Road Dogg definitely the most over member of DC 2.0

Haters gonna hate

Dec 21, 2020 16:02:09 GMT 🤯 said:

Only complaint about WM14 so far is the fuck finish to the IC title match.

They should've just let Shamrock get the belt, spare him some of that Lex Luger choke artist stink. Defends against the returning Double J at Unforgiven since Double J was involved with ring introductions and was a former IC champ. Then maybe drop it to a heel Owen or face HHH at some point in the early summer?

Meanwhile, free up Rock to beat Faarooq at Unforgiven before continuing his ascent up the card to the world title. Rock beats Faarooq then moves into a heel Nation vs. face DX program. Costs HHH the European title to D'Lo, but HHH just picks up the IC title as a make good. Then SummerSlam is just HHH defending instead of challenging in the ladder match.

Honestly though... does the choke artist finally winning the big one ever mean anything? Like is all the shenanigans worth it? They always seem less over by time they do it and the person that screwed them greatly benefits. The reward just doesn't seem to justify the torture.

Dec 21, 2020 21:55:57 GMT @ness said:

Dec 21, 2020 16:02:09 GMT 🤯 said:

Only complaint about WM14 so far is the fuck finish to the IC title match.

They should've just let Shamrock get the belt, spare him some of that Lex Luger choke artist stink. Defends against the returning Double J at Unforgiven since Double J was involved with ring introductions and was a former IC champ. Then maybe drop it to a heel Owen or face HHH at some point in the early summer?

Meanwhile, free up Rock to beat Faarooq at Unforgiven before continuing his ascent up the card to the world title. Rock beats Faarooq then moves into a heel Nation vs. face DX program. Costs HHH the European title to D'Lo, but HHH just picks up the IC title as a make good. Then SummerSlam is just HHH defending instead of challenging in the ladder match.

Honestly though... does the choke artist finally winning the big one ever mean anything? Like is all the shenanigans worth it? They always seem less over by time they do it and the person that screwed them greatly benefits. The reward just doesn't seem to justify the torture.

Is Daniel Bryan the ONLY time it ever worked?

Also, Tori borrowing Giant González's ring gear was an interesting wardrobe choice.

Dec 21, 2020 22:15:16 GMT 🤯 said:

Dec 21, 2020 21:55:57 GMT @ness said:

Honestly though... does the choke artist finally winning the big one ever mean anything? Like is all the shenanigans worth it? They always seem less over by time they do it and the person that screwed them greatly benefits. The reward just doesn't seem to justify the torture.

Is Daniel Bryan the ONLY time it ever worked?

Also, Tori borrowing Giant González's ring gear was an interesting wardrobe choice.

Tori losing to Sable was the first time I was shocked at a Mania finish.

Like I honestly thought they would always give it to the babyfaces here. Was my first WM :$

Dec 21, 2020 22:17:22 GMT @ness said:

Dec 21, 2020 22:15:16 GMT 🤯 said:

Is Daniel Bryan the ONLY time it ever worked?

Also, Tori borrowing Giant González's ring gear was an interesting wardrobe choice.

Tori losing to Sable was the first time I was shocked at a Mania finish.

Like I honestly thought they would always give it to the babyfaces here. Was my first WM :$

In exchange for making me have to look at Nicole Bass, Sable should've at least wrestled topless. Would've fit her Playboy gimmick at least.

Dec 21, 2020 22:20:24 GMT 🤯 said:

Dec 21, 2020 22:17:22 GMT @ness said:

Tori losing to Sable was the first time I was shocked at a Mania finish.

Like I honestly thought they would always give it to the babyfaces here. Was my first WM :$

In exchange for making me have to look at Nicole Bass, Sable should've at least wrestled topless. Would've fit her Playboy gimmick at least.

At least they ended that year with a bang with Miss Kitty's reveal.

<_< Shame about what they did at the Rumble the next month though.

Why is Test wearing a weight lifting belt as Shane's cornerman?

Dec 21, 2020 22:26:07 GMT 🤯 said:

Why is Test wearing a weight lifting belt as Shane's cornerman?

Never mind... To give it to Shane to use as a weapon. Duh.

Dec 21, 2020 22:26:07 GMT 🤯 said:

Why is Test wearing a weight lifting belt as Shane's cornerman?

I remember really liking their eventual street fight at Summerslam. Wonder if it holds up?

Fuck it, call me a dweeb... I liked his corporate run.

Dec 21, 2020 22:27:39 GMT @ness said:

Dec 21, 2020 22:26:07 GMT 🤯 said:

Why is Test wearing a weight lifting belt as Shane's cornerman?

