Spin-a-rooni was more over with Toronto than Edge.

LOVE Mighty Molly pinning the HurriPerv to win the hardcore title.

Dec 29, 2020 21:39:37 GMT 🤯 said:

LOVE Mighty Molly pinning the HurriPerv to win the hardcore title.

All you need.

Rescue me Molly I needs HALP!!!

Dec 29, 2020 18:01:52 GMT 🤯 said:

Christian feuding with DDP because DDP helped Christian defeat Billy Gunn on RAW one week ago might be a worse reason for A WrestleMania match than shampoo commercial jealousy.

Agreed. If anything Christian should have been thanking DDP for giving him an out against Billy Gunn. Imagine thinking Christian could beat the man who's got it all. smh. 

Dec 29, 2020 20:49:46 GMT 🤯 said:

I wonder if Taker requested to wrestle Flair at WrestleMania?

Wonder what the plan for Taker might've been pre-Flair.

Dec 29, 2020 21:21:31 GMT 🤯 said:

Wonder if all the Booger Red stuff on commentary is because JR was still pissed about Taker forcing him to kiss Vince's ass?

I just learned the answer to both questions within the past few months.

Taker was given the option of wrestling Flair or RVD at Wrestlemania 18. He obviously chose Flair. 

@ness is right about Booger Red. It was originally the nickname for former University of Texas and Atlanta Falcons star linebacker Tommy Nobis. Once upon a time "booger" had a second meaning in the South- "frightening apparition." At least JR has the decency to admit the nickname flopped. My friends and I found it hilarious. In hindsight I'm a little surprised it didn't kill Taker's aura. For months the man was basically referred to as bloody snot which had hardened. Dumbest. Nickname. Ever.

Dec 29, 2020 16:53:53 GMT 🤯 said:

Aside from the Debra misstep, the buildup to this match might be the GOAT. So pumped!

It was actually a pretty mediocre build in totality. But that one great sit-down interview and the incredible WWF video production team making an all-time great promo package completely covers it. Plus they had so much history with each other already.

It's all about MY WAY.

Just watched a random My Way youtube clip. And the top comments (it's not a WWE video) are about WM17. Nice.

Dec 30, 2020 0:28:52 GMT Strobe said:

Dec 29, 2020 16:53:53 GMT 🤯 said:

Aside from the Debra misstep, the buildup to this match might be the GOAT. So pumped!

It was actually a pretty mediocre build in totality. But that one great sit-down interview and the incredible WWF video production team making an all-time great promo package completely covers it. Plus they had so much history with each other already.

I feel like it just speaks even more to their star power that it was as huge as it was with so little, and so much that was arguably mismanaged en route there.

Can you imagine a build where Rock has held the title in Austin's absence since Backlash 2000, where Rock won the title thanks in large part to Austin's assistance? As it stood, I recall in real time thinking how shoehorned things felt with Kurt's reign coming to an abrupt end just so that they could run Rock/Austin II. Rock's month-long reign felt as unimportant as most of this other reigns. Rock, for as huge as he was, really needed that one standout long reign.

/////

To Baker-man's tidbit on Taker's choice of WM18 opponents, RVD is interesting... Wonder if they would've still been tangling for the Hardcore belt by that point? I recall being very pleasantly surprised by their Vengeance 2001 and RAW 2002 matches. Wonder if they could've worked something more entertaining than Taker/Flair? Taker/Flair did set a high bar.

WM18 is the WrestleMania begging most for a total rebook since WM11. Probably even more so considering the names involved and how misused they were. At least with WM11 there's no real way you're turning it into a business-saving card.

The concert performances were the worst part of X-8. Some people feel embarrassed by the Mae Young hand thing but for me it's the performances from Saliva and Drowning Pool that just elongate the show. Otherwise I thought the show did a pretty good job of showcasing Flair/Taker and Hogan/Rock (one of the all-time great matches). Even Hall/Austin I thought was a smart match given the limitations (no way jose Austin is going up for a Razor's Edge) so Austin was just spamming Stunners and Hall was doing his big over the top sells.

It's one of those shows where you just have to ignore a lot of nonsense and see it as this swansong for the Monday Night Wars. The entire production would change a year later and this really felt like the end of that era with all the graphics and the general pacing of the show.

Otherwise it's the after-birth of the botched Invasion era. Not completely terrible but just a reflection of how chaotic the company was at the time.

My dad started ordering us every ppv started with Survivor Series 98 (had been begging since Summerslam) and the last one he did order was 18.

I feel it's a real normies jumping off point in that way. Even I barely followed 2002 until Brock got the belt.

Dec 30, 2020 15:59:36 GMT @ness said:

My dad started ordering us every ppv started with Survivor Series 98 (had been begging since Summerslam) and the last one he did order was 18.

I feel it's a real normies jumping off point in that way. Even I barely followed 2002 until Brock got the belt.

I recall thinking in real time around the nWo announcement that the WWF was terminally ill and probably dead in a few years at most, so your assessment makes sense. Big Pete coins another awesomeism with perfectly describing WM18 as the "after-birth of the botched Invasion era".

I have fond memories of wm19. Downloaded individual matches off limewire constantly.

I don't know how this is possible, but I totally forgot about the WHAT!? chants.

Don't miss those.

Dec 30, 2020 2:32:21 GMT Big Pete said:

Even Hall/Austin I thought was a smart match given the limitations (no way jose Austin is going up for a Razor's Edge) so Austin was just spamming Stunners and Hall was doing his big over the top sells.

Just finishing this now. It's a weird shame, as it's not at all a bad match... And once upon a time Razor Ramon should've had all the star power in the world. But it's inescapable feeling like a misuse of Austin at a WrestleMania. Even had it officially been a handicap match with Austin besting both Hall & Nash, it still would've felt like a misuse of Austin.

