80s and early 90s. Set him up as the big bad for Bret to dethrone at WrestleMania IX for Bret's first world title win. Fuck me... Sid was the best, and could've been so much more.

1. WrestleMania 3
2. WrestleMania 8
3. WrestleMania 7
4. WrestleMania 6
5. WrestleMania 5
6. WrestleMania 4
7. WrestleMania 1
8. WrestleMania 2
9. WrestleMania 9

WM9:
So so so bad. Light on matches from a quantity perspective, and yet every match went 3-5 minutes too long save perhaps the world title matches. The venue felt small and like a parking lot show on steroids. And the entire event occurring while the sun was still up made it seem more like a way to pass an afternoon vs. the event of the evening to make a night out of. The match pairings and finish bookings were terrible. The crowd, small as it was, really wasn't all that into it. The total lack of celebrity involvement really stood out. The shitty new commentary team was not clicking.

Overall, it felt like a show trying to buy time and build to the next. No idea if they knew in real life by this point that they were doing a June PPV or, if they did, if they knew it was just gonna be the King of the Ring. But between the shit finishes and the stuff built to on this show, it really felt like they were trying to set a future show up versus make this a great WrestleMania.

Lex knocking Bret out a brunch, then Shawn attacking perfect backstage seemed to set up Bret/Luger and Shawn/Perfect at KOTR while Yoko would surely get his Rematch against Hogan and Taker his against Gonzalez. Then maybe we'd get Perfect/Lex II and Hogan/Hart at SummerSlam. Shrinkers/Steiners was purely about who would actually take the titles off Money, Inc. And guys like Tatanka and Razor who should've been put over strong and definitively.

All in all, WMIX is the first WrestleMania BEGGING to be rebooked... Potentially even from top to bottom.

1. WrestleMania 3
2. WrestleMania 8
3. WrestleMania 7
4. WrestleMania 6
5. WrestleMania 5
6. WrestleMania 10
7. WrestleMania 4
8. WrestleMania 1
9. WrestleMania 2
10. WrestleMania 9
11. WrestleMania 11

/////

Despite taking place in MSG, WMX still somehow felt so much smaller scale than the first. Commentary was at least better than WM9, but still severely lacking IMO compared to the Ventura shows. It also felt more like a classic WrestleMania with the celebrity involvement again.

While it's rightly remembered as a two match card for Bret/Owen and the ladder match, the rest of the card really isn't as bad in the ring as I remembered from initial and last viewing many years ago.

I continue to think Crush is underrated, underappreciated. The FCA match's major flaws are less anything to do with Crush or Savage, and more the bookers needing to realize they should've ditched the "one minute to return to the ring" concept.

Also, replacement Doink isn't nearly as shit in the ring as I feel like his rap suggests. I think the problem with Doink post-Borne is just that he was totally neutered as a face character. That said, the mixed tag started out pretty good. Miscues and botched preceded a really scewy post-match deal.

While I appreciated the callback aspect of having Leilani Kai challenge for the Women's Title, I wish it had been Luna in that spot.

There was no need for the 10-man to be scrapped IMO if they just skipped the needless hype video for Bret/Yoko II. Speaking of the title matches, I'm actually OK with the finish to Yoko/Lex... Just wish it had led to either the renewed Lex/Perfect feud with roles reversed, or a Lex heel turn to join forces with either Owen or DiBiase's MDC to chase Bret. Bret had the better title match by a hair, but it suffered from a dumb finish. Bret/Yoko I was considerably better despite Yoko gassing in the end and the result.

There's some room to rebook WMX IMO to make it a better show.

/////

Then there's the train wreck that was WrestleMania 11.

Between the location/venue and plague of production issues in the first half, this might as well have been a B loop house show. Doesn't feel like a WrestleMania at all. Even despite the good celebrity involvement.

The Allied Powers vs. Blu Twins was better than I recall, and I found myself liking both teams... But what a terrible use of Bulldog & Lex.

The IC title match was perhaps the MOTN, but the non-finish hurts it a bit even if it fits the overall story arc of the Jarrett/Razor feud.

Taker/Bundy in-ring wasn't as bad as Taker/Gonzalez, but it also felt like far less of a spectacle. Bundy suffers from the same issue here as he did against Hogan at WM2... He's not as tall as you think, and it shows against opponents of decent height. So he suddenly seems less imposing and more like just a fat bully with alopecia. Anyway, think this match might've been given more of a hall pass without the urn gaga and had Taker managed the Tombstone instead of the botch into a scoop slam then clothesline finish.