I remember really liking their eventual street fight at Summerslam. Wonder if it holds up?

It's held up every time I've watched it. Considering how green Test was compared to ring general Waltman, it makes the Love Her Or Leave Her match all that much more impressive to me.

What did we decide a few years back? Did official spelling change from Big Boss Man to Big Bossman when he returned in 1998?

Dec 21, 2020 22:38:38 GMT 🤯 said:

Dec 21, 2020 22:27:39 GMT @ness said:

I remember really liking their eventual street fight at Summerslam. Wonder if it holds up?

It's held up every time I've watched it. Considering how green Test was compared to ring general Waltman, it makes the Love Her Or Leave Her match all that much more impressive to me.

What did we decide a few years back? Did official spelling change from Big Boss Man to Big Bossman when he returned in 1998?

Always loved his theme. Yeah both eras.

According to Wiki

After this match, The Undertaker hanged him from the roof of the cage (an illusion made possible by a body harness concealed under Traylor's outfit).

Ain't no kayfabe in the encyclopedia!

Baker-man, I hemmed and hawed about whether to have 3 or 14 as #1 up to this point. My hair-splitters were the following:

- Bigger crowd, more matches, and Hulk Hogan in his prime made 3 feel more "WrestleMania" than 14.
- While no matches are bad on 14's card, none are remembered or talked about on the same level as Hogan/André or Savage/Steamboat.
- Ventura on commentary FTW.

But I'll definitely not argue against anyone putting 14 above 3 either. Tyson's involvement and Austin's world title win definitely feel as big moment-wise as Hogan slamming André.

Dec 22, 2020 2:46:20 GMT 🤯 said:

Baker -man, I hemmed and hawed about whether to have 3 or 14 as #1 up to this point. My hair-splitters were the following:

- Bigger crowd, more matches, and Hulk Hogan in his prime made 3 feel more "WrestleMania" than 14.
- While no matches are bad on 14's card, none are remembered or talked about on the same level as Hogan/André or Savage/Steamboat.
- Ventura on commentary FTW.

But I'll definitely not argue against anyone putting 14 above 3 either. Tyson's involvement and Austin's world title win definitely feel as big moment-wise as Hogan slamming André.

Nor am I complaining if you or anybody else wants to rate 3 over 14. Both are great shows. And 14 is missing that all time great match. But I think 14 is stronger from top to bottom whereas 3 had a bit of filler. WWF did a great job of hyping 14 and delivering.

I don't think Austin & Tyson was as big as Hogan/Andre. I don't even think it's particularly close. 

3,14, 17 are my top Mania's. This is hardly a controversial take.
============
Can't believe it took me this long to realize Rock & Faarooq could never coexist for long. They were always destined to have a falling out. For Rock went to Miami and Faarooq attended Florida St. Making them natural rivals.

And resuming WrestleMania WatchThru with a question...

Did KOTR1998 do more to help or harm subsequent Hell in a Call matches?

Watching Taker/Bossman, and thinking of Todd(?)'s post in the Problems with WWE thread, pretty sure KOTR1998 hurt a lot of thing a lot more long term than just Foley.

I mean, aside from being a very powerful visual thrown away on a nothing rivalry, I don't think the hanging of Bossman came off as bad as everyone remembers.

Then again, I guess the racial undertones of lynching someone as well as Bossman just returning to RAW like nothing happened really don't work in such a powerful visual's favor.

Continuity error: Vince claimed he had a referee shirt but then comes out wearing a black shirt.

Favorite fan sign at WrestleMania XV:

"Austin lost to Savio Vega in a Caribbean strap match"

Austin in that fucking t-shirt. Why even bother with a top if your vest is MIA? Toughest SOB looks like a toddler who refuses to put his pants on.

Dec 22, 2020 13:13:38 GMT 🤯 said:

Favorite fan sign at WrestleMania XV:

"Austin lost to Savio Vega in a Caribbean strap match"

New favorite:

"I have to poop"

I think Austin/Rock I could've been a Top 10 WrestleMania match had it not had all the overbooked gaga consequential to being smack dab at the peak of the Attitude Era.

Updating!

Dec 21, 2020 18:44:43 GMT 🤯 said:

Updating!

Dec 19, 2020 20:34:31 GMT 🤯 said:

Updating!