Another terrible Saliva performance for the heel Dudleyz... Which makes no sense. Why a live rock performance and hot valet in Stacy Keibler for heel Dudleyz? Seems like gaga you'd add to a face act.

Anyway, this tag title four-way has me realizing TLC I & II and the triangle ladder match did as much damage to WrestleMania tag title matches as the first HIACs through No Way Out did to subsequent HIACs.

The elimination four-way at WM13 was better. They've learned nothing in half a decade.

For both being such big matches, which had the worse/better build: Rock/Austin II or Rock/Hogan?

Now that I think of it... Didn't Hogan/Warrior have relatively little build considering how big it was?

Good God the fan reactions to Rock/Hogan.

This clash of the titans was unreal.

Hogan looks so much better on the roids.

1980s Hulk > 1990-1992 Hulk > 2002 Hulk >>> 1993 Hulk

Good God, the reactions to this match.

#1 with a bullet.

Even 18 years later... Goosebumps.

Fuck nWo, it's Hogan 4lyfe.

Do you think Big Show got one of those coveted WrestleMania paydays for being at WWF New York?

Poor Jazz, having to follow Rock/Hogan. At least she retains.

Austin was afraid he'd get booed, which is hilarious since the whole previous year he never could be.

These girls were stuck in such a bad spot on the card.

It's so interesting watching Trish evolve across Manias.

Dec 30, 2020 2:32:21 GMT Big Pete said:

The concert performances were the worst part of X-8. Some people feel embarrassed by the Mae Young hand thing but for me it's the performances from Saliva and Drowning Pool that just elongate the show.

Spot on assessment of the biggest flaws as Saliva or Drowning Pool plays HHH to the ring for the main event.

I don't like this hating on early 2000s numetal.

Jericho is absolutely a jobber who doesn't belong in the main event here.

Dec 30, 2020 15:59:36 GMT @ness said:

I feel it's a real normies jumping off point in that way. Even I barely followed 2002 until Brock got the belt.

It was 2003 for my clique of casual fan friends. No Mercy in Baltimore was the last hurrah and I knew this even at the time.

Dec 30, 2020 19:46:10 GMT 🤯 said:

The elimination four-way at WM13 was better. They've learned nothing in half a decade.

Whoa. Let's not get crazy here. That WM 13 four way was a total trainwreck. And at least Billy & Chuck retained at 18. That alone is enough for it to top 13 in my book.

Dec 30, 2020 19:59:31 GMT 🤯 said:

Now that I think of it... Didn't Hogan/Warrior have relatively little build considering how big it was?

Probably. But they had the epic Rumble showdown. That's really all they needed.
==============
You have me tempted to rewatch Hogan/Rock now. Don't think I've seen it since it aired. Hated it in real time because my dumb Hulk Hogan hating self was APPALLED that the WWF Universe would dare cheer that 50 year old turncoat. Like did the last 6 years mean nothing to you people? 

I can't wait until we get to "the WWE's favourite band... in the whole world... Limp Bizkit" at Mania XIX.

I was never a fan of Limp Bizkit around 2000 unlike seemingly everyone, including all my pals. For personal enjoyment, if I could punch anyone in history, Fred Durst is up there. But they were seen as cool around 2000. It is amazing how much that had changed by only 2003.

I still find it amazing that people talk about Taker's recent kayfabe breaking stuff finally breaking his aura when his 00-03 run exists. He did OTR and he had a kayfabe-shattering DVD talking about being in WCW, being pitched the Taker gimmick, showing him at home with his wife. Even if you were just watching WWF/E TV, he was hugging Fred Durst while looking like this.

Dec 30, 2020 19:59:31 GMT 🤯 said:

For both being such big matches, which had the worse/better build: Rock/Austin II or Rock/Hogan?

Now that I think of it... Didn't Hogan/Warrior have relatively little build considering how big it was?

Yeah, Rock/Hogan was worse than Rock/Austin because at least that sit-down interview was excellent. Hogan's attempted murder on the Rock with the truck into the ambulance was yet another example of wrestling having gone far too far, making it into a bit of a joke really.

Hogan/Warrior was from a different time where the top names seldom interacted. Hard to compare to 10 years later. You had their Rumble interaction to lay the groundwork. Then they teamed up to beat Perfect/Genius on SNME, but in a post-match fracas Warrior accidentally clotheslined Hogan and they had a shoving match and went nose to nose. Hogan then made the Ultimate Challenge to see if he was still the man. Hogan came out to save Warrior from a Quake attack at The Main Event and they went nose to nose again. Then Warrior saved Hogan from a Quake attack on Superstars and went to clothesline him from behind, but stopped himself and left. Then they did the contract signing on the Ultimate Challenge special* of Wrestling Challenge. In terms of teasing and building a mega-match between two faces, I think it was reasonably well done.

*This special also features the Quake/Garvin match we should've had at Mania VI.

Dec 30, 2020 22:12:29 GMT 🤯 said:

Jericho is absolutely a jobber who doesn't belong in the main event here.

Triple H vs. Stephanie McMahon with Chris Jericho in the main event of WrestleMania.

The man who beat Austin and Rock in one night to become the first Undisputed Champion, then beat Rock again at the Rumble to retain and had kayfabe injured Triple H, putting him out for 8 months and leading to his whole epic comeback. Let's have him be Steph's bitch and walk her little dog.

Dec 31, 2020 1:15:15 GMT Baker said:

Whoa. Let's not get crazy here. That WM 13 four way was a total trainwreck. And at least Billy & Chuck retained at 18. That alone is enough for it to top 13 in my book.

Is 🤯 such a tiddy man that this wasn't enough to make the X8 tag better?

SPOILER: Click to show

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