Still love Owen revealing Yoko as his partner, but them squashing the Gunns was longer and more boring than it should've been.

Then Bret/Backlund could've been great but is really hampered by time constraints and flat out ruined by Piper's officiating.

Diesel/HBK is the other contender for MOTN, but the match is hurt a bit IMO by the crowd being most into Sid and then Sid not really being THAT involved. Sid should've at least hit a powerbomb on Diesel on the outside or something, or inadvertently whacked Shawn with a chair en route to Shawn losing. Oh well...

Bam Bam Bigelow made chicken salad out of potential chicken shit, and LT more than carried his own to be fair... But it was such a wet fart of a main event.

Updating!

Dec 13, 2020 14:06:26 GMT 🤯 said:

Updating!

Dec 6, 2020 19:39:19 GMT 🤯 said:

Updating!

1. WrestleMania 3
2. WrestleMania 8
3. WrestleMania 7
4. WrestleMania 6
5. WrestleMania 5
6. WrestleMania 4
7. WrestleMania 1
8. WrestleMania 2
9. WrestleMania 9

WM9:
So so so bad. Light on matches from a quantity perspective, and yet every match went 3-5 minutes too long save perhaps the world title matches. The venue felt small and like a parking lot show on steroids. And the entire event occurring while the sun was still up made it seem more like a way to pass an afternoon vs. the event of the evening to make a night out of. The match pairings and finish bookings were terrible. The crowd, small as it was, really wasn't all that into it. The total lack of celebrity involvement really stood out. The shitty new commentary team was not clicking.

Overall, it felt like a show trying to buy time and build to the next. No idea if they knew in real life by this point that they were doing a June PPV or, if they did, if they knew it was just gonna be the King of the Ring. But between the shit finishes and the stuff built to on this show, it really felt like they were trying to set a future show up versus make this a great WrestleMania.

Lex knocking Bret out a brunch, then Shawn attacking perfect backstage seemed to set up Bret/Luger and Shawn/Perfect at KOTR while Yoko would surely get his Rematch against Hogan and Taker his against Gonzalez. Then maybe we'd get Perfect/Lex II and Hogan/Hart at SummerSlam. Shrinkers/Steiners was purely about who would actually take the titles off Money, Inc. And guys like Tatanka and Razor who should've been put over strong and definitively.

All in all, WMIX is the first WrestleMania BEGGING to be rebooked... Potentially even from top to bottom.

1. WrestleMania 3
2. WrestleMania 8
3. WrestleMania 7
4. WrestleMania 6
5. WrestleMania 5
6. WrestleMania 10
7. WrestleMania 4
8. WrestleMania 1
9. WrestleMania 2
10. WrestleMania 9
11. WrestleMania 11

/////

Despite taking place in MSG, WMX still somehow felt so much smaller scale than the first. Commentary was at least better than WM9, but still severely lacking IMO compared to the Ventura shows. It also felt more like a classic WrestleMania with the celebrity involvement again.

While it's rightly remembered as a two match card for Bret/Owen and the ladder match, the rest of the card really isn't as bad in the ring as I remembered from initial and last viewing many years ago.

I continue to think Crush is underrated, underappreciated. The FCA match's major flaws are less anything to do with Crush or Savage, and more the bookers needing to realize they should've ditched the "one minute to return to the ring" concept.

Also, replacement Doink isn't nearly as shit in the ring as I feel like his rap suggests. I think the problem with Doink post-Borne is just that he was totally neutered as a face character. That said, the mixed tag started out pretty good. Miscues and botched preceded a really scewy post-match deal.

While I appreciated the callback aspect of having Leilani Kai challenge for the Women's Title, I wish it had been Luna in that spot.

There was no need for the 10-man to be scrapped IMO if they just skipped the needless hype video for Bret/Yoko II. Speaking of the title matches, I'm actually OK with the finish to Yoko/Lex... Just wish it had led to either the renewed Lex/Perfect feud with roles reversed, or a Lex heel turn to join forces with either Owen or DiBiase's MDC to chase Bret. Bret had the better title match by a hair, but it suffered from a dumb finish. Bret/Yoko I was considerably better despite Yoko gassing in the end and the result.

There's some room to rebook WMX IMO to make it a better show.

/////

Then there's the train wreck that was WrestleMania 11.

Between the location/venue and plague of production issues in the first half, this might as well have been a B loop house show. Doesn't feel like a WrestleMania at all. Even despite the good celebrity involvement.

The Allied Powers vs. Blu Twins was better than I recall, and I found myself liking both teams... But what a terrible use of Bulldog & Lex.

The IC title match was perhaps the MOTN, but the non-finish hurts it a bit even if it fits the overall story arc of the Jarrett/Razor feud.

Taker/Bundy in-ring wasn't as bad as Taker/Gonzalez, but it also felt like far less of a spectacle. Bundy suffers from the same issue here as he did against Hogan at WM2... He's not as tall as you think, and it shows against opponents of decent height. So he suddenly seems less imposing and more like just a fat bully with alopecia. Anyway, think this match might've been given more of a hall pass without the urn gaga and had Taker managed the Tombstone instead of the botch into a scoop slam then clothesline finish.

Still love Owen revealing Yoko as his partner, but them squashing the Gunns was longer and more boring than it should've been.

Then Bret/Backlund could've been great but is really hampered by time constraints and flat out ruined by Piper's officiating.

Diesel/HBK is the other contender for MOTN, but the match is hurt a bit IMO by the crowd being most into Sid and then Sid not really being THAT involved. Sid should've at least hit a powerbomb on Diesel on the outside or something, or inadvertently whacked Shawn with a chair en route to Shawn losing. Oh well...

Bam Bam Bigelow made chicken salad out of potential chicken shit, and LT more than carried his own to be fair... But it was such a wet fart of a main event.

1. WrestleMania 3
2. WrestleMania 8
3. WrestleMania 7
4. WrestleMania 6
5. WrestleMania 5
6. WrestleMania 10
7. WrestleMania 4
8. WrestleMania 1
9. WrestleMania 12
10. WrestleMania 2
11. WrestleMania 9
12. WrestleMania 11

WM12 really exposed how anemic the WWF was for talent and fan buzz in late 95/early 96. I almost wonder if they booked the Iron Man out of necessity?

While the venue was a big improvement over WM11, the fans just didn't seem all that into this show. There were a few big pops at points in the Iron Man, some lesser pops for Piper and Warrior, minor heat for Camp Cornette, and pin drop silence for pretty much everything else.

With Kilgore mentioning Yokozuna in the rebook thread, I'll have to briefly defend the beefiest beefer in the history of beef: despite all his weight gain, IMO Yoko has his second best Mania outing here. Granted, he was masked in a six-man. But considering Ahmed and 1996 Jake were his teammates, that's not as much of a slight as it sounds.

Savio/Austin should've gone half the time it did, same for Diesel/Taker (which was sadly way worse than I remember from last viewing), and the Hollywood Backlot Brawl should've occurred in one much more concise part or not at all.

Meanwhile, I did an Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind 360 on the Iron Man. A long long time ago upon first watch (granted it was likely a highly edited highlights montage) I was pretty mesmerized without really being cognizant of why. Then over the years I soured on it arbitrarily, or perhaps out of spite over all the overrated hype it got. Then I started to buy into the qualms and nitpicks that folks on the IWC had raised. Then I tried watching it again some years ago and couldn't get through it because the notion of an hour plus match made my skin crawl. Well, here I am, an hour plus later with it as my second favorite WrestleMania match behind Bret/Owen.

The Iron Man, the decision to have no falls, and the pivot to go into sudden death were all novel concepts that resonated much more with me than the novel concepts of the two planned world title matches at WMX or impromptu second world title match at WM9. Because I'm a big sucker for brackets, and because of personal nostalgia factors, WM4 still edges out WM12.

From memory the knock against the Iron Man match is that it really doesn't hold up under scrutiny. Maffew highlighted every instance where Bret would forget which arm he was supposed to sell and a lot of the back work was pretty much dropped. According to Bret, Shawn designed the first half of the match and Bret came up with the finish which may explain the disconnect.

My issue is that they were going for an epic match where neither man could be seperated after 60 minutes, yet the build up was sketchy at best. Bret spent the majority of 1995 feuding with pirates and dentists, he wasn't exactly this unbeatable champion who out-wrestled all comers and couldn't be topped. Then you have Shawn who took not one but two paid vacations. They did enough to make him a credible main event talent (back to back Rumble wins, the SummerSlam 1995 rematch) but it wasn't like he was the form wrestler who just needed the belt to make it official. If they had have given Bret more credibility and given him and Shawn more recent history I think it would have resonated more with me.

I just think they thought the match would make up for all that and as much as I knock it, I still think it's one of the New Generation Era matches you have to see along with Shawn Michaels/Razor Ramon and Bret/Diesel Surivor Series 1995 (among others).

Here were my thoughts of Wrestlemania XI

Wrestlemania XI - Unlike IX, the WWF didn't have Hogan to fall back on so it really felt lacking in star power. I've got mixed emotions on LT-Bam Bam. I thought it was a good piece of sports entertainment and one of the best celebrity spots in Wrestlemania history. On the other hand, it just wasn't main event material. The main event spot at Wrestlemania is your opportunity to promote your guy and help make them a larger than life personality you have to pay to see. To give that spot to an ex-footballer was such a waste and did nothing for the company moving forward.

I found the show pretty watchable and after the WWF Tag Team title match thought there was every possibility that the show was underrated. Then Backlund-Bret started and only was it a stinker, it's in the running for the worst Wrestlemania match of all-time. What a waste of time that was. I thought Diesel-Shawn had it's moments, but this is where I disagree about Shawn being the best PRO wrestler because he totally got himself over at the expense of the match. The match did nothing for Diesel and as Nash noted in his 95 Year In Review shoot, Shawn managed to take the worst powerbomb in the history of Wrestlemania.

I found myself enjoying Wrestlemania XIII more than I thought I would. It pales in comparison to the classic Wrestlemanias and Taker/Sid goes forever but I genuinely enjoyed the Chicago Street Fight and Austin/Bret had the best Attitude Era style match before the era had even started.

When did DDTs become transition moves?

Fans were chanting for a DDT as a killshot at WrestleMania XII.

By WrestleMania XIII, Mankind virtually no sells one from Owen Hart. And the commentary team barely addresses it.

I have a feeling the DDT died long before WM13 though?

Man, I don't think there's ever been as crazy of a 180 degree change in fan reaction from one WrestleMania to the next for a wrestler like the one for Steve Austin from WM12 to WM13. From pin drop silent indifference to beer bash fueled rowdy rage.

Good god almighty, the submission match is a thing of pure fucking beauty.

Ahmed looks so fucking killer badass in those red Road Warrior spiked shoulder pads.

I forgot they put a noose on Ahmed.

Talk about things that fly in late 1990s that never fly in late 2010s.

Favorite fan sign in 13 WrestleManias is a working pair of scissors poster that says "Sid" on one blade and "Arn" on the other.

Updating!

Dec 18, 2020 21:26:36 GMT 🤯 said:

Updating!

Dec 13, 2020 14:06:26 GMT 🤯 said:

Updating!

1. WrestleMania 3
2. WrestleMania 8
3. WrestleMania 7
4. WrestleMania 6
5. WrestleMania 5
6. WrestleMania 10
7. WrestleMania 4
8. WrestleMania 1
9. WrestleMania 2
10. WrestleMania 9
11. WrestleMania 11

/////

Despite taking place in MSG, WMX still somehow felt so much smaller scale than the first. Commentary was at least better than WM9, but still severely lacking IMO compared to the Ventura shows. It also felt more like a classic WrestleMania with the celebrity involvement again.

While it's rightly remembered as a two match card for Bret/Owen and the ladder match, the rest of the card really isn't as bad in the ring as I remembered from initial and last viewing many years ago.

I continue to think Crush is underrated, underappreciated. The FCA match's major flaws are less anything to do with Crush or Savage, and more the bookers needing to realize they should've ditched the "one minute to return to the ring" concept.

Also, replacement Doink isn't nearly as shit in the ring as I feel like his rap suggests. I think the problem with Doink post-Borne is just that he was totally neutered as a face character. That said, the mixed tag started out pretty good. Miscues and botched preceded a really scewy post-match deal.

While I appreciated the callback aspect of having Leilani Kai challenge for the Women's Title, I wish it had been Luna in that spot.

There was no need for the 10-man to be scrapped IMO if they just skipped the needless hype video for Bret/Yoko II. Speaking of the title matches, I'm actually OK with the finish to Yoko/Lex... Just wish it had led to either the renewed Lex/Perfect feud with roles reversed, or a Lex heel turn to join forces with either Owen or DiBiase's MDC to chase Bret. Bret had the better title match by a hair, but it suffered from a dumb finish. Bret/Yoko I was considerably better despite Yoko gassing in the end and the result.

There's some room to rebook WMX IMO to make it a better show.

/////

Then there's the train wreck that was WrestleMania 11.

Between the location/venue and plague of production issues in the first half, this might as well have been a B loop house show. Doesn't feel like a WrestleMania at all. Even despite the good celebrity involvement.

The Allied Powers vs. Blu Twins was better than I recall, and I found myself liking both teams... But what a terrible use of Bulldog & Lex.

The IC title match was perhaps the MOTN, but the non-finish hurts it a bit even if it fits the overall story arc of the Jarrett/Razor feud.

Taker/Bundy in-ring wasn't as bad as Taker/Gonzalez, but it also felt like far less of a spectacle. Bundy suffers from the same issue here as he did against Hogan at WM2... He's not as tall as you think, and it shows against opponents of decent height. So he suddenly seems less imposing and more like just a fat bully with alopecia. Anyway, think this match might've been given more of a hall pass without the urn gaga and had Taker managed the Tombstone instead of the botch into a scoop slam then clothesline finish.

Still love Owen revealing Yoko as his partner, but them squashing the Gunns was longer and more boring than it should've been.

Then Bret/Backlund could've been great but is really hampered by time constraints and flat out ruined by Piper's officiating.

Diesel/HBK is the other contender for MOTN, but the match is hurt a bit IMO by the crowd being most into Sid and then Sid not really being THAT involved. Sid should've at least hit a powerbomb on Diesel on the outside or something, or inadvertently whacked Shawn with a chair en route to Shawn losing. Oh well...

Bam Bam Bigelow made chicken salad out of potential chicken shit, and LT more than carried his own to be fair... But it was such a wet fart of a main event.

1. WrestleMania 3
2. WrestleMania 8
3. WrestleMania 7
4. WrestleMania 6
5. WrestleMania 5
6. WrestleMania 10
7. WrestleMania 4
8. WrestleMania 1
9. WrestleMania 12
10. WrestleMania 2
11. WrestleMania 9
12. WrestleMania 11

WM12 really exposed how anemic the WWF was for talent and fan buzz in late 95/early 96. I almost wonder if they booked the Iron Man out of necessity?

While the venue was a big improvement over WM11, the fans just didn't seem all that into this show. There were a few big pops at points in the Iron Man, some lesser pops for Piper and Warrior, minor heat for Camp Cornette, and pin drop silence for pretty much everything else.

With Kilgore mentioning Yokozuna in the rebook thread, I'll have to briefly defend the beefiest beefer in the history of beef: despite all his weight gain, IMO Yoko has his second best Mania outing here. Granted, he was masked in a six-man. But considering Ahmed and 1996 Jake were his teammates, that's not as much of a slight as it sounds.

Savio/Austin should've gone half the time it did, same for Diesel/Taker (which was sadly way worse than I remember from last viewing), and the Hollywood Backlot Brawl should've occurred in one much more concise part or not at all.

Meanwhile, I did an Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind 360 on the Iron Man. A long long time ago upon first watch (granted it was likely a highly edited highlights montage) I was pretty mesmerized without really being cognizant of why. Then over the years I soured on it arbitrarily, or perhaps out of spite over all the overrated hype it got. Then I started to buy into the qualms and nitpicks that folks on the IWC had raised. Then I tried watching it again some years ago and couldn't get through it because the notion of an hour plus match made my skin crawl. Well, here I am, an hour plus later with it as my second favorite WrestleMania match behind Bret/Owen.

The Iron Man, the decision to have no falls, and the pivot to go into sudden death were all novel concepts that resonated much more with me than the novel concepts of the two planned world title matches at WMX or impromptu second world title match at WM9. Because I'm a big sucker for brackets, and because of personal nostalgia factors, WM4 still edges out WM12.

1. WrestleMania 3
2. WrestleMania 13
3. WrestleMania 8
4. WrestleMania 7
5. WrestleMania 6
6. WrestleMania 5
7. WrestleMania 10
8. WrestleMania 4
9. WrestleMania 1
10. WrestleMania 12
11. WrestleMania 2
12. WrestleMania 9
13. WrestleMania 11

WM13 and Taker/Sid specifically are HIGHLY underrated and under-appreciated

Holy shit was Sable over.

#1b to Stone Cold's #1a.

Only complaint about WM14 so far is the fuck finish to the IC title match.

They should've just let Shamrock get the belt, spare him some of that Lex Luger choke artist stink. Defends against the returning Double J at Unforgiven since Double J was involved with ring introductions and was a former IC champ. Then maybe drop it to a heel Owen or face HHH at some point in the early summer?

Meanwhile, free up Rock to beat Faarooq at Unforgiven before continuing his ascent up the card to the world title. Rock beats Faarooq then moves into a heel Nation vs. face DX program. Costs HHH the European title to D'Lo, but HHH just picks up the IC title as a make good. Then SummerSlam is just HHH defending instead of challenging in the ladder match.

Pete Rose is a fucking LEGEND.

Good God. The pop when that glass shatters at WrestleMania XIV.

Pretty sure Austin 3:16 actually says Stone Cold > The Father, The Son & The Holy Ghost combined.

Updating!

Dec 19, 2020 20:34:31 GMT 🤯 said:

Updating!

Dec 18, 2020 21:26:36 GMT 🤯 said:

Updating!

1. WrestleMania 3
2. WrestleMania 8
3. WrestleMania 7
4. WrestleMania 6
5. WrestleMania 5
6. WrestleMania 10
7. WrestleMania 4
8. WrestleMania 1
9. WrestleMania 12
10. WrestleMania 2
11. WrestleMania 9
12. WrestleMania 11

WM12 really exposed how anemic the WWF was for talent and fan buzz in late 95/early 96. I almost wonder if they booked the Iron Man out of necessity?

While the venue was a big improvement over WM11, the fans just didn't seem all that into this show. There were a few big pops at points in the Iron Man, some lesser pops for Piper and Warrior, minor heat for Camp Cornette, and pin drop silence for pretty much everything else.

With Kilgore mentioning Yokozuna in the rebook thread, I'll have to briefly defend the beefiest beefer in the history of beef: despite all his weight gain, IMO Yoko has his second best Mania outing here. Granted, he was masked in a six-man. But considering Ahmed and 1996 Jake were his teammates, that's not as much of a slight as it sounds.

Savio/Austin should've gone half the time it did, same for Diesel/Taker (which was sadly way worse than I remember from last viewing), and the Hollywood Backlot Brawl should've occurred in one much more concise part or not at all.

Meanwhile, I did an Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind 360 on the Iron Man. A long long time ago upon first watch (granted it was likely a highly edited highlights montage) I was pretty mesmerized without really being cognizant of why. Then over the years I soured on it arbitrarily, or perhaps out of spite over all the overrated hype it got. Then I started to buy into the qualms and nitpicks that folks on the IWC had raised. Then I tried watching it again some years ago and couldn't get through it because the notion of an hour plus match made my skin crawl. Well, here I am, an hour plus later with it as my second favorite WrestleMania match behind Bret/Owen.

The Iron Man, the decision to have no falls, and the pivot to go into sudden death were all novel concepts that resonated much more with me than the novel concepts of the two planned world title matches at WMX or impromptu second world title match at WM9. Because I'm a big sucker for brackets, and because of personal nostalgia factors, WM4 still edges out WM12.

1. WrestleMania 3
2. WrestleMania 13
3. WrestleMania 8
4. WrestleMania 7
5. WrestleMania 6
6. WrestleMania 5
7. WrestleMania 10
8. WrestleMania 4
9. WrestleMania 1
10. WrestleMania 12
11. WrestleMania 2
12. WrestleMania 9
13. WrestleMania 11

WM13 and Taker/Sid specifically are HIGHLY underrated and under-appreciated

1. WrestleMania 3
2. WrestleMania 14
3. WrestleMania 13
4. WrestleMania 8
5. WrestleMania 7
6. WrestleMania 6
7. WrestleMania 5
8. WrestleMania 10
9. WrestleMania 4
10. WrestleMania 1
11. WrestleMania 12
12. WrestleMania 2
13. WrestleMania 9
14. WrestleMania 11

WM14 took the rough draft of WM13 and perfected the beats to give WM3 a real run for the money for best Mania up to this point.

Underrated great look: Billy Gunn

Totally understand why they tried to push him.

Same for Hardcore Holly. Dude is yoked.

Dec 21, 2020 20:28:24 GMT 🤯 said:

Underrated great look: Billy Gunn

Totally understand why they tried to push him.

Same for Hardcore Holly. Dude is yoked.

Even if the booking leading into it was fucked up, the Hardcore Triple Threat at WM15 was way more entertaining than I recall. Solidly entertaining opener. Willing to bet it ends up being the best triple threat at a Mania until WMXX.

Man, knowing what we know now about CTE, watching that KO blow to Bart Gunn is sickening. Maybe one of the nastiest bumps between KOTR98 and Droz earning his wheels.