1. WrestleMania 3
2. WrestleMania 13
3. WrestleMania 8
4. WrestleMania 7
5. WrestleMania 6
6. WrestleMania 5
7. WrestleMania 10
8. WrestleMania 4
9. WrestleMania 1
10. WrestleMania 12
11. WrestleMania 2
12. WrestleMania 9
13. WrestleMania 11

WM13 and Taker/Sid specifically are HIGHLY underrated and under-appreciated

1. WrestleMania 3
2. WrestleMania 14
3. WrestleMania 13
4. WrestleMania 8
5. WrestleMania 7
6. WrestleMania 6
7. WrestleMania 5
8. WrestleMania 10
9. WrestleMania 4
10. WrestleMania 1
11. WrestleMania 12
12. WrestleMania 2
13. WrestleMania 9
14. WrestleMania 11

WM14 took the rough draft of WM13 and perfected the beats to give WM3 a real run for the money for best Mania up to this point.

1. WrestleMania 3
2. WrestleMania 14
3. WrestleMania 13
4. WrestleMania 8
5. WrestleMania 7
6. WrestleMania 6
7. WrestleMania 5
8. WrestleMania 10
9. WrestleMania 15
10. WrestleMania 4
11. WrestleMania 1
12. WrestleMania 12
13. WrestleMania 2
14. WrestleMania 9
15. WrestleMania 11

Hard to properly rank WM15. It really benefits from how hot the Attitude Era fans are. No great matches, but also no stinkers. Biggest strike against is how overbooked the main event referee schtick was. Room to rebook IMO, but also not too far off from being really good as it was with just some minor tweaks too thanks to how white hot the product was at the time.

First interesting note regarding WM16 is on WWE Network they kept the misprint marketing material with Jericho featured as the fourth man in the main event.

Also, first Mania to open with the national anthem instead of America the Beautiful.

EDIT: Pretty sure Wife would've loved Lilian's dress.

WM16 managing the impressive feat of worst opening match yet.

Only positive is Bull Buchanan, who is physically impressive. It's a shame I know what becomes of him.

Poor Tazz. I get that Vince, HHH, and Austin were never gonna let him be anything like what he was in ECW, at least not at a main event level, but Tazz should've at least been murdering his way through the Hardcore Division with suplexes and chokeholds in 2000.

The Hardcore Battle Royal, as much of a senseless clusterfuck as it is, would've been a better opener.

And Pete Gas bleeding like an Eddie Guerrero or Vince McMahon. Holy shit!

Dec 22, 2020 14:24:19 GMT 🤯 said:

The Hardcore Battle Royal, as much of a senseless clusterfuck as it is, would've been a better opener.

And Pete Gas bleeding like an Eddie Guerrero or Vince McMahon. Holy shit!

Watching the finish though, including the botch, the fans definitely wanted the Tazz victory.

Wasting a LOT of time on this Axxess recap...

EDIT: But strangely it gives us a sneak peak preview of American Bad Ass Undertaker! And a portly Stone Cold.

From one Pittsburgher to another:

Wrestlemania 3 can kiss my ass.

We all know when you re-book you sit there and imagine everything like it was a Wrestlemania XIV card. It was the most versatile, well thought out, easily digestable card in Wrestlemania history and doesn't have that Limp Bizkit stench on it like that other Mania. Sure, Wrestlemania III was an amazing visual and it's an easy watch, but how many times have you actually sat there and thought 'hmmm, how could this be MORE like Wrestlemania III?'

Wrestlemania XV is a difficult show to pin down. You had not one but two sets of matches that linked together in HHH/Kane --> Shane/Pac and then Mankind/White ---> Rock/Austin. On top of that you have the fall-out of Brawl For All that came out of nowhere and it really didn't go the way the WWF expected it to go. Undertaker/Bossman was a disaster where a bunch of pre-planned spots were botched and they had to awkwardly shuffle to the next section. I think the only reference they made to Bossman/Taker was this awesome Bossman squash on Sunday Night Heat where he tore out one of Droz' piercings. I think this led to the debut of Prince Albert, that or the Val Venis feud where they tried to give him a prince albert.

Wait, did they think that A-Train looked like a penis?

Draw a line down the middle of his head, tell me what you think. -_-

X-Pac/Shane and Austin/Rock were the only matches that really delivered. The rest either disappointed or had no reason to exist. Two title matches were completely rendered meaningless because they decided to switch Road Dogg/Billy Gunn at the last minute just to be different.

What really hurts it is that Backlash was a better show in every way. It was the first time the WWF ran a WWF Championship rematch on the following PPV and it has one of the all-time great PPV endings.

Imagine getting an uber with Taker as your driver?

I'm undecided on the XV and XVI debate. I feel XVI has the better highs, but also more lows and the main event falls really flat. Curious to see what you make of